Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

Mosharn.8357:

Daecollo.9578:

Mosharn.8357:

Fail thred is fail. Glass cannon thief can out live a glass cannon war. War has no super movement skills or stealth. This is no way to compare 2 classes based on 2 different builds. Both can be countered but rifle gc wa r is easiest to counter. You can easily dodge a KS since theres so many hints its coming but with BS theres little to no time to react. So please do not compare the 2.

Perma Swiftness. (SoR) – Super movement skill. (33% is faster then 25% thief has…)

1h Sword Leap – Super movement skill. (low CD)

Warhorn Swiftness/Vigor buff. – Super movement skill. (and movement condition cures!)

You can’t dodge a killshot, because if you dodge it its CD doesn’t go on cooldown and it comes right back up, you also don’t waste adrenaline for using this attack unless it hits…

If you see the target about to dodge, you can move forward, breaking the channal and kill shot again, you can also do that and use berserker stance to make the channal time 0.80 seconds.

And you can stand at 1500 to kill shot, in the chaos of battle thats VERY far away… (remember, backstab does less damage if your traited for burst damage, AND you have to be at 130 range, AND you have to be behind the target…)

YOU CAN ALSO immobilize the target so he can’t dodge, then killshot.

“BS theres little to no time to react.” – A rumor, there is plenty of time to react and press a stun break, you can also trait so if your about to die you can use an emergency. (every class has access to these traits…)

Oh were going to play the perma swift card ok.
Thief:
5 skill on bow and your out of there. Dodge for swiftness then heartseeker out of there.
Almost all weps have shadow step.

So we got that out the way now stealth
Perma stealth to your hearts desire while hauling kitten and never being seen.
Failed your bs combo? Np keep heartseekin till target dies.

Leave with no trace but a dead body. Picking off your target with ease if you are a skilled thief.

War:
ll the swiftness you have said and the moment skills.
When suddenly you realize your whole glass cannon build is based around KS.
Even if you are on top a keep or tower wall you will still go down instantly. Also you have to stand on top of the wall to get a clear shot and leave your self wide open to take one killer shot. Theres so many drawbacks. In an openfield gc rifle wars are easy pickings for any ranged class. While thief can be like “now you see me now you dont…now you dont see your self either” "think i will move have way around this place to 2 hit my next target. While a rifle ks gc war is like kill or be killed and zerker stance only gives you a 2nd chance..Not to mention zerker stance is a utility unless you go full dum dum and get the trait. So wars lose a utility and the skill your complaning about is bugged by pierce as in no way it will 20k someone from 1500 if it wasnt bugged. Also it pins you in the spot and sure you can stop and wait another 10 sec to do it over while thief can run circles around you repeating the combo.

All said above is being compared between 2 experienced players.
A GC BS thief will pwn a GC KS war any day or night any day of the year unless the war switches weapons but wait that goes against the whole KS build so 2nd weapon dosent matter.

GG

“5” skill on the bow costs initative. “6” to be exact, hes not going to have that much initative if hes trying to kill you.

A KS Warrior can do its thing from 1500 range, this means you can be hiding on a mountain while a BS thief runs by…BAM ALL HIS HP… Use precision signet.. BAM AGAIN… hes dead, he won’t even beable to react because he can’t see you.

If the war is doing KS to a GC thief well there is nothing to talk about here but a KS on a normal 80 with any type of 80 gear well the KS sont hit harder than 8-12k which is not enough to 1 shot anythin unless a glass cannon.

As for the bow 5 costin 6 well it only takes 6 init to do BS combo i belive. And the 1 init that you need will be back by the time you start the typical BS combo.

Next thing we know they are still going to accuse thieves for being able to hold rifles and shoot 20k damage from 1200 range, because they automatically assume it’s a thief thing rather than a warrior class.

Conclusion: Just blame the thief over and over, regardless of how powerful guardians are in tpvp, or mesmer in general, or how warriors shoot out 20 k damages, etc.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Next thing we know they are still going to accuse thieves for being able to hold rifles and shoot 20k damage from 1200 range, because they automatically assume it’s a thief thing rather than a warrior class.

Conclusion: Just blame the thief over and over, regardless of how powerful guardians are in tpvp, or mesmer in general, or how warriors shoot out 20 k damages, etc.

I fought an op thief last night that shattered it’s Guild Thieves on me, followed by a 20k shot. Never saw the actual thief though.

Loading.4503:

I like how people say well u can see a killshot from that far and dodge it, but apparently you can’t see a thief that’s even closer before he can cast steal and try to do something about it. And let’s not count that bug with the piercing, and lets say everyone is 80 with good armor, so kill shot hits 8k? And pierces 3 ppl, that’s 24k dmg in 1 button compared to a thief bs combo. And since everyone complains about a bs combo being 1.75 seconds is too fast but anything else twice as long needs a buff, can I go omg I button piercing 3 ppl is op but a bs combo pressing 4 buttons ontop of me running behind someone needs a buff?

