Guild Wars 2

A glass cannon crying on thieves again. Another learn to play issue gone haywire. Anything else new? /thread

STRanger.5120:

Deal with it please and let the devs do their work, don´t make them read these useless whine posts, while they should be reading a constructive feedback on these forums…

Apparently if you consider Chapman’s post, they don’t need to read the forums to know that something is off. It is a known issue to them. But he did feel “obliged” to answer to this thread due to the attendance and level of concern. Whether someone posts a whine QQ thread I don’t see how it interfer with a devs work. I don’t like it either but to say that they are hindering them is a bit off.

Also consider that nerf =/= useless

And it is a welcome change as well /flamesuit on

Kraven.4936:

A glass cannon crying on thieves again. Another learn to play issue gone haywire. Anything else new? /thread

Really? Apparently one of the better balancing developers among the MMO companies now listens to whiners than data right? Since he aknowedged it as a known issue. Also considering to “accuse” Chapman of not knowing or playing his own game (and to argue about his player skills is rather laughable) is rather moot.

Never.6014:

I like you.

Thanks, I´m just trying to be objective, because those unsupported arguments and made-up numbers are making me doubt the quality of the community in this game, I left other MMO´s hoping that these ppl which constantly whine about something even before the game is bugfixed stay playing those…. I was wrong, unfortunately…

I’m so tired of being punished for rolling a thief.

Remember GW1 Assassin…
First they nerfed Shadow Prison…then burst of aggression…then made horn of the ox do almost no damage…then black lotus strike became a lead attack…then blades of steel did less damage…and so on and so forth until the class was just plain garbage.

At least back then, it didn’t take long to get to lvl 20. Now it takes a very long time to hit 80.

Without burst, please tell me what thieves have to offer that other classes don’t have. Maybe Shadow Refuge? lol…

Sorry…I guess it was my fault for not learning my lesson from gw1. Time to start on that Charr warrior…

STRanger.5120:

Never.6014:

I like you.

Thanks, I´m just trying to be objective, because those unsupported arguments and made-up numbers are making me doubt the quality of the community in this game, I left other MMO´s hoping that these ppl which constantly whine about something even before the game is bugfixed stay playing those…. I was wrong, unfortunately…

There will always be whiners. The real telling thing is what the devs do in response to and about whiners, and how well the ingame experience ends up. SO far, i think Anet has made a really good game. Let’s hope they keep it that way.

Delolith.9645:

STRanger.5120:

Deal with it please and let the devs do their work, don´t make them read these useless whine posts, while they should be reading a constructive feedback on these forums…

Apparently if you consider Chapman’s post, they don’t need to read the forums to know that something is off. It is a known issue to them. But he did feel “obliged” to answer to this thread due to the attendance and level of concern. Whether someone posts a whine QQ thread I don’t see that is interfer with a devs work. I don’t like it either but to say that they are hindering them is a bit off.

Also consider that nerf =/= useless

And it is a welcome change as well /flamesuit on

Yes, I understand this and I agree. But contructive feedback is something which can bring devs to some new ideas about classes and improve gameplay. But this cannot occur if it gets lost in the tons of whine threads….

When, one day I hear ‘No thiefs’ for a dungeon, that day I will log off from ANet, forever.

You are nerfing profession skills before and in stead of fixing the client rendering issue. The rendering bug does not exist for AI, nerfing profession skills to compensate for this bug will reduce PvE performance of the profession and thus the ability to group with other players.

At this point I have little faith that you will succeed in balancing all professions for both PvP and PvP in GW2, where you failed this in GW1.

SKuDDer.1860

Your first problem is you said this: sPvP-ranked guilds/teams. This whole thread is based around WvWvW. SPvP is a separate entity where stats are not even close to being the same.

I follow some the sPvP streamers and “friends” of mine who are playing tournament sPvP on a high elaborative level. I know that there’s no absolute measure of “rank”, yet. So’s your friend’s. You don’t know exactly how good he is and whether skill also implies that he’s not biased. So take that with a grain of salt.

You’re right – sPvP gives some other possible stat-combinations than WvW – but the general concepts of 1on1 or small group fights do apply – people with a higher skill set don’t usually complain about thieves. They complain about e.g. the current anchor-metagame. I don’t follow any specific WvW scenes except the one I’m participating. So my WvW knowledge’s more or less just my own experience while I have a more diverse range of inputs and opinions on/from sPvP.

