Guild Wars 2

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

CiS would also need to be moved to master tier, that would go a long way to fixing d/d.

Dakarius.3284:

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

CiS would also need to be moved to master tier, that would go a long way to fixing d/d.

This really needs to happen it’s bad enough that SE only clears damaging conditions and all that was lost after June 23 but CiS really has to come back to master tier or CnD gets baseline blind.

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?

Shirk.6421:

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?

Backstab does between 4k and 6k crits in sPvP, if you have 12k health, you might want to switch out of Berzerker amulet.

Although, 4.8 coef would be too much. I was thinking a 20 to 30% buff, not 100%. That’s crazy talk.

Nocta.5274:

Shirk.6421:

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?

Backstab does between 4k and 6k crits in sPvP, if you have 12k health, you might want to switch out of Berzerker amulet.

Although, 4.8 coef would be too much. I was thinking a 20 to 30% buff, not 100%. That’s crazy talk.

You were faster.
Just testing again against light golems in HotM Light Golem.
So 2180 armor and 14.000 health. Backstab was around 4500-5500 crits in that case (meta-build). So even the highest would never get half of your HP, you need to be melee and on the side/back of your enemy. Automatic cooldown through revealed, needs stealth.
Now YOU come here and ask us what we smoke? Wth! First get your knowledge up to date and then play thief some time against competent enemies (PVP, not WvW).
A lot of skills have a similar “cooldown” like backstab while being ranged, higher damage, tracking, etc. Normally backstab is only the opener on thief on the metabuild, while most damage comes through autoattack and shadowshot.

Again I’ll reiterate thief is balanced, gut every thing else.

I would say the main sources of problems for thief are:

-Every class except necro (and thief of course) has invulnerabilities via traits or skills to negate our burst.
-This includes traits that proc fear, taunt, counter-stun when we stun them (our burst is highly reliant upon mug + backstab/pistol whip. But the class itself is dependent upon sleight of hand/trickery).
-Lack of might. All classes have some way to stack might to increase their damage and thief has 0 access to it. Backstab may have a high damage coefficient, but it does not hit as nearly as hard as other classes because we cannot scale it via might.

tl;dr: reduce access to invulnerabilities and reduce the access to might so you cannot wear a tanky amulet while still hitting hard.

witcher.3197:

Ranked is disabled so people are forced to play Skyhammer and other maps that are unfit for proper PvP (there is a reason why those aren’t in ranked). We have no choice. What stops you from rerolling, on the other hand?

Because the Thief is unique. It has a style unlike anything else. It is like the anti-Skyhammer compared to other professions. I can choose what skills I wish to use whenever I wish as long as I have the initiative to do so. I don’t have to do choreographed skill rotations. It’s completely improv and adapt.

To play something other than the Thief for me is like playing Skyhammer every match for you. It is all about personal preference. And we are both in bad places right now.

Right now, the Thief is as unfit for PvP (literally “Player versus Player”) just as you say Skyhammer is. It did not used to be, however. Thief players just want to become fit to actually fight 1v1’s based on skill again.

Of course, if other professions were given the initiative system, that could also be an alternative, but that’s not happening any time soon.

List of easy fixes:

Non-Negotiable- Preparedness baseline. Idgaf what you replace it with, could just say “No trait for you” so long as I get baseline preparedness.

Negotiable:

Backstab hits for less than death shroud 1 (im not kidding. I get MORE from my autos in ds than my full long set up of backstab). 25-50% damage boost to each side to make it more handy.
Heartseeker is weaker than Shadow Shot (d/p 3) at all stages minus the 25% hp hit stage. Fix that.
Cloak and Dagger needs something. Range?
Sneak Attack needs to apply Burning OR Shadow Strike needs to apply Burning.
Flanking+larcenous get merged (4 ini total). Unblockable, evade, steals 1 boon. Why? Because death blossom does more than this skill for less, is spammable, has no after/pre-cast.
Assassin’s Signet revert. Make it do 150% bonus damage. Make it assassinate. Comon, its stupid “15%” damage is terrible. Besides, you gave it to Ranger. Signet of the Hunt or something.
Signet of Shadows does not stunbreak, however Signet of Air does? Exact same skills, but obvious prejudice.

I’d make a longer list…but its just…we’d be here for ages. PREPAREDNESS BASELINE CAMPAIGN CONTINUES!

