Guild Wars 2

Uhhhh I can’t see anything in this thread, not even the OP. Is this happening to anyone else?

It was stuck on page 1

Once upon a time a game called Diablo 3 was popular. Then that game nerfed anything that was fun to use into boring-ness. Then, that game took the better path of buffing things that AREN’T used instead of nerfing things that are used. But it was too late and Diablo 3 lost a ton of its momentum.

Learn from Diablo 3. Buff things that aren’t used. Think carefully before nerfing things that are.

It feels like every set of patch notes has lowered lowered lowered all over it. I know you are a new game, and balance can only be chased, never found. I’d just rather it be chased in another direction.

Thanks for reading.

I still think they need to fix all the skills and traits for all class’s that are not working before deciding to nerf the damage. I think once they fix the render issue it will solve alot of the thief problem to be honest. Prime example mesmer illusions do damage trait, they dont do damage to begin with so its pointless now. Another spectral grasp for necro, that thing will only grab something if it never moves. It also has a long cast time and huge arc so it takes forever to get to a target. Another example again from necro siphon traits which are beyond low amounts of health restored. Look at the signet heal for thieves as well, its health restored on hit is also very low so most thieves do not use it. Number of traits and skills are just not worth using.

I think that’s great, Certain skills do need to be looked into, but its true they only use about 1/4th of their potential in 3 skills, that no one can prevent and due to the stealth + wvwvw loading, you don’t even see them. I trust that you guys will balance out their other abilities to diversify the profession.

This is WvW, there is alot of imbalance in WvW due to gear, orbs, etc.

To the Devs- do not needless nerf classes, like you are talking about doing, because someone died in WvW.

You have to look at the tournament meta, where people don’t have problems with thieves. If you nerf spike damage too far, you will completely eliminate a thief build making it unviable. A melee class with no armor and 14k health is worthless doing moderate sustained damage, burst is required for that playstyle.

@TheLordQ: Dude Diablo 3 was the biggest garbage of a game anyone ever produced! It didn’t loose momentum because it nerfed things, it lost momentum cause it was horribly design. I was a hard core diablo fan for diablo 1 – 2, after playing 3 once and going into nitemare mode I asked myself: "Why am I wasting time on this kitten?

How dare you compare anything to it. Also there is nothing fun in beating the crap out of people in 1 – 3 hits. Such things needs to be eliminated, can’t compete without it? Then you shouldn’t compete at all!

I personally play a thief sometimes in spvp when bored of my warrior. Honestly I play condition damage builds and they are amazing. Back stab builds along with heart seekers are pretty much the easy build for those without skills to win some matches.

cab.4072:

This is WvW, there is alot of imbalance in WvW due to gear, orbs, etc.

To the Devs- do not needless nerf classes, like you are talking about doing, because someone died in WvW.

You have to look at the tournament meta, where people don’t have problems with thieves. If you nerf spike damage too far, you will completely eliminate a thief build making it unviable. A melee class with no armor and 14k health is worthless doing moderate sustained damage, burst is required for that playstyle.

In sPvP you don’t have the bugs like in WvW where Thieves are still invisible for several seconds after they unstealth.

in spvp, your stats are unrealistic

I think that in general, toughness needs to reduce more damage.

It also shouldn’t have such high diminishing returns.

I don’t think thief damage should get nerfed, imo they oughta be able to one shot or near one shot other glass cannons, they’re assassins after all. But when someone specs for high toughness, then it should matter a lot, which right now is not the case. Even if you go all out on toughness, it just doesn’t do much, even though you sacrifice all your offense.

Having super high toughness should enable you to easily cut off at least 65% of direct damage gone, considering how much offense you sacrifice for it. I also wish your stats would show how much % resistance to direct damage you have.

I think improving toughness significantly, will solve a lot of complaints in the game, both pvp and pve.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Too many people have a vested interest in seeing Thieves have far lower burst damage for this to be a good idea.