The war actually has to hit things to build up adren for the kill shot, that’s how you know about it, he’ll be hitting people. As for you won’t see it because its in WvW; well guess what? You won’t see any skill going off because of the chaos.

No one complains about 1.75bs combo being too fast. Bs is a >.5sec combo (no quickness) , they complain about >.5sec bs combo being too fast. A single 8k bs or ks is also not OP, however, ks probably shouldn’t pierce. 8k on however many it can reach seems kind of excessive .

The thing is, you CAN dodge that. He isn’t invisible. Thieves can do it all invisible, and still run away invisible. Good luck dodging what you can’t see.

Because beyond the 3 skill and the f1, there is no damage. It’s extremely squishy, and yes, having to wait 8 seconds between bursts is a gimmick by definition.

Cluster bomb spam, on the other hand, will be dealing almost as much damage AoE in the same timeframe, with just 300 less range. On top of that, you have the mobility that the thief offers.

And on top of everything, backstab as an option is much more viable than kill shot in almost any situation that’s not WvW.

Oh, the best part is that kill shot is a projectile, and can be reflected. If you have never meet an enemy zerg that has somebody spamming reflects, you probably haven’t played enough wvw. In SPvP and TPvP it’s an absolute joke unless the enemy is completely unaware you’re there (and in that situation, might as well play a thief for the added mobility and increased compressed damage potential)

Aegael.6938:

Because beyond the 3 skill and the f1, there is no damage. It’s extremely squishy, and yes, having to wait 8 seconds between bursts is a gimmick by definition.

Cluster bomb spam, on the other hand, will be dealing almost as much damage AoE in the same timeframe, with just 300 less range. On top of that, you have the mobility that the thief offers.

And on top of everything, backstab as an option is much more viable than kill shot in almost any situation that’s not WvW.

Oh, the best part is that kill shot is a projectile, and can be reflected. If you have never meet an enemy zerg that has somebody spamming reflects, you probably haven’t played enough wvw. In SPvP and TPvP it’s an absolute joke unless the enemy is completely unaware you’re there (and in that situation, might as well play a thief for the added mobility and increased compressed damage potential)

auto attack would do same damage in 8 seconds, but you can heal meantime
correct me if i am wrong , from cluster you take 2000 – 3000 -6000 – heal you take 3000 6000, bang you run away
killshot does 20.000 damage , bang you are dead

probably just cap the max crit dmg abit lower and all is well….

As was already said, it’s a warrior bug & is going to be fixed soon.

This however is not a bug & makes laugh when ever a thief says they shouldn’t be nerfed:

RamataKahn.4283:

As was already said, it’s a warrior bug & is going to be fixed soon.

This however is not a bug & makes laugh when ever a thief says they shouldn’t be nerfed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9gM9YAdYLo

This video is back from septemeber, and in that entire group of people, not one of them shot into the shadow refuge.

That small group heavily out geared them as well, as can be seen by the damage numbers, and downward facing arrows on all of their opponents.

There is no way for you to know if all the people in that zerg weren’t 80 so don’t even try to say that. And even if they were there is no way two geared out L80 warriors with the rifle bug could come anywhere close to doing that.

Who cares if it was September??? What does that have to do with anything?

It’s ridiculous that you even tried to defend that video.

A) Not one person targeted in that video was level 80.

B) When the enemy clearly has no idea what they’re doing, it’s worthless in terms of balance. We see a total of 0 people attack into shadow refuge, letting them constantly get away from situations that they wouldn’t be able to escape from with one or two decent players of any class in those zergs. Whenever they use dagger storm, everyone also still fires projectiles at them, making increasing their damage output several times over.

C) Multiple changes to the thief have been made since september, and the metagame has shifted greatly as the playerbase’s average skill level has increased since then.

No, I really do not believe that a thief needs a nerf. So what, I can down someone in a couple hits (from a combo that if one skill doesn’t land I’m royally screwed), I can’t stay there to finish them off unless I use one of my utilities. I can down a light armor with one backstab, how is that unfathomable? Really none of the points that people are giving me about my class needing a nerf are all too mind blowing. I said this on another post and someone wanted to flame me for it, clearly they do not understand the point of a medium armor melee class. My health and toughness are for crap. If I gear/put in points for those stats my damage is for crap. Take a second to think about what you’re trying to get across. If I have naturally lower health and toughness, I should therefore have a rather high damage output. And anyone who wants to tell me that the mobility of a thief is all too amazing, you’re blowing smoke. I have three utilities, four counting my healing skill, and I’m going to rely on those for my mobility. Those skills typically have about 60s CD on them, minus the Hide in Shadows (using that skill would mean I waste a healing ability to run away). Also, stealth in this game is pretty terrible. There is no reason that a class with the most armor and health should also dish out the same, if not more, damage than my thief. There’s a lot more I could go on about, but I’ll save myself the time.

Now, here comes the flame!

RamataKahn.4283:

There is no way for you to know if all the people in that zerg weren’t 80 so don’t even try to say that. And even if they were there is no way two geared out L80 warriors with the rifle bug could come anywhere close to doing that.

