Guild Wars 2

its the 3 skills spike stack that is the issue. thats what RAW spike is.

No one ever said anything about nerfing back stab

take away mug/cnd combo and the backstab will become much harder to pull without decreasing its damage

I think executioner might see a nerf

If Anet wants to keep nerfing my favorite class why even play the game anymore?
I respect your development skills Jonathan and you’ve made a great game, but I think I speak for the majority when I say this “nerf” isn’t needed. What respectable build will thieves have left after this? Condition damage? That’s it. The only I can think of at the top of my head. Thieves can survive pistol whip nerf, assassins signet nerf, but reducing the raw damage for multiple builds(keep it mind, you said nerfing the raw damage for some builds meaning not only backstab) and my question to you is: Why? Thieves are already squishy as it is, so why nerf raw damage? What does backstab in particular stick out to you and not equally powerful things like 100 blades + frenzy + knockdown combo? Warriors using that always get my thief downed before he can get up, yet you don’t see me complaining. OP hasn’t even posted all the facts, and it’s sketchy at best. You said you would compensate. But how? To nerf elements that make backstab what it is, is to also nerf crucial elements many other builds use. How would thieves recover from that? Maybe it’s time to hang up thief and go with another class, but then again, I don’t have time to level to 80. Maybe I should just quit

Doomdesire, it might be best to see what the changes are before writing off the entire build and entire class when Nerf != instantly useless.

frans.8092:

I have no faith that you will fix the rendering issue, ever. Which will likely reduce the already lacking performance of the client. The rendering bug does not exist for AI, nerfing profession skills to compensate for this bug will reduce PvE performance and thus the ability to group.

What does the rendering issue have to do with backstab damage when backstab is conducted from stealth?

As long as the spike is softened for more equalized dps I’ll be fine with a nerf.

Like when Assassin’s Signet got a nerf, it nerfed the burst but increased the overall dps so have a little faith. Anet aren’t idiots, they clearly want the thief to still do high damage but they also want to see the thief take a bit more skill. So far they’ve achieved this by lowering the burst and increasing overall dps.

To game designers:

There are people that still do not know how to play their class or use wrong gear/runes and everything. Right now I have a backstab burst build with signet usage, that focuses on fast dps output, but even so when I met skilled people I lost pretty badly.

These people were:
1) Elementalist (he had good defense and he also kite me like a kitten)
2) Warrior(he root then 2 shot me) since I have no survivability and low HP with this build
3) Guardian (he also had a lot of defense and good dps output)
4) Hunter (he dodged my signet+steal so I was left with nothing, then he disabled/root me and shot me down pretty fast – like the warrior did. On this particular incident I was amazed since some hunters say their class is broken.)

I am pretty sure if you asked these guys about their opinnion about thieves they would probably say that they are no problem to them or they would laugh.

Some of the above I fought them multiple times and couldn’t beat them as I do usually on other players because they knew what they were doing. I am pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to beat them even if I used defensive build since the damage output would be quite low.

Please think twice before nerfing classes out of the game because some people can’t handle dying in WvW. Most of these screenshots are from people that seem to be trying to solo WvW and die from a thief, they get mad they have to run all the way again then come here to complain.

Also nerfing the burst dps build even more(since it already got nerfed twice) will result in one thing: It will make thief a support class, since most people won’t be using the nerfed build anymore, others will come here complaining because they got nerfed and so on.

Don’t make this game into WoW… ignorant people spamming the forums which makes the devs think it’s the general thought of every player.
Call me mad or w/e but thief that use the glass-cannon backstab build dies reeeaally fast if you just could learn your own class before flaming on forums on others.

No one likes a nerf.. I totally agree with the fix before nerf statement. Everything else ould be stupid, like patching over twice.
But we can’t decide what Anet nerf or buff. Just hope that they know that nerfing nearly always making ppl frustrating, fixing or buffing often makes em happy.

Please don`t nerf backstab. I love to kill backstab baddies

On a second note the backstab baddies could role a 5 signet warriors, thus making them even easier to kill and have better weapon from steal… hm dilema.

