Guild Wars 2

This is a video circulating on the warrior forums which shows a full glass canon warrior hitting with the rifle’s kill shot skill over 20k. Since it does piercing damage, at one point he does around 60k damage to three targets. I’m not saying it’s happening often, but it shouldn’t happen at all.

And yet this seems perfectly normal to those folks, most who come crying nerfs in this forum. And guess what, the justification for that is: he’s a glass cannon!, you can dodge!, it only works on other glass canons!, just watch out for him when he comes!
Sounds familiar?

I’m just pointing this out in the light of the upcoming nerfs for the thief because I simply cannot understand how one gimmicky build is accepted but another one is not. What do they expect from the thief, just troll with stealth? If warrior is all about damage (and tankiness) what is thief’s role then?

Apparently from what I’ve read this is a bug. It’s not supposed to deal that much damage.

Not a bug to my knowledge. I think you’re thinking of bladetrail babelfish.

1. Bug

2. He is dead afterwards, glass thieves only die after they get outskilled if they are terrible enough to mess up stealth and not shortbow out fast enough

From what I read it’s a bug with piercing that allows it to deal 20k crits. I’ve heard warriors mention it in their forums and there’s reference of it in the vid comments.

whats funny is when this is reflected back at the warrior. O the good times.

azuzephyr.7280:

1. Bug

2. He is dead afterwards, glass thieves only die after they get outskilled if they are terrible enough to mess up stealth and not shortbow out fast enough

he still has 16k hp, and has heavy armor. The glass canon thief is definitely squishier.

And a warrior has pretty good mobility with the greatsword. Considering he shoots from 1200 range, he has a good chance of getting away if he wants.

Still I don’t think one burst is better or worst than the other, they are the same and have a lot of disadvantages, but SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME.

supergica.8652:

azuzephyr.7280:

1. Bug

2. He is dead afterwards, glass thieves only die after they get outskilled if they are terrible enough to mess up stealth and not shortbow out fast enough

he still has 16k hp, and has heavy armor. The glass canon thief is definitely squishier.

And a warrior has pretty good mobility with the greatsword. Considering he shoots from 1200 range, he has a good chance of getting away if he wants.

Still I don’t think one burst is better or worst than the other, they are the same and have a lot of disadvantages, but SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME.

sorry but:
1- he has at least 18k hp not 16 … in the video that warrior has around 20k if i remember right
2- kill shot (that 20k dmg skill) has 1500 range – like a traited ranger – not 1200.

@Azuzephyr: he can oneshot 3ppl every 10 seconds from the wall … how can you defend that? he is not dead afterwars since he is inside the keep.

as far as i know, the bug with this is that the trait for +12% damage at full adrenaline is reapplied for every pierce – so on 3rd hit it would be 36% or 40.5% bonus damage (not
sure if additive or multiplicative.) Either way, a lot more than intended.

He has 18372 HP before buffs, Thief has 10805 base + stealth skills which make up for that massive survivability gap.

IMHO backstab is fine, mug+cnd instant spike is too high.

yertle.5837:

as far as i know, the bug with this is that the trait for +12% damage at full adrenaline is reapplied for every pierce – so on 3rd hit it would be 36% or 40.5% bonus damage (not
sure if additive or multiplicative.) Either way, a lot more than intended.

He has 18372 HP before buffs, Thief has 10805 base + stealth skills which make up for that massive survivability gap.

IMHO backstab is fine, mug+cnd instant spike is too high.

So stealth is worth 8k HP now?

If i don’t want to play a BS glass cannon stealth Thief, can i trade my not used stealth options for 8k HP then?
No?

Well, i guess Thieves have to stick to stealthy glass cannons, using mug+cnd, then.

Also it’s not like Warriors have absolutely no defense besides the higher HP and Armor class.

But sure, let’s nerf Thieves, they have stealth, which apparently makes up for everything.