So based on what you said, backstab based build(s) will probably get nerfed… along with other unspecified spike damage builds. The problem is the unspecified “other areas to compensate” bit, increasing the damage of dagger auto-attack or Heartseeker will cause complaints, and you can’t really increase dagger offhand damage because it’s already good and not all backstab builds use a dagger offhand… there isn’t a whole lot left to “compensate” a nerf to backstab without making a different build just as (supposedly) OP as backstab.

Another point to add, continually nerfing the one profession that is fundamentally different from everything else can make people wonder if the different profession was a massive design flaw/headache waiting to happen.

Yeah, I don’t think thieves need to be nerfed. Fixing the render bug/lag, that’s the real issue. If you can’t see the thief of course you’re going to thing they’re overpowered, but really it’s a bug. Fixing traits so that they’re all useable and useful would do more than changing the ones that work.

Nah Gilosean, thieves really do too much damage, but only against high toughness targets. The problem is that there’s no way to build to counter these huge spikes thieves put out, because stacking toughness doesn’t grant you much result.

Don’t nerf thieves, but improve toughness.

Ekhm, in spvp I have the “standard gear” and I have about 40% crit chance with about ~50% crit dmg. On WvW I have my personal gear which gives me 60% crit chance (+ sigils of accuracy) and 104% crit dmg. So yeah, there is a massive difference.

Zsymon.8457:

Don’t nerf thieves, but improve toughness.

Changing toughness would effect all classes in all builds, which could cause undesired balance differences in other areas. A toughness change is too broad of a change.

A change to backstab is 1 single area that can be better controlled and have little to no alternate effects. It needs to be to backstab.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

It isn’t so much the raw spike DPS of backstab as the fact that the set-up for that spike is completely mitigated by instantly closing with steal+C&D. I’m not opposed to a change, I just hope it is implemented gracefully in regards to the true source of the issue.

OP- i can maximum consider your defence average
2 .you do not post stats in same screen with dmg list , so it can be 2 diferent characters :P
3. why run from thieves? you show them the back then complain about backstab
i rarely got more then 3000 from an dagger, usualy crits on me go at 1800 -2300 and i am not an bunker build, but comparing my stats with yours i assume you use rare armor set? , or your critical dmg is over 85% ? ( and that is not an defensive build )

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

I hope this means you are gonna be buffing condition builds….. maybe more conditions like burning? or less init cost? orb effectiveness for them in wvwvw?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

So, what I’m understanding here, is that you guys agree that thief is OP because they can do half health in one hit (while 16k HP isn’t high in the first place).

But do you guys also realize that all classes are able to do this? With the recent Sword/Pistol nerf, Pistol Whip is awful to use except when Haste is used with it, and in this situation, it’s still OP. So that removes one weapon class from viability, unless you find spamming auto attack extremely fun to do (since it has higher DPS than Pistol Whip now, even though that was once our main source of damage).

Now that you’ll nerf main hand dagger (and effectively D/D and D/P as well), we’ll lose our only slight advantage of playing the thief class, which was our burst damage. So, this will leave us with having to play condition builds if we actually want to play thief in a viable manner, and in this case, thief is still outclassed.

You guys are currently listening to the complaints. After the recent Assassin’s Signet nerf, thief’s burst was fine.

I’m not complaining. I just wish you guys would stop taking the Riot Games route of nerfing everything that’s complained about, even when it ruins the fundamental property of a class (stealth -> burst damage).

With the route you guys have been taking, you might as well just nerf thief into oblivion and get it over with. A constant stream of nerfs will never end with a well-balanced class.

hum cant quote but comparing this game to diablo 3 does not make sense, d3 is not a competitive game.
regarding to thief he does way too much damage compared to other glass cannon, the class has the highest damage spike, the better mobility and stealth, don’t be silly and admit that.
But i do agree Thief don’t need a damage reduction, all other classes need a damage increase so that I, as a ranger, can deliver 8k damage with an instant attack too, i don’t mind about stealth since we have 1500 range, that’s a fair trade no?

