Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-October-22-2012

I gave up on my Thief.High mobility with next to nothing of defence,in the game where NPC’s are respawning every 5 sec.Now damage is OP)) What a joke.

Haven’t read the patch notes in detail but it seems like Thieves should be compensated with some kind of buff to non-burst direct damage…that, or some kind of fix to bleed-overwriting…just thinking PvE here

Hopefully the chronic QQers will move on to a different class now instead of yet another thief spec. How about Warrior? They got some decent buffs this time around.

Where does it say that? o.O

castillle.5248:

Where does it say that? o.O

It’s in the patch notes that appeared at the top of your forum when you came on, as well as supplied in the opening post…

Nvm I mustve missed it the first time I read through. Oh so sleepy x.x And its hardly a nerf its more like a buff tbh o.O

It’s hardly anything when you think about it. I can be used with Pistol whip, it can be used with Cluster bombs (10K cluster bombs?), it can be used with unload.

Really all it did to glass cannons is make the build that much more accessible skill cap wise. Now you just pre-cast the signet and get +15% on your Mug, C&D and Backstab along with 2 heartseeker (or whatever based on enemy health) followups… realllllllllly it’s hardly a nerf more of a buff.

LOL you people just cry it is a nerf without even thinking about it. If anything it’s a neutral update or a tiny buff.

read people. READ THE NOTES.

Previous: +50% for 1 Strike

New: +15% for 5 Strikes

You can now use Assassin Signet before the Cloak and Dagger, Steal and Backstab combo to gain +15% damage on every attack. Not only does this make the Backstab combo easier to perform but overall it reduces the damage by just about 6%. A slight nerf, yes, but now your next two attacks do +15% each in case your target survived the initial burst.
Overall this change may have made Backstab Thieves even better. On top of that Assassin Signet synergies now better with skills other than Backstab.

Lol @ people who call this a nerf.

Im glad they did this to the signet. This is a fairly good fix to the ‘problem’ people complained about. The change means that there wont be anymore “18k” backstab crits that one shot people. Instead itll take you more than one hit to kill someone. Youll have to combo, which means longer time to kill someone which means that theyll have time to pop CDs or get away or whatever and survive.

In a nutshell, by splitting it instead of 1 massive attack to many strong attacks, it gives about the same damage, just takes longer to do it allowing the enemy to react.

of course maybe Im just bein short sighted. I never used assassins signet. So that change doesnt bother me in the slightest.

metaphorm.6904:

read people. READ THE NOTES.

Previous: +50% for 1 Strike

New: +15% for 5 Strikes

I wasn’t aware I could back stab 5 times consecutively.

Well there goes my build to the kitten. really kitten off about this update. Might as well call it Mighty Signet since that;s all it’s good for, 5 stacks of kittening might.

I heard alot of people crying about it in PVP apparently, couldnt they just keep it in PVE?

Iron Wolf.5973:

In a nutshell, by splitting it instead of 1 massive attack to many strong attacks, it gives about the same damage, just takes longer to do it allowing the enemy to react.

of course maybe Im just bein short sighted. I never used assassins signet. So that change doesnt bother me in the slightest.

Doesn’t feel like “assassin’s” signet anymore. Assassin’s don’t wail on their enemies like warriors, one big hit then finish ’em off with a few strikes. But now it takes me longer to take down some tough mobs.

Well, if we really one to go by the concept of assassination, they should have just changed assassins signet to stealth you and causing yoru next attack to deal 100% of the enemy HP before armor/reductions. Oh and lets also not forget if you do it from behind, it cnat be blocked evaded or interrupted.

That sounds like assassination to me, but you know, people might think its a bit unfair.

Iron Wolf.5973:

Well, if we really one to go by the concept of assassination, they should have just changed assassins signet to stealth you and causing yoru next attack to deal 100% of the enemy HP before armor/reductions. Oh and lets also not forget if you do it from behind, it cnat be blocked evaded or interrupted.

That sounds like assassination to me, but you know, people might think its a bit unfair.

It sounds like exaggeration to me. Good try though.

Im glad you caught on to that. I was going to be worried all night long that it woudl go over your head.

Way I see it, this change was a side step at worst. The damage is spaced out now, instead of consolidated. It means that no, you wont insta kill someone, but still has quite high power output anyways. Whether this fits your view on assassination or not, this is a game, and there has to be limitations at some point. I dont think anyone would be crying over the backstab issue IF every class had some build that did the exact same thing. But since that isnt the case, the combination of things made it to favorable and to easy for thieves. This change was long coming and necessary. If that ruins your play style, then sorry. I guess youll either have to roll something else, or try another play style.

dizzyd.5213:

Haven’t read the patch notes in detail but it seems like Thieves should be compensated with some kind of buff to non-burst direct damage…that, or some kind of fix to bleed-overwriting…just thinking PvE here

So let me get this straight, you dont consider 50% damageo n your next attack being turned into 15% damage buff for your next 5 attacks being exactly what you asked for? Its pretty much a cd that buffs your next 5 attacks by 15%, thats about as good as thieves should get.