SKuDDer.1860

What does completing a puzzle have to do with anything? I completed this so I must be legendary? I beat clocktower

As I mentioned above it’s no absolute measure of skill because it’s quite easy. I just used it as a basic metaphor for a indirect expression of the current state of the userbase. People can’t even control their characters properly in stressful situations. PvP (WvW/sPvP) may also be (for most people) a somewhat stressful situation. So what I wanted to imply is that there are a lot of people participating in balance discussions and whine-threads who are not even able to move a character from a) to b) in a jumping puzzle alhtough most of them tried it for hours and hours (95% – according to Anet).

Furthermore, it implied that most people are not able to make reasonable progress within arguably long time spans. They get frustrated and want to let off steam. Some go to forums and complain in hope for an auditorium.

I did not say that you specifically are not able to cope with basic character movement (and thereby being disqualified for further balance discussion). I just said that forums are also a location that attracts the attention of a lot of people who don’t have a clue.

Devoted “Pied Pipers of Hamelin” here have the ability or chance to transmit alledged preconceptions such as “thief OP – nerf everything” (exaggeration).

So, finally people should just put more effort in improvements of their own skills instead of whining in hopes for developers to adjust alledged imbalances.

If I create lvl 1 mesmer and go to WvW, I will be punished with these hits too, but not because backstab is OP, but because a low lvl char sux in WvW, just like that…)

I’m level 80 in full exotics, and backstab crits me for 15k (which is my health pool, fyi).

That said, I could deal with 16k backstabs if they weren’t instantaneous from 900 range. Warrior Kill Shot has a telegraphed animation and requires full adren.

Backstab is instant from 900 range.

That is the problem.

Concerning thieves, a possible combo:
Activate new Assassin’s Signet: 15% on next 5 attacks
Cloak and Dagger activation
Steal (mug)
Cloak and Dagger now hits
Backstab
Autoattacks or Heartseekers

Everything from Mug through Backstab lands within 0.2 seconds.

Also: No Thief can sneak up to you from distance without getting noticed. If a thief gets into steal-range you gotta be prepared – if you don’t have a stun breaker then it’s your own fault.

Lol.

The only counter is to spam dodge against any Thief within 900 range of you, all the time.

Only class in the game where their presence alone demands that you dodge or die. Of course, you have to take the time to identify that the player is a Thief in the first place. Unless you make a habit of wasting all your endurance any time someone so much as walks within 1200 range of you.

You’re just digging yourself deeper into the nerf hole.

“What does the rendering issue have to do with backstab damage when backstab is conducted from stealth?”

It is part of why the thief profession is perceived as too strong by some. If you can’t see the player who just hit you like a truck the I can imagine it’s a bit overwhelming too fight them

Balancing GW1 seemed easier when you looked at a patch note and seen every class had like 10 skill changes, now with the “simplified” version of set skills = weapon they hit the nerf bats even harder. I’m still waiting for them to complete omit a skill like in GW1 when certain skills got nerfed beyond usefulness in PvP terms.

Backstab is not broken and neither is the damage, get toughness and vitality and watch your surroundings, you can see the cooldown glass blowers strafing back and forth in the back waiting for a good 60 seconds so they can be effective again.

P/D for life. . . . . .And I live through a glass cooldown blower through smartz.

Thieves QQ “L2P” and then this happens:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Awesome.

Look, guys, you’re playing an OP class right now. Nerfs have been hitting EVERY patch since release. Your “L2P” posts show that you’ve never played another class against a skilled thief.

Here’s the issue:

• Thieves have stealth
• Thieves have high mobility
• Thieves have high spike damage

That combination spells out one thing, “skill-less dps class” …

Like I’ve said before, its not a question of whether or not the thief is getting a nerf. He’ll get more because he needs them. It’s a question of whether or not Anet is nerfing the right skills.

I think they’ve done a fantastic job with zeroing-in on specifics and waiting for new results.

EasymodeX.4062:

If I create lvl 1 mesmer and go to WvW, I will be punished with these hits too, but not because backstab is OP, but because a low lvl char sux in WvW, just like that…)

I’m level 80 in full exotics, and backstab crits me for 15k (which is my health pool, fyi).

