At least in WoW, stealth was balanced

At least in WoW, stealth was balanced

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Posted by: Tarinis.6054

Tarinis.6054

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

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Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

In WoW rogues are more assassins than anything, they spend 90% of their time out of stealth once combat starts, it’s just a mechanic to open or escape.

As a thief, I disagree with stealth in this game, so much so that I’ve completely dropped it out of my gameplay.

I am unsure as to what you mean by spending money though. The stealth trap? lol

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

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Posted by: Osi.3504

Osi.3504

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

In WoW if you stealthed you wouldn’t be hit anymore, on GW2 if a ranger or another class has you locked in and you stealth, you have heat seeking arrows hitting you still. I don’t really see the problem with stealth personally, people need to play smart and predict where to hit after they stealth, you already have the class slowly being destroyed and losing it’s unique abilities to other classes which are gaining stealth left and right and also soon enough being able to remove stealth.

Plus you got warriors with better mobility than a thief if they have a greatsword out, ANET really needs to think over things.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

I have no problem destroying thieves all day. Simply because you have not learned how to do so with your preferred profession doesn’t make stealth OP. It just displays a common pattern of how folks like to blame their inabilities on anything but their inabilities.

What might serve you better is to focus on developing a solution instead of complaining about the problem and transferring blame.

Oh and by the way, stealth was not balanced in WoW in the least if you ask me. But again, that is a matter of perception.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Transvestosaurus.2381

Transvestosaurus.2381

I’m really new (lvl 11 Thief, lol) but I’m already feeling the difficulty of stealth compared to what I’m used to. Bursts of three seconds isn’t really enough.

I’m used to Warhammer Online (yeah, I know. It was awesome though…) where you could spend near enough half your time running around stealthed. How does one use stealth in GW2 to annoy people as much as this thread makes out?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m sure if you looked on the WoW forums and looked at what people were saying a about stealth, or any class, you’d find all the same accusations of imbalance and OP.

There hasn’t been an MMORPG created where this hasn’t occurred.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

I’m really new (lvl 11 Thief, lol) but I’m already feeling the difficulty of stealth compared to what I’m used to. Bursts of three seconds isn’t really enough.

I’m used to Warhammer Online (yeah, I know. It was awesome though…) where you could spend near enough half your time running around stealthed. How does one use stealth in GW2 to annoy people as much as this thread makes out?

Dagger + Pistol and a lot of ini regen stuff. Pistol 5, heartseeker through it over and over. It’s very easy to counter on some classes though.

Thieves are pretty bad off right now tbh. Not the best 1v1 class, not great in small groups, bad in large ones. The problem with them is that so many of their survival traits are stealthed based. When you’re stealthed you’re not dealing damage… you’re also not supporting your team very well. Sure you can stealth stomp, but that’s pretty whatever in most cases.

At most I find thieves to be minor annoyances, but the vast majority of the time they are just free lootbags.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

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Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

I’m sure if you looked on the WoW forums and looked at what people were saying a about stealth, or any class, you’d find all the same accusations of imbalance and OP.

There hasn’t been an MMORPG created where this hasn’t occurred.

Honestly this doesn’t happen anymore, but true it has a history just as any other MMO using a stealth mechanic. Rogues are more QQ prone to their CC mechanics. Blizz has done a very good job with stealth.

I just wish ANet would make stealth a permanent buff until you take or receive damage and give us 1 or 2 situational vanishes that make you immune to losing stealth from damage for 3 seconds. Other than vanishes, stealth not useable in combat.

Down with stealth spam, bring on the assassin gameplay.

Edit: some arguments I could see coming

1) a bunch of thieves could stealth and gank 1 target for an instant down (already possible, this changes nothing)

2) pve you can stealth past mobs, but how other games did it elite mobs can see through stealth at a close range and regular mobs can see you if you stand to close in front of them.

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

(edited by Mathias.9657)

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Posted by: clint.5681

clint.5681

Man stealth isnt that hard to counter if you actually know anything about the thief class and your not ful glass cannon yourself. But its easier to come to the forums and complain than it is to get good.

Rangir Dangir – Ranger | Mr. Ragr- Guardian| Sneak Stab – Thief | Mr. Ragir- Warrior
[url=https://] [/url]

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Posted by: Zoltreez.6435

Zoltreez.6435

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

-Stellaris
-Total War: Warhammer
-Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: Lafiel.9372

Lafiel.9372

To be fair, I think damage should reveal stealth though or at least show faint trails of it.

