Guild Wars 2

Hi – i’ll keep it very short

Haven’t played for 8 months-ish…used to be an S/D thief – we were always few and far between and sure no-one thought we were too overpowered, but i’ve heard even tho the 3 skill has been fixed…S/D is now nerfed even more? Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thanks!!

Nerfed even more? No, it’s still a very popular choice in spvp.

S/d is part of the meta in spvp now. go 10/30/0/0/30.
Mug (III)
Furious Retaliation (I), Practiced Tolerance (VI) , Executioner (XI I think)
Thrill of the Crime (V), Bountiful theft (VII), and Sleight of Hand (XII)

Boon steals ftw. I generally take Shadowstep, blindingpowder, refuge for utils.. can’t go wrong with blinding powder ever. Lyssa runes + basivenom is amazing. With the trickery line everytime you steal on a point you are granting 10s of Vigor, Swiftness, and Might + whatever 2 boons you just stole from your target every 21s.

Lux/Jhughes, thanks very much i’ll check it out!

no problem man! If you have any questions at all add me in game, Elandorr Nyhtt , I am happy to help a fellow theify

S/D is nowhere near as popular as any D/X set or S/P, but it’s still seen, certainly (wouldn’t call it meta though, especially since I hear that Sizer isn’t playing S/D any more). It’s a good weapon set with a slightly higher skill floor, but the learning curve and skill ceiling are both tremendous.

Some examples of trait setups:
10 30 0 30 0
10 30 0 0 30
0 30 0 30 10
10 0 0 30 30 (my creation. Nobody plays it apart from me, but it’s easily as effective as the other builds are IMO. Bunch of scrubs who haven’t analyzed the build- much less used it in even a single match- like to criticize me for it though. Whatever, y’know?)

Haha, respect for your individuality Arganthium – that’s what it’s all about innit!!

Jhughes – i’ll give you a shout in game next week when I get online! Thanks again

Arganthium.5638:

S/D is nowhere near as popular as any D/X set or S/P, but it’s still seen, certainly (wouldn’t call it meta though, especially since I hear that Sizer isn’t playing S/D any more). It’s a good weapon set with a slightly higher skill floor, but the learning curve and skill ceiling are both tremendous.

Some examples of trait setups:
10 30 0 30 0
10 30 0 0 30
0 30 0 30 10
10 0 0 30 30 (my creation. Nobody plays it apart from me, but it’s easily as effective as the other builds are IMO. Bunch of scrubs who haven’t analyzed the build- much less used it in even a single match- like to criticize me for it though. Whatever, y’know?)

10/30/0/30/0 S/D has a ridiculously low skill floor, I’d say slightly higher than S/P, but still really low.

10/30/0/0/30 S/D on the other hand has a much higher skill floor IMO.

10/0/0/30/30 is interesting IMO, but I’m not sure what sort of role it would have absolute advantage in over other trait setups. Perhaps maybe for bunking a point? I’d like to hear your opinion of it, as well as what sort of level of competition you play that trait setup at?

Additionaly, I’m curious as to what 1v1 metabuild matchups does that setup have advantage in, and which does it have disadvantage in?

That said, yes, S/D has recently “fallen out of favor” as the S/P does what S/D used to do, which was train and pressure the opponent’s backline, simply better. Thats not to say S/D isn’t still strong. I’d wager 10/30/0/30/0 S/D SB is still very viable, and incredibly annoying to play against, and still has very many good 1v1 matchups if you can play it well.

Arganthium.5638:

S/D is nowhere near as popular as any D/X set or S/P, but it’s still seen, certainly (wouldn’t call it meta though, especially since I hear that Sizer isn’t playing S/D any more). It’s a good weapon set with a slightly higher skill floor, but the learning curve and skill ceiling are both tremendous.

Some examples of trait setups:
10 30 0 30 0
10 30 0 0 30
0 30 0 30 10
10 0 0 30 30 (my creation. Nobody plays it apart from me, but it’s easily as effective as the other builds are IMO. Bunch of scrubs who haven’t analyzed the build- much less used it in even a single match- like to criticize me for it though. Whatever, y’know?)

Arganthium, as a thief who loves being stealthy I decided to go in acro for PvP, whilst looking for a build I stumbled upon yours. It is now my PvP build. Has been for about 2 months now. It is actually incredibly fun and has even taken out warriors who’ve invested nearly everything in survivability for a build that invests little into damage trait wise. So I too play your build, don’t get rash now.
What I love most about it is that I so far have never once ran out of initiative. The only thing the build falls short for is condition burst builds and it seems to be 1:1 with D/P burst 10/30/0/0/30 builds which really surprised me. So yeah Argy’s build is pretty legit, I suggest you guys check it out.

