Guild Wars 2

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1slZrh_ND6Bu6qYm8Yzmh5HMO43RhcE9_GLRt046i0JE/edit?usp=sharing

Changes moved to a google doc because I’m out of space and can’t edit.

[Reserved for later use]

No…plz stop the powercreep. Other classes need to be toned down…dont buff thieves. -_-

I guess these suggestions are mostly PvP focused? Nothing I can say about that, but in terms of PvE, here are the main things that I disagree with.

Unload: In tougher maps, the one and only thing that my vanilla P/P main brings to the table, the one thing that stops her being a completely useless laughing stock and maybe bring Thief a little bit of respect, is the noticeable power of her Unload.

It’s noticeably more powerful than most other classes can manage, but not anything more than ‘noticeably’. The trade-off being that it’s single target only (most classes’ noticeably less powerful attacks are cleaves or AoE), and I’ve had to sacrifice everything else in my build to get that noticeably more powerful spike damage (their noticeably less powerful attacks are with builds that have retained a lot of overall utility and survivability).

I agree that it’s boring as heck only using that one skill, plus the rubbish AA just because it’s free; but the way to fix that is to put the interesting stuff into the skills that I don’t use (that being over half of them), and not nerfing the one and only thing that they got right. Nerfing Unload wouldn’t make me use the other skills more; it’d just make me stop playing.

Sundering Strikes: With my set up, I do more damage with Sundering Strikes (coupled with DA’s Exposed Weakness) than I do with Practiced Tolerance. From there it comes down to a choice between a high-spike damage curve (Ankle Shots) or flatter but higher as a mean average – and more reliable – damage curve (Sundering Strikes). Sure, I go spike, but like having the option to go flatter if I want.

Dagger Storm: That’s my ‘Oh kitten!’ button, so the deal tends to be ’I’m alive as long as it’s still casting; once it stops, either everyone else is dead or I am.’ So I need that duration as is. Also bearing in mind the CDs of the Sigils (Air and Fire), that also help here, while Dagger Storm is running.

I agree that you could shave maybe 5-10 secs off its CD and that’d feel about right, but anything more and it’d be far too OP.

Obviously there’s too much in your suggestions to cover everything, and you’ve got some great ideas in there – but these are the things that jumped out that would have the largest negative effect on me personally.

Cheers.

Locuz.2651:

No…plz stop the powercreep. Other classes need to be toned down…dont buff thieves. -_-

Core thief has needed a buff since before HoT was released.
That being said though, alot of OP’s idea’s are far too much.

Thieves need their defensive traitlines buffed (Acro is a dumpster fire and SA is not far off) and spec diversity increased by taking some of the functionality in mug, bountiful theft, and the steal reduction of SOH and making it baseline (as well as all of preparedness).

Those are the main problems. There’s also a lot of little things (CS being wholly inferior to DA, adept and master tiers of DA being locked into mug and panic strike, etc etc)

Locuz.2651:

No…plz stop the powercreep. Other classes need to be toned down…dont buff thieves. -_-

I haven’t even mentioned the overall thief buffs. (which Karl promised in his blogpost, rightfully, might I add.)
These were just the unused/buggy things.

AsurasRCute.4136:

I guess these suggestions are mostly PvP focused?

Yep but they would be also healthy for pve, IMO

Hi, please make my class OPAF.

Rome.3192:

Hi, please make my class OPAF.

Hi, please don’t make your class OP as I still want to be able to kill you without any retaliation whatsoever.

I will be happy if they put a nerf on the bunker/AoE builds that are dominating right now. They can put a cherry on top by putting Ricochet back in the mix and make CnD misses not cost full initiative.

Straegen.2938:

I will be happy if they put a nerf on the bunker/AoE builds that are dominating right now. They can put a cherry on top by putting Ricochet back in the mix and make CnD misses not cost full initiative.

Yeah but still everyone would use d/p or staff + sb. And some overall thief improvement is required because they fell behind since expac. They shouldn’t be favored in most 1v1’s ofc just like last meta before the expac, but at least they weren’t worthless.