Shilian.5873:

hum cant quote but comparing this game to diablo 3 does not make sense, d3 is not a competitive game.
regarding to thief he does way too much damage compared to other glass cannon, the class has the highest damage spike, the better mobility and stealth, don’t be silly and admit that.
But i do agree Thief don’t need a damage reduction, all other classes need a damage increase so that I, as a ranger, can deliver 8k damage with an instant attack too, i don’t mind about stealth since we have 1500 range, that’s a fair trade no?

Or you can just play engineer and instagib people at 1200 range.

Krathalos.3461:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

So, what I’m understanding here, is that you guys agree that thief is OP because they can do half health in one hit (while 16k HP isn’t high in the first place).

But do you guys also realize that all classes are able to do this? With the recent Sword/Pistol nerf, Pistol Whip is awful to use except when Haste is used with it, and in this situation, it’s still OP. So that removes one weapon class from viability, unless you find spamming auto attack extremely fun to do (since it has higher DPS than Pistol Whip now, even though that was once our main source of damage).

Now that you’ll nerf main hand dagger (and effectively D/D and D/P as well), we’ll lose our only slight advantage of playing the thief class, which was our burst damage. So, this will leave us with having to play condition builds if we actually want to play thief in a viable manner, and in this case, thief is still outclassed.

You guys are currently listening to the complaints. After the recent Assassin’s Signet nerf, thief’s burst was fine.

I’m not complaining. I just wish you guys would stop taking the Riot Games route of nerfing everything that’s complained about, even when it ruins the fundamental property of a class (stealth -> burst damage).

With the route you guys have been taking, you might as well just nerf thief into oblivion and get it over with. A constant stream of nerfs will never end with a well-balanced class.

I don’t get how you can possibly justify this statement. The DMG vs survivability of this specific backstab stealth build is far superior to anything anyone else has.

Shilian.5873:

hum cant quote but comparing this game to diablo 3 does not make sense, d3 is not a competitive game.
regarding to thief he does way too much damage compared to other glass cannon, the class has the highest damage spike, the better mobility and stealth, don’t be silly and admit that.
But i do agree Thief don’t need a damage reduction, all other classes need a damage increase so that I, as a ranger, can deliver 8k damage with an instant attack too, i don’t mind about stealth since we have 1500 range, that’s a fair trade no?

Thief can dramatically close gap. Your range will be rendered useless and I hope you at least have something to negate the thief’s burst when he pounces on you

SKuDDer.1860:

I don’t get how you can possibly justify this statement. The DMG vs survivability of this specific backstab stealth build is far superior to anything anyone else has.

Played a burst damage guardian?

I’ve dropped squishies in seconds on a “glass cannon” guard that has waaay better survivability than these thieves.

Not saying that what thieves have might be a little bit much, but to say no-one else has the damage/survivability is kinda wrong. Since BS thieves do die insanely quickly.

It’s not a “Backstab stealth build.” It’s just a backstab build. These “constant stealth” complaints that people are always throwing around are not from the popular backstab builds. If a Backstab thief build is always in stealth, it’s a rendering issue. This doesn’t mean thief needs nerfed. This just means the issue needs fixed.

And no, it’s not “far superior.” Warrior can deal more damage than Thief’s Backstab with Eviscerate or Kill Shot (which has 1500 range). Hundred Blades can deal far more than Backstab, but is a tad bit harder to pull off.

Engineer can do it with Grenade glass cannon builds (I can even get you a video of this if you require it).

Guardian can do it pretty easily.

I’m not sure if Necro can, but I assume it can’t since no one uses DPS Necro builds.

Elementalist can with D/D glass cannon.

Mesmer can and does very often.

Ranger is never played as a burst class, so I honestly have no idea if it has any burst. People use Short bow and Long bow for their 1337 deeps.

well or i could play mesmer and kitten with people mind, the point there is 1 if a player decide to sacrifice all of they defensive stats and go full glass cannon should be able to do do that kind of damage, no problem with that, but atm only thief can deliver such damage on such easy way’s (not counting the stealth bug…) and that’s annoying for ppl who don’t want to play thief…keep your instant kill build but give everyone the possibility to do such.

