Assassin's Equilibrium- I'll be using it

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

First off, I understand that this is a completely stealth related trait in the acrobatics tree. I’m not here to argue the logic of the trait’s placement, but only the trait itself, and why I’ll probably be using it in World verses World.

So Anet is buffing this trait from 1s, to 1.5s, but with the 30% boon duration ncrease from traiting in acrobatics, it’s effectively a 3/4 second buff. (1.25s to 2s).

When running P/D condition I was already speccing 3-4 in acro, but wih this change I’ll be speccing in 6 acro for this trait. The most obvious thing it help with is stomping. You can CND a target an close to guarantee the stomp.

Most people complain that since the stability kicks in after you stealth its impossible to time it with cc from oppoennt, which is true. But for me, as P/d, my combo is generall: CnD > steal > sneak attack > then #3 skill into kiting. I like to stay in the opponents face after sneak attack so I can land the #3 for 2 stacks of torment. However, while unloading my sneak attack ALWAYS seems to be when I get CC’d by decent players. This trait will allow me to get my fell sneak attack off and torment off in their face much more safely. Also- if you’re stealthing every 6 seconds its like 1/3 stability uptime. So it’s great for downing people, great for lading sneak attack at close range so you can #3 and dodge into them with uncatchable after without getting cc locked, and I’m sure itll randomly end up saving my kitten throughout the fight. It will also be nice not blowing shadowstep or BP to stomp.

So it might not be as godly as executioner, or slight of hand, or bewildering ambush but like the other newer trait: Resilience of Shadows, you guys are underrating it IMO. (Both of which i think are on par with fan favorite Shadow’s rejuvination)

EDIT: I misunderstood the trait, which reads “When striking an enemy out of stealth”. This means the ability WILL NOT proc in the CnD stomping scenario. I still think it will be useful during battle, however I’m not as high on it was when I made this topic. Still may be viable though

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)

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Posted by: oxtred.7658

oxtred.7658

If you’re running P/d condi you can trait whatever you want, though. It’s already faceroll enough.

If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

If you’re running P/d condi you can trait whatever you want, though. It’s already faceroll enough.

Nothing more faceroll in 1v1s than a d/p power thief though. Also, mainly due to the efficient dire stats, most condi builds will “faceroll” any non thief/mesmer power build 1v1

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)

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Posted by: T raw.4658

T raw.4658

Did I just read someone claim D/P is more faceroll than P/D?!?!!!??

ROFLMAO

Someone is trying to feel better about themselves

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

Did I just read someone claim D/P is more faceroll than P/D?!?!!!??

ROFLMAO

Someone is trying to feel better about themselves

It’s easier to 1v1 somebody with d/p power spec. It is easier to 1v2 with pd condi spec. I play both. Are you arguing that d/p isn’t very powerful? It’s meta for a reason.

Sure the skill cap is high to outplay multiple people, but for 1v1s it’s ez-mode. Perma-blind + instant stealth without needing to be near your target, and 3 teleports. Come on.

If you play d/p and lose 1v1s to p/d more often than you win them…. thats an l2p issue. I can understand hate from the warriors, guards, etc. that can’t touch me, but if you play dd/p or even d/d you shouldn’t have a problem with p/x thieves

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

They’re both pretty facerolly.

It’s just you’re going to find even more P/D users after the patch because nothing was done to it and D/P’s powder nerf is going to make a lot of people move by taking away a solid amount of the faceroll.

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Posted by: oxtred.7658

oxtred.7658

No. D/P is great in small groups and can work in 1v1, but condi P/D are just unkillables in the hands of a good player. a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness. Thing is, those two specs have opposite roles. Condi is a troll spec for either inexperienced players or people wanting to 1vX easily. It is built for attrition and huge survivability, and you can make a lot of mistakes. D/P is not about attrition at all. It’s a single target squishy dps with lot of pressure coming from blind spam and interrupt. But if you ever take a backstab or an evisc, you’re on the floor. D/P is powerful, but its advantages aren’t selfish, thus it’s harder to survive on your own.

If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

No. D/P is great in small groups and can work in 1v1, but condi P/D are just unkillables in the hands of a good player. a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness. Thing is, those two specs have opposite roles. Condi is a troll spec for either inexperienced players or people wanting to 1vX easily. It is built for attrition and huge survivability, and you can make a lot of mistakes. D/P is not about attrition at all. It’s a single target squishy dps with lot of pressure coming from blind spam and interrupt. But if you ever take a backstab or an evisc, you’re on the floor. D/P is powerful, but its advantages aren’t selfish, thus it’s harder to survive on your own.

but in 1v1 d/p is the god spec of guild wars. If you deny that you aren’t playing d/p properly. It’s a very high skill cap if you’re going into groups and actually being productive and putting yourself in danger. If you’re just 1v1ing people its easy as hell

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

They’re both pretty facerolly.

It’s just you’re going to find even more P/D users after the patch because nothing was done to it and D/P’s powder nerf is going to make a lot of people move by taking away a solid amount of the faceroll.