A-net should just ask to spvp teams and good wvw guilds how much they think thief is op.
Everyone should realize that people that post on this forum are almost insignificant in terms of size part of the gw2 player base.

Shilian.5873:

But i do agree Thief don’t need a damage reduction, all other classes need a damage increase so that I, as a ranger, can deliver 8k damage with an instant attack too, i don’t mind about stealth since we have 1500 range, that’s a fair trade no?

Hehe, did you understand that ranged < melee dmg in this game? It definitely looks that way, I can´t deliver 8K dmg with my pistols or shortbow and its only for 900 range… And even with my backstab (if you´re still looking at the WvW screenshot, you just know nothing about the game – If I create lvl 1 mesmer and go to WvW, I will be punished with these hits too, but not because backstab is OP, but because a low lvl char sux in WvW, just like that…)

I thought that game developers are rational thinking ppl who dont do what QQ player cry here. How you can listen crying kids here. They dont want balanced proffesions but only nerf other classes so they can easy kill them. Thief = glass cannon = strong attacks and less HP and defence. Glass cannon must have strong damage because glass cannon without strong attacks = glass only and its exactly what these crying kids here want and developers do what they cry. I thought that developers on this game are more professional that these one from other games but I see that not.

Fellknight.4820:

I keep hearing glass cannon over and over lol you have stealth that defeats every con that comes with Glass Cannon.

Are you still talking about GW2? I thought that a class called “Rogue” has perma-stealth, vanish etc…
Thief is quite different in these and our stealth isn´t “Invulnerability” you know?
Smart player can hit you hard even if you are stealthed, because he thinks and predicts….

Yes and no-smart players which dont think and dont predict go cry over forum for nerf of thief. Pls developers do a favor for me – after next thief nerf pls delete thief class because after more nerfing thief will be tottaly glass only with no damage and everybody kill him with one hand in nose. After thief is totally ruined these kids will go cry for nerf of other classes. They will say that necro is OP, warr is OP, mesmer is OP…etc. You really dont see what they want. They dont know play their class, some thief killed them on WvW and they now whimper on forum. How you cannot see it?

Runcore.5107:

Yes and no-smart players which dont think and dont predict go cry over forum for nerf of thief. Pls developers do a favor for me – after next thief nerf pls delete thief class because after more nerfing thief will be tottaly glass only with no damage and everybody kill him with one hand in nose. After thief is totally ruined these kids will go cry for nerf of other classes. They will say that necro is OP, warr is OP, mesmer is OP…etc. You really dont see what they want. They dont know play their class, some thief killed them on WvW and they now whimper on forum. How you cannot see it?

Exactly. I think that any balancing before bugfixing is very probably contraproductive in most cases (look at the Elementalists and their traits, RTL and other bugs). I cannot mention other classes, I play only Ele and Thief in this moment, but I doubt that Ele is the only one with bugs and mechanic problems. there are so many bugs, that their fixing change the class so much by itself. Any balancing before this can simply ruin the class for future…

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Awesome. Please keep us posted on these kind of things even if they arent ready yet to be discussed more in depth.

I like how Thiefs immediatly come up with the same old childish defenses even right after a post like that made by a dev, haha. puts fingers in ears Just get more toughness! Just dodge! Just roll a thief urself and you’ll see its like superhard to use those 3 buttons!
Even with a dev specifically saying the damage on a specific ability is too high, you guys still blame ‘all the other non thief noob players’ for your mindblowing overpowered damage and mindnumbing easy gameplay.
I just love MMO forums.

They dont want balanced proffesions but only nerf other classes so they can easy kill them

Check this epic example. This is coming from a Thief. He even talks like the typical thief.

GankSinatra.2653:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Awesome. Please keep us posted on these kind of things even if they arent ready yet to be discussed more in depth.

