Guild Wars 2

Zero Day.2594:

That’s cute…

Please hit us harder….

Oh I’ll hit you as hard as you want bby

I think I’d be happy if I see in the full patch notes, that they’ve actually given Withdraw than extra 10% heal, which was supposed to happen.

Most acro traits need a rework, 7s Vigor from Vigorous recovery makes little difference, kitten is almost enough to refill one bar, right now there is only one GM trait that’s even GM worthy. There is less damage mitigation for the loss of vitality stat, since they released the new trait system.

to fix something, you must first admit it is broken

Black Frog.9274:

to fix something, you must first admit it is broken

Black Frog.9274:

to fix something, you must first admit it is broken

+1

Cynz.9437:

You forgot that they think thief is “really strong” because of +1 lol.

Obviously they don’t, since they’re handing out buffs to thieves.

You can spot the things they thought were really strong. Like castrating ice bow and increasing the cooldown on feel my wrath by 50%. Or chipping away at Ele’s offense with a string of smaller nerfs. If thieves had similar over-tuned tools, the hammer would have fallen on those too.

^^ Absolutely right.

The only thing that was strong after June patch was Elementalist, Mesmer and Guardian cause these got nerfed one way to another. The others got the buff and support they " deserve."

Oh no what horrible thief nerfs! (Oh wait, nothing was actually nerfed on thief)

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

…
p/p 20% damage buff? – Damage was never the issue. The issue is that #3 is the only skill this weapon set uses.
…

Damage has always been an issue. Its far weaker than any of the other weaponsets available. The problem isn’t the fact that Unload is the only skill being used either, its the fact that the utilities provided by Body Shot and Head Shot are terricrap most of the time due to the massive initiative hog which in return hurts the DPS further. Vital Shot is just in a very bad place, a skill that doesn’t know “which sex it represents”, condi or power, on top of having a ridiculously long “cast time”, when compared to the damage output. Black Powder is the only situational skill that has its uses, but again, the heavy initiative cost gimps the DPS in turn. Also the fact is that we spend far more time using the subpar Vital Shot than doing anything else, due to both of the initiative using skills that we do use, Unload & Black Powder, are massive initiative hogs and our options are either to provide the smoke field and blinds to our group and ONLY use Vital Shot for DPS or to say screw even the little utility we might be able to provide, so we can deal damage that is better than the Vital Shot scheit, but still subpar when compared to anything any other weaponset would be dishing out. On top of the flat damage buff that P/P seems to be recieving, it needs some form of AoE capability, best option being pierce as bounce is unlikely to come back.

To be honest, Body Shot needs to be completely redesigned, with the current version of it being flushed down the toilet and having it never looked at again. Head Shot could be saved, by ramping up the daze time to 3/4s or even 1s and then just adjust the initiative cost to 5 or 6 initiative. 1/4s daze for 4 inititiative is just ridiculously bad and not worth using unless you can interrupt something completely catastrophic to your entire team with it. It would have no heavy PvP ramifications either as the attack would still have lots of counters, such as dodges and projectile reflects etc. and nothing would prevent a player from just soaking through 3-4s of daze(Under the kittenumption that a thief would be running at full initiative mid-fight, instead of just the start of it.) either, instead of using the many counters to said mechanic, if the thief would feel like using all of their possible DPS capability on locking a person out of the equasion for a few seconds.

Sidenote; I guess a-/s-/s-/umption really is swear word.

Headshot: “1/4s daze for 4 inititiative is just ridiculously bad and not worth using unless you can interrupt something completely catastrophic to your entire team with it.”

What?! In PvP this skill is perfect. You have to look out, be careful when to use it (stabi, block, invuln, etc), but if used in the right moment it can be a game-changing component —> interrupting banner twice, someone rezzing/stomping, etc. 4 ini are worth it and secure that it wont be spammed. Don´t use it mindless. Spamming it should be punished (as its now).