Well the general consensus amongst the other professions is that thief should probably do no damage at all. The fact that he has a few seconds of stealth every now and then is more than enough to compensate for damage, low hp, low support, or lack of any other defense.

Don’t worry, nothing will be done about the warrior, the masses don’t complain about it. The content of the masses > unbalanced professions.

WTT stealth for support skills (not lol poison share) and health…but lets face it. If we didn’t have stealth we would still be op cuz we gots a bow that does 200k damage per hit when firing into a zerg of 50 people standing still.

Haha its nice. Everybody cry, that thief has super mega OP backstab and some seconds of stealth and 20k+ damage from warriors from huge range is ok. Its really interesting. Here you can see what are these crying girls think with and its not brain.

Well since they have made no mention of it being an issue that warriors can do that damage at that range, then they must have no problem with giving us a sniper rifle with the same or more damage at the same range. Anything else would make them a hypocrit

[Berserker’s Power] is bugged, it grants some abilities 12% more damage each time they hit an additional foe. So, if you e.g. hit 3 foes with Killing Shot the first one will suffer 112% of the normal damage (intended), the second ~125% and the third ~140% (not intended). That’s also the reason why you see 20k-40k Bladetrails sometimes.

Also note that all those insane damage numbers were against up-leveled players against which Backstab would also have dealt ~20k damage, too. Look at ~4:30 when he fights an actual level 80 Ele; suddenly those 20k Kill Shots turn into a 9k Kill Shot.

edit:
It’s even more bugged than I though, it deals about +23% for each pierce.

DesertRose.2031:

Also note that all those insane damage numbers were against up-leveled players against which Backstab would also have dealt ~20k damage, too. Look at ~4:30 when he fights an actual level 80 Ele; suddenly those 20k Kill Shots turn into a 9k Kill Shot.

Yes, I´m aware of it, but try to play the backstab GC build in WvW and be useful to your server, killing stragglers won´t do any good for your server, so the kill shot is still much better option (you can shoot from walls and up to them, but how can you backstab on a siege defense? If you jump down with GC build, you get killed in the matter of seconds, if you´re superlucky).

STRanger.5120:

Yes, I´m aware of it, but try to play the backstab GC build in WvW and be useful to your server, killing stragglers won´t do any good for your server, so the kill shot is still much better option (you can shoot from walls and up to them, but how can you backstab on a siege defense? If you jump down with GC build, you get killed in the matter of seconds, if you´re superlucky).

Use Cluster Bomb then; sure, it has only 1200 range but on a plus side ~12k AoE damage. If they run out of the AoE before it hits let it explode sooner, if you’re lucky you might still hit a few of those players for ~4k.

DesertRose.2031:

Use Cluster Bomb then; sure, it has only 1200 range but on a plus side ~12k AoE damage. If they run out of the AoE before it hits let it explode sooner, if you’re lucky you might still hit a few of those players for ~4k.

Cluster bomb is not even nearly comparable to kill shot, even without a bugged dmg. the only advantage to Cluster is that it can´t be reflected back, but who cares if anybody who does pay even little attention gets a big red circle warning, right?
Detonate help to hit sometimes, but it hardly endanger anyone. Also I have quite hard time to believe the 12K hit with cluster, the biggest hit I ever saw with this skill was 9k, against a non-80 character….

Be interesting to float this by the warrior thread and see what they say. At this point if we go on another thread and massive QQ we’ll be doing it because it was done to us.

bow.6179:

Be interesting to float this by the warrior thread and see what they say. At this point if we go on another thread and massive QQ we’ll be doing it because it was done to us.

For clarification, I´m not complaining about kill shot being OP or something, I´m just comparing our abilities with other classes.
I still believe that the game is impossible to balance before class/mechanics bugfixes and any nerfing/buffing now will only destroy the intended mechanics (look how Eles got hit by the BWE nerf… with their weirdly designed traits and bugs all over the place).