Apparently you just ignored the last few posts. Other classes can do it just as well as thief. However, since they’re not as widely used (since those classes have more viable builds), they aren’t complained about and, therefore, aren’t in line for nerfs.

Krathalos.3461:

Apparently you just ignored the last few posts. Other classes can do it just as well as thief. However, since they’re not as widely used (since those classes have more viable builds), they aren’t complained about and, therefore, aren’t in line for nerfs.

I’m going to go ahead and disagree with you.

If you want to talk raw damage, yes, other classes can produce similar numbers. No class, however, can produce such numbers with the mobility and flexibility of the Thief. The Thief chases and escapes superbly, has great gap closers, initiates strongly, can survive despite glass cannon builds thanks to stealth, and so on.

What seperates thief burst from other burst, imo, is the difference in difficulty to execute that burst. For thief it’s easier to do that other builds/classes.

So how to balance it, I suppose, would be to have the overall damage remain the same, but have it harder to execute and give it more opportunities to be countered.

How this is going to be achieved, i suppose we have to wait and see.

Paranoid.9542:

What seperates thief burst from other burst, imo, is the difference in difficulty to execute that burst. For thief it’s easier to do that other builds/classes.

So how to balance it, I suppose, would be to have the overall damage remain the same, but have it harder to execute and give it more opportunities to be countered.

How this is going to be achieved, i suppose we have to wait and see.

I might start calling this the “Xin Zhao axiom” of game design, where any competitive build/character/entity that can kill others with minimal effort or skill is anathema to balance and fun, and must be adjusted.

melchiz.7182:

Krathalos.3461:

Apparently you just ignored the last few posts. Other classes can do it just as well as thief. However, since they’re not as widely used (since those classes have more viable builds), they aren’t complained about and, therefore, aren’t in line for nerfs.

I’m going to go ahead and disagree with you.

If you want to talk raw damage, yes, other classes can produce similar numbers. No class, however, can produce such numbers with the mobility and flexibility of the Thief. The Thief chases and escapes superbly, has great gap closers, initiates strongly, can survive despite glass cannon builds thanks to stealth, and so on.

Those same classes gain something else in exchange for the loss of “mobility and flexibility” (which is arguable). Thief would be awful without stealth. 10.8k base health with medium armor makes them the squishiest class in the game. In order to build for stealth/burst you must lack utility for condition removal (which they don’t have a lot of) or break stuns (which they also don’t have a lot of).

The thief’s ONLY way to survive is stealth. If you remove this or remove the burst damage, the thief is now just going to shadowstep in, burst, then be forced to run away because the other glass cannon classes can kill him faster than he could kill them.

If a thief pops up, dodge before they backstab and focus them. It really is quite this simple in every game where an assassin is involved.

Also, stop standing still in PvP. Backstab is a lot harder to hit on a moving target, since it has a short range and a .25s cast time.

guys no one in the game can deliver such damage as a thief right now..all of your skill are instant, don’t compare them with 100b since that skill is a chain and the player can just move away /lol ….same apply for the kill shot…u can just walk away, interrupt LOS /lol
Lets be honest here, i played thief on Spvp, not WvW and it is the only class that is effective if spec’d as glass cannon and IMHO that’s not right, as said before you don’t need any damage nerf im super fine with being 3 shotted, but kitten let me 3 shot too…
I am telling u that, i am fully GC ranger with every single piece of berserker armor/weapon/jewels and a scholar rune and i hit 2.4k critical on a guardian with similar stats of the guy in the screenshot. that’s from my maxed out autoattack damage, i may deliver a 6k if the guy is AFK and every single shot of my chain skill crit…
i do believe that’s fair from unbalanced since i take 2 shot to die.
So people should stop crying for nerf and ask a damage increase to match your damage guys.