Until about 2 months ago S/D evade-spam was the go-to Thief build in sPvP (10/30/0/30/0) it got some minor nerfs but nothing huge.

It relies on the excessive stacking of evades to survive while still dealing decent pressure with auto-attack and Larcenous Strike. I really enjoyed the play-style in sPvP but in WvW…it’s more of a duel build than a roaming build.

What is the meta for PvE?

S/p & SB?
10/30/0/0/30?

Difinitus.5614:

What is the meta for PvE?

S/p & SB?
10/30/0/0/30?

PvE? PvE is all about damage. Nothing else matters. So 30/30/0/0/10 is the hardcore dungeon build. But really you can play just about anything.

Weapons depend on the situation but S/P is used most of the time.

Lets be honest here:

anything else than 10 30 0 0 30 S/P isn’t meta atm.
few play 10 30 0 0 30 D/P
even fewer play 10 30 0 30 0 S/D

S/D isn’t viable, because the meta is too tanky atm, S/P is the only bunkerbuster atm thats why it’s played in favour of S/D, also trickery tree > acro tree.

Also lol’d S/D being low skill floor, typical whine reply

Just try few of the mentioned builds in the mode you play and see what works for you. I find S/D in WvW still viable.

Reikou.7068:

Arganthium.5638:

S/D is nowhere near as popular as any D/X set or S/P, but it’s still seen, certainly (wouldn’t call it meta though, especially since I hear that Sizer isn’t playing S/D any more). It’s a good weapon set with a slightly higher skill floor, but the learning curve and skill ceiling are both tremendous.

Some examples of trait setups:
10 30 0 30 0
10 30 0 0 30
0 30 0 30 10
10 0 0 30 30 (my creation. Nobody plays it apart from me, but it’s easily as effective as the other builds are IMO. Bunch of scrubs who haven’t analyzed the build- much less used it in even a single match- like to criticize me for it though. Whatever, y’know?)

10/30/0/30/0 S/D has a ridiculously low skill floor, I’d say slightly higher than S/P, but still really low.

10/30/0/0/30 S/D on the other hand has a much higher skill floor IMO.

10/0/0/30/30 is interesting IMO, but I’m not sure what sort of role it would have absolute advantage in over other trait setups. Perhaps maybe for bunking a point? I’d like to hear your opinion of it, as well as what sort of level of competition you play that trait setup at?

Additionaly, I’m curious as to what 1v1 metabuild matchups does that setup have advantage in, and which does it have disadvantage in?

That said, yes, S/D has recently “fallen out of favor” as the S/P does what S/D used to do, which was train and pressure the opponent’s backline, simply better. Thats not to say S/D isn’t still strong. I’d wager 10/30/0/30/0 S/D SB is still very viable, and incredibly annoying to play against, and still has very many good 1v1 matchups if you can play it well.

Personally, I play 10 0 0 30 30 in every game mode (though it’s certainly better in WvW and sPvP than it is in PvE). The setup might be decent for bunking a point (it certainly would if you run a defensive/tanky amulet), but IMO the idea that it’s a defensive trait setup is a somewhat superficial view. First of all, Zerker amulet gives the build (and, for that matter, builds in general) its punch. Furthermore, however, whatever damage the build loses from not taking 30 into CS is made up for with initiative, giving me more range of flexibility and mobility that I can take into battle, which, combined with Lead Attacks, gives the build a lot more damage than might otherwise appear. The build also, of course, gets a fair bit of healing from AR.

As for match ups, the build really has the same match ups as the other S/D builds. Personally, I can beat any build, at least, on a good day, anyways.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Arganthium.5638:

S/D is nowhere near as popular as any D/X set or S/P, but it’s still seen, certainly (wouldn’t call it meta though, especially since I hear that Sizer isn’t playing S/D any more). It’s a good weapon set with a slightly higher skill floor, but the learning curve and skill ceiling are both tremendous.

Some examples of trait setups:
10 30 0 30 0
10 30 0 0 30
0 30 0 30 10
10 0 0 30 30 (my creation. Nobody plays it apart from me, but it’s easily as effective as the other builds are IMO. Bunch of scrubs who haven’t analyzed the build- much less used it in even a single match- like to criticize me for it though. Whatever, y’know?)