Start Small,
Increase base Health By 1000-2000 (honestly they should do this with all low base hp classes at this point.)
This would give us more build diversity, since it would open up more rune/sigil choices.

Increase sword damage 7% to 10% (perhaps tack it on one of the sword traits in acro)

Coronit.9432:

Nocta.5274:

Shirk.6421:

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?

Backstab does between 4k and 6k crits in sPvP, if you have 12k health, you might want to switch out of Berzerker amulet.

Although, 4.8 coef would be too much. I was thinking a 20 to 30% buff, not 100%. That’s crazy talk.

You were faster.
Just testing again against light golems in HotM Light Golem.
So 2180 armor and 14.000 health. Backstab was around 4500-5500 crits in that case (meta-build). So even the highest would never get half of your HP, you need to be melee and on the side/back of your enemy. Automatic cooldown through revealed, needs stealth.
Now YOU come here and ask us what we smoke? Wth! First get your knowledge up to date and then play thief some time against competent enemies (PVP, not WvW).
A lot of skills have a similar “cooldown” like backstab while being ranged, higher damage, tracking, etc. Normally backstab is only the opener on thief on the metabuild, while most damage comes through autoattack and shadowshot.

If I run with 2.9k armor and 20k hp, thiefs can take half my hp with one backstab combo. Thief doesn’t need invulnerability. The ten thousand of dodges on sb/staff/sword and the stealth sitting is by far one of the best defense mechanisms in 1v1 situations. While I agree that thief’s aren’t made for fighting on a point 4v4, they have their place in PvP – roaming between points, helping decap points, ressing, finishing. In WvW a thief can reset the fight whenever he wants. I know some very good thief players who mastered this class and it’s one of the most entertaining things fighting them and seeing them fight. If you die as thief fast, it’s a l2p issue. Even a full glass thief has so many defense mechanisms, you should hardly die in any 1v1 situation where you don’t get instant-bursted like from, for example, a burn guard. And if the fight doesn’t work well for you or it takes too long, you can reset anytime. So many thiefs I fight are rubbish, but I have highest respect from those I know to be good.

Shirk.6421:

Coronit.9432:

Nocta.5274:

Shirk.6421:

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?

Backstab does between 4k and 6k crits in sPvP, if you have 12k health, you might want to switch out of Berzerker amulet.

Although, 4.8 coef would be too much. I was thinking a 20 to 30% buff, not 100%. That’s crazy talk.

You were faster.
Just testing again against light golems in HotM Light Golem.
So 2180 armor and 14.000 health. Backstab was around 4500-5500 crits in that case (meta-build). So even the highest would never get half of your HP, you need to be melee and on the side/back of your enemy. Automatic cooldown through revealed, needs stealth.
Now YOU come here and ask us what we smoke? Wth! First get your knowledge up to date and then play thief some time against competent enemies (PVP, not WvW).
A lot of skills have a similar “cooldown” like backstab while being ranged, higher damage, tracking, etc. Normally backstab is only the opener on thief on the metabuild, while most damage comes through autoattack and shadowshot.

If I run with 2.9k armor and 20k hp, thiefs can take half my hp with one backstab combo. Thief doesn’t need invulnerability. The ten thousand of dodges on sb/staff/sword and the stealth sitting is by far one of the best defense mechanisms in 1v1 situations. While I agree that thief’s aren’t made for fighting on a point 4v4, they have their place in PvP – roaming between points, helping decap points, ressing, finishing. In WvW a thief can reset the fight whenever he wants. I know some very good thief players who mastered this class and it’s one of the most entertaining things fighting them and seeing them fight. If you die as thief fast, it’s a l2p issue. Even a full glass thief has so many defense mechanisms, you should hardly die in any 1v1 situation where you don’t get instant-bursted like from, for example, a burn guard. And if the fight doesn’t work well for you or it takes too long, you can reset anytime. So many thiefs I fight are rubbish, but I have highest respect from those I know to be good.

Resetting fights doesn’t count as a win in pvp. Even more if another class can easily keep capped a node while you’re trying hard to survive with your thief. And no, going for a free cap everytime is not entertaining enough.
WvW is a different story, that belongs to another forum tho.

Right, I’m sorry, forgot it’s in the PvP-, not the thief-section. If I hear a thief complaining about invulnerability… Thieves have the easiest way to avoid it at all. Just let it wear off while sitting in stealth, I really don’t know how hard it can be.