My main is lvl 80 too, don´t have full exotics, and the highest backstab I encountered was for 12K (that was pre-balance/nerf of Assasins signet). Taking my Class (Ele) and build (+0 toughness, +150 vitality), I dealt with it because I deserved it. Can you understand this?
Also, Backstab is very far from being an instant ability

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

In a lot of normal builds and situations, damage from Backstab and a number of other burst abilities in game are probably right where they should be. The huge damage spikes that seem out of line and lead to player frustration generally come from combining the effects of a number of buffs/skills/traits/abilities and such (especially in WvW) that scale up to the big numbers.

Also, the ability to do that effectively helps encourage people to run low durability builds…so there’s a lot of soft targets out there, not even counting newer poorly geared players/characters.

So, I would really encourage working on the mechanics of all those stacking effects before considering significant changes to raw ability damage coefficients and such. There might even end up being more balanced/sustainable builds out in the wild if that max possible burst capability comes down a bit.

You needlessly nerf the thief and I’m done with this game.

Right… you complain about thief maybe you should try one at 80 ? Or should i start to complain how a guardian can solo any champ out there in the world ? ohh but thats o OP i want to be able to do that also please Anet nerf guardians they just soak up to much damage.

As far as i see your pic its several skills combined to your death not just Back stab
Also someone said warrior need full adrenalin for kill shot well thief need to be in stealth for back stab and behind someone for the massive damage.
Here is a pic of one skill doing 2x damage of what you QQ over the back stab

http://i.imgur.com/TLRNW.jpg

Bring out the nurf bat everyone run around with a stick poking each other.. yey…

/Ahh forgot to mention this is quite pointless what he done from the start a he is using a WvW pic ( aka why i did it also) but i bet the enemy had 3 orbs)

My main is lvl 80 too, don´t have full exotics, and the highest backstab I encountered was for 12K (that was pre-balance/nerf of Assasins signet).

The highest I was hit for prior to the Signet change was 18.5k with Backstab.

Fight some Thieves that actually know how to gear and build for dps?

Also, Backstab is the closest thing to instant outside of an ability actually being categorized as instant (e.g. Steal, which can be used without interrupting another ability).

Of course, if Backstab had a real cast time it would be very unwieldy to meet its positional requirements. Which is why one of my composite recommendations from the previous “nerf Backstab” threads was to enable the damage bonus from the sides as well as from behind, but add a “real” (e.g. 1.0s) cast time to Backstab.

That, on top of reversing the damage placement of CND, would provide a very reasonable gap in damage where a player can actually do something, instead of falling over instantly from a 30k+ damage combo that lands within 0.3 seconds at 900 range.

EasymodeX.4062:

The highest I was hit for prior to the Signet change was 18.5k with Backstab.

30k+ damage combo that lands within 0.3 seconds at 900 range.

The important parts: “Prior to signet change” and that 30K+ made-up non-sense number (you cannot meant that seriously, right?).

I admit that backstabs I encountered is not the highest ones achievable, but still, nobody can hit you that hard in sPvP because of orb absence and easier to get awareness (fewer players).

Again, this game is not based on WvW if Anet wants it to be played competitively like an e-sport, therefore the balance doesn´t depends on some Orb-buffed glass cannon kills which are not viable in competition…

EasymodeX.4062:

If I create lvl 1 mesmer and go to WvW, I will be punished with these hits too, but not because backstab is OP, but because a low lvl char sux in WvW, just like that…)

I’m level 80 in full exotics, and backstab crits me for 15k (which is my health pool, fyi).

That said, I could deal with 16k backstabs if they weren’t instantaneous from 900 range.

Concerning thieves, a possible combo:
Activate new Assassin’s Signet: 15% on next 5 attacks
Cloak and Dagger activation
Steal (mug)
Cloak and Dagger now hits
Backstab
Autoattacks or Heartseekers

Everything from Mug through Backstab lands within 0.2 seconds.

That’s not true. It all depends on whether your target is facing you or not. Therefore the time may differ and it’s getting only semi instant. Altough the cone (“behind the target”) is wide it’s not instant to activate a signet, hit steal, hit C&D, move “behind the target” and land a BS all while you target’s moving, dodging, AOE’ing, blocking or anything else. So the scenario becomes more complex than your isolated ragdoll theorycrafting.