I like how Thiefs immediatly come up with the same old childish defenses even right after a post like that made by a dev, haha. puts fingers in ears Just get more toughness! Just dodge! Just roll a thief urself and you’ll see its like superhard to use those 3 buttons!
Even with a dev specifically saying the damage on a specific ability is too high, you guys still blame ‘all the other non thief noob players’ for your mindblowing overpowered damage and mindnumbing easy gameplay.
I just love MMO forums.

Read my post. How about that? A warrior 2 shotted(after rooting me) me and I couldn’t dodge or anything with my build, since I don’t have the traits to defend myself. Did I go cry on their forums for nerf? no, although it was a 2 shot. He killed me with the same tactic on every encounter(more than 5 times). I had 16k hp with that build/gear.

And the reason I didn’t go on their forums is that I knew I had the incorrect build for that specific fight. So I got over it.

Poor thief gets to many nerfs My main is a thief i played all the builds there are I am above lvl20 in spvp and my main build which i luv is bs build

I luv it when i come up against good players as its a challenge victory can go either way.
When i get stomped do i cry…. no I assess what stupid things i did wrong etc.

Ele\war\mesmer – glass cannon build – can I shot me if I dont apply blind before they hit there cd’s and get my cd’s off first

eng\ranger – average

guardian – bunker build – when played correctly can only achieve getting half their hp so I dont even bother till my team shows up . Plus a properly spec’d bunker guardian cant kill anything

They can nerf the thief till the cows come home I will still play the thief and just watch from the shadows and pop the occasional cluster bomb.

Ah ! I used to run a glass cannon/backstab build… the one every thief goes with when they’re thinking about PvP. But then I started to get real bored of it (it was mostly hit or miss, depending of how good your opponents were), also I knew that at some point that thing would get nerfed (insta gib backstab thief build is not balanced. It’s not OP to the point that a thief gets a God Mode, but its mechanics are not trully adapted to the rest of the game)… so instead I rolled a P/P&D/D build with a lot of condition damages and I hope we get a boost in it (even if it’s not needed)

After this nerf i want developers to tell me instructions how i can get back my money that I invested to buy this game. When I was buying this game i didnt expected that after some time game become child-cry based and developers dance how children play and cry on forum. Omg developers wake up. Test balance of all classes you yourselves and dont listen whimpers of small children who dont know play their class correctly. I play thief from begin of game, Im trying to get best items and now after months of hard work my favorite class is totally ruined because some bunch of fools cannot stand that some thief defeated them on WvW or PvP.

I play a Backstab burst build in WvW and yes, my damage is pretty good but i die in 1 sec, i cannot stand on aoes, i cannot get close to walls, my role is to pick of targets, take taht away from the thief and what we have?

10k hp
Low def
and if nerfed, bad burst.

Rendering the class almost useless or forced to play Condition thief, and that is just pathetic.

Warriors 2 shoot me, Bunker guardians deal with me, shatter mesmer kitten me… i really hope Anet know what he is doing, or they will mess the whole class up because some freaking baddies dont know how to stun break or move away….

Better start leveling my warrior.

The fact that Anet actually responded to this is quite worrying.

This is nothing but a l2p issue as this is a game with depth and actually requires skills to play, if all you wanted is to bash a few buttons and expect to win then just go with some big zergs in wvw and enjoy.

I run a thief with 16k hp and 1.6k toughness, and I can honestly say I have lost count how many times I got insta-gibed by all classes (except rangers if I remember correctly), and when it comes to thieves its much easier to counter (DONT stand still) unless its the rendering issue but thats another story.

Well I rolled a ele last night and guess what, I’ll see all you QQers on the ele forum soon.

Please, stop the crying. I’m sure you all play thieves because you like the profession, not because it’s currently overpowered and dominates most of the team matches in numbers coughcough.

I’ll have to be a slightly bit harsh, but some of you haven’t played enough of several other professions to come in and claim that the thief would be useless if it had any kind of nerf.

So some people are saying that glass cannon elementalists can inflict more damage than a thief. I’m not sure what exactly could lead someone to say that, but I wonder if it wasn’t a pure mindless thought in the impossible attempt to defend the thief’s current state.