Who cares if it was September??? What does that have to do with anything?

It’s ridiculous that you even tried to defend that video.

Yes there is. The green arrow = not level 80. The majority if not all were not level 80. So yes, he can say that. You’re ignorance destroys your own argument. Give me a level 80 any class and I can take down a bunch of non 80s. And the fact that it was in september means two things

Most players were not 80 yet, and starting out on the game

Huge changes to thief have been made since, including a stealth debug

Rottaran Owain.6789:

A) Not one person targeted in that video was level 80.

Only a few people out of those zergs were actually targeted, since the bulk of the damage done was aoe. And even if everyone wasn’t 80, so what? I’m so tired of hearing this in WvW, guess what kids… you are never going to have all 80s in WvW so stop pointing that stupid crap out.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

B) When the enemy clearly has no idea what they’re doing, it’s worthless in terms of balance. We see a total of 0 people attack into shadow refuge, letting them constantly get away from situations that they wouldn’t be able to escape from with one or two decent players of any class in those zergs. Whenever they use dagger storm, everyone also still fires projectiles at them, making increasing their damage output several times over.

Even so, two players of any class shouldn’t be able to that do a zerg, regardless of the circumstances.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

C) Multiple changes to the thief have been made since september, and the metagame has shifted greatly as the playerbase’s average skill level has increased since then.

So you are saying that this build and strategy is no longer possible at all anymore?

RamataKahn.4283:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

A) Not one person targeted in that video was level 80.

Only a few people out of those zergs were actually targeted, since the bulk of the damage done was aoe. And even if everyone wasn’t 80, so what? I’m so tired of hearing this in WvW, guess what kids… you are never going to have all 80s in WvW so stop pointing that stupid crap out.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

B) When the enemy clearly has no idea what they’re doing, it’s worthless in terms of balance. We see a total of 0 people attack into shadow refuge, letting them constantly get away from situations that they wouldn’t be able to escape from with one or two decent players of any class in those zergs. Whenever they use dagger storm, everyone also still fires projectiles at them, making increasing their damage output several times over.

Even so, two players of any class shouldn’t be able to that do a zerg, regardless of the circumstances.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

C) Multiple changes to the thief have been made since september, and the metagame has shifted greatly as the playerbase’s average skill level has increased since then.

So you are saying that this build and strategy is no longer possible at all anymore?

So you want to nerf something based on the fact that two thieves killed a bunch of non level 80s who had no idea what they were doing? That’s the antithesis of balance right there if I ever heard of one. Give me a level 80 warrior fully equipped with exotics and I will destroy a bunch of non 80 thieves, therefore, using your logic, warrior should be nerfed? You’re argument is falling apart.

Please, for the effing sake of balance, we’re comparing 80 vs 80. That video is a wreck and using it as evidence does not make sense, seeing as not only is it NOT up to date with the various nerfed thieves got, but also the majority not being 80, therefore it IS not accurate at all. Please provide an up to date video showing 80 v 80 (sPVP = the best) and a lot more people wouldn’t dismiss your video.

Before each battle, they tab through several different targets, looking for warriors for the whirling axe, which since then has lost the evasion. None of them are level 80.

And again, if there was one or two decent players in that zerg, that strategy wouldn’t be viable. They constantly escape situations where they would’ve died if the enemy knew how shadow refuge, and stealth worked.

Doomdesire.9365:

Give me a level 80 warrior fully equipped with exotics and I will destroy a bunch of non 80 thieves

No you won’t. Not unless they all stand in your HB and do nothing.

RamataKahn.4283:

Doomdesire.9365:

Give me a level 80 warrior fully equipped with exotics and I will destroy a bunch of non 80 thieves

No you won’t. Not unless they all stand in your HB and do nothing.

I’ll use my brothers guardian, and I’ll get my friend to use his level 45 warrior. You get 5 non level 80 thiefs (and I don’t mean all level 79) and we’ll play.

Or even better, how about you and a friend get your hands on two level 80 thieves and take out a zerg using shortbow + the skills shown in video, because I know of no thief that can do that.

Doomdesire.9365:

RamataKahn.4283:

Doomdesire.9365:

Give me a level 80 warrior fully equipped with exotics and I will destroy a bunch of non 80 thieves

No you won’t. Not unless they all stand in your HB and do nothing.

I’ll use my brothers guardian, and I’ll get my friend to use his level 45 warrior. You get 5 non level 80 thiefs (and I don’t mean all level 79) and we’ll play.

Uh, there were a lot more then 5 people in those zergs. Give it up already, you aren’t convincing anyone except yourself and other thieves who want to stay super op.

Most of the replies who defend the warrior are exactly how most of the complainers about thieves are:
1. Completely ignorant of how this profession works .
2. Huge hypocrites.

A video of a warrior one-shooting low level people is not to be taken seriously. A video of thieves one shooting low level people (from 2 months ago!) is a a clear evidence for the necessity of nerfs.

This is pointless…