-Class is visible at all times
-Can’t move while casting
-3second cast timer
-can’t be chained by to back to back(takes time to build up to being able to fire off that shot that may or may not hit
-notice it’s only being used in zerg on zerg battles, where players are just running around like chickens with there heads cut off, worthless in the small scale fights

testpig.5018:

-Can’t move while casting
-3second cast timer
-can’t be chained by to back to back(takes time to build up to being able to fire off that shot that may or may not hit
-notice it’s only being used in zerg on zerg battles, where players are just running around like chickens with there heads cut off, worthless in the small scale fights

Where did you get the 3 second cast timer? This is not WoW fireball, dude Kill shot has 1,75 sec cast.
Also with the right build and some utilities, you´re able to fire kill shot practically on CD (10 secs) – GC backstab Thief can never do that with those 45 secs CDs.
Of course it is used only in zerg battles (obvious animation), but that´s still a situation where you actually help your server, on the other side, backstab GC build is unusable in server-helping situations (if you manage to down someone, you can´t finish him because of the other ppl – supposed they are not idiots).

testpig.5018:

-Class is visible at all times
-Can’t move while casting
-3second cast timer
-can’t be chained by to back to back(takes time to build up to being able to fire off that shot that may or may not hit
-notice it’s only being used in zerg on zerg battles, where players are just running around like chickens with there heads cut off, worthless in the small scale fights

You can’t move with Pistol Whip either, too bad it doesn’t do damage now (apparently it did too much damage!), even if you move away from kill shot it can still hit you from 1500 range!

Actually it has a 1 3/4 second cast time, not 3 seconds, and 0.87 seconds with quickness!

Yes it can, you can get it to 8 second recast, use your abilities to get instant adrenaline back, and fire it, 3 seconds later, fire it again. (especially with precision signet, rifle volley gives you half your adrenaline back!)

I use it in SPVP all the time for 10-11k Critical hits, its funny because channeled abilities “Ignore Stealth”… “LolThieves.”

If you think your going to miss? fear not! just stand back up after he wastes his dodges and wait 1 second to use the ability again! (your adrenaline isn’t taken when you use the skill like you use initiative.)

testpig.5018:

-3second cast timer

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot
with Frenzy 0.9 sec

STRanger.5120:

I still believe that the game is impossible to balance before class/mechanics bugfixes and any nerfing/buffing now will only destroy the intended mechanics.

You don’t need to have a bug-free game to realize that one character having an attack or series of attacks which are not avoidable on reflex and do enough damage to kill a light-armored character instantly, severely damage a medium-armored character and damage a heavy-armored character by 50%+ of their total HPs is not balanced.

DesertRose.2031:

which are not avoidable

This isn´t true, are you aware of that? If not, then ask some experienced players how to do it. Thanks for your contribution.

Honestly, Kill Shot does not even take up resources if you miss the attack or its blocked or dodged or you quit channeling, it just puts on a low CD and you can use it again.

Daendur.2357:

@Azuzephyr: he can oneshot 3ppl every 10 seconds from the wall … how can you defend that? he is not dead afterwars since he is inside the keep.

Even if in the heat of battle you had 0 endurance = Literally backpeddle away from it, or since this is the thief forum, stealth and move out. If you want to get classy then time it with deathblossom.

Yes there’ll be times when your eye doesn’t catch him and he snipes you before someone lands an aoe on the wall to KO him, that’s a pretty different setup from thieves who can guarantee that you will never see them coming and then remove the opportunity for retaliation if they start to mess it up.

Ironic that people are saying that a thief can make sure your eye doesn’t catch him. Ignoring rendering issues, because bugs are bugs, and should be fixed, the thief actually HAS to make his presence known to make these steal+cloak and stab combos by meleeing the opponent, whereas a warrior could be charging his killshot outside your FoV the entire time, and you would never know.

A warrior also can do it from a range at which he can more reliably escape, especially considering he’s probably got a good 25 seconds of swiftness left on signit of rage.

Here is a lesson in logic. Let’s say we have two abilities: Ability A and ability B. There are four possibilities.