EasymodeX.4062:

The only counter is to spam dodge against any Thief within 900 range of you, all the time. Only class in the game where their presence alone demands that you dodge or die. Of course, you have to take the time to identify that the player is a Thief in the first place. Unless you make a habit of wasting all your endurance any time someone so much as walks within 1200 range of you.

There are also other defences than dodging or stun breakers. It was just an example of how you’d be able to easily defend yourself. Furthermore, you didn’t say what class was your main and how you specced/traited/geared etc.

EasymodeX.4062:

You’re just digging yourself deeper into the nerf hole.

I hope that they don’t balance based on typical forum user feedback and do intensive internal testing. But it’s nice to see your FoTM-concept of the Arenanet team.

frans.8092:

“What does the rendering issue have to do with backstab damage when backstab is conducted from stealth?”

It is part of why the thief profession is perceived as too strong by some. If you can’t see a the player who just hit you like a truck the I can imagine it’s a bit overwhelming too fight them

Culling’s going to be improved/fixed in near future (official statement on progresses). Overhasty nerfs to compensate for networking/rendering issues are subpar because that would afffect sPvP and PvE, too.

JoEWas.1409:

Balancing GW1 seemed easier when you looked at a patch note and seen every class had like 10 skill changes, now with the “simplified” version of set skills = weapon they hit the nerf bats even harder. I’m still waiting for them to complete omit a skill like in GW1 when certain skills got nerfed beyond usefulness in PvP terms.

I think that cautious and slight adjustments are the better way to balance in general. If you make to many changes at various levels you risk creating new imbalances because you didn’t let the metagame adjust first. People learn to cope with supposed problems. And I don’t mean “culling” – that needs to be fixed and will be fixed soon.

Oh joy…. can’t wait for this game to lose even more players… :/

16k hp is a lot for a guardian, unless they go all vitality to get over 20k. Remember folks, they have 10k base hp.

STRanger.5120:

EasymodeX.4062:

The highest I was hit for prior to the Signet change was 18.5k with Backstab.

30k+ damage combo that lands within 0.3 seconds at 900 range.

The important parts: “Prior to signet change” and that 30K+ made-up non-sense number (you cannot meant that seriously, right?).

I admit that backstabs I encountered is not the highest ones achievable, but still, nobody can hit you that hard in sPvP because of orb absence and easier to get awareness (fewer players).

Again, this game is not based on WvW if Anet wants it to be played competitively like an e-sport, therefore the balance doesn´t depends on some Orb-buffed glass cannon kills which are not viable in competition…

Actually is it possible.. here is my thief.. and this was on a level 80 btw

As you can see above I didnt even steal on that… It would have been well over 30k dmg in less than a second if I had used Steal “mug”

I knew this nerf was coming so I already started getting gear for my new build :P

Just gotta adapt you guys I think even after the nerf this build will still be viable, you are just going to have to use it in another way.

thanks coolmoos, that pretty much sums up what the damage would be on someone who doesn’t spec toughness.

SKuDDer.1860:

thanks coolmoos, that pretty much sums up what the damage would be on someone who doesn’t spec toughness.

Exactly.. And I have always argued the fact that its not our fault “thieves” that they don’t use toughness gear.

Exactly.. And I have always argued the fact that its not our fault “thieves” that they don’t use toughness gear.The way I see it, if you don’t spec into vit/tough you should and will get hit like this. I don’t think its broken at all.

Exactly.. And I have always argued the fact that its not our fault “thieves” that they don’t use toughness gear.The way I see it, if you don’t spec into vit/tough you should and will get hit like this. I don’t think its broken at all.

backstab theifs are very easy to counter you just need to pan and pay attetion to your surroundings….i understand its harder to do in big fights but i havent really had a problem with it

Yes but my spec is vitality and toughness as a guardian and I still get hit for my health pool in a matter of 2-5 seconds, so I do think it is a problem.

honestly, remove the tele-port part of this combo, and you can keep the rest. If you are able to make to to a player without teleport you deserve the high dps.

something like a debuff for 3seconds after teleport preventing you from stealthing.

I dont know why that posted 3 timeslike that….

Here, is another lvl 80 foe with a backstab over 18k.

I’m just saying we have burst. And It can be adjusted without hurting the class.

EasymodeX.4062:

I’m level 80 in full exotics, and backstab crits me for 15k (which is my health pool, fyi).