Shilian.5873:

guys no one in the game can deliver such damage as a thief right now..all of your skill are instant, don’t compare them with 100b since that skill is a chain and the player can just move away /lol ….same apply for the kill shot…u can just walk away, interrupt LOS /lol
Lets be honest here, i played thief on Spvp, not WvW and it is the only class that is effective if spec’d as glass cannon and IMHO that’s not right, as said before you don’t need any damage nerf im super fine with being 3 shotted, but kitten let me 3 shot too…
I am telling u that, i am fully GC ranger with every single piece of berserker armor/weapon/jewels and a scholar rune and i hit 2.4k critical on a guardian with similar stats of the guy in the screenshot. that’s from my maxed out autoattack damage, i may deliver a 6k if the guy is AFK and every single shot of my chain skill crit…
i do believe that’s fair from unbalanced since i take 2 shot to die.
So people should stop crying for nerf and ask a damage increase to match your damage guys.

This is the second time you’ve posted without reading any other posts in the thread.

Kill Shot has 1500 range. Imagine if it were instant. Hundred Blades is the single strongest ability in the game. Imagine if it were instant.

You’re putting the warrior using these abilities in situations that don’t help it, while thief is always, 100% of the time in the greatest situation for them, according to you.

The thief is never spotted running up to 900 range. The warrior at 1500 range charging Kill Shot always is. The Warrior using Hundred Blades doesn’t have any CC abilities to back it up, so you can just walk out of it (this never happens, you need a Breakstun to work against Warrior glass cannon 100b builds).

I also think it’s hilarious you are comparing your “maxed out auto attack damage” to a class’s main burst ability. Hint: Ranger’s Long bow and Short bow aren’t based off burst. They’re based off constant, ranged DPS. Apples and oranges.

melchiz.7182:

Krathalos.3461:

Apparently you just ignored the last few posts. Other classes can do it just as well as thief. However, since they’re not as widely used (since those classes have more viable builds), they aren’t complained about and, therefore, aren’t in line for nerfs.

I’m going to go ahead and disagree with you.

If you want to talk raw damage, yes, other classes can produce similar numbers. No class, however, can produce such numbers with the mobility and flexibility of the Thief. The Thief chases and escapes superbly, has great gap closers, initiates strongly, can survive despite glass cannon builds thanks to stealth, and so on.

Please O great overlord, point me to this build you describe; a build with MULTIPLE gap closers (BS build has one), superb escapes (BS build has the only useful thief heal) and high survival due to stealth (BS build has C&D + heal).

It sounds to me like you don’t actually know what the backstab build is, it has one gap closer (steal), one ability stealth (C&D), one heal + 3 second stealth (Heal), not a single defensive trait or skill and a 45 second timer between the death of one person and the potential death of another… it’s also not a team oriented build so it’s less common in sPvP/tPvP.

To reiterate, you have a very high chance to kill one person every 45 seconds and a very high chance of dying after killing someone, and if you mess up even once you’ll probably die… is this REALLY what you are complaining about?

Krathalos.3461:

The thief’s ONLY way to survive is stealth. If you remove this or remove the burst damage, the thief is now just going to shadowstep in, burst, then be forced to run away because the other glass cannon classes can kill him faster than he could kill them.

What’s wrong with running as your survivability mechanic? You already run and chase better than other professions. Would you be fine if they kept stealth as-is and took away your blinks and hefty passive speed?

I want you to consider the following:
Shatter Mesmer and BS Thief engage 1v1, and it’s a close fight. The Thief is outplayed and must retreat, but can escape thanks to stealth, Infiltrator’s Arrow, passive speed, and Shadowstep (optional).

Shatter Mesmer and BS Thief engage 1v1, and it’s a close fight. The Mesmer is outplayed and must retreat, but even after using Blink and Decoy, is defeated by the more agile Thief.

Many builds can blow up enemies like a Thief, but not with the minimal risk and game-breaking mobility of the Thief.

Krathalos.3461:

Also, stop standing still in PvP. Backstab is a lot harder to hit on a moving target, since it has a short range and a .25s cast time.

Wait, you actually try to land Backstab outside of the typical cheese combo? Say it ain’t so!

melchiz.7182:

Krathalos.3461:

The thief’s ONLY way to survive is stealth. If you remove this or remove the burst damage, the thief is now just going to shadowstep in, burst, then be forced to run away because the other glass cannon classes can kill him faster than he could kill them.