In PvP, thieves have a lot of other strengths than just dealing damage. Well timed shadow refugees for example can win a lot of fights for your team. If you want a bunker… roll another class for PvP. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But saying that thieves needs massive buffs by doubling their damage because otherwise they’re useless is like saying that elephants are weaker than leopards because they can’t climb trees.

Shirk.6421:

Gabriell.4856:

Nocta.5274:

I think a damage buff to Backstab and Larcenous Strike would be a good start to put the power thief build into a better spot.

Increase the front damage to 2.4 coef and the backstab to 4.8. Also, revert Mug back so it can crit. Revert CnD and Dancing Dagger damage to what it was at release.

This won’t address the sustain issue but it will address the 1v1 issue. It also bring back D/D.

Jesus, what did you smoke? You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab, do you want to oneshot everything or what?

The same kitten Anet is smoking. Who would’ve imagine double mind wreck/shatter??? But that kitten is in the game. So look, this thief want a piece of that power creep too.

Shirk.6421:

Right, I’m sorry, forgot it’s in the PvP-, not the thief-section. If I hear a thief complaining about invulnerability… Thieves have the easiest way to avoid it at all. Just let it wear off while sitting in stealth, I really don’t know how hard it can be.

In PvP, thieves have a lot of other strengths than just dealing damage. Well timed shadow refugees for example can win a lot of fights for your team. If you want a bunker… roll another class for PvP. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But saying that thieves needs massive buffs by doubling their damage because otherwise they’re useless is like saying that elephants are weaker than leopards because they can’t climb trees.

Good thing there’s so much AoE spam on the new elites that stealth ressing is even easier than it was before.

Shirk.6421:

You’re already taking half of a player’s health with one backstab

Shirk.6421:

thiefs can take half my hp with one backstab combo.

These two statements are not equal.

I can build to have a very powerful Backstab combo. However, I cannot build to have a very powerful Backstab. And even the combo uses all of my utilities, so I’m left pretty helpless afterward. If it doesn’t down the target, I’m in serious trouble.

As Thief, I have to deal with Thieves also. And as glassy as I am, I can’t remember the last time one burst me down from full health… even with a daze and stun opener from Stealth.

However, I can tell you that I’ve been insta-downed by a Mesmer burst from Stealth. It happened so much faster than any Thief attack I’ve ever experienced. I wish I could hit as hard and as fast.

Shirk.6421:

Right, I’m sorry, forgot it’s in the PvP-, not the thief-section. If I hear a thief complaining about invulnerability… Thieves have the easiest way to avoid it at all. Just let it wear off while sitting in stealth, I really don’t know how hard it can be.

In PvP, thieves have a lot of other strengths than just dealing damage. Well timed shadow refugees for example can win a lot of fights for your team. If you want a bunker… roll another class for PvP. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But saying that thieves needs massive buffs by doubling their damage because otherwise they’re useless is like saying that elephants are weaker than leopards because they can’t climb trees.

The problem right now is that bunker can deal more damage than glass cannons.
If the thief role realy should only be to ress teammates and decap free bases, then bunkers role should only be to defend node and support teammates with condition cleanse. I wonder how many bunkers will be happy in their new role that doeans’t involve killing anyone.
It’s too easy to say that thief is not meant for 1v1ing but mobility is its strenght while every other class can do anything else much better.

how to fix theif.

S/D
1. buff sword base damage 5%
2. reduce offhand dagger initiative use by 1
3. bring back might on dodge

D/p

1. reduce initiative of offhand pistol by 1
2. increase base dagger damage by 3%

for all builds.

bring back range of bow to 1200 yards. Increase base damage by 2%.

Theif is now viable.

Agree, +1 thieves need buffs right now. Some more damage, some more sustain, utility and cc are probably ok. Maybe giving theives protection would help with teamfight problems.

Can we talk about how underpowered theif is if they are not playing stealth (d,p) build? i mean srsly its just so weak.