Iron Wolf.5973:

Im glad they did this to the signet. This is a fairly good fix to the ‘problem’ people complained about. The change means that there wont be anymore “18k” backstab crits that one shot people. Instead itll take you more than one hit to kill someone. Youll have to combo, which means longer time to kill someone which means that theyll have time to pop CDs or get away or whatever and survive.

In a nutshell, by splitting it instead of 1 massive attack to many strong attacks, it gives about the same damage, just takes longer to do it allowing the enemy to react.

of course maybe Im just bein short sighted. I never used assassins signet. So that change doesnt bother me in the slightest.

Backstab builds were already combos. Everything went into one major hit, but you had to set up combos with other skills to get extreme damage.

I’m happy with the change, though. It’s a PvE buff without a doubt, so I’ll take it.

Iron Wolf.5973:

Im glad you caught on to that. I was going to be worried all night long that it woudl go over your head.

Way I see it, this change was a side step at worst. The damage is spaced out now, instead of consolidated. It means that no, you wont insta kill someone, but still has quite high power output anyways. Whether this fits your view on assassination or not, this is a game, and there has to be limitations at some point. I dont think anyone would be crying over the backstab issue IF every class had some build that did the exact same thing. But since that isnt the case, the combination of things made it to favorable and to easy for thieves. This change was long coming and necessary. If that ruins your play style, then sorry. I guess youll either have to roll something else, or try another play style.

I wasn’t being a smartass. That was a horrible example. Stop assuming I’m kitten or you can go kitten yourself.

I am complaining about the name and why couldn’t they just keep it that way for PVE? So much for trying to keep skills good for PVE and PVP. I’m just kitten that they took a kitten on a build I started to like now I have to change it, maybe go back to pistol/dagger since surprise shot does around 5 hits. Or just do longer combos that will leave me dry of initiative when fighting more than one mob….might as well just spam 1 like a kitten everywhere.

Well think of it this way, for the smarter thieves out there who ran backstab, its not the only skill you use, you can pop sig of the assassin when you wanna heartseek spam, or dancing dagger spam, its a 15% buff for any other skill other than backstab, this is overall a good change.

He’s a 1 trick pony thief. Complains about beeing forced to spam “1” all the time while his ENTIRE game revolves around pressing “1” once.

Indeed, I like the change, who cares if one cry baby doesnt. Now if anet can get its kitten in gear and work on ranger Id be happy.

Its actually a good tweak rather then a nerf , you have better control with it , anyway qqers should have stopped bringing thief up in arguments after the second pistol whip nerf. So no crocodile tears sorry guys.

Was it not 150%?

Link to wiki – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin's_Signet

Why is everyone saying 50%

Increase by 50% = 150% hit damage

@desert rose “lol at ppl think this is a nerf”

you are kidding right ?

my build on the test golems.. (build focusses on bs)

OLD=mug 2k, c+d 1.8k BS 15k = 18.8k
NEW=mug 2.3k, 2.07k, bs 11.5k = 15.87k

approx 18 to 19% NERF

dont care what anyone says.. these are the numbers for my build, and its most def a nerf

bomber.1540:

@desert rose “lol at ppl think this is a nerf”

you are kidding right ?

my build on the test golems.. (build focusses on bs)

OLD=mug 2k, c+d 1.8k BS 15k = 18.8k
NEW=mug 2.3k, 2.07k, bs 11.5k = 15.87k

approx 18 to 19% NERF

dont care what anyone says.. these are the numbers for my build, and its most def a nerf

and then you have 2 attacks with a +15% dmg. maybe 2 hs or a c&d + bs again…

Because 18k dmg should be possible… right. Thats INSTA death for all squishies regardless of their build. I know, rolled thief after i got fed up getting my bunker ele 1 shoted from full hp.

I am thinking: Mug, C&D, Signet, BS, C&D, BS, C&D, BS. For 3 lots of buffed BS.

I play a thief and this is a welcome change! Assassin Signet now gives more damage! Better than one super powerful attack that was being abused with backstab and destroying people before they can react.

Bust Nak.6150:

I am thinking: Mug, C&D, Signet, BS, C&D, BS, C&D, BS. For 3 lots of buffed BS.

What about the revealed debuff ?

This whole concept makes BS miss less “fatal” than before, since you have more buffed attacks. Before patch, if you missed backstab and you would be pretty much in a disadvantage.

Bust Nak.6150:

I am thinking: Mug, C&D, Signet, BS, C&D, BS, C&D, BS. For 3 lots of buffed BS.

You get a 3s revealed debuff after BS.

Anyway, good change. Overall dmg stays pretty much the same (I guess) but you get the chance to dodge the follow up skill of BS which is supposed to kill you. Sin’s Signet is now more viable for other builds/skills/weapon setups. Definitely not a nerf.