Instead of ricochet they should just add a pierce effect IMO, I’ve never liked RNG immobs.

Call me crazy, but I honestly think that thief in PvP doesn’t need any balance changes at all. I think that if the power creep of other professions is addressed, thieves will be in a solid spot.

PvE on the other hand…there just needs to be some reason to take a thief to end game content.

Dahkeus.8243:

Call me crazy, but I honestly think that thief in PvP doesn’t need any balance changes at all.

You are crazy and didn’t read the post. I’m not saying “plz buff Vault, Backstab, and all the meta traits so that thief will be op.”
I’m not even saying changes about thief vs other classes but about thief build vs thief build.

Kicker.8203:

Dahkeus.8243:

Call me crazy, but I honestly think that thief in PvP doesn’t need any balance changes at all.

You are crazy and didn’t read the post. I’m not saying “plz buff Vault, Backstab, and all the meta traits so that thief will be op.”
I’m not even saying changes about thief vs other classes but about thief build vs thief build.

Yea, and I didn’t say you are either, lol.

Kicker.8203:

Yeah but still everyone would use d/p or staff + sb. And some overall thief improvement is required because they fell behind since expac. They shouldn’t be favored in most 1v1’s ofc just like last meta before the expac, but at least they weren’t worthless.

S/P is very powerful right now. Staff and D/P are also in good spots. S/D could use some serious love. D/D needs an adjustment to the risk/reward. Shortbow is OK but they should bring back the spammable Cluster Bomb as that skill is now mostly useless.

Kicker.8203:

Instead of ricochet they should just add a pierce effect IMO, I’ve never liked RNG immobs.

P/P was the thieves only reliable AoE spammable attack when Ricochet was in the mix. It was one of the few hard counters to clone spam Mesmers and allowed a thief to apply group pressure in skirmish which now only the staff can do. If it had a mobility component or they brought back AoE on it, it would be worthy once again. Pierce alone won’t restore the weaponset to its former fun play style.

Yay, they removed sword aftercasts and split Bandit’s defense!

I updated the Original Post!

finally a good post
i agree with nearly all the points but leave staff mastery as it is and this marked for death skill doesnt seem fully fledged out
add fixing thief guild and ambush to the list, they suck

I like most stuff here but Rome has a point. Implementing even half of buffs here would require implementing same amount of “buffs” other class subforums are proposing in similar threads. For next balance patch I just want everything they will bring + baseline Preparedness.

Good suggestions tho.

I like your suggestions and insight for the sword and off hand dagger weapons.

The trait line insight and suggestions are worth being looked into as well.

Updated the post all around. Most notably Death Blossom and Acrobatics tratline.

Suggestion for acro:
Instead of making it provide boons duration as that’s already a problem, why not make it provide a more sustained approach to combat so maybe regen x amount of hp per second while under the effects of vigor. Similar to scrapper’s swiftness regen it wouldn’t be over the top but it would be just enough to give thief a higher skirmishing ability and more recovery potential when it gets whacked with a massive aoe.

Suggestion for sword 3/stealth interactions with effects:
Have flanking strike cycle on blocks but not on evades or blinds (I mean it’s supposed to cycle when you hit something so I don’t see why it doesn’t cycle as you have definitely hit something it’s just the hit didn’t do damage) (also gives more counterplay to block heavy classes as an s/d thief but can’t be spammed without losing all your initiative) But in parallel have stealth stripped (but not apply reveal) when a backstab or other stealth skill is blocked (still functions as it currently does for blinds and evades) Not applying reveal allows to thief to throw a bs into a block and not be totally screwed as they can recover by just stealthing again assuming they have the resources to do so but it also allows us to justify flanking strike cycling to larcenous on blocks without backlash from the community.

I would leave daredevil staff master as it is. D/p does not need more access to evades as it already can compete with s/d evades thanks to daredevil and has too many defenses atm.

Rest of the stuff didn’t look over a ton as I’m not really interested in developing huge post about my opinions atm (trust me I’m doing you a favor)

Ario.8964:

Suggestion for acro:
Instead of making it provide boons duration as that’s already a problem(…)

Suggestion for sword 3/stealth interactions with effects:
Have flanking strike cycle on blocks but not on evades or blinds.