Both A and B are not overpowered.
A is overpowered, but B is not overpowered.
B is overpowered, but A is not overpowered.
Both A and B are overpowered.

Question: If B is overpowered, does that mean A is not?

Oozo.7856:

Here is a lesson in logic. Let’s say we have two abilities: Ability A and ability B. There are four possibilities.

Both A and B are not overpowered.
A is overpowered, but B is not overpowered.
B is overpowered, but A is not overpowered.
Both A and B are overpowered.

Question: If B is overpowered, does that mean A is not?

The thing is though that the warrior forums aren’t being bombared with nerf requests. You barely see actual discussion of the thief in here, and when you do, its usually derailed by a comment like “reroll to a class that takes effort”, or “F1, 2, 2, 2”

The thing is though that the warrior forums aren’t being bombared with nerf requests. You barely see actual discussion of the thief in here, and when you do, its usually derailed by a comment like “reroll to a class that takes effort”, or “F1, 2, 2, 2”

Understood. Just for the record, the damage he is doing in that movie with killshot is far more gamebreaking than backstab build thieves. In fact, I think 11115 pistol/dagger thieves are far more of an issue than dagger/dagger thieves.

The reasons why there haven’t been a ton of calls for nerfs is that killshot damage is that a lot of people probably haven’t been hit with it. That will change, of course now that people know about it. A lot of people have been backstabbed, hence more complaints.

Oozo.7856:

The thing is though that the warrior forums aren’t being bombared with nerf requests. You barely see actual discussion of the thief in here, and when you do, its usually derailed by a comment like “reroll to a class that takes effort”, or “F1, 2, 2, 2”

Understood. Just for the record, the damage he is doing in that movie with killshot is far more gamebreaking than backstab build thieves. In fact, I think 11115 pistol/dagger thieves are far more of an issue than dagger/dagger thieves.

The reasons why there haven’t been a ton of calls for nerfs that that killshot damage is that a lot of people probably haven’t been hit with it. That will change, of course know that people know about it. A lot of people have been backstabbed, hence more complaints.

That will change when they nerf thief.

Daecollo.9578:

Oozo.7856:

The thing is though that the warrior forums aren’t being bombared with nerf requests. You barely see actual discussion of the thief in here, and when you do, its usually derailed by a comment like “reroll to a class that takes effort”, or “F1, 2, 2, 2”

Understood. Just for the record, the damage he is doing in that movie with killshot is far more gamebreaking than backstab build thieves. In fact, I think 11115 pistol/dagger thieves are far more of an issue than dagger/dagger thieves.

The reasons why there haven’t been a ton of calls for nerfs that that killshot damage is that a lot of people probably haven’t been hit with it. That will change, of course know that people know about it. A lot of people have been backstabbed, hence more complaints.

That will change when they nerf thief.

Hasn’t with the past 4 nerfs

i am so sick because of so many complaints about the thief class, that i dont play too much, but i do troll the forums instead
it seems to me that EVERY patch is a ninja patch for a thief to nerf something.
for a-net: when this nerf spin from class to class will ever stop ???

Not this again, there was just another thread about this the other day where a thief was trying to justify the current OPness because thieves aren’t as OP as rifle warriors. Newsflash, rifle warriors need fixed as well. 20k+ bursts, be it from a single shot at 1500 yards or a Mug+C&D+Backstab+HS combo, are not okay. The burst in this game needs brought down and once it is down we can actually have fights that last longer than 5 seconds. With longer fights we can get a better sense of balance.

Kill shot has a base power of 792 at max adrenaline. Backstab has a base power of 806 from behind. So no, its not OP when working properly, neither is a lone backstab. Although it is a ranged bs, the 1.75cast and having to gather adrenaline make up for that (imo). As others stated, its the bs combo that’s OP, not backstab.
Also, to a glass cannon, stealth and mobility definitely cover 8k hp and the armor difference.
Wars have some very OP bugs that need fixing…

Navzar.2938:

Kill shot has a base power of 792 at max adrenaline. Backstab has a base power of 806 from behind. So no, its not OP when working properly. Although it is a ranged bs, the 1.75cast and having to gather adrenaline make up for that (imo). As others stated, its the bs combo that’s OP, not backstab.
Also, to a glass cannon, stealth and mobility definitely cover 8k hp and the armor difference.