For those who don’t know how those classes compare to each other, I’ll detail a few things out for the ele. Glass elementalists are a disaster. Yeah, maybe I’m exaggerating a bit, but – OK, they really are ineffective. Unlike thieves, since the game has started that the elementalist was deemed as a terribly nerfed profession, and that mentality only started to change when ele players found out that the defensive and/ or bunker elem. builds are actually effective. To put things short, a defensive-specced elementalist makes up for a lot of their weaknesses and gives them time to shine with their 20 skills.

So, a glass D/D ele against a thief. Yeah, well, it’s simple. Imagine a thief. Imagine a thief even more squichy than what they already are (lower armor). Imagine a squishier thief with no stealth. Imagine a squishier thief with no stealth that takes twice the time to set up their burst.

Imagine a squishier thief with no stealth that takes twice the time to set up their burst and whose attacks are far easier to avoid.

Wait, Imagine a squishier thief with no stealth that takes twice the time to set up their burst, whose attacks are far easier to avoid AND has more defensive skills that completely force you to interrupt your own burst to give you meaningless defense, because most of those skills require you to get hit, and a glass elementalist who wants to get hit and not die in 3 seconds must be specced for defense, while we’re clearly talking about glass cannon eles.

While the thief is by far the most played class in spvp, the elementalist is just uncommonly seen, specced for defense, or has become almost extinct, when it comes to power builds. I’m not sure if any of you remember, during the days of HS-spam and the like, at the beginning of the game, when elementalists were still seen. You probably do, because elementalists were easy kills to every single profession, especially to thieves.

So, yeah, I can’t see how a nerf or two, especially if it is compensated in some other area, is going to ruin the thief, and I don’t see either how a warrior is any better just because they have one big burst skill that is hard as hell to do anything with it except against newbs. When I go to a warrior’s forum, did you know that it has its fair share of players who think the profession is “oh so useless” and “oh it needs a buff”? Happens at every forum.

EDIT:
To the user above, the “elementalist who knows what they’re doing” is possibly a defensive-specced ele. They’re pretty good at countering spike builds, or at least, spike builds that blow off their skills/ initiative mindlessly. I’ve been going against thief players and the odds have been about balanced with such builds, but trust my word, if I ever went glass cannon with an ele, I would still die in 2 seconds against a thief.

Awesome, no more thieves killing players in 2 seconds after stealthing, there going to actually have to use player skill and fight.

Now we will be able to tell the difference between good player theives and bad one’s.

Now all they need to do is fix stealth bugs where on other’s screens it looks like perma stealth, your taking damage but nothing is actually attacking you…..

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

really? Jonathan, you realize that we’ve taken a nerf of some sort every single patch. I don’t even use daggers and I feel for the builds already. You realize that right now on some weapon sets autoattack is the highest dps skill on their bar? Does that not scream “broken” to you when the thief mechanic is based on being able to use the same skill multiple times in a row for burst dps?

It doesn’t add up that you’re making all of our skills basically utility skills with lower damage than autoattack and making most of our damage come from autoattacking. It’s not engaging play, at all.

There’s blood in the water and people know all they have to do is complain “thief OP” and you guys give them the thief nerfs they want.

Is it only going to stop when ALL thieves are autoattacking exclusively?

MarkedOne.1309:

Thief that can do this kind of damage is fully glass cannon specced. Should they want to kill people fast, it goes: basilisk>(assassnins signet)>cloak and dagger>steal>backstab. This works pretty well against majority people. However, however. Most players just wait till they get approached by a thief, then they will probably lose (reactions-skill). This is the majority people. Majority people = casual players aka players that are not very good. These players go on this forums and call for nerfs.
On the different side – there are about 10-20% people that are aware of how their class or any class for that matter should be played. So they don’t wait, they pop cd’s, or easily they only dodge. If a thief does this combo, he has cooldowns on all major skills and is left with almost 1/2 of his initiative. What now? The thief will most likely die.
People from the top teams know that thieves are fine as they are. Those are the people that are good. They play other classes and have no problem to counter them 1v1 and kill them.