Don´t know exactly how it is in PvE-enviroment, but to get some defiance-stacks down it works, too.
Damage from stuff like unload of course should be weeker, its channeled, more attacks (favoring sigil-procs, trait-procs, etc) and ranged. Backstab is melee, from behind and you have to be in stealth. In the right hands even P/P can be very powerful, but still lacking things that make us important in PvP —> mobility.

You have a point shimekiri. However, if head shot / body shot / autoattack on pistol are to be competitive DPS wise they will need far more than a 20% damage buff. Personally I would prefer a change in functionality in #2, #5 and #4, since p/p already has a good source of damage.

Karl : " I admit pistols are a bit lackluster "

buffs the damage and calls it a day

Okaaaaaaay…

Tabootrinket.2631:

Karl : " I admit pistols are a bit lackluster "

buffs the damage and calls it a day

Okaaaaaaay…

exactly.. the main problem with pistols is not the dmg but the survivability and flexibility it lacks….

—Vigoroous Recovery: changed from 5s to 7s.(noone would use this trait even if it gave a day of vigor)
—Expeditious Dodger: Changed Swiftness from 2sec to 4sec. (which is still 3.25 s effectively cuz dodgin ovewrites swiftness speed)

Conclusion: YESS ACRO NEW META

P/D condition set, so damage buff is useless, P/P is power set but lacks of survivability so the problem was not the damage.
Karl missed the point once again.

Quadox.7834:

Oh no what horrible thief nerfs! (Oh wait, nothing was actually nerfed on thief)

Well, this notes aren´t final, am I right? Still plenty of time to think about nerfs. :P

- Thief Pistol getting damage buffs – 20%+
- Potent Poison – Poison damage increase going from 10% to 33%.
- Vigorous Recovery – Vigor duration going from 5s to 7s.
- Expeditious Dodger – Getting a 100% duration buff from 2s of swiftness to 4s

First one is a buff, but P/P is still worthless in PvP (not that I care, I don´t like pistols in that game —> using smallest pistol available ingame). Damage isn´t the problem here. But I have to add that daredevil actually brings interesting stuff to P/P —> Pistol # 5 —> dodge to gain stealth —> sneak attack + unload + unload —> Pistol #5
That actually doesn´t sound great. Gonna have a lot of Unload-pew-pew-pew-heroes running around.

Potent Poison: We got that from rangers, right? It was 50% when they had it… Have I more to say? First nerfed, now partly buffed.

Vigorous Recovery: We had that before through boon-duration. I was wondering about it at the beginning. A lot of classes (everyone? >not thieves at laest<) got some boon-duration on their traits.

Expeditious Dodger: Mostly the same thing as vigorous recovery, but I think its a bit more then it was back prior to the patch. Gonna look how it is then with Pack-runes, less dodges, but now some more swiftness.
Acrobatic still lackluster though… ^^

Tabootrinket.2631:

Karl : " I admit pistols are a bit lackluster "

buffs the damage and calls it a day

Okaaaaaaay…

I’m still waiting for Unload having evade frames that will make it worth thinking about picking it up. He could change Body Shot to apply weakness it won’t do much, stop it with just damage boost.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

You have a point shimekiri. However, if head shot / body shot / autoattack on pistol are to be competitive DPS wise they will need far more than a 20% damage buff. Personally I would prefer a change in functionality in #2, #5 and #4, since p/p already has a good source of damage.

They don’t need to be competitive in the DPS sense of things, they need to be made worthwhile to use. Head Shot has its rare uses, sure, as an interrupt like I said in my earlier post, but it could be much more than that. Body Shot is the primary problem skill as it isn’t really useful for anything. It needs to be redesigned. I’m fine with Unload and Vital Shot being the primary DPS abilities, however, Vital Shot will need to decide at some point, is it going to be condi or power as in its current state, its bad for both.(Should be power as is Unload. Otherwise all the damage of P/P would come from Unload, which would mean it would have to be buffed to ungodly levels to compensate, which wouldn’t be good either.)