Arganthium, as a thief who loves being stealthy I decided to go in acro for PvP, whilst looking for a build I stumbled upon yours. It is now my PvP build. Has been for about 2 months now. It is actually incredibly fun and has even taken out warriors who’ve invested nearly everything in survivability for a build that invests little into damage trait wise. So I too play your build, don’t get rash now.
What I love most about it is that I so far have never once ran out of initiative. The only thing the build falls short for is condition burst builds and it seems to be 1:1 with D/P burst 10/30/0/0/30 builds which really surprised me. So yeah Argy’s build is pretty legit, I suggest you guys check it out.

D’aww, you make me blush. c’:

Arganthium.5638:

Personally, I play 10 0 0 30 30 in every game mode (though it’s certainly better in WvW and sPvP than it is in PvE). The setup might be decent for bunking a point (it certainly would if you run a defensive/tanky amulet), but IMO the idea that it’s a defensive trait setup is a somewhat superficial view. First of all, Zerker amulet gives the build (and, for that matter, builds in general) its punch. Furthermore, however, whatever damage the build loses from not taking 30 into CS is made up for with initiative, giving me more range of flexibility and mobility that I can take into battle, which, combined with Lead Attacks, gives the build a lot more damage than might otherwise appear. The build also, of course, gets a fair bit of healing from AR.

As for match ups, the build really has the same match ups as the other S/D builds. Personally, I can beat any build, at least, on a good day, anyways.

I’m usually talking from a tPvP point of view, and I’m assuming you run S/D SB with that.

S/D SB with 10/30/0/30/0 already has plenty of initiative gain to keep up what it has to do, and with SB3, and dodging can bunker a point for a good 10’ish seconds if necessary, even with berserker amulet. The build you use 10/0/0/30/30 has even more initiative gain, and even more vigor. Really the only reason that I can see that this build has advantage over other meta thief builds in tPvP would be to thief bunker.

But then again, I’m probably looking at it wrong. I’m genuinely curious as to how you play the build in tPvP, and how it compares with 10/30/0/30/0 S/D SB Play, or even 10/30/0/0/30 S/D SB Play, and what it brings to a team that is objectively better than 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30 S/D.

I wanna try the thief after a 8 month hiatus i.e Level in PvE never played it again.

Any recommendations for PvP in terms of tips, setups or just guides.

hello guys, every time I learn a lot by reading your posts by this cose.Detto wanted to tell you that I think the difference between (10/30/0/30/0) and / or (10/0/0/30/30) is definitely the damage in the first, and the continuity in the second, but what really differentiates them is the player and his abilities. I’ve played so far that proposed by Arganthium, with whom he fell in love with m s / d but I’ve noticed that if you have the accessories and armor Soldier valkirya perhaps it is cheaper to build Reikou, because it has a longer life and greater harm to afford to finish in less time than their opponents.

Nerone.1724:

hello guys, every time I learn a lot by reading your posts by this cose.Detto wanted to tell you that I think the difference between (10/30/0/30/0) and / or (10/0/0/30/30) is definitely the damage in the first, and the continuity in the second, but what really differentiates them is the player and his abilities. I’ve played so far that proposed by Arganthium, with whom he fell in love with m s / d but I’ve noticed that if you have the accessories and armor Soldier valkirya perhaps it is cheaper to build Reikou, because it has a longer life and greater harm to afford to finish in less time than their opponents.

I don’t think its a “cheaper” build or whatever, but I’m just trying to figure out what exactly it brings to the table for a team that 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30 cannot already do equal or better, and the only thing that I can think of is it can bunker better than the other thief builds.

I would put 15 in the bottom line for the extra initiative.

Reikou.7068:

Arganthium.5638:

Personally, I play 10 0 0 30 30 in every game mode (though it’s certainly better in WvW and sPvP than it is in PvE). The setup might be decent for bunking a point (it certainly would if you run a defensive/tanky amulet), but IMO the idea that it’s a defensive trait setup is a somewhat superficial view. First of all, Zerker amulet gives the build (and, for that matter, builds in general) its punch. Furthermore, however, whatever damage the build loses from not taking 30 into CS is made up for with initiative, giving me more range of flexibility and mobility that I can take into battle, which, combined with Lead Attacks, gives the build a lot more damage than might otherwise appear. The build also, of course, gets a fair bit of healing from AR.

As for match ups, the build really has the same match ups as the other S/D builds. Personally, I can beat any build, at least, on a good day, anyways.