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Posted by: Icarus Pherae.4680

Icarus Pherae.4680

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Tell you what we’ll make a trade, I will accept your damage reveals my stealth, if I also get the timerless stealth of the WoW rogue. As long as we stop channeled attacks from continuing to target a thief in stealth.

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Posted by: Aerlen.5326

Aerlen.5326

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Tell you what we’ll make a trade, I will accept your damage reveals my stealth, if I also get the timerless stealth of the WoW rogue. As long as we stop channeled attacks from continuing to target a thief in stealth.

I’d take that deal too. I liked how WoW treated stealth.

~Tarnished Coast Pride~

Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

To be fair, I think damage should reveal stealth though or at least show faint trails of it.

IMO stealth just needs counters.

I kinda wonder why a few things aren’t part of the Boon/Condition system; Stealth, Revealed and Quickness are some of them. Being able to directly remove or flip Stealth with things like Well of Corruption, Acidic Elixirs, Null Field might work.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Crawford.4135

Crawford.4135

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

If WoW had the stealth GW2 had, it would make the Rogues in WoW insanely over powered.

Being able to stealth IN COMBAT is what makes Stealth in this game very overpowering.

Take my stealth, ok — GIVE ME AN INSANE AMOUNT OF ARMOR & HP, THEN, WE’LL TALK.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

If WoW had the stealth GW2 had, it would make the Rogues in WoW insanely over powered.

Being able to stealth IN COMBAT is what makes Stealth in this game very overpowering.

Take my stealth, ok — GIVE ME AN INSANE AMOUNT OF ARMOR & HP, THEN, WE’LL TALK.

Thieves in gw2 can’t sap, don’t have an auto dodge skill, don’t stunlock you then deal massive damage, strip off your armor/weapons then deal massive damage, etc. etc. etc… it’s apples and oranges.

I would like it if my thief didn’t have so much survival tied to stealth though… but that would require an overhaul of the class (which I’m not opposed to, but it means it probably won’t happen)

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, there would be a clear paths of counterplay (instead of just a few dinky counterspells) when versing a thief. In fact there might be room for some slight thief buffs if anything.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Icarus Pherae.4680

Icarus Pherae.4680

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

Obviously there would have to be rebalancing, as I stated, which you ignored.

And frankly, your post is nothing but air, a load of assumptions typical of an elitist. Get off your high horse. Because people do not have the same opinion as you, does not mean they know nothing about the game, are looking to make it worse or simpler, or are ‘baddies’. I can’t remember the last time I lost to a thief in WvW or even saw one contribute much of anything in SPvP.

Regardless of that, they are not fun to play against, only to play as. And for anybody looking out for the greater health of the game at large, that cannot be okay.

When the thief allows for a fun and balanced trade of skill between itself and it’s opponents, I will stop complaining, as will most players. You and those like you however, will continue eternally to complain about how everyone isn’t good enough to breathe the same air or walk the same ground as you.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Xengri.4901

Xengri.4901

ITT, people who probably don’t even main thieves ask for them to be made a carbon copy of WoW.
No thanks. How about try and learn how to deal with a different take on a stealth based class? Thieves at the moment are certainly not far and above the best class for pvp. Others have mentioned, and it’s easy to see ingame that there are many ways to deal with stealth (more are on the way too).

The fact that people would openly advocate revamping thieves to better suit some cliche stereotype is kinda disturbing to me. Please don’t listen to them Anet, continue to practice your creativity in class archetypes.
And you players need to continue practicing, period. Just cause something is different, doesn’t make it OP. Learn to adapt. Not just for your sake, but for the sake of variety in video games.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Have any of you guys actually plaid a thief… and not Vs. random WvW bads? Doesn’t sound like it to me.

What classes do you people even think that a thief can beat in an even 1v1 (excluding bads)?

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Have any of you guys actually plaid a thief… and not Vs. random WvW bads? Doesn’t sound like it to me.

And two for the show…

Your post is nothing but air, a load of assumptions typical of an elitist. Get off your high horse. Because people do not have the same opinion as you, does not mean they know nothing about the game, are looking to make it worse or simpler, or are ‘baddies’. I can’t remember the last time I lost to a thief in WvW or even saw one contribute much of anything in SPvP.