Black Powder is a great source of smoke fields and on-demand blinds and I wouldn’t really touch it that much, perhaps lower the initiative cost by 1- 2 or increase the duration of it by 2s. It still locks you in a small area for its duration anyway if you want to utilize it, so an increase in its duration would be the alternative that would force you to stay in it to utilize it fully, wheras lowering the initiative cost would allow for more freedom of movement as it would be cheaper to re-apply if you’re forced to move for one reason or the other.(Just to be clear, I’d be only after one of the two buff ideas on the skill. Either one would be fine imo.)

You guys think there will be a lot for us on Tuesday, or do you think this is it?

Kocoff.7582:

You guys think there will be a lot for us on Tuesday, or do you think this is it?

I think

Kocoff.7582:

You guys think there will be a lot for us on Tuesday, or do you think this is it?

If I had to bet money on it I’d say we’ve seen 4 out of about 6 of the changes for thieves (with pistols getting a little more detail as to how much each individual skill’s damage was buffed). A little hard to tell as the announcer was clearly digging into stuff that might otherwise have been saved for Tuesday and they had some painful time-management issues going on.

But overall anything we haven’t seen yet is going to be small buffs to stuff very few people use presently. Maybe enough to reconsider them in niche builds, but nothing that drives a new highly competitive “meta” build for thieves.

Well…
Aside of the reveal thingy, atleast we didn’t get nerfed this time around?

Thief is dead. Simple.
Thief dev team is lazy. Nothing is done right, new spec is not even a new job they took old animation all together and say “hey now you are bruiser with 11k HP, please dodge”.
+ This last patch note preview. What a joke, all they said was bullkitten improvement that noone cares about. Dev don’t even know what is wrong with pistol so they came like “Hey, buff damage, hihi enjoy”. They don’t even bring D/D to the table, hell they won’t improve it.

I think Daredevil spec is simply a vizualisation of the attention thief gets right now. All classes buf thief got shiny new mechanics with really good work on it, new animations, new pets, new effects, new mechanics, new everything. Thief got old junk animations, stupid synergy, no really new mechanics, no new effects, nothing. That’s what you can expect in the future.

In a sentence: Reroll or leave the game. What’s the point of playing thief anymore?

Tabootrinket.2631:

Kocoff.7582:

You guys think there will be a lot for us on Tuesday, or do you think this is it?

I think

hahahahaahhaaa
The sense of humor in this forum is OP.

Drunge.4035:

Thief is dead. Simple.
Thief dev team is lazy. Nothing is done right, new spec is not even a new job they took old animation all together and say “hey now you are bruiser with 11k HP, please dodge”.
+ This last patch note preview. What a joke, all they said was bullkitten improvement that noone cares about. Dev don’t even know what is wrong with pistol so they came like “Hey, buff damage, hihi enjoy”. They don’t even bring D/D to the table, hell they won’t improve it.

I think Daredevil spec is simply a vizualisation of the attention thief gets right now. All classes buf thief got shiny new mechanics with really good work on it, new animations, new pets, new effects, new mechanics, new everything. Thief got old junk animations, stupid synergy, no really new mechanics, no new effects, nothing. That’s what you can expect in the future.

In a sentence: Reroll or leave the game. What’s the point of playing thief anymore?

Don’t reroll, then the terrorists win. We need to unite and show ANet that they have to change how Thief is being handled.

Shalien.9018:

Drunge.4035:

Thief is dead. Simple.
Thief dev team is lazy. Nothing is done right, new spec is not even a new job they took old animation all together and say “hey now you are bruiser with 11k HP, please dodge”.
+ This last patch note preview. What a joke, all they said was bullkitten improvement that noone cares about. Dev don’t even know what is wrong with pistol so they came like “Hey, buff damage, hihi enjoy”. They don’t even bring D/D to the table, hell they won’t improve it.

I think Daredevil spec is simply a vizualisation of the attention thief gets right now. All classes buf thief got shiny new mechanics with really good work on it, new animations, new pets, new effects, new mechanics, new everything. Thief got old junk animations, stupid synergy, no really new mechanics, no new effects, nothing. That’s what you can expect in the future.

In a sentence: Reroll or leave the game. What’s the point of playing thief anymore?

Don’t reroll, then the terrorists win. We need to unite and show ANet that they have to change how Thief is being handled.