To fix thief:

Revealed should = 3 seconds in all game modes

Add 2000 hp to base

Cloak and Dagger – reduce ini to 5 and add 1-2 sec blind

Dancing Dagger – add 1 stack torment to each target hit. Increase cripple duration to 5 secs

Backstab – increase damage 10-15%

Shadow Shot – reduce damage 10-15%

Black Powder – reduce ini to 5

Pistol Whip – increase animation speed 10%

Infiltrator’s Return – Break stun once every 20 sec

Larcenous Strike – revert to steal 2 boons

Sarrow.2785:

To fix thief:

Revealed should = 3 seconds in all game modes

Add 2000 hp to base

Cloak and Dagger – reduce ini to 5 and add 1-2 sec blind

Dancing Dagger – add 1 stack torment to each target hit. Increase cripple duration to 5 secs

Backstab – increase damage 10-15%

Shadow Shot – reduce damage 10-15%

Black Powder – reduce ini to 5

Pistol Whip – increase animation speed 10%

Infiltrator’s Return – Break stun once every 20 sec

Larcenous Strike – revert to steal 2 boons

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Suggestion-Buff-Thief-Start-simple/first#post5665954

better weaponset buff suggestions

Just give me back CiS at master tier and revert SE nerf.

No buffs for thieves. Cut back on the power creep instead. Overall damage is out of hand. Once again..

sinject.4607:

ChrizZcE.5981:

Thieves are not meant to fight 1vs1 fights against enemies with full health bars.

• thief can no longer 1v1 many builds due to being left out of the power creep
• all thief can do is out run them
• “g-guys this is what thief w-was meant to do!…”

pathetic reasoning on your part as well as every other person that makes this argument.

This. It’s been like this for months now and there is just no excuse for the state of thief.

I’m looking forward to have an NPC that takes this class and converts it to a Revenant. I mean isn’t that what they do with broken items and such in the game? :o

Maybe for some laurels and gold sink? No? Anyone?

Let me review my statement of before!:

→ Daredevil Pistol/Pistol actually works quite well (even though it feels a bit lame to spam unload)

→ I think the melee + squishy part is the thing that makes thief feel weak:P

bliss.4305:

I’m looking forward to have an NPC that takes this class and converts it to a Revenant. I mean isn’t that what they do with broken items and such in the game? :o

Maybe for some laurels and gold sink? No? Anyone?

If Anet convert all my ascended gears into heavy I could even lvl up a new toon revenant. Revenant got all the things thief should have gotten long time ago

Gunlaugr.2716:

No buffs for thieves. Cut back on the power creep instead. Overall damage is out of hand. Once again..

Kevin,

Do you mind sharing your condition build?

Kolly.9872:

I’m just waiting for some dev to come around and hide this topic in the thief’s subforum.

And here we are

Kolly.9872:

Kolly.9872:

I’m just waiting for some dev to come around and hide this topic in the thief’s subforum.

And here we are

QUOTED FOR THE kittenING TRUTH

Exactly! They might as well rename Thief sub forum into “Trash” since that’s exactly what they’ve turned the class and sub forum into xD

FeelsAlright.5860:

Kolly.9872:

Kolly.9872:

I’m just waiting for some dev to come around and hide this topic in the thief’s subforum.

And here we are

QUOTED FOR THE kittenING TRUTH

Unfortunate truth…

So we’re remaking this thread in pvp just to sleight them right???

FeelsAlright.5860:

So we’re remaking this thread in pvp just to sleight them right???

Other ones always come anyway if you pay attention it’s just like conditions in PvE pre stack increase, they really just keep coming and definitely won’t stop soon.

Kolly.9872:

I’m just waiting for some dev to come around and hide this topic in the thief’s subforum.

Yeah…..

sigh

-_-

Base thief could use some work. However, I feel competitive with the daredevil. I think mostly, a few changes I would implement:

1) Dagger skill 4 applies 1 stack of torment for 3 seconds on each bounce.
2) Dagger skill 5 applied blind in an aoe radius.
3) Fix some useless traits in acro and shadow arts. These two trees need the most work.

Otherwise, I can’t think of much that would not require nerfing other aspects of the Thief that I really enjoy.

For the same initiative cost, CnD+BS will be replaced by Vault.

Faster execution without reliance on stealth and you can do 2 vaults in a row for a huge burst plus the damage from Bound.

I don’t know, but —- Thief may not be good at 1v1, but I’m pretty sure that they can be a good alternative to a Rampage Warrior with a bunker Guardian support.