What’s wrong with running as your survivability mechanic? You already run and chase better than other professions. Would you be fine if they kept stealth as-is and took away your blinks and hefty passive speed?

I want you to consider the following:
Shatter Mesmer and BS Thief engage 1v1, and it’s a close fight. The Thief is outplayed and must retreat, but can escape thanks to stealth, Infiltrator’s Arrow, passive speed, and Shadowstep (optional).

Shatter Mesmer and BS Thief engage 1v1, and it’s a close fight. The Mesmer is outplayed and must retreat, but even after using Blink and Decoy, is defeated by the more agile Thief.

Many builds can blow up enemies like a Thief, but not with the minimal risk and game-breaking mobility of the Thief.

Krathalos.3461:

Also, stop standing still in PvP. Backstab is a lot harder to hit on a moving target, since it has a short range and a .25s cast time.

Wait, you actually try to land Backstab outside of the typical cheese combo? Say it ain’t so!

Shadowsteps are a requirement for thief to deal any bit of burst damage. If we didn’t have the instant distance closers, thief wouldn’t be a threat no matter how hard they hit. Only Sword has an actually viable distance closer other than Steal/Infiltrator’s Signet.

I’d be fine if they removed the 25% movement speed boost signet. I use it for convenience, and I’ve already done map exploration, so I wouldn’t be angry in any way if it were removed or nerfed.

“Running” can’t be an escape mechanic when it’s far too easy to stop someone from simply walking away.

Let me give you a different situation:

Shatter Mesmer used Moa Transformation. BS Thief died without being able to retaliate because of a 10 second, unbreakable CC with a 1 second cast time. There’s also no way for BS Thief to interrupt Moa Transformation, since D/D builds do not have any interruption.

In other words, if you’re going to try to act like thief is OP, please don’t compare it to Mesmer. Every class would seem UP if you compared it to the utility of a Mesmer. Please also don’t act like thief is OP when compared to Mesmer.

And yes, I don’t use the Backstab instagib build that everyone else uses. I don’t like following builds that other people make, especially not ones so gimmicky as that. I don’t use Basilisk Venom or Assassin’s Signet. I use Devourer’s Venom at times if I really want one person dead.

Because the passive speed you’re talking about is from a utility skill. Making that our suriviability mechanic would mean that it would be a required utilitiy, which is not how class defenses should function.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Just make a thief, go paid tournaments, and see for yourself how “overpowered” this is. It is just ridiculous how devs make decisions based on qq and not on actual facts. The guy that started the thread does not provide anything, just vague numbers of someone in unknown spec versus someone else in unknown spec, and if devs base their decisions on such things, then i better roll a warrior, coz i know u guys play him, even buff, and you will think twice before nerfing your favorite class, yeah.
And i know you don’t “just” nerf things based on qq, but it seems that you don’t test things for real before changing them and just believe in all that exaggerated_overblown_so_much idea that thief is overpowered. Don’t do your work for the sake of stopping qq, please.
I get destroyed by mindwrack+blurfrenzy mesmers in tournaments, but i dont qq about them, i enter their forum and see almost no qq, and this is because people dont understand mesmers, and they dont even know what to qq about, but the thief, oh the thief is much simpler to understand and to qq about.
Thief forum is just a bunch of bad players, go to spvp forum, not much qq about thieves there, guess why?

sorry krathalos i cant write and read new post at the same time >.>
i agree with u in that:
I also think it’s hilarious you are comparing your “maxed out auto attack damage” to a class’s main burst ability. Hint: Ranger’s Long bow and Short bow aren’t based off burst. They’re based off constant, ranged DPS. Apples and oranges.

well the “maxed out auto attack damage” is the highest DPS skill available for the profession if you don’t count quickness+rapid fire
And that just confirm my theory, thief is the class that mostly benefit from the glass cannon spec.
And yeah i talked about warriors because someone was comparing their damage to thief.