^^ So much truth. Don’t let those tyrants win. I main a Thief, last time I rerolled, I made another Thief.

So are they only changing pistols for thiefs?…. Poor Thiefs

Shalien.9018:

Don’t reroll, then the terrorists win. We need to unite and show ANet that they have to change how Thief is being handled.

For as often as you and I don’t see eye to eye, we’re on the same page here.

((…saving up initiative to unload-unload-unload on Tuesday…))

Kocoff.7582:

You guys think there will be a lot for us on Tuesday, or do you think this is it?

We’ll get a lot of the “fixed description” tuesday.

edit: The only satisfaction I’ll get is still rolling the other professions because the vast majority roll glass cannon and don’t carry condi cleanse.

I wonder if the full patchnotes will have a Merciful Ambush bug fix.
For those unware, this trait gives 20% rez speed instead of 10%, and is part why we are so good at being the medic of the team.

By the way, you guys are nuts. Thief is looking awesome even if we didn’t get any changes ourselves. D/D ele and PU Mesmers nerfs makes us even better in conquest. If Eles go to fresh air, we’re very good at fighting those.

Btw can we talk about how apparently scrappers and druids (especially druids) traveling speed will be on par with a Daredevil who traits with dash ? (you know, that part where Daredevil is supposed to excel )
Except at the end of the run, the Daredevil will arrive with almost zero endurance left for battle.

I mean : perma swiftness trait for druid + that traveling skill on 10s cooldown on staff,
and that 3x rocket boost on scrapper’s hammer with 1200 range…
(like we have to burn all our 3 bars to get 1200 range while they just have to pop one skill on 10s cooldown to get that 1200, like what ? )

Are you seriously complaining about map traveling speed ?
One Dash and 1 shortbow 5 and we out speed those 2.

It’s not like current engi / rangers don’t have plenty of swiftness access. It’s almost a given for medium armors classes to have it.

We kind of have perma Switness too on Dash. 8 seconds of Switness on Dash pretty much leads to perma Switness. I get your point and all, but Thief mobility is not something to be worried about. That’s the one thing they cannot nerf.

Not jixing anything Devs.. not jixing anything.

Nocta.5274:

Are you seriously complaining about map traveling speed ?
One Dash and 1 shortbow 5 and we out speed those 2.

It’s not like current engi / rangers don’t have plenty of swiftness access. It’s almost a given for medium armors classes to have it.

It’s our only advantage, and we still need the shortbow for that…
I’m just pointing out that devs said " mobility is something that should be specific for classes like thieves " (talking about the reaper), and then they pop classes which can do other things WHILE being able to travel as fast as a Daredevil… except if we still get vampirized by that said shortbow.

Have I pointed out that those druids and scrappers don’t need to rely on their core to get that traveling advantage ?

It always comes down to the shortbow. So basically what you’re saying too is that even in the field Daredevil should have provided, it gives no edge.

Also yeah, for that we ALSO need to trait to dash. So bound or lotus users becomes turtles in comparison. smh

The traveling speed was like the selling point of everything the devs are doing on Daredevil. It almost always comes down to that when Karl respond in the forum. But here was a reality check.

DD subpar everywhere (equalpar in their forte)

Driften.8716:

Whats not appropriate is the level of neglect that the Thief gets. You can only kick a dead horse for so long…

While the thief is in a pretty bad place right now, lets not forget our Ranger brothers. Since pre-release they were nerfed into uselessness only to see a revival in the last year.

If you are patient, stick it out, let them continually nerf the class often with stealth nerfs, make promised patches that they pull at the last minute, live through a dedicated balance patch to your class that only improves underwater weapons… you may one day live long enough to see the thief get raised from the ashes to be mediocre.