If there are any nerfs to thieves, i want mesmers nerfed, portals, moa need to be nerfed or adjusted. Warrior 100b and their constant dps is also bad. Necromancers are pain, can kill anything, plague needs to go. Then you need to nerf guardians+elementalists, their bunker specs are too strong to be in game.

As a thief (one of professions i play) i am having a blast when I am able to kill rank5 elementalist in about 2 seconds. I am pretty sure he will be mad and probably will go to the forums. On the opposite side, when I meet a rank 30 elementalist, or just one that knows what he is doing, I have absolutely NO chance to kill them. Backstab is just useless in this situation. These players dont go to the forums but rather play and kill more thieves on their own.

There might be needed quite a few adjustments made in regards of ALL classes, not only thief.

I don’t really like to say these type of things again and again either ingame or on forums, so thats all from me.

This. The Backstab setup is a great noob killer (Even better if they go full glass) but meet a half decent opponent and the thief is going to die.

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

This. The Backstab setup is a great noob killer (Even better if they go full glass) but meet a half decent opponent and the thief is going to die.

Dealing 8k+ damage against any opponent before they even see you is an absolute noob killer and puts you at great odds against any other player. It’s almost a win button against any other glass cannon build in this game, because those will not have enough defense to protect themselves, and will not be able to deal twice your damage neither to compensate for starting the battle with half their HP.

Hundred Blades setup is the great noob killer that takes a lot of skill to work against good players. The Backstab setp is simply much more effective.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Hundred Blades setup is the great noob killer that takes a lot of skill to work against good players. The Backstab setp is simply much more effective.

:D Yeah man !!!! Warrior: Frenzy+Bull charge(1k dmg+/2 sec stun)100b(12k AOE dmg)Whirlwind Attack+(5.5k AOE dmg)=18,5K AOE DMG is very diferent to use. Thief must use “only” Basilisk venom(1.5 sec stun)assassin signet+steal+CaD+Backstab+HS to give same (single target) DMG like Warrior.
But you’re right !!!!! (irony)

I have a number of friends who play thief, some of them are, very, very good at the class. I’ve asked them, do you think thieves are Op at the moment, every single one replied “Yes”. I duo WvW with a full beserker/exotic thief I watch him down players before I am even in range, the damage he can put out is just nuts and he does this consistently.

I have come across thieves in WvW (and before you pipe up, I know it’s WvW and peoples gear can be vastly different) that can and do kill players in under 2 seconds. I’m a full exotic bunker built Ele, I came across a thief who was consistently doing between 16-19k damage with Steal, Cloak & Dagger, Backstab with Backstab critting for between 8-9k, my health pool at the time was 16.8k. He would down me before I even had a chance to react. Considering I am bunker/tank character, imagine the amount of damage he would be doing to any glass cannon built players.

No profession should be able to down a player before they have a chance to react, I don’t care how “squishy” you keep telling people they are, as stealth makes up for having less survivability.

Does thief need toning down? Absolutely.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

This. The Backstab setup is a great noob killer (Even better if they go full glass) but meet a half decent opponent and the thief is going to die.

Dealing 8k+ damage against any opponent before they even see you is an absolute noob killer and puts you at great odds against any other player. It’s almost a win button against any other glass cannon build in this game, because those will not have enough defense to protect themselves, and will not be able to deal twice your damage neither to compensate for starting the battle with half their HP.

Hundred Blades setup is the great noob killer that takes a lot of skill to work against good players. The Backstab setp is simply much more effective.

Wrong and Wrong.
You are talking about damage output on 1vs1. If you read my post above you will see that I have lost to other classes when they know how to play, so thief is not even the best 1vs1.
Also this is not a 1vs1 game. Thief is the worst class on massive battles mostly because of initiative requirement, low ranged abilities and also slow ranged aoe.

Loco.4561:

I’m a full exotic bunker built Ele… my health pool at the time was 16.8k.

You´re just kidding, right?
My Ele has 16K health pool, and my build is far from tank/bunker (0/30/0/15/30)…

Also, I have 4 exotic pieces in my gear only….