Regardless of that, they are not fun to play against, only to play as. And for anybody looking out for the greater health of the game at large, that cannot be okay.

When the thief allows for a fun and balanced trade of skill between itself and it’s opponents, I will stop complaining, as will most players. You and those like you however, will continue eternally to complain about how everyone isn’t good enough to breathe the same air or walk the same ground as you.

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Posted by: Kaizer.7135

Kaizer.7135

Never played WoW, but if it’s anything like other MMO’s then I’m betting the Rogue in WoW also had more evasion than other classes?

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Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

ITT, people who probably don’t even main thieves ask for them to be made a carbon copy of WoW.
No thanks. How about try and learn how to deal with a different take on a stealth based class? Thieves at the moment are certainly not far and above the best class for pvp. Others have mentioned, and it’s easy to see ingame that there are many ways to deal with stealth (more are on the way too).

The fact that people would openly advocate revamping thieves to better suit some cliche stereotype is kinda disturbing to me. Please don’t listen to them Anet, continue to practice your creativity in class archetypes.
And you players need to continue practicing, period. Just cause something is different, doesn’t make it OP. Learn to adapt. Not just for your sake, but for the sake of variety in video games.

I main thief, and stealth is screwed in this game. PS: refuge only used when ally is down.

Attachments:

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Have any of you guys actually plaid a thief… and not Vs. random WvW bads? Doesn’t sound like it to me.

And two for the show…

Your post is nothing but air, a load of assumptions typical of an elitist. Get off your high horse. Because people do not have the same opinion as you, does not mean they know nothing about the game, are looking to make it worse or simpler, or are ‘baddies’. I can’t remember the last time I lost to a thief in WvW or even saw one contribute much of anything in SPvP.

Regardless of that, they are not fun to play against, only to play as. And for anybody looking out for the greater health of the game at large, that cannot be okay.

When the thief allows for a fun and balanced trade of skill between itself and it’s opponents, I will stop complaining, as will most players. You and those like you however, will continue eternally to complain about how everyone isn’t good enough to breathe the same air or walk the same ground as you.

I rarely if ever play my thief anymore because of how easy it is to counter. I don’t find it fun to play as a class that usually only beats bad players.

Sure it’s annoying at times to fight against thief (depending on what class you play), but so what? Are guards always fun to play against? lol nope. What about regen warriors? lol nope. Eles that trolololol vapor form back inside towers/keeps? Nope. Perplexity or healing Eng? Nope. Mesmers? Nope….

I hope you see my point. … thieves are hardly the only annoying class in the game. Some of the others can be just as bad if not worse in their own way. At least the thief is going to drop into downed state 2 seconds after he goes into stealth if you know how to fight against them. If you can’t manage that, just beat them off once, make them retreat, and move on.

Seriously… what classes do you feel a thief will beat in an evenly skilled 1v1?

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

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Posted by: Kaizer.7135

Kaizer.7135

…PS: refuge only used when ally is down.

Sure it is, lol.

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Posted by: Arius.7031

Arius.7031

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

I have no problem destroying thieves all day. Simply because you have not learned how to do so with your preferred profession doesn’t make stealth OP. It just displays a common pattern of how folks like to blame their inabilities on anything but their inabilities.

What might serve you better is to focus on developing a solution instead of complaining about the problem and transferring blame.

Oh and by the way, stealth was not balanced in WoW in the least if you ask me. But again, that is a matter of perception.

To be fair, even if a mechanic isn’t OP, that doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic. As it stands, most people hate thieves not because they’re OP, but because they’re seriously annoying. Further, predicting where to hit doesn’t do you much good against thieves, as they’ll be doing far more damage to you while you while you’re relying on luck to even score on hit against them.

Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]

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Posted by: Charak.9761

Charak.9761

Speaking as a S4 gladiator Rogue, and server-first top-DPS rogue. (Charak – Blade’s Edge – 2004-2009)

Stealth in WoW
- Breaks on damage or debuff (ie warrior shout)
- Not 100% stealth, you can be seen if you’re too close (unless you had the secondary buff of vanish which improves the stealth, so you wouldnt be respotted when using it)
– The safer route of vanish was a macro to stop attack, because that melee attack going into vanish may pre-break the vanish
- Vanish was 5min CD, I think it got changed to 2mins last time I played, with a 10min CD prep to let you do another vanish
- inital stealth is permanent until you attack or get attacked

GW2
- Does not break on damage or debuff
- provides regen
- 90% uptime on stealth
- works as a secondary evade
- inital stealth has a short buff

I’m glad rangers are getting a anti-stealth come Tuesday (same as hunters had flare), but the CD needs a rework or give another class anti-stealth.