Since people dont know how to do math ill just leave this here…

15 × 5 = 75(%)

50 × 1 = 50(%)

only serves to stop the insane 25k+ backstab nukes. This is actually an overall damage buff for all other builds (aside from condition stuff i guess?) that fixed the backstab issue

Maybe it nerfs backstab synergy a lot, which was needed, but it allows a buff to a LOT of other builds.

Those math actually apply on strong hits.

Really, a buff? You must be joking.
Nothing, ever, guarantees that you will land each of those 5 attacks. While with a single burst you had to worry just about one.
Now they should at least decrease Assassin’s Signet cooldown, or initiative cost on weapon skills to make up for it.

This update made Thieves easier to kill and harder to get killed by them.

It’s funny how people assume they’ll have enough initiative or time left to pull off all five attacks, with only 10-12k hp and a decloaked debuff.

It’s most definitely a fraggin nerf for a class that is only good at two things: damage and running away.

Oh this is the third topic I read about this so called nerf and it is so funny

The backstab build is BAD. It is not fun, it is stupid, it requires zero skill to do it. This build was good due to the 150% buff on an attack from the signed. The problem is not the 15k+ crit dmg but the fact that ALL baddies are doing it. So what Anet did is smart – learn to play better. Now I can start using the signet – 5 attacks +15% dmg is huge and I will not have run the kitten backstab build. Don`t get me wrong, I love stealth and sneaky kills, but the backstab glasscannon build was broken due to the large dmg otuput with zero skill required.
@Rump Buffalo your math is so wrong… I wont even comment it. Just something to think:
1×1000 + 50% buff
5×100 + 15% buff

Glad to see all the positive posts in thief forum, sadly most of those tears of joy came from non-thieves or people who claim to play a thief.

A nerf is a nerf is a nerf, no matter how you spin it, in reality you can really only land 3 attacks of the 5 +15% hits, unless its a pve monster who keeps running at you or a pvp potato who just stands still, in which case they will come back for more QQ trolling fun just like before.

I don’t and never played a BS thief, at least this nerf saves me the time in the future to test and gear a back stab thief, which is good news to me

@Zplus
No offense, but don`t tell me how much attacks I can land. If you can land 3, too bad for you.

@Cal
No offence neither, but don’t tell me your attacks still hits the enemy while they con remove and dodge away, the last time I checked dodging still evades attacks, maybe you use know something we don’t know.

Meanwhile, have fun killing noobs in low population servers.

@dervim
Its called dodging.. something the target of that bs cant pull of with you pumping those numbers.. He just dies in 1s. Go play ele, its great for practicing survivability.

@zplus
You are not a bs thief yet you whine how ONE attack was “nerfed” and other 4 buffed?

@Zplus
What has the server to do with the topic?!?

How many attacks will be landed depdens of the enemy and you. There is no unversal formula, in some cases you will land 0 and in some 5. Stating something like you can land only 3 attacks is stupid.

This is great – I might actually considering using it for non-BS builds now. Dancing Dagger would be insane with those 5 boosted hits.

Consider it this way – if you get instagibbed by backstab now, you have no excuse.

Dervim.3817:

It’s funny how people assume they’ll have enough initiative or time left to pull off all five attacks, with only 10-12k hp and a decloaked debuff.

It’s most definitely a fraggin nerf for a class that is only good at two things: damage and running away.

If you’re only good at doing damage and running away, you’re doing it wrong. My Thief is almost universal. I can keep groups busy for reinforcements to arrive, I can provide support to allies through stealth and other buffs and much more.

Shintai.5618:

I just wonder how the insanely OPed mesmer got away with no nerfs again.

No one’s complaining in their forum, that’s why.

Since in WvW I mostly downed people in 2 hits with the last one usually being a huge overkill in a 20 30 20 0 0 spec with the assassins signet 50% buff I think it will still work to kill a target with a bs combo… just not any longer with basilisk + c&d + mug + bs.
My guess is, those who died to 30 30 0 0 10 specs will do so still… as they died to 20 30 20 0 0 in the same time. The BS damage with assassins signet was just a huge overkill in most cases anyways – so I guess against a lot of target you will not notice any significant difference… btw. I think that 20 30 20 spec saved my life on more occasions than the 30 30 0 0 10 killed the enemy that wouldn’t have died otherwise anyways. The times I got away with less than 1000 life were rather numerous.

Yeah, I’m calling this a good fix. Personally I feel it is a buff.

15% extra on Mug, C&D, BS, HS, HS combo. I’m pretty sure you’ll break even at the very least. And as a side perk, it now works well in several other specs besides burst backstab!

Win, imo.

I used to only activate it on a BS combo, but now I tend to activate it even when I don’t/can’t bs the enemy. Buff in my opinion too.

Has anyone tested the numbers on a golem in mists? im at work and will have to wait 6 more hours before i can do it…