If they nerf raw damage then tagging mobs will be even harder for farming on a thief =(

Wonder if they’ll nerf warrior’s damage too? (lol like that’ll ever happen!)

"

What seperates thief burst from other burst, imo, is the difference in difficulty to execute that burst. For thief it’s easier to do that other builds/classes.

So how to balance it, I suppose, would be to have the overall damage remain the same, but have it harder to execute and give it more opportunities to be countered.

How this is going to be achieved, i suppose we have to wait and see."

More opportunities to be countered? Are you kidding me? Such changes would effect PvE, and mobs sometimes already annoyingly turn around during the backstab charge time.

Loco.4561:

I have a number of friends who play thief, some of them are, very, very good at the class. I’ve asked them, do you think thieves are Op at the moment, every single one replied “Yes”. I duo WvW with a full beserker/exotic thief I watch him down players before I am even in range, the damage he can put out is just nuts and he does this consistently.

I have come across thieves in WvW (and before you pipe up, I know it’s WvW and peoples gear can be vastly different) that can and do kill players in under 2 seconds. I’m a full exotic bunker built Ele, I came across a thief who was consistently doing between 16-19k damage with Steal, Cloak & Dagger, Backstab with Backstab critting for between 8-9k, my health pool at the time was 16.8k. He would down me before I even had a chance to react. Considering I am bunker/tank character, imagine the amount of damage he would be doing to any glass cannon built players.

No profession should be able to down a player before they have a chance to react, I don’t care how “squishy” you keep telling people they are, as stealth makes up for having less survivability.

Does thief need toning down? Absolutely.

First time 16k HP and bunker build ? Nope you are pure glass cannon
Second-Your enemy could use 5-6 skills and you failed to use neither ?
Man you are a SLUG in glass cannon body.

This discussion here is meanless. Kid will be still crying that thief is OP even if you give them proof that its not true (and btw if you say on WvW that thief is OP you have no brain because on WvW you have your normal gear). We must hope that developers have brain and their own opinion and do the best decision instead of listening crying fools on forum!!

Loco.4561:

I have a number of friends who play thief, some of them are, very, very good at the class. I’ve asked them, do you think thieves are Op at the moment, every single one replied “Yes”. I duo WvW with a full beserker/exotic thief I watch him down players before I am even in range, the damage he can put out is just nuts and he does this consistently.

I have come across thieves in WvW (and before you pipe up, I know it’s WvW and peoples gear can be vastly different) that can and do kill players in under 2 seconds. I’m a full exotic bunker built Ele, I came across a thief who was consistently doing between 16-19k damage with Steal, Cloak & Dagger, Backstab with Backstab critting for between 8-9k, my health pool at the time was 16.8k. He would down me before I even had a chance to react. Considering I am bunker/tank character, imagine the amount of damage he would be doing to any glass cannon built players.

No profession should be able to down a player before they have a chance to react, I don’t care how “squishy” you keep telling people they are, as stealth makes up for having less survivability.

Does thief need toning down? Absolutely.

In WvW it is easy to get 104% crit damage, and that is without food and buffs, big hits will happen

Sons.5493:

Better start leveling my warrior.

EPIC truth !, so all you thieves out there (including myself) start rolling warriors !

(no toughness/no hp/stealth nerf, and more dmg nerf … gtfo thives and just delete your character)

I really dont understand foolishness of some ppl which say that thief is OP on WvW. This super-mega OP thief can have full exotic gear and these ppl who was killed by him can be 2. level with no gear. You are not thinking when you write these QQ topics. I reccomend you better go watching Pokemons instead of crying on forum and making other ppl angry.

If any class should have most of its damage on autoattack, it should be warrior.

But nope, they get to do the highest skill damage in the game.

What about make new topic called: “Crying kids time to perma ban”. Its better and more interesting theme on forum. If all crying kids are banned we have here only 50% of players.