792 is increased by 3% if you have it traited (which you will if you use rifles for 30% critical damage bonus..), which is 815 damage, 9 more damage then backstab.

There are many ways to get your adrenaline back instantly.

Daecollo.9578:

792 is increased by 3% if you have it traited (which you will if you use rifles for 30% critical damage bonus..), which is 815 damage, 9 more damage then backstab.

There are many ways to get your adrenaline back instantly.

Because that 9 makes such a difference… but since we’re at this.

Thief has many % damage increases too, 10% while enemy suffers from conditions, 5% extra from daggers 10% with 6+ initiative, and maybe 5% are all used in the same bs build, for a base total of 30%., or 50% while under 50% hp (but that’s only for half a kill if they don’t heal. So averages 40% I guess.

War: 12% at full adren (not sure if its calculated before or after the burst reduces the bar), 10% while enemy is bleeding, 4.4 from stick and move, 0-30% from trait line for bursts. However, you can’t use all that at the same time, you’ll have to give up something. Best possible would be extra 52%, but you’ll lose out on about 200 power.

So yeah, they’re still about the same damage wise.

Navzar.2938:

Daecollo.9578:

792 is increased by 3% if you have it traited (which you will if you use rifles for 30% critical damage bonus..), which is 815 damage, 9 more damage then backstab.

There are many ways to get your adrenaline back instantly.

Because that 9 makes such a difference… but since we’re at this.

Thief has many % damage increases too, 10% while enemy suffers from conditions, 5% extra from daggers 10% with 6+ initiative, and maybe 5% are all used in the same bs build, for a base total of 30%., or 50% while under 50% hp (but that’s only for half a kill if they don’t heal. So averages 40% I guess.

War: 12% at full adren (not sure if its calculated before or after the burst reduces the bar), 10% while enemy is bleeding, 4.4 from stick and move, 0-30% from trait line for bursts. However, you can’t use all that at the same time, you’ll have to give up something. Best possible would be extra 52%, but you’ll lose out on about 200 power.

So yeah, they’re still about the same damage wise.

Not true, they have a 9% Adrenaline Critical chance+ 40 precision per unused signet, +20% critical chance (forever fury), about 35% more critical chance. ((Critical chance is just as important as damage, if not moreso because it magnifies the value of power.))

If your using a greatsword you can get another 10% damage bonus on top of that and 10% more damage if your endurance is not full.

“10% with 6+ initiative” we are almost never over 6+ initative, we are a spammy class and do not rely a lot on such, but back stabs benefit from this."

Thieves can only get fury about 20% of the time, which sucks when you look at our weapon sets like S/P, S/D, which is why nobody uses them.

Also, the Greatsword has a 10% higher base damage then daggers, not to mention gaining might every critical.

Wow if you’re going to be so nit picky, then bs has 100% crit chance from stealth. You will have the 6+ initiative on you’re initial backstab.
Daggers may have lower damage, but they can use two sigils to make up for it (like 5% extra damage and 30% lightning strike on crit).
And lastly, we’re not talking about GS, we’re talking about rifle’s kill shot.

I’m with OP.

It’s one of those things (liek thieves) which might not be so bad in the 5v5 format, or even UP in 5v5 format, but in WvW it just simply has no place in the game. [Just like permastealth, backstab build, etc]

You don’t see it coming, due to having many enemies on your screen, and you can’t do anything about it. The damage is a lot higher than the 5v5 format too due to orb and pve buffs.