Unrelated to stealth, currently thieves can win without using weapons:
http://youtu.be/1z-d9vGO52E

(edited by Charak.9761)

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

I have no problem destroying thieves all day. Simply because you have not learned how to do so with your preferred profession doesn’t make stealth OP. It just displays a common pattern of how folks like to blame their inabilities on anything but their inabilities.

What might serve you better is to focus on developing a solution instead of complaining about the problem and transferring blame.

Oh and by the way, stealth was not balanced in WoW in the least if you ask me. But again, that is a matter of perception.

To be fair, even if a mechanic isn’t OP, that doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic. As it stands, most people hate thieves not because they’re OP, but because they’re seriously annoying. Further, predicting where to hit doesn’t do you much good against thieves, as they’ll be doing far more damage to you while you while you’re relying on luck to even score on hit against them.

Again… it’s hardly the only annoying thing in this game. If you play a thief for a while you’ll be able to predict them very well and it does a world of good for you in a fight. The better you get at it the less luck based it’ll be.

Mele weapons even tell you if you’re hitting by their chains. If you do a channeled attack it’ll keep tracking them/hitting them. If you cond burst them before they enter stealth… it still keeps on doing damage. Use these sorts things to your advantage.

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

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Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

…PS: refuge only used when ally is down.

Sure it is, lol.

Refuge in a 1v1 or on a point is the mark of a bad thief, the only thing refuge is good for is rezzing someone. I used to use it for myself all the time but it would be on cooldown when it really counted, so it mostly goes unused but it’s invaluable for team fights.

I consider it the same cheese as a paladin using bubble in WoW, it shouldn’t be used selfishly.

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

(edited by Mathias.9657)

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

…PS: refuge only used when ally is down.

Sure it is, lol.

Refuge in a 1v1 or on a point is the mark of a bad thief, the only thing refuge is good for is rezzing someone. I used to use it for myself all the time but it would be on cooldown when it really counted, so it mostly goes unused but it’s invaluable for team fights.

Not true. It also makes a very good misdirect. Toss SR in an area where you’re not going and people will presume you’re inside it.

For small group fights it doesn’t usually matter if you SR some one that’s downed… they are probably going to die anyways… as well as put yourself in danger because you’re right next to them ressing. It does work against the new players that don’t understand what’s going on though…

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

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Posted by: lethlora.1320

lethlora.1320

the only reason stealth is annoying in PvP is because the game has a tendency to not show the thief as visible as soon as they appear like they ought to, so you have a whole lot of thieves popping in and out of stealth at seemingly rapid intervals, much more so than they actually are.

but I haven’t even done sPvP in a while so I have no idea if the game still does this.

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

There’s a three- or four-second cooldown on stealth depending on the environment, so thieves are not “stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out.”

They do need to and are adding a couple more mechanics to deal with stealth, but it’s mostly a learn-to-play issue. Just ask yourself, why are high-rated players not constantly complaining about stealth?

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Again… it’s hardly the only annoying thing in this game. If you play a thief for a while you’ll be able to predict them very well and it does a world of good for you in a fight. The better you get at it the less luck based it’ll be.

Mele weapons even tell you if you’re hitting by their chains. If you do a channeled attack it’ll keep tracking them/hitting them. If you cond burst them before they enter stealth… it still keeps on doing damage. Use these sorts things to your advantage.

There are only 23 chain skills, nearly 600 skills in the game. One entire class does not have a single chain skill, one class has one, and three classes have only three.

Only targeted channels work, of which there are 9 if you do not count downed skills. Two last longer than three and a half seconds, one is as short as a second and a half.

Every single stealth build carries shadows embrace, so no conditions do not continue ticking, since more than half of the games classes cannot build with more than 2-3 conditions on their bar, only 1-2 of which actually deals damage.