Actually, pistol is getting +150 range on ricochet trait

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Posted by: oxtred.7658

oxtred.7658

d/p isn’t that great in 1v1 for an average player. You need to time your skills carefully, and play cautious, wich isn’t the case for condis. d/p still get destroyed by some specs ( med guards, engineers), and has weakness. Condi doesn’t. d/p requires a good knowledge of the game mechanics (boon stealing, interrupt). Condi doesn’t. Recovering from a mistake as a d/p thief is insanely hard provided you’re not traiting in sa. So yes, D/P isn’t the best 1v1 set. Except if you’re fighting those warriors spamming aa in a blinding power and then asking for a nerf.

If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

d/p isn’t that great in 1v1 for an average player. You need to time your skills carefully, and play cautious, wich isn’t the case for condis. d/p still get destroyed by some specs ( med guards, engineers), and has weakness. Condi doesn’t. d/p requires a good knowledge of the game mechanics (boon stealing, interrupt). Condi doesn’t. Recovering from a mistake as a d/p thief is insanely hard provided you’re not traiting in sa. So yes, D/P isn’t the best 1v1 set. Except if you’re fighting those warriors spamming aa in a blinding power and then asking for a nerf.

Even without bp you can almost shut a warrior down with just #3. Also, knowledge of game mechanics for boon strip? Explain this. Are you referring to bountiful theft? That’s not a d/p exclusive and i also often run that on p/d as well as s/d. As far as interrupt- I agree there. Properly using #4 really ups the skill cap on this set. Definitely think d/p has higher overall skill cap, but can still eyes closed most 1v1s.

As far as med guards- wort matchup for any power thief and guard has huge advantage. Every build has at least 1 bad matchup though and I’d argue d/p has the best matchups.

I’m not saying p/d is harder than d/p or that p/d is ifficult in any way, but for 1v1s (or 1v2s vs unskilled) don’t act like it’s anything beyond BP+heartseeker 1500 units away, steal+backstab, rinse+repeat with infil signet/shadowstep. In these situations you don’t even need to use your interrupt, which is one of the main things giving this kit its skillcap.

Anyway back on topic- what do you think of assasssin’s equilibrium?

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Posted by: oxtred.7658

oxtred.7658

yeah, i was referring to bountiful theft. And no, at least for me 1vx aren’t stealth backstab, reset and come back. But anyway yeah, back on topic: I don’t think traiting 6 points for a trait like that is any good. You already have at least one breakstun and plenty of blinds on both d/p and p/d, and since most control skills are also hard hittings they are usually avoided. IMO, if a stomp is so insecured that you need stability even when stealthed, it’s probably a stomp you won’t get at all, so it’s really situational.

If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

yeah, i was referring to bountiful theft. And no, at least for me 1vx aren’t stealth backstab, reset and come back. But anyway yeah, back on topic: I don’t think traiting 6 points for a trait like that is any good. You already have at least one breakstun and plenty of blinds on both d/p and p/d, and since most control skills are also hard hittings they are usually avoided. IMO, if a stomp is so insecured that you need stability even when stealthed, it’s probably a stomp you won’t get at all, so it’s really situational.

Ok, so I just reread the trait and its not great for stomping “When striking an enemy out of stealth” I thought it was just “when leaving stealth” so I would cnd, and the stability would kick in once stealth over, but it looks like I have to attack from stealth.

And yea, I wouldn’t trait 6 points just for assassins equilibrium but I’m already pretty set on at least 3 in acro anyway (I love feline grace and vigorous recovery, using withdraw). After reading the trait its still good for the heat of battle, but wont change stomping much I’ll have to rethink if I’ll be using it. And yea, I already run with 1-2 stun breaks, but I like to use those offensively sometimes

I just prefer 3 in acro for defense because evading is more fun than regening in stealth (and imo more effectivie) because every second I’m waiting in stealth for health I’m delaying my sneak attack and pressure, giving them time to remove conditions. Acro also has great synergy with caltrops on dodge I think SA is overrated for p/d (except blind on stealth trait).

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Yea, to stomp with the trait, you’d have to CnD, backstab, then stomp…which means you’d waste a bunch of time casting CnD and backstab before even starting the stomp.

Thieves already have so many ways to secure a stomp that it’s not really worth a GM trait…especially when it’s often better to just let less squishy teammates stomp in team fights anyways. =P

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

Yea, to stomp with the trait, you’d have to CnD, backstab, then stomp…which means you’d waste a bunch of time casting CnD and backstab before even starting the stomp.

Thieves already have so many ways to secure a stomp that it’s not really worth a GM trait…especially when it’s often better to just let less squishy teammates stomp in team fights anyways. =P

Yea, but I’ll still be considering it for the heat of battle. Look at it this way, as far as defensive options its between this, shows rejuvenation (and maybe shadow’s resilience) for GM traits that could make sense with P/D. If the stability saves you from even 1 CC during the whole fight, I think it could mitigate more damage than rejuvenation will heal your for. For me, especially when outnumbered, CC is way more of a problem for me than general attrition

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

I’ll definitely try it, although to do so on my S/D build would require me to drop the 2 points in SA for condi cleanse, so I might not gain all that much overall. I have a feeling a 2/6/0/6/0 D/P & S/D build could make good use of it though.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

SA d/p should win more and lose less than SA p/d,dire is what completes p/d.