Really? 100 Strikes from a Warrior and you’re complaining about Backstab?

Really?!

I keep hearing glass cannon over and over lol you have stealth that defeats every con that comes with Glass Cannon.

i’m QQ a lot if they nerf my build because critics are from people who QQ about lose in PVP and they say “wtf it was too strong! better post on forum so i can win next time”,i hope Anet make clever changes,not repeat same mistakes like Blizzard with Diablo 3

Fellknight.4820:

I keep hearing glass cannon over and over lol you have stealth that defeats every con that comes with Glass Cannon.

Honestly can’t take people seriously who actually think this is a legitimate response.

Use CC on a thief, and guess what? He blows up. Stealth didn’t do anything. On these “Backstab builds” that this topic is complaining about, they have two ways to stealth: Cloak and Dagger (130 range, .5 second cast time, 6 initiative cost) and Hide in Shadows (1 second cast time, 30 second CD, our heal).

Thief has 10.8k health and <2k armor in glass cannon builds. Thief also lacks any hard condition removal or any invulnerability abilities (which most other classes pretty much all have, and the ones who don’t get compensation of some sort). Thief is also kind of lacking on Break stuns, especially for, once again, these Backstab builds.

iSinner.4285:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Just make a thief, go paid tournaments, and see for yourself how “overpowered” this is. It is just ridiculous how devs make decisions based on qq and not on actual facts. The guy that started the thread does not provide anything, just vague numbers of someone in unknown spec versus someone else in unknown spec, and if devs base their decisions on such things, then i better roll a warrior, coz i know u guys play him, even buff, and you will think twice before nerfing your favorite class, yeah.
And i know you don’t “just” nerf things based on qq, but it seems that you don’t test things for real before changing them and just believe in all that exaggerated_overblown_so_much idea that thief is overpowered. Don’t do your work for the sake of stopping qq, please.
I get destroyed by mindwrack+blurfrenzy mesmers in tournaments, but i dont qq about them, i enter their forum and see almost no qq, and this is because people dont understand mesmers, and they dont even know what to qq about, but the thief, oh the thief is much simpler to understand and to qq about.
Thief forum is just a bunch of bad players, go to spvp forum, not much qq about thieves there, guess why?

This.
You already did the appropriate “nerf” with Assassin’s Signet which was the right call. Stop nerfing fluffy kittens. Nobody wants to see a repeat of the Assassin oblivion nerf from GW which is an obvious fallacy to bring up (Or is it…). But I agree with the above post, we’ll just roll Warriors and set up for exact same purpose, they can do it at 1200 range anyways, no big deal. Don’t have to worry about it getting nerfed either for more than obvious reasons. That’s not even a spiteful comment.. it’s just blatant fact at this point lmao.

Honestly this class should be deleted and every player given a choice of class change and equal gear. It’s a terribad design allowing players with little to no pvp skill compete with players.

The one thing that makes most players hate pvp is theif so fix the glitch.

The fact remains, backstab is a instant ability that outputs far greater damage then anything anyone else has (everyone elses is channeled or casted), there is no counter to it, you cannot dodge it, block it, because you don’t see the thief. How about a 1 second cast on backstab so i have a chance to dodge roll it? At least with guardian or warrior or any other profession for that matter you have a chance to dodge the burst.

only thing that needs changing is to take away the spike which comes from the cnd/steal combo which is basically stacking 2 skills on top of each other for a double attack. stacked on top of each other it does close to the same damage of back stab

im so happy i just started my condition build, its much better than a back stab build but its fair as well as you cant do it in 1.5 secs

Arenanet made some good changes to the Assassin in GW1. It kept the bad players away because they can no longer do 1-2-3-4-win with their eyes closed, and the great players still did well with them.

If the Thief gets nerfed anymore I’m playing a warrior. At least warriors don’t get nerfed.
You reduced Assassins Signet, maybe fix the CnD precast before going all out with the -15% backstab damage we all know is coming.

Note: I don’t play a glass cannon, a backstab nerf will just make it useless for non-gc builds.