Shimekiri.1580:

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

…
p/p 20% damage buff? – Damage was never the issue. The issue is that #3 is the only skill this weapon set uses.
…

Damage has always been an issue. Its far weaker than any of the other weaponsets available. The problem isn’t the fact that Unload is the only skill being used either, its the fact that the utilities provided by Body Shot and Head Shot are terricrap most of the time due to the massive initiative hog which in return hurts the DPS further. Vital Shot is just in a very bad place, a skill that doesn’t know “which sex it represents”, condi or power, on top of having a ridiculously long “cast time”, when compared to the damage output. Black Powder is the only situational skill that has its uses, but again, the heavy initiative cost gimps the DPS in turn. Also the fact is that we spend far more time using the subpar Vital Shot than doing anything else, due to both of the initiative using skills that we do use, Unload & Black Powder, are massive initiative hogs and our options are either to provide the smoke field and blinds to our group and ONLY use Vital Shot for DPS or to say screw even the little utility we might be able to provide, so we can deal damage that is better than the Vital Shot scheit, but still subpar when compared to anything any other weaponset would be dishing out. On top of the flat damage buff that P/P seems to be recieving, it needs some form of AoE capability, best option being pierce as bounce is unlikely to come back.

To be honest, Body Shot needs to be completely redesigned, with the current version of it being flushed down the toilet and having it never looked at again. Head Shot could be saved, by ramping up the daze time to 3/4s or even 1s and then just adjust the initiative cost to 5 or 6 initiative. 1/4s daze for 4 inititiative is just ridiculously bad and not worth using unless you can interrupt something completely catastrophic to your entire team with it. It would have no heavy PvP ramifications either as the attack would still have lots of counters, such as dodges and projectile reflects etc. and nothing would prevent a player from just soaking through 3-4s of daze(Under the kittenumption that a thief would be running at full initiative mid-fight, instead of just the start of it.) either, instead of using the many counters to said mechanic, if the thief would feel like using all of their possible DPS capability on locking a person out of the equasion for a few seconds.

Sidenote; I guess a-/s-/s-/umption really is swear word.

I think the daze duration is fine on headshot. The intent is the interrupt which can be further enhanced with pressure strike or the new Pulmonary Impact.

The boost to damage helps immensely but the AA needs one further tweak and that lowering the time to 1/3 of a second so three shots can be applied per second. This will not overpower P/D condition as it only an extra stack of bleed and the p/d build did regress condition wise with changes.

1/3 a second with a 20 percent boost to damage for a power build will make Vital shot viable when conserving initiative in a power build.

Number 2 needs to be redone. It needs utility of some sort. A combo/stn/immob break with an evade would work akin to the RFI (without added ini) married to the weaponset.

Coronit.9432:

Headshot: “1/4s daze for 4 inititiative is just ridiculously bad and not worth using unless you can interrupt something completely catastrophic to your entire team with it.”

What?! In PvP this skill is perfect. You have to look out, be careful when to use it (stabi, block, invuln, etc), but if used in the right moment it can be a game-changing component —> interrupting banner twice, someone rezzing/stomping, etc. 4 ini are worth it and secure that it wont be spammed. Don´t use it mindless. Spamming it should be punished (as its now).

Don´t know exactly how it is in PvE-enviroment, but to get some defiance-stacks down it works, too.
Damage from stuff like unload of course should be weeker, its channeled, more attacks (favoring sigil-procs, trait-procs, etc) and ranged. Backstab is melee, from behind and you have to be in stealth. In the right hands even P/P can be very powerful, but still lacking things that make us important in PvP —> mobility.

Like said, Head Shot has its uses, but it could be more than just an emergency interrupt, if you, by sheer luck, happen to be targeting a player with said abilities that could screw over your entire team.

Also, I’d like to point out that on the contrary, the damage should be atleast on par with what the melees deal, as when you’re doing ranged combat, you’re forsaking might stacking etc. that happens in melee range.(PvE side.) Regarding PvP, the range is already shorter than what the other classes have in their ranged weapon a-/rsenal(Really? This needs to be censored aswell?), so I don’t see the “you’re ranged, you should deal less damage” concept applying here, when there are already others doing better DPS from far longer distances than what we’re able to.(On top of having FAR better survivability than us, but getting side-tracked…) Add on top of that the fact that ranged weapons have specialized counter mechanics that melees don’t need to deal with, such as reflect.(On top of us needing to deal with EVERY mechanic that nullifies melee damage.) Now, consider also the fact that when using P/P, we have LESS survivability and LESS mobility than with any of our melee counterparts and we have no AoE capability of any kind, at all.(No access to stealth outside of Hide in Shadows or Shadow Refuge. No mobility skills of any kind, compared to f.ex. D/X Heartseeker or S/X Infiltrator’s Strike. You can also add evade frames to this list from S/P f.ex. with its Pistol Whip, which not only stuns the target for a short period of time, but gives you evasion after the first hit connects, until the skill has finished casting.[And all of the hits deal AoE damage, on top of doing more single target damage aswell, when compared to Unload.])