And I’ve said it before and I will say it again, cooking the air is not a viable solution! It is a laughable suggestion, stop it! In most MMOs there are plenty of spammable AoEs because the developers can meter their use with mana. That isn’t possible here, excepting the thief itself there is no resource control beyond cooldowns, and as such nearly no spammable AoEs. Additionally, no MMO has ever allowed for as much movement as GW2 does, and no class has more movement than the thief, making what little AoE spam there is of even less worth.

Stealth needs a mechanical counter, not a bunch of nitpicky situational little bits found here and there on this build and that build. You don’t have to find ridiculous little offset uses of one ability or another for any other mechanic in the game, this should be no exception.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Again… it’s hardly the only annoying thing in this game. If you play a thief for a while you’ll be able to predict them very well and it does a world of good for you in a fight. The better you get at it the less luck based it’ll be.

Mele weapons even tell you if you’re hitting by their chains. If you do a channeled attack it’ll keep tracking them/hitting them. If you cond burst them before they enter stealth… it still keeps on doing damage. Use these sorts things to your advantage.

There are only 23 chain skills, nearly 600 skills in the game. One entire class does not have a single chain skill, one class has one, and three classes have only three.

Only targeted channels work, of which there are 9 if you do not count downed skills. Two last longer than three and a half seconds, one is as short as a second and a half.

Every single stealth build carries shadows embrace, so no conditions do not continue ticking, since more than half of the games classes cannot build with more than 2-3 conditions on their bar, only 1-2 of which actually deals damage.

And I’ve said it before and I will say it again, cooking the air is not a viable solution! It is a laughable suggestion, stop it! In most MMOs there are plenty of spammable AoEs because the developers can meter their use with mana. That isn’t possible here, excepting the thief itself there is no resource control beyond cooldowns, and as such nearly no spammable AoEs. Additionally, no MMO has ever allowed for as much movement as GW2 does, and no class has more movement than the thief, making what little AoE spam there is of even less worth.

Stealth needs a mechanical counter, not a bunch of nitpicky situational little bits found here and there on this build and that build. You don’t have to find ridiculous little offset uses of one ability or another for any other mechanic in the game, this should be no exception.

I forgot aoe and traps as well… my bad. My roaming eng only has 2 channeled skills… one of which does no damage, but I have no problem killing thieves with him. My guard has none (other than his downed)… still no problems. It’s not the number you have, but how you use your entire skillset.

1 cond removal every 3s while in stealth isn’t alot. If you’re only putting out like 2 conds… you shouldn’t be killing much of anything with conds regardless if it’s a thief or not.

Thieves are the best at mobility… but they need to burn their lifeblood to do it (ini). Compaire this to warrior mobility. Still very high, but without that major drawback. You can also CC the thief and reduce that. There is a lot of play to it.

Most classes don’t have that many issues with thieves when they are plaid equally as well (excluding the low end which thieves do have an advantage in). If you are having problems I would suggest that you go to your class forum and ask how to deal with thieves rather than ask for a nerf. What class/classes do you play btw?

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

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Posted by: Icarus Pherae.4680

Icarus Pherae.4680

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

Obviously there would have to be rebalancing, as I stated, which you ignored.

And frankly, your post is nothing but air, a load of assumptions typical of an elitist. Get off your high horse. Because people do not have the same opinion as you, does not mean they know nothing about the game, are looking to make it worse or simpler, or are ‘baddies’. I can’t remember the last time I lost to a thief in WvW or even saw one contribute much of anything in SPvP.

Regardless of that, they are not fun to play against, only to play as. And for anybody looking out for the greater health of the game at large, that cannot be okay.

When the thief allows for a fun and balanced trade of skill between itself and it’s opponents, I will stop complaining, as will most players. You and those like you however, will continue eternally to complain about how everyone isn’t good enough to breathe the same air or walk the same ground as you.

Clearly someone has ruffled your feathers, if my post came off as “elitist” or inflammatory I apologize, it was not my intent. No worries my horse is quite similarly sized with your’s. I never claimed people are bad, I even agreed that permastealth is frustrating, however as someone who does main a thief I can say that they have very little survivability, unless you trait into acrobatics, then it is a little better. When I do pvp I don’t use stealth at all, which is apparently is a commonality I share with people who play thief in pvp who are much better than me (I guess the “pros” view it as a crutch). I apologize again about the unintended tone, my post was written with a more “ah man, not again” sort of jaded feel. In every MMO featuring a stealth character there is endless criticism for the class, and we thief players have weathered quite a bit as it is. It can be disheartening to see so many nerfs to a class when a lot of the time they are not really warranted. Frankly a lot of the suggestions in this thread seem to be incompatible with how the thief works in GW2 (excluding comments like your’s of course) the general player base seems to suffer from a lack of understanding of the thief, and how it works.