You didn’t say which class you were and which traits/gear/runes/sigils etc. you used to have…

Redscope.6215:

Thieves QQ “L2P” and then this happens: […]
Awesome.

Quite a gleeful guy, aren’t you?

Redscope.6215:

Look, guys, you’re playing an OP class right now. Nerfs have been hitting EVERY patch since release.

Just because there have been nerfs doesn’t mean that the class is overpowered right now or that there must be future nerfs. Just because s.th. has been bad doesn’t imply that it’s still bad. Logic…

Redscope.6215:

Your “L2P” posts show that you’ve never played another class against a skilled thief.
Here’s the issue: Thieves have stealth – Thieves have high mobility – Thieves have high spike damage – That combination spells out one thing, “skill-less dps class” …

Other professions have other advantages. That’s just a bunch of unfounded opinion.

STRanger.5120:

My main is lvl 80 too, don´t have full exotics, and the highest backstab I encountered was for 12K (that was pre-balance/nerf of Assasins signet). Taking my Class (Ele) and build (+0 toughness, +150 vitality), I dealt with it because I deserved it. Can you understand this? Also, Backstab is very far from being an instant ability

/agree

Daeqar.8965:

So, I would really encourage working on the mechanics of all those stacking effects before considering significant changes to raw ability damage coefficients and such. There might even end up being more balanced/sustainable builds out in the wild if that max possible burst capability comes down a bit.

/agree²

bow.6179:

You needlessly nerf the thief and I’m done with this game.

We’ll find new ways, strategies or adjustments to the build(s). The whiners/casuals are probably generally worse players because they can’t improve their gameplay so it should nonetheless be easy for us – the more advanced players – to win.

Busko.7408:

Right… you complain about thief maybe you should try one at 80? […] ohh but thats so OP i want to be able to do that also please Anet nerf guardians they just soak up to much damage.

Patience. Bunker/anchor-guardians are next on the nerf list again

Busko.7408:

As far as i see your pic its several skills combined to your death not just Back stab

That. And he even isn’t (totally) vitality/toughness specced. He’s using a lot of berserker and other stuff, too. Almost 3000 Attack and about 50% crit as a guardian but still complaining about being killed too fast…

Busko.7408:

Here is a pic of one skill doing 2x damage of what you QQ over the back stab: http://i.imgur.com/TLRNW.jpg

Warriors and grenade engineers can have a higher burst than thieves. Shatter mesmers (although they need to build up) can have about the same – theirs isn’t just front-loaded…

Busko.7408:

Bring out the nurf bat everyone run around with a stick poking each other.. yey…

MMO main forums…

Coolmoos.8546:

I DO know… because you can see if they are 80 or not.. and the FOE I was killing had no arrow up next to his level. So Thank you for your constructive post.

Proof?
Nice orb buffs BTW

For the third time: THIS game is not (shouldn´t be) balanced around WvW, get used to it guys….
If you want another WoW, go play the actual one. Thank you very much.

STRanger.5120:

EasymodeX.4062:

The highest I was hit for prior to the Signet change was 18.5k with Backstab.

30k+ damage combo that lands within 0.3 seconds at 900 range.

The important parts: “Prior to signet change” and that 30K+ made-up non-sense number (you cannot meant that seriously, right?).

As Coolmoos indicated, I am not only 100% serious about the 30k damage number, I am being conservative. I used 30k because it’s more believable than the actual ~34k when you add the full combo together and when you really try to stack your damage (Orr truffle steak, popping multiple Signets for Might (I wouldn’t do this on a Thief)).

20k Backstab, 7.5 CND, 6.5k Mug, 2k Air sigil. That’s 36k damage. That overkills me by 21,000 damage.

The kicker is that it’s instant from 900 range. Warriors can hit for 25k+ with Kill Shot. That’s pretty absurd, but that’s ok. They have to have full adrenaline to do it (can’t do it cold), and they have a 2.0 second telegraph (can be enhanced with quickness, but still a 1.0s animation). Thief? 0.25 second dodge or die (and you actually have to realize it’s a Thief unless you really like burning all your endurance on random enemy classes at the start of every fight).

Part of the problem is the stat spread of PvE Berserker gear which is different than the sPvP variety. However, the mechanics of CND-Mug-BS are still broken. Nearly instantaneous burst, with nearly 0 telegraph, and for that much damage? Over 200% of glass HP? Even if you stack Vit and Tough, you will still be downed, or pretty close to it (with exceptions, for example auto-proc Endure Pain or Guardian passive Aegis).