TL;DR, P/P is a pure DPS set. It offers no mobility or survivability when compared to the other alternatives, it deals less damage than the alternatives and it has worse utility than the alternatives. Either the damage needs to be buffed, a lot more than what’s already coming, so it’s at the level it needs to be in, to counter these quite severe disadvantages, or the damage is buffed to be atleast on par, while Body Shot and Vital Shot will be fully reworked. Preferably keep the damage of Vital Shot where it is going to be after this upcoming buff, but reduce the cast from 1/2s to 1/4s and then change the Body Shot to some kind of low-cost/no-cost(With a short CD. 10s?) disengage type skill, which will allow us to open a gap on a target getting too close for comfort, which could also still apply the short immobilize effect(Which could/should be buffed to 2s duration.), which would strengthen the gap opener capability of it. After just these small changes, all we’d need is a little love in the AoE department via a pierce effect f.ex. and the skillset would be pretty much fixed.

Kocoff.7582:

We kind of have perma Switness too on Dash. 8 seconds of Switness on Dash pretty much leads to perma Switness. I get your point and all, but Thief mobility is not something to be worried about. That’s the one thing they cannot nerf.

Not jixing anything Devs.. not jixing anything.

I think the problem here is that we aren’t even that mobile without shortbow.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Kocoff.7582:

We kind of have perma Switness too on Dash. 8 seconds of Switness on Dash pretty much leads to perma Switness. I get your point and all, but Thief mobility is not something to be worried about. That’s the one thing they cannot nerf.

Not jixing anything Devs.. not jixing anything.

I think the problem here is that we aren’t even that mobile without shortbow.

it depends whether you talk in combat or out of combat. There a number of ports in combat that give great mobility without SB

babazhook.6805:

it depends whether you talk in combat or out of combat. There a number of ports in combat that give great mobility without SB

It would definitely be out of combat. Shortbow is used for it’s travel utility, as I’m sure you know, but no other weapon comes even close to matching it. Admittedly, it’s combat potential is fairly low also, but I’d like the travel utility to be somewhat diffused into the aspect of the class rather than have it all concentrated in this one weapon.

Edit: using Irenio’s words: it’s just not healthy for the class

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

babazhook.6805:

it depends whether you talk in combat or out of combat. There a number of ports in combat that give great mobility without SB

It would definitely be out of combat. Shortbow is used for it’s travel utility, as I’m sure you know, but no other weapon comes even close to matching it. Admittedly, it’s combat potential is fairly low also, but I’d like the travel utility to be somewhat diffused into the aspect of the class rather than have it all concentrated in this one weapon.

Edit: using Irenio’s words: it’s just not healthy for the class

At the same time were SBS mobility diffused to other sets no one would have reason to use SB and would warrant changes to that weapon.

In WvW when I was running a perma swiftness build prior to the major patch a few months ago the swiftness was plenty to get me around the map. Right now I use SB but when we get access to swiftness again I will go back to no SB

Kocoff.7582:

^^ So much truth. Don’t let those tyrants win. I main a Thief, last time I rerolled, I made another Thief.

Lol – same here ;)

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

It would definitely be out of combat. Shortbow is used for it’s travel utility, as I’m sure you know, but no other weapon comes even close to matching it.

I use it to “travel” but also to cap camps, weaken those with healing signets, evading necros and keeping the downed downed.