In the future I hope you don’t feel you need to jump to the conclusion that a person with a differing opinion is an elitist, or “one of them” because, ironically, you made some pretty large assumptions in your post about “people like me”. I agree the thief can be quite strong, and their ability to reset combat can be quite tricky, and some builds have in the past been quite ridiculous, but I also know that right now in pvp they are one of the weakest classes (I don’t wvw so forgive me if the situation is different in wvw, but I don’t have much experience with it). I understand why you drew those conclusions however, because there are a lot of “QQ MOAR NOOBZ, l2p!” which is rude, inflammatory, and frankly stemming from players tired of seeing criticism that is usually unwarranted (notice I said usually).

Out of curiosity, which profession do you enjoy playing the most? Perhaps some players could give you advice on how to counter thieves specifically. I have a few 80s but I really have only done pvp with a thief, but perhaps I could tell you how I often find your favorite class beating me, and maybe that could help?

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Posted by: clint.5681

clint.5681

Knowledge and skill is the only thing you need to counter thieves in this game. IF you have niether you tend to rage. These days thieves arent even a problem compared to warriors. If you are seriously losing to thieves to the point you come an shed your tears on the forums L2P.

Rangir Dangir – Ranger | Mr. Ragr- Guardian| Sneak Stab – Thief | Mr. Ragir- Warrior
[url=https://] [/url]

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Posted by: Murashin.8295

Murashin.8295

Make a thief chara and learn how to kill a thief using other classes.

Topic closed.

(I am a main warrior and never got problem killing thieves. Bet you are a useful ranger or necro)

(edited by Murashin.8295)

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Posted by: Sanduskel.1850

Sanduskel.1850

no other game allows for perma stealth – continued attacking while stealthed. only this one. Other decently balanced games forced long cool downs to stealth after attacking or being attacked. decent thieves don’t rely on the scrub perma stealth build. they know it’s for scrubs, and they’d rather have a challenge.

OP’d thief, lol

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

Make a thief chara and learn how to kill a thief using other classes.

Topic closed.

(I am a main warrior and never got problem killing thieves. Bet you are a useful ranger or necro)

Necros are pretty good against thieves…

no other game allows for perma stealth – continued attacking while stealthed. only this one. Other decently balanced games forced long cool downs to stealth after attacking or being attacked. decent thieves don’t rely on the scrub perma stealth build. they know it’s for scrubs, and they’d rather have a challenge.

Wat?

Tarnished Coast
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Posted by: Sanduskel.1850

Sanduskel.1850

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

no they aren’t made of wet tissue paper. stop exaggerating, lol.

OP’d thief, lol

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Posted by: Icarus Pherae.4680

Icarus Pherae.4680

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

no they aren’t made of wet tissue paper. stop exaggerating, lol.

They have the lowest health pool in the game, second lowest armor, and very limited condi removal, and only have access to a maximum of 900 range, they are pretty darn squishy. And for clarity on a post further up, you can’t attack and remain in stealth, if you are witnessing that it might be some kind of graphics glitch, after attacking you lose stealth and suffer from the “revealed debuff” in with which you cannot restealth for four seconds.

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Posted by: Sanduskel.1850

Sanduskel.1850

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

no they aren’t made of wet tissue paper. stop exaggerating, lol.

They have the lowest health pool in the game, second lowest armor, and very limited condi removal, and only have access to a maximum of 900 range, they are pretty darn squishy. And for clarity on a post further up, you can’t attack and remain in stealth, if you are witnessing that it might be some kind of graphics glitch, after attacking you lose stealth and suffer from the “revealed debuff” in with which you cannot restealth for four seconds.

it’s quite simple to attack and remain in stealth. not sure if it’s considered an exploit, but i’ve done it plenty when specced as a permastealther. In wvw the so called revealed is 3 s, but it doesn’t actually work if you employ a few techniques. secondly, our health pool isn’t any worse than at least 2 other classes. our shortbow has the same range as that of a ranger, and if you see a lb specced ranger, lol. pity him.