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Mosharn.8357:

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Perma Swiftness. (SoR) – Super movement skill. (33% is faster then 25% thief has…)

1h Sword Leap – Super movement skill. (low CD)

Warhorn Swiftness/Vigor buff. – Super movement skill. (and movement condition cures!)

You can’t dodge a killshot, because if you dodge it its CD doesn’t go on cooldown and it comes right back up, you also don’t waste adrenaline for using this attack unless it hits…

If you see the target about to dodge, you can move forward, breaking the channal and kill shot again, you can also do that and use berserker stance to make the channal time 0.80 seconds.

And you can stand at 1500 to kill shot, in the chaos of battle thats VERY far away… (remember, backstab does less damage if your traited for burst damage, AND you have to be at 130 range, AND you have to be behind the target…)

YOU CAN ALSO immobilize the target so he can’t dodge, then killshot.

“BS theres little to no time to react.” – A rumor, there is plenty of time to react and press a stun break, you can also trait so if your about to die you can use an emergency. (every class has access to these traits…)

EVERYONE is going to complain about thiefs. most theifs just outclass everyone in how they play. if you people were really smart you would pop smoke screen as soon as we steath cause 90% of theifs are going to go straight for the backstab. problem solved.

Daecollo.9578:

Mosharn.8357:

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Perma Swiftness. (SoR) – Super movement skill. (33% is faster then 25% thief has…)

1h Sword Leap – Super movement skill. (low CD)

Warhorn Swiftness/Vigor buff. – Super movement skill. (and movement condition cures!)

You can’t dodge a killshot, because if you dodge it its CD doesn’t go on cooldown and it comes right back up, you also don’t waste adrenaline for using this attack unless it hits…

If you see the target about to dodge, you can move forward, breaking the channal and kill shot again, you can also do that and use berserker stance to make the channal time 0.80 seconds.

And you can stand at 1500 to kill shot, in the chaos of battle thats VERY far away… (remember, backstab does less damage if your traited for burst damage, AND you have to be at 130 range, AND you have to be behind the target…)

YOU CAN ALSO immobilize the target so he can’t dodge, then killshot.

“BS theres little to no time to react.” – A rumor, there is plenty of time to react and press a stun break, you can also trait so if your about to die you can use an emergency. (every class has access to these traits…)

Oh were going to play the perma swift card ok.
Thief:
5 skill on bow and your out of there. Dodge for swiftness then heartseeker out of there.
Almost all weps have shadow step.

So we got that out the way now stealth
Perma stealth to your hearts desire while hauling kitten and never being seen.
Failed your bs combo? Np keep heartseekin till target dies.

Leave with no trace but a dead body. Picking off your target with ease if you are a skilled thief.

War:
ll the swiftness you have said and the moment skills.
When suddenly you realize your whole glass cannon build is based around KS.
Even if you are on top a keep or tower wall you will still go down instantly. Also you have to stand on top of the wall to get a clear shot and leave your self wide open to take one killer shot. Theres so many drawbacks. In an openfield gc rifle wars are easy pickings for any ranged class. While thief can be like “now you see me now you dont…now you dont see your self either” "think i will move have way around this place to 2 hit my next target. While a rifle ks gc war is like kill or be killed and zerker stance only gives you a 2nd chance..Not to mention zerker stance is a utility unless you go full dum dum and get the trait. So wars lose a utility and the skill your complaning about is bugged by pierce as in no way it will 20k someone from 1500 if it wasnt bugged. Also it pins you in the spot and sure you can stop and wait another 10 sec to do it over while thief can run circles around you repeating the combo.

All said above is being compared between 2 experienced players.
A GC BS thief will pwn a GC KS war any day or night any day of the year unless the war switches weapons but wait that goes against the whole KS build so 2nd weapon dosent matter.