My feelings on 20% buff

Tabootrinket.2631:

Karl : " I admit pistols are a bit lackluster "

buffs the damage and calls it a day

babazhook.6805:

At the same time were SBS mobility diffused to other sets no one would have reason to use SB and would warrant changes to that weapon.

I think that changes to this weapon are exactly what is needed.

Jana.6831:

I use it to “travel” but also to cap camps, weaken those with healing signets, evading necros and keeping the downed downed.

But you admit that the main purpose of this weapon is for I-Arrow.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

babazhook.6805:

At the same time were SBS mobility diffused to other sets no one would have reason to use SB and would warrant changes to that weapon.

I think that changes to this weapon are exactly what is needed.

Jana.6831:

I use it to “travel” but also to cap camps, weaken those with healing signets, evading necros and keeping the downed downed.

But you admit that the main purpose of this weapon is for I-Arrow.

I wouldn’t say so. Of course I use I-arrow a lot, but I use kinda everything sb offers: range cleave, short-distance-AOE/blast finisher, evade if needed, poison on downs and surprise shot for CC/projectile finisher, etc —> great feeling when you got TWO surprise shots up, slow arrow-speed ftw.
Its a alternative weapon if you need stay ranged, want to give support through the blast finisher….
I love the combo: surprise shot → gunk (stolen) → maybe more gunk →blast finisher for damage and chaos-armor → lot of fun
Shortbow is mostly great in mobility cause of z-axis (is that the correct word?) teleports. I,m not sure how it would be on flat ground against other classes.
I think a year ago someone wanted to see what is faster, heartseeker or I-arrow. Somethings changed since then, but the result was just a small advantage on I-arrow. (Everything normal for speedwas used → swiftness, etc)

And no, I don’t think there are changes needed. Taking away some utility and improving damage wouldn’t be great. —> damage outside of bouncing and clusters still very low., while utility-nerfs would harm the weapon a lot.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

But you admit that the main purpose of this weapon is for I-Arrow.

No, I don’t. I guess that it’s the main purpose in pvp, but I’m a world versus world player and in fact I use all SB skills in that game mode.

Coronit.9432:

I wouldn’t say so. Of course I use I-arrow a lot, but I use kinda everything sb offers: range cleave, short-distance-AOE/blast finisher, evade if needed, poison on downs and surprise shot for CC/projectile finisher, etc —> great feeling when you got TWO surprise shots up, slow arrow-speed ftw.
Its a alternative weapon if you need stay ranged, want to give support through the blast finisher….
I love the combo: surprise shot -> gunk (stolen) -> maybe more gunk ->blast finisher for damage and chaos-armor -> lot of fun
Shortbow is mostly great in mobility cause of z-axis (is that the correct word?) teleports. I,m not sure how it would be on flat ground against other classes.
I think a year ago someone wanted to see what is faster, heartseeker or I-arrow. Somethings changed since then, but the result was just a small advantage on I-arrow. (Everything normal for speedwas used -> swiftness, etc)

And no, I don’t think there are changes needed. Taking away some utility and improving damage wouldn’t be great. —> damage outside of bouncing and clusters still very low., while utility-nerfs would harm the weapon a lot.

Jana.6831:

No, I don’t. I guess that it’s the main purpose in pvp, but I’m a world versus world player and in fact I use all SB skills in that game mode.

The issue that I’m having with shortbow is that, as a thief, not taking shortbow causes you to lose the majority of your mobility. Because of this, I think that the class itself needs to become faster. If that happens, then shortbow will have to be reworked a bit. I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t want the “speed” aspect of thief to be exclusively tied to the weapon, but rather to the class.

To summarize, I think that shortbow should be a powerful combat utility weapon, but I feel that the mobility that it offers should be in the theme of the class as a whole, rather than in just this one weapon.

I’m feeling like come Tuesday, I want to pitch the Devs something like~

• Infiltrator’s Shot. Range 600. 5 Initiative. Shadow step to ground target and apply x3 vulnerability for 5s in a 120 radius.

~as a re-work/replacement for Pistol #2 Body Shot and shorter range/lower init-cost alternative to Infiltrator’s Arrow.