I’m usually talking from a tPvP point of view, and I’m assuming you run S/D SB with that.

S/D SB with 10/30/0/30/0 already has plenty of initiative gain to keep up what it has to do, and with SB3, and dodging can bunker a point for a good 10’ish seconds if necessary, even with berserker amulet. The build you use 10/0/0/30/30 has even more initiative gain, and even more vigor. Really the only reason that I can see that this build has advantage over other meta thief builds in tPvP would be to thief bunker.

But then again, I’m probably looking at it wrong. I’m genuinely curious as to how you play the build in tPvP, and how it compares with 10/30/0/30/0 S/D SB Play, or even 10/30/0/0/30 S/D SB Play, and what it brings to a team that is objectively better than 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30 S/D.

Yes, I run SB with the build.

Now, to be frank, damage-wise, I do not think that the build deals any more damage than either of the other two builds. My reasoning is that the increased initiative combined with Assassin’s Reward allows for the build to play more of a bruiser than a burster play style, but a bruiser that deals enough damage to do the same amount of damage in the long run that the other S/D builds deal (not to imply that 10 30 0 0 30 and 10 30 0 30 0 are “burst” builds, per se, but they’re certainly more bursty than 10 0 0 30 30 is, for obvious reasons).

Furthermore, from what I’ve seen from watching other S/D players, it would seem that, while they have enough initiative for their needs, they have to be weary of falling under 6 initiative, after which First Strikes is turned off, and they also have to be extremely selective about how they use their initiative, too. On the other hand, 10 0 0 30 30 offers a much more generous amount of initiative for the player to utilize, but perhaps the most important part of that fact is that it’s okay for the player not to use the initiative, because of Lead Attacks, which doesn’t have some kind of threshold requirement like First Strikes does.

So, on a superficial level, that’s the difference I see. However, the implications of these differences is extremely significant. For example, a bruiser is better at absorbing damage than a burster is (and any S/D player will have to absorb damage against proper play), which means that there’s less damage dealt to your teammates. Furthermore, because bruisers can absorb more damage, they’re somewhat more forgiving in that a single mistake won’t kill you instantly (not all the time, anyways). Plus, if 10 0 0 30 30 is really able to absorb damage better than the other S/D builds, then it would, logically, be better at holding points 1v1. Also, because there’s more initiative to draw from, there’s more mobility both inside and outside of battle, via skills like Infi Strike/Return and Infi Arrow.

Anyways, that’s just my take on it. In practicality, that may not all be completely true, but I’m just giving you the theoretical basis for my reasoning. The 30 CS builds, for instance, might deal slightly more damage, but personally I’m okay with that in exchange for the benefits that the 30 Acro and Trix give.

PS Nerone, I’ll respond to your message as soon as possible. I was recently banned for three weeks, so I can’t currently send messages to other forum users. -_-

Thanks for all your replies guys, really eager to get back playing after such a long time now.

Arganthium, i understand when people want to keep their original/self-designed builds under wraps a bit but would you be able to give me any indication of the exact traits you use in 10,0,0,30,30 build? It’s so different to anything I’ve played with S/D & SB before – feel like due to being so rusty at the moment it’s a good time to try some fresh styles of play.

Thanks

t thank Arganthium. the appearance yuo opinion.

Playing around with the Build Editor on that…sounds extremely tricksy and dodge/evade heavy. Still, giving up Executioner is going to really hurt, haha.

Arganthium.5638:

Yes, I run SB with the build.

Now, to be frank, damage-wise, I do not think that the build deals any more damage than either of the other two builds. My reasoning is that the increased initiative combined with Assassin’s Reward allows for the build to play more of a bruiser than a burster play style, but a bruiser that deals enough damage to do the same amount of damage in the long run that the other S/D builds deal (not to imply that 10 30 0 0 30 and 10 30 0 30 0 are “burst” builds, per se, but they’re certainly more bursty than 10 0 0 30 30 is, for obvious reasons).

Furthermore, from what I’ve seen from watching other S/D players, it would seem that, while they have enough initiative for their needs, they have to be weary of falling under 6 initiative, after which First Strikes is turned off, and they also have to be extremely selective about how they use their initiative, too. On the other hand, 10 0 0 30 30 offers a much more generous amount of initiative for the player to utilize, but perhaps the most important part of that fact is that it’s okay for the player not to use the initiative, because of Lead Attacks, which doesn’t have some kind of threshold requirement like First Strikes does.