Evilek.5690:

Loco.4561:

I have a number of friends who play thief, some of them are, very, very good at the class. I’ve asked them, do you think thieves are Op at the moment, every single one replied “Yes”. I duo WvW with a full beserker/exotic thief I watch him down players before I am even in range, the damage he can put out is just nuts and he does this consistently.

I have come across thieves in WvW (and before you pipe up, I know it’s WvW and peoples gear can be vastly different) that can and do kill players in under 2 seconds. I’m a full exotic bunker built Ele, I came across a thief who was consistently doing between 16-19k damage with Steal, Cloak & Dagger, Backstab with Backstab critting for between 8-9k, my health pool at the time was 16.8k. He would down me before I even had a chance to react. Considering I am bunker/tank character, imagine the amount of damage he would be doing to any glass cannon built players.

No profession should be able to down a player before they have a chance to react, I don’t care how “squishy” you keep telling people they are, as stealth makes up for having less survivability.

Does thief need toning down? Absolutely.

First time 16k HP and bunker build ? Nope you are pure glass cannon
Second-Your enemy could use 5-6 skills and you failed to use neither ?
Man you are a SLUG in glass cannon body.

I’m toughness stacked (including runes/jewels etc…) a pure glass cannon Ele would have somewhere in the region of 13k HP. What does that gibberish mean “Your enemy could use 5-6 skills and you failed to use neither?” Are you saying the thief used abilities on me and I didn’t? Each time the thief in question nuked me, he did Steal → Cloak & Dagger → Backstab and I’m down. 3 hits, engaging from 900 metres, 18k damage in under 2 seconds. I know how to counter professions, I can’t counter ones I can’t see, that can down me before I press a key, that’s my issue.

I would have the same complaints if it was another profession doing it to me. People complain about Warriors, it’s ridiculously easy to counter warriors that try stun → hundred blades, yes they can do a LOT of damage if they catch you with it, but it is easily counterable, thieves are not, that is the issue.

the amount of people defending thieves is laughable. Anet have admitted its a problem with all burst damage classes. So stop comparing warrior and thieves, all heavy spike classes will be adjusted and compensated.

Now we will get nice skilled fights and none of this instant 1-shot dribble. If you are good at playing a thief you shouldn’t worry about this Anet post, if you are it just shows how worried you are about not having 1-shot abilities anymore.

Runcore.5107:

What about make new topic called: “Crying kids time to perma ban”. Its better and more interesting theme on forum. If all crying kids are banned we have here only 50% of players.

And all of those players are thieves!

People who are saying that thieves do not need a nerf are people who always played only thief and have no idea of what is needed to other profession to archieve a kill.
Try every profession out, than come here to say thieves don’t need a nerf in D/D build.

I think for a cloak and dagger fix, what would be a great fix would be to make the stealth conditional – make the skill a parry defense like riposte

Cloak & Dagger – 6 Initative – (2 sec cast time), Block the next attack, and retreat into stealth / (activate again) to instead gain 4 initiative

This does a couple of things – it allows for stealth more often on the thief, and rewards good opponents for watching skill animations (if you don’t attack the thief), then they don’t get stealth, and the advantages of them.

There are no “1-shots” or even “perma-stealth” builds without drawbacks:

Some repeated misconceptions:

1) 1-shots: there’s always time to react if you’re an average-skilled player (but most players are casuals who didn’t even manage to complete the “tower jumping puzzle”). Even the engineer-burst video isn’t a one-shot. It needs several grenande volleys on a stunned player. So it’s either dodgeble, blockable, breakable (stun) etc.

Concerning thieves, a possible combo:

• Activate new Assassin’s Signet: 15% on next 5 attacks
• Cloak and Dagger activation
• Steal (mug)
• Cloak and Dagger now hits
• Backstab
• Autoattacks or Heartseekers

This is no 1-shot and needs positional accuracy which can easily denied. Also, the thieves doing this are often experienced roamers (WvW/sPvP) and know how to take out a target. It’s your own fault if you don’t specc for survivability/vitality/toughness and move across a map without support. Then you may be in a serious danger of dying – that’s fine. If you’re specced for survivability etc. then you may get hit very hard, too but you still have plenty of time to react.