STRanger.5120:

Coolmoos.8546:

Actually is it possible.. here is my thief.. and this was on a level 80 btw

I waited for this
And your foe was? You don´t know? It might be a lvl 1 newbie who accidently clicked “b” and didn´t even had a clue what he´s doing……
Show me this kind of damage by backstab in tPvP, and then I will believe you… (post-signet-change of course).

Btw, I know it was a level 80 because there was no arrow next to his level. Whether he had gear or not is not my problem. But I aim for 80’s when I pvp…

Thanks for your concern though

STRanger.5120:

Coolmoos.8546:

I DO know… because you can see if they are 80 or not.. and the FOE I was killing had no arrow up next to his level. So Thank you for your constructive post.

Proof?
Nice orb buffs BTW

For the third time: THIS game is not (shouldn´t be) balanced around WvW, get used to it guys….
If you want another WoW, go play the actual one. Thank you very much.

WvW HAS to be taken into consideration, considering a very large portion of the playerbase, partake in WvW, you cannot completely discount it…

STRanger.5120:

Coolmoos.8546:

I DO know… because you can see if they are 80 or not.. and the FOE I was killing had no arrow up next to his level. So Thank you for your constructive post.

Proof?
Nice orb buffs BTW

For the third time: THIS game is not (shouldn´t be) balanced around WvW, get used to it guys….
If you want another WoW, go play the actual one. Thank you very much.

LoL, you act as if I control the orb buff…

Coolmoos.8546:

STRanger.5120:

Coolmoos.8546:

I DO know… because you can see if they are 80 or not.. and the FOE I was killing had no arrow up next to his level. So Thank you for your constructive post.

Proof?
Nice orb buffs BTW

For the third time: THIS game is not (shouldn´t be) balanced around WvW, get used to it guys….
If you want another WoW, go play the actual one. Thank you very much.

LoL, you act as if I control the orb buff…

Whether you control it or not, it’s still relevant.

So lets just remove the theif then. That is very simple.
Let the QQ train the go to next class that kicked my butt. Keep this up till there is 1 class left and let the QQ continue that that 1 class needs to be nerfed because it kicked my butt.
Most of this is taken out of context and I am so tired of this crap. How where you built armour vs thief ect?Unless I have full context :you are full of it and have an agenda plain and simple.
I mean come on.
At least till the game is mostly fixed before going over a cliff on nerfing classes.
Pve is a mess+bots,WvW needs help with culling and hackers,Dungeons are out of whack.
Dont get started about RNG and legendaries.

Even without Orb buffs I hit like a truck…. lol

Tribune, while your posts are informative, they are a bit bias.

That. And he even isn’t (totally) vitality/toughness specced. He’s using a lot of berserker and other stuff, too. Almost 3000 Attack and about 50% crit as a guardian but still complaining about being killed too fast…

How am I not totally vitality/toughness specced?
30 Points in Valor
20 Points in Honor
All my jewelry is Toughness/Vitality with toughness/vital sockets
all my runes are toughness/vitality(runes of the solider), my weapon its vitality.
How much more toughness/Vitality should i have, there is something called too much of one stat before you become ineffective?

Patience. Bunker/anchor-guardians are next on the nerf list again

Perhaps for sPvP only, but their damage is still a joke.

For the third time: THIS game is not (shouldn´t be) balanced around WvW, get used to it guys….

Truth, it shouldn’t be balanced around sPvP either.

IDK what these thieves are doing to hit you people for 18k+ dmg. I’ve never seen a backstab anywhere near that and I use Runes of the Thief, Berserkers Amulet, and 30 pts down both power and precision trees.

My backstabs hit for about 5k.

If backstab gets nerfed because a select few people have screen shots of being hit for 18k dmg its gonna screw over the many thieves who run “normal” builds like me into complete uselessness.

Someone SHOW me how your hitting for 18k on a backstab. I want to see exactly what armor , buffs, etc you AND your target are using…cause 18k sounds a bit ridiculous to me after the Signet nerf. (Before the signet nerf, ya maybe….every 1 min or so….but now….i just dont see how)

Rehk.6574:

IDK what these thieves are doing to hit you people for 18k+ dmg. I’ve never seen a backstab anywhere near that and I use Runes of the Thief, Berserkers Amulet, and 30 pts down both power and precision trees.