The trait is not bad but I rather spend 6 points in Trickery for condition damage and steal,SA gives me enough sustain. Usable but mostly chosen by preference I prefer toughness since carrion and dire have enough vitality.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

SA d/p should win more and lose less than SA p/d,dire is what completes p/d.

The trait is not bad but I rather spend 6 points in Trickery for condition damage and steal,SA gives me enough sustain. Usable but mostly chosen by preference I prefer toughness since carrion and dire have enough vitality.

Well, 6 in trickery always for me, usually in power builds too, but always for condi. Most impactful traits for any build, but especially great for p/d with condition damage obviously.

so the question is acro vs SA rather than acro vs trickery.

I like toughness better than vitality too, but I like boon duration more than healing power, so the stats are kind of a wash for me (leaning towards vit + boon duration though). Thieves healing power scaling is kitten. As far as traits go i think an argument can be made either way for sustain.

SA- blind + condi removal (only 1 condition in most cases though), ~360-370 regen/second while stealth+ 1s longer stealth

VS:

acro- 33%+ vigor uptime+ free endurance form feline grace+ pain response + 2s stability attacking out of stealth.

After looking at it I’d say SA is better if using Hide in Shadows in heal, where acro si superior with withdraw. I like withdraw for p/d. If using carrion though the +300 toughness would be a much bigger deal and stealth would be more important since squishier, so I’d go SA. But I can’t justify power as a secondary stat with no precision/ferocity

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)

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Posted by: roamzero.9486

roamzero.9486

a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness.

Lol, it’s pretty easy to make a d/p Thief with 3k armor, 2.5k power, and almost 20k HP (assuming full guard leech buffs/blood lust). D/p is just as faceroll as P/d.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness.

Lol, it’s pretty easy to make a d/p Thief with 3k armor, 2.5k power, and almost 20k HP (assuming full guard leech buffs/blood lust). D/p is just as faceroll as P/d.

Seriously? Who would ever play a tanky D/P…

And there’s a reason that someone stacking pure condition damage traits will be tankier than someone stacking full power traits:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Berserker%27s_Amulet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Rabid_Amulet

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Posted by: oxtred.7658

oxtred.7658

a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness.

Lol, it’s pretty easy to make a d/p Thief with 3k armor, 2.5k power, and almost 20k HP (assuming full guard leech buffs/blood lust). D/p is just as faceroll as P/d.

I thought we were speaking of meta builds, where a D/P thief will have both critical strikes and trickery maxed out. That’s 14k health in full berserker with stacks, and about 16-17 in a tankier ( read: less effective in what it’s supposed to do) build.

If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.

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Posted by: mango.9267

mango.9267

a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness.

Lol, it’s pretty easy to make a d/p Thief with 3k armor, 2.5k power, and almost 20k HP (assuming full guard leech buffs/blood lust). D/p is just as faceroll as P/d.

Seriously? Who would ever play a tanky D/P…

And there’s a reason that someone stacking pure condition damage traits will be tankier than someone stacking full power traits:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Berserker%27s_Amulet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Rabid_Amulet

Actually, 3k armor d/p builds were popular for a while in WvW. Decent hp, high armor, 2k+ attack. Very low crit chance, but relied on Hidden Killer for the dps.

To respond to OP’s thread: the trait isn’t worth it. In WvW, SA is better than acro. Cloaked in shadow will deal with both CC’s against your sneak attacks and interrupts on your stomps.

Second Child

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Posted by: Talek.6795

Talek.6795

Evening chaps, i see you have d/p discussion threat around this trait, but i would like to put my 2 cents:
I’ve tested it a lot playing DD thief in top100-200 eu teamQ. Great trait for opening against engies and necros, you can keep high pressure and 99,9% chance to get them pop up lots of def cds.

Talék

(edited by Talek.6795)

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Posted by: Cam Ron.4170

Cam Ron.4170

a d/P power doesn’t have 20k health and a ton of toughness.

Lol, it’s pretty easy to make a d/p Thief with 3k armor, 2.5k power, and almost 20k HP (assuming full guard leech buffs/blood lust). D/p is just as faceroll as P/d.

Seriously? Who would ever play a tanky D/P…

And there’s a reason that someone stacking pure condition damage traits will be tankier than someone stacking full power traits:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Berserker%27s_Amulet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Rabid_Amulet

Actually, 3k armor d/p builds were popular for a while in WvW. Decent hp, high armor, 2k+ attack. Very low crit chance, but relied on Hidden Killer for the dps.

To respond to OP’s thread: the trait isn’t worth it. In WvW, SA is better than acro. Cloaked in shadow will deal with both CC’s against your sneak attacks and interrupts on your stomps.

There are many forums of CC in this game that bypass blind, perhaps even more than half of them? (idk not sure) That being said cloaked in shadow is pretty amazing for a 2 point triat, but IMO overall acro offers more to P/D condition builds. (I value the huge boost in sustain thru endurance generaion for my p/d playstyle to the healing/condi remove of SA)

(edited by Cam Ron.4170)