One problem though: a lot of WvW/sPvP players haven’t even played a main for a continuous time and aren’t maxed (gear in WvW) or use subpar gear/trait/skill sets vs. people with very specific and efficient burst builds. They have to learn how to improve. But they rather fail on the event jumping puzzles…

Also: No Thief can sneak up to you from distance without getting noticed. If a thief gets into steal-range you gotta be prepared – if you don’t have a stun breaker then it’s your own fault. You seriously have to die and that’s fine, too. You have to account for these situations if you’re a roamer, change your build and not complain on forums because you take your loss as a personal insult.

2) There’s no such thing as perma-stealth. There’s only a problem with rendering/culling (mesmers/thieves/shadow refugees). But a thief cannot maintain a huge and repeated uptime on stealth without reducing damage significantly because he had to choose stealth skills instead of signets for his utility slots. There are some videos of thieves abusing the rendering issues (point capture) – but they won’t “5-shot” (cf. above) anyone.

sorrow.2364:

Runcore.5107:

What about make new topic called: “Crying kids time to perma ban”. Its better and more interesting theme on forum. If all crying kids are banned we have here only 50% of players.

And all of those players are thieves!

People who are saying that thieves do not need a nerf are people who always played only thief and have no idea of what is needed to other profession to archieve a kill.
Try every profession out, than come here to say thieves don’t need a nerf in D/D build.

So first i tried all classes on WvW and PvP so i dont only play thief.
Second if thief use D/D build he must be close to enemy and its mean that he will be more damaged than using P/P or shortbow and when thief is glass cannon its mean he will not stay alive too long time with daggers. I never play D/D from start of game and I use only P/P and bow. I was on PvP and have no problem kill another D/D thief with my pistols or bow. Its all only about experiences with your class but no. Instead of learning how to be best with you proffesion you go better cry on forum and hope that developers nerf other classes. Its really proffesional behaviour. Its clear that you are only small kid who was defeated by some thief and now want nerf-revenge.

so, this is the end for us then D/D build,

Anet, please buff pistols then,

compensate every weapon builds for us to be viable, like S/D D/P etc etc

I don’t see why you guys don’t think being able to crit people for half their HP when they have 3200 armor is acceptable.

So to help clear up some of the trolling. I don’t need to L2P, I am on blackgate, have been for awhile, we are in Tier 1, we are in the running for 1st place. I play WvWvW with most of my time. I have tweaked, I have dug into, I have found every possible build for guardians, and my build is perfectly fine. I am geared to the max, I am fully specced in the toughness line, my armor is at 3000.

For those of you saying get more hp, its not possible. Look into the professions of GW2, you will see guardians are in the lowest base HP pool at lvl 80 with 10k, You might be lucky to get another 600 points in vitality to boost you up to 16k, and then if your server owns some orbs, then you might have 18-21-25k hp.

Look into my gear Gear , I have spent many hours tweaking my runes, my armor set, my weapons, my sigils, to maximize survivability in WvWvW while still keeping some damage.

I have given countless reasons, stat break downs, trait builds, damage reduction numbers, yet I have not see a single post by a pro-thief justifying why it is ok to do a 3-4 combo on someone within a 3-5s period and drop them. Please, if you can tell me, how does one stop this spike DPS?

You can not dodge roll it or predict when the attack happens because they are all instant abilities
You can not see them due to the stealth issues

Its plain and simple, there is no counter or prevention to this massive burst, and that’s not the type of game anet wants. This whole game is based around skill of dodging and avoiding attacks, yet you can’t dodge or avoid these, so in rebuttal, it is those using this build that need to “L2P”, its just another broken easy 3 skill spamming I win mix that needs tweaking.

I honestly don’t see the issue. First and foremost thieves do not automagically appear behind you when stealthed or teleporting (a big no no imo) second that isn’t very much health. My engineer has more health then that in his green explorer stuff. I always thought one of the goals of PVP was to put on something that gave extra health to improve survivability.