My backstabs hit for about 5k.

If backstab gets nerfed because a select few people have screen shots of being hit for 18k dmg its gonna screw over the many thieves who run “normal” builds like me into complete uselessness.

Someone SHOW me how your hitting for 18k on a backstab. I want to see exactly what armor , buffs, etc you AND your target are using…cause 18k sounds a bit ridiculous to me after the Signet nerf. (Before the signet nerf, ya maybe….every 1 min or so….but now….i just dont see how)

30 pts down both power and precision trees., this is your problem, that’s not the right spec.

Rehk.6574:

IDK what these thieves are doing to hit you people for 18k+ dmg. I’ve never seen a backstab anywhere near that and I use Runes of the Thief, Berserkers Amulet, and 30 pts down both power and precision trees.

My backstabs hit for about 5k.

If backstab gets nerfed because a select few people have screen shots of being hit for 18k dmg its gonna screw over the many thieves who run “normal” builds like me into complete uselessness.

Someone SHOW me how your hitting for 18k on a backstab. I want to see exactly what armor , buffs, etc you AND your target are using…cause 18k sounds a bit ridiculous to me after the Signet nerf. (Before the signet nerf, ya maybe….every 1 min or so….but now….i just dont see how)

Alot have taken their build from this guy….

Keep in mind.. the pictures I showed were level 80s that obviously weren’t wearing Vit/Tough gear.. So they get hit even harder than in the video.

Mine was already VERY close to this, but then I adjusted a few things This is in SPVP

Hi everyone,

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It seems to me the the main concern is that lots of classes and builds are capable of downing a player in a couple of seconds, with that player have little or no opportunity to escape or counter. Perhaps backstab isn’t the really problem here, but rather how high certain buffs can stack.

I’ve got hit by a 15k 100B the other day… does this mean we have to nerf warriors? No, it doesn’t. It means i have to play better against a warrior next time and NOT GET HIT BY 100B.

Or i could just create a bunch of “nerf 100B” threads and laugh at them once they’re nerfed… seems what the majority is doing anyway…

Shizzlenit.7648:

I’ve got hit by a 15k 100B the other day… does this mean we have to nerf warriors? No, it doesn’t. It means i have to play better against a warrior next time and NOT GET HIT BY 100B.

Or i could just create a bunch of “nerf 100B” threads and laugh at them once they’re nerfed… seems what the majority is doing anyway…

The problem with this is two things. Its not the basis of their attack every 1 minute, they might be able to do this once if all the conditions are right, but thieves can very easily do their combo with little effort.

“The problem with this is two things. Its not the basis of their attack every 1 minute, they might be able to do this once if all the conditions are right, but thieves can very easily do their combo with little effort.”

And then what? be useless for almost a minute? Awesome. I’ve played the insta kill backstab build for a while and believe me, it sucks. It’s gimmicky at best but thats a bout it. If anything goes wrong u’re pretty much a free kill. And it has been nerfed already (the Assassin Signet).

I’m running another (much more reliable) backstab build at the moment which doesnt insta gib players since it doesnt have the same damage output, if backstab gets nerfed it will be useless and i have to go for pure damage once again to even remotely deal any decent damage with it. No thanks.

I would be ok with a damage cap on it (like 10k or something) tho.

Pretty much, backstab specc is nice to kill baddies and squishies. But as soon as you are against better players (or in a teamfight) the specc sucks. A reliable condition Pistol/Dagger is much much better.

If you are going to nerf the spike damage of Backstab builds, the best way to do it is to make it so teleports do not interrupt casts and let you finish them. Make it so teleports (steal, shadowstep etc) cancel the current action (including stomps, and this is for all classes).

This alone would dramatically change even the most hardcore of Backstab builds. I play Thief by the way, this isn’t a nerf cry. I have thought this should be changed since I first discovered it.

Whatever you do, do not change the damage on backstab.

The damage is fine. It needs a function nerf. It needs to break stealth upon using it. Only 1 backstab per stealth.

Imagine if a mesmer shattered a target that was blocking, but their illusions didn’t die and their mindwrack stayed off CD. They could do it again and again and again until finally it lands.

This is how backstab functions right now. It needs to be fixed.

Don’t make the same mistake ya’ll made with Pistol Whip.