GG

I like how people say well u can see a killshot from that far and dodge it, but apparently you can’t see a thief that’s even closer before he can cast steal and try to do something about it. And let’s not count that bug with the piercing, and lets say everyone is 80 with good armor, so kill shot hits 8k? And pierces 3 ppl, that’s 24k dmg in 1 button compared to a thief bs combo. And since everyone complains about a bs combo being 1.75 seconds is too fast but anything else twice as long needs a buff, can I go omg I button piercing 3 ppl is op but a bs combo pressing 4 buttons ontop of me running behind someone needs a buff?

Mosharn.8357:

Daecollo.9578:

Mosharn.8357:

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Perma Swiftness. (SoR) – Super movement skill. (33% is faster then 25% thief has…)

1h Sword Leap – Super movement skill. (low CD)

Warhorn Swiftness/Vigor buff. – Super movement skill. (and movement condition cures!)

You can’t dodge a killshot, because if you dodge it its CD doesn’t go on cooldown and it comes right back up, you also don’t waste adrenaline for using this attack unless it hits…

If you see the target about to dodge, you can move forward, breaking the channal and kill shot again, you can also do that and use berserker stance to make the channal time 0.80 seconds.

And you can stand at 1500 to kill shot, in the chaos of battle thats VERY far away… (remember, backstab does less damage if your traited for burst damage, AND you have to be at 130 range, AND you have to be behind the target…)

YOU CAN ALSO immobilize the target so he can’t dodge, then killshot.

“BS theres little to no time to react.” – A rumor, there is plenty of time to react and press a stun break, you can also trait so if your about to die you can use an emergency. (every class has access to these traits…)

Oh were going to play the perma swift card ok.
Thief:
5 skill on bow and your out of there. Dodge for swiftness then heartseeker out of there.
Almost all weps have shadow step.

So we got that out the way now stealth
Perma stealth to your hearts desire while hauling kitten and never being seen.
Failed your bs combo? Np keep heartseekin till target dies.

Leave with no trace but a dead body. Picking off your target with ease if you are a skilled thief.

War:
ll the swiftness you have said and the moment skills.
When suddenly you realize your whole glass cannon build is based around KS.
Even if you are on top a keep or tower wall you will still go down instantly. Also you have to stand on top of the wall to get a clear shot and leave your self wide open to take one killer shot. Theres so many drawbacks. In an openfield gc rifle wars are easy pickings for any ranged class. While thief can be like “now you see me now you dont…now you dont see your self either” "think i will move have way around this place to 2 hit my next target. While a rifle ks gc war is like kill or be killed and zerker stance only gives you a 2nd chance..Not to mention zerker stance is a utility unless you go full dum dum and get the trait. So wars lose a utility and the skill your complaning about is bugged by pierce as in no way it will 20k someone from 1500 if it wasnt bugged. Also it pins you in the spot and sure you can stop and wait another 10 sec to do it over while thief can run circles around you repeating the combo.

All said above is being compared between 2 experienced players.
A GC BS thief will pwn a GC KS war any day or night any day of the year unless the war switches weapons but wait that goes against the whole KS build so 2nd weapon dosent matter.

GG

“5” skill on the bow costs initative. “6” to be exact, hes not going to have that much initative if hes trying to kill you.

A KS Warrior can do its thing from 1500 range, this means you can be hiding on a mountain while a BS thief runs by…BAM ALL HIS HP… Use precision signet.. BAM AGAIN… hes dead, he won’t even beable to react because he can’t see you.

Daecollo, ppl are gonna say, we’ll its because in 1500 range the charr warrior is smaller than an asuran but rendering issue is the problem with a thief >.>

DesertRose.2031:

Way to go for leaving out the important part:

on reflex

Thanks for your contribution, smartypants.

You don´t say…..
Maybe the Thief class is based on the moment surprise and fast burst, which can be countered by reflexive reaction.
I don´t know, but it seems kinda standard design for Thief/Assasin/Rogue classes to me, so what exactly are we talking about here? The so called “OP” build has it´s advantage and also huge disadvantages (which beats the build for a decent player), so there is really nothing to discuss right now, maybe after the bugfixes for all the classes, then we can seriously talk about the game mechanics and their OPness….