OP’d thief, lol

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Posted by: Icarus Pherae.4680

Icarus Pherae.4680

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

no they aren’t made of wet tissue paper. stop exaggerating, lol.

They have the lowest health pool in the game, second lowest armor, and very limited condi removal, and only have access to a maximum of 900 range, they are pretty darn squishy. And for clarity on a post further up, you can’t attack and remain in stealth, if you are witnessing that it might be some kind of graphics glitch, after attacking you lose stealth and suffer from the “revealed debuff” in with which you cannot restealth for four seconds.

it’s quite simple to attack and remain in stealth. not sure if it’s considered an exploit, but i’ve done it plenty when specced as a permastealther. In wvw the so called revealed is 3 s, but it doesn’t actually work if you employ a few techniques. secondly, our health pool isn’t any worse than at least 2 other classes. our shortbow has the same range as that of a ranger, and if you see a lb specced ranger, lol. pity him.

I’d love to see how to do this exploit, and exploit it is, I am in full endorsement of doing away with such a thing, I agree it is totally unfair. Which is why it isn’t intended to work. I wasn’t suggesting it was worse than ele or mesmer, but the fact remains that it is the lowest tier of health in the game, which when combined with limited condi removal can drop you very quickly. Your comment about shortbow is obvious, again my suggestion was that thief has no weapon options beyond 900 range, which means you will most likely be forced to melee, unlike classes that can start damaging you as you close. Granted not many ranged weapons do a lot of damage, but being able to hit someone when they cannot hit you is a considerable advantage. and since most if not all ranged weapons have some form of CC your pitiful ranged damage starts to stack up.

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Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

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Posted by: Icarus Pherae.4680

Icarus Pherae.4680

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

I agree with you that people should realize that stealth has it’s limits, and I will also mention that it does seem the thief is balanced around stealth, but there are plenty of S/P builds that use no stealth at all and remain pretty viable, I wouldn’t say they are useless without stealth, or that we couldn’t survive.

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Posted by: Stx.4857

Stx.4857

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

1) Thieves are easy to kill. Try playing one, it helps.

2) WoW is such a different game, making any kind of comparison is useless.

3) Evade builds are just as strong if not stronger than stealth builds, so are you really complaining about stealth or do you just hate losing to thieves?

2x 80 Necro, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief

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Posted by: DeckerDontPlay.1639

DeckerDontPlay.1639

Rogues were about stun lock in WoW and there was just as much, if not, more QQ about rogues.

My adrenaline rush mace spec + empyrean demolisher was extremely OP

The prep spec rogues could double ambush…and rogues with 3 pieces of nightslayer could double backstab…soooo yeah. You just don’t remember the tears and I do cause it’s all I played.

Sixes – KUM – Maguuma

(edited by DeckerDontPlay.1639)

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Posted by: Incurafy.6329

Incurafy.6329

To be fair, I think damage should reveal stealth though or at least show faint trails of it.

IMO stealth just needs counters.

I kinda wonder why a few things aren’t part of the Boon/Condition system; Stealth, Revealed and Quickness are some of them. Being able to directly remove or flip Stealth with things like Well of Corruption, Acidic Elixirs, Null Field might work.

I am so sick of hearing that stealth needs counters, IT ALREADY HAS COUNTERS. If it didn’t have counters then no one would be able to counter it, but surprise surprise, a huge amount of players can!

Also, LOL @ Sanduskal posting his usual kitten about how stealth is a scrub crutch (only scrubs don’t use every mechanic to their advantage), and now spreading lies that you canaattack while stealthed and remain in stealth without any explanation or evidence.

thiefhitfor2kbetternerf
all is vain

(edited by Incurafy.6329)

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Posted by: Karolis.4261

Karolis.4261

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

You seriously comparing 2 games with completally different combat mechanics ? “Taking damage brough one out of stealth”… IF u played wow rogue, you would know that in wow it is kitten easy to avoid aoe that would break stealth simply because there isnt so much aoe and most of skills requires target to be used. If you havent noticed, allmost every single attack in gw2, including auto attacks, is Aoe and dont require target to be used. When WoW Rogue stealthes in combat, thats it, hes perfectly safe (If he used cloak of shadows). In Gw2 however hes still afected by any source of damage and cc, even aoe pulls will work. Stealth breaking on damage would not work in this game.

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