So, on a superficial level, that’s the difference I see. However, the implications of these differences is extremely significant. For example, a bruiser is better at absorbing damage than a burster is (and any S/D player will have to absorb damage against proper play), which means that there’s less damage dealt to your teammates. Furthermore, because bruisers can absorb more damage, they’re somewhat more forgiving in that a single mistake won’t kill you instantly (not all the time, anyways). Plus, if 10 0 0 30 30 is really able to absorb damage better than the other S/D builds, then it would, logically, be better at holding points 1v1. Also, because there’s more initiative to draw from, there’s more mobility both inside and outside of battle, via skills like Infi Strike/Return and Infi Arrow.

Anyways, that’s just my take on it. In practicality, that may not all be completely true, but I’m just giving you the theoretical basis for my reasoning. The 30 CS builds, for instance, might deal slightly more damage, but personally I’m okay with that in exchange for the benefits that the 30 Acro and Trix give.

PS Nerone, I’ll respond to your message as soon as possible. I was recently banned for three weeks, so I can’t currently send messages to other forum users. -_-

Thank you for the writeup.

So I am right in saying that the advantage of this build is basically the ability to bunker a point better than the other meta trait setups.

I agree that this setup is indeed a very “bruisery” type setup. However, this leads me to another question. What advantage does this build have over say a Warrior, the current meta bruiser, in a team, and why would/should a team take a 10/0/0/30/30 thief over say a 10/0/30/0/30 hambow warrior, or 15/0/25/0/30 Axe Warrior? The ability to strip boons is nice, but I get the feeling it lacks in all other aspects that can be expected from a warrior for the bruiser type role.

Lack of proper stability for resses/stomps is also not ideal, and I am not sure how much of a beating it can take if the bunker needs to step off point for a second.

Reikou.7068:

Thank you for the writeup.

So I am right in saying that the advantage of this build is basically the ability to bunker a point better than the other meta trait setups.

I agree that this setup is indeed a very “bruisery” type setup. However, this leads me to another question. What advantage does this build have over say a Warrior, the current meta bruiser, in a team, and why would/should a team take a 10/0/0/30/30 thief over say a 10/0/30/0/30 hambow warrior, or 15/0/25/0/30 Axe Warrior? The ability to strip boons is nice, but I get the feeling it lacks in all other aspects that can be expected from a warrior for the bruiser type role.

Lack of proper stability for resses/stomps is also not ideal, and I am not sure how much of a beating it can take if the bunker needs to step off point for a second.

To be completely honest, I don’t think that there’s any (or much) reason to run a 10 0 0 30 30 thief over a warrior. Hell, I don’t even think that there’s a good reason to run any S/D thief in place of a warrior, and I think that D/P and S/P are well on their way to going out the window and replaced by warrior builds or some other class’s builds. Today, I think that S/D is a great fun build, but against proper play it fails because of some theoretical disadvantage if your opponent plays a good build. The only thing that thief has that some warriors don’t is mobility (which is great for team fighting a node decapping), but some warriors already have as much if not more mobility than thieves anyways.

Anyways, that’s about as optimistic as I can be.

GorgeousDave.9608:

Thanks for all your replies guys, really eager to get back playing after such a long time now.

Arganthium, i understand when people want to keep their original/self-designed builds under wraps a bit but would you be able to give me any indication of the exact traits you use in 10,0,0,30,30 build? It’s so different to anything I’ve played with S/D & SB before – feel like due to being so rusty at the moment it’s a good time to try some fresh styles of play.

Thanks

I have a link to my current build in the “Guide to Thief Guides” stickied on this forum.

You can also swap AR for Quick Pockets and the run two S/D sets, or trade out Hastened Replenishment for Sleight of Hand.

Arganthium.5638:

To be completely honest, I don’t think that there’s any (or much) reason to run a 10 0 0 30 30 thief over a warrior. Hell, I don’t even think that there’s a good reason to run any S/D thief in place of a warrior, and I think that D/P and S/P are well on their way to going out the window and replaced by warrior builds or some other class’s builds. Today, I think that S/D is a great fun build, but against proper play it fails because of some theoretical disadvantage if your opponent plays a good build. The only thing that thief has that some warriors don’t is mobility (which is great for team fighting a node decapping), but some warriors already have as much if not more mobility than thieves anyways.

Anyways, that’s about as optimistic as I can be.

Alright. I would personally disagree with thieves being on the way out, especially with them being the way they are atm. Thieves single handedly eliminate Berserker Elementalists and Mesmers from the Meta. However we’ll need to see what happens when balance patch comes.