Sagat.3285:

FeelsAlright.5860:

Kolly.9872:

Kolly.9872:

I’m just waiting for some dev to come around and hide this topic in the thief’s subforum.

And here we are

QUOTED FOR THE kittenING TRUTH

Unfortunate truth…

Maybe they made a program to detect a % of thief word in the whole thread and then it’s automatically moved. ( please dev, don’t quote me and tell me it’s true…)

Inb4 they start deleting every thief related thread….

Alleyviper.6081:

Kevin,

Do you mind sharing your condition build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lClOhdmCGOB8PhFqiy7C+gtrrnCgDYu67+wH-TpRAABA8AAEc/hoPBAkVGgjDBgHHBAA

There are a lot of changes that can be made. I’m still not sure on the best elite. However, I think this is a good starting point.

I’ve also been having a decent amount of success with standard, power s/d thief, using bound. Bound is very very strong, I almost never run out of evades even with that build. You do have to be very careful though, as if you do run into a situation where you can’t evade, you can die extremely fast with the power creep on other classes. Nevertheless, I am actually having a decent amount of success with it in 1v1’s, though it might just be that since ranked is banned right now, the unranked players are not the best. Dealing 3k damage on dodge, having an extra dodge, having 10% increased damage after dodge, and better condi removal is a huge buff for thief. The new heal is very strong in combination with 3k damage on your dodge, and in combination with signet of agility, means you almost never run out of dodges. You can’t imagine how annoying this is for your enemy to play against. I don’t understand how people are complaining so much, to be honest (I’m prepared for the incoming flame, about how I’m playing against idiots, haven’t played enough, etc., I don’t care, haha.).

I think making this kind of thread as an answer to a troll thread isn’t really smart. It doesn’t provide anything, and let’s face it, devs won’t react to a post just saying :
“buff please” without further explanation.

bliss.4305:

Exactly! They might as well rename Thief sub forum into “Trash” since that’s exactly what they’ve turned the class and sub forum into xD

Lol +1

Tabootrinket.2631:

I think making this kind of thread as an answer to a troll thread isn’t really smart. It doesn’t provide anything, and let’s face it, devs won’t react to a post just saying :
“buff please” without further explanation.

We are left with nothing but trolling.
Agree that we should give right feedbacks but devs should also stop trolling us and give us an experienced and dedicated dev that mains thief.
I agree also that thief right now seems to be the only class realy balanced in between a bunch of overpowered other classes. Devs realy went out of control with power creep this time, it looks like no one thought at balancing but just at buffing their respective class. And which is the only class that doesn’t have a dedicated dev?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

For the same initiative cost, CnD+BS will be replaced by Vault.

Faster execution without reliance on stealth and you can do 2 vaults in a row for a huge burst plus the damage from Bound.

I don’t know, but —- Thief may not be good at 1v1, but I’m pretty sure that they can be a good alternative to a Rampage Warrior with a bunker Guardian support.

Yeah, but rampage warrior is even more outdated for this meta as we are, so I don’t see the point.

As long as S/D isn’t a viable option this class will remain a generic passive stealthcamp rezbot.

It may have lacked burst damage and was subpar against D/P, but it also offered a different playstyle other than just +1 ing and decapping. Being able to 1v1 other classes on point was a playstyle that me and many others enjoyed over D/P, yet ANet had nothing better to do than just straight out delete this gamestyle & weaponset in favor of the set that was already dominating PvP.

But its all good guyz, thieves are in a great spot according to our Dev, I mean we got decaps and +1ing n kitten.

Nocta.5274:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

For the same initiative cost, CnD+BS will be replaced by Vault.

Faster execution without reliance on stealth and you can do 2 vaults in a row for a huge burst plus the damage from Bound.

I don’t know, but —- Thief may not be good at 1v1, but I’m pretty sure that they can be a good alternative to a Rampage Warrior with a bunker Guardian support.

Yeah, but rampage warrior is even more outdated for this meta as we are, so I don’t see the point.

It is pointless to those who are hopeless.

Tabootrinket.2631:

I think making this kind of thread as an answer to a troll thread isn’t really smart. It doesn’t provide anything, and let’s face it, devs won’t react to a post just saying :
“buff please” without further explanation.

Your response would be perfect if what you suggest hasn’t been constantly done already. Only thing left seems to be this it does remind me even more of prepatch necro forums.

Bug…

Message Body length must at least be 15.