Boon duration? how is that a problem? most other classes have ~20% boon duration as a minor trat.
Acrobatics used to give 30% boon duration but when trait stats were removed acro was never compensated despite other classes were.
Thieves aren’t like guardians who push out a flood of boons to both allies and themselves anyway.

Flanking Strike: now that you say it it feels pretty obligated to flip on blocked attacks at the very least as Larcenous is unblockable.

Kicker what I meant as boon duration being a problem is that boons are already too heavy on other classes. The overall presence of boons in the game need to be reduced instead of giving boons to other classes like thief in order to match it. Sorry I did not originally make that very clear.

Glad I’m not the only one who likes my sword suggestion

To give you guys an idea, these are all things they should have done this patch or at least the important ones.

Updated the post to highlight the most important and easiest fixes. Don’t bother reading the non-highlighted stuff if you are not interested. @Arenanet fix those only after the highlighted stuff are done.

Kicker.8203:

• Traps: Tripwire and Needle Trap are really weak. I would add a good bunch of damage to them even though it would cause revealed.

No thanks, if you play with trapper runes these two are the best traps by far, putting damage on them would make them useless, the needle trap is already strong in a condi build – 3 sec immob (even more in WvW), thousands in bleeds/poison damage, long poison to reduce healing, unblockable, vuln & might with the trait, etc.

zinkz.7045:

Kicker.8203:

• Traps: Tripwire and Needle Trap are really weak. I would add a good bunch of damage to them even though it would cause revealed.

No thanks, if you play with trapper runes these two are the best traps by far, putting damage on them would make them useless, the needle trap is already strong in a condi build – 3 sec immob (even more in WvW), thousands in bleeds/poison damage, long poison to reduce healing, unblockable, vuln & might with the trait, etc.

That’s just a troll build coz u are perma-stealthed and u can still harass people. Not good for any serious business.

Kicker.8203:

zinkz.7045:

Kicker.8203:

• Traps: Tripwire and Needle Trap are really weak. I would add a good bunch of damage to them even though it would cause revealed.

No thanks, if you play with trapper runes these two are the best traps by far, putting damage on them would make them useless, the needle trap is already strong in a condi build – 3 sec immob (even more in WvW), thousands in bleeds/poison damage, long poison to reduce healing, unblockable, vuln & might with the trait, etc.

That’s just a troll build coz u are perma-stealthed and u can still harass people. Not good for any serious business.

You don’t have to be playing the permastealth condi trapper troll build to use trapper runes, there are other builds and there is no “serious business” in GW2, it is a super casual MMO with signifcant design flaws that make the idea of it being “serious business” a joke.

Virtually nothing needs buffs and pretty much everything to varying degrees needs nerfs to tone back the skilless powercreep and mindless spam of this game.

zinkz.7045:

You don’t have to be playing the permastealth condi trapper troll build to use trapper runes, there are other builds and there is no “serious business” in GW2, it is a super casual MMO with signifcant design flaws that make the idea of it being “serious business” a joke.

Virtually nothing needs buffs and pretty much everything to varying degrees needs nerfs to tone back the skilless powercreep and mindless spam of this game.

Well this thread is mainly about sPvP so yes balance is important.
Wouldn’t mind tho if they kept the traps bad to leave more room for trolling only in WvW.

Kicker.8203:

Well this thread is mainly about sPvP so yes balance is important.

LOL, if balance were important in this game, then you wouldn’t have a billion runes, sigils, stat options, traits, utility skills, weapon sets, etc, with classes that can perform multiple roles or multiple hybrids of roles, because that is impossible to balance.

As for sPvP specifically, it is a fine example of the mindless power creep in this game and how the game has become even more skilless (and let’s be honest it wasn’t exactly Starcraft to begin with), if you want more balance in PvP then classes need nerfs, not yet more powercreep with more buffs.

I didnt read every last detail, but it seems like you are really mostly buffing the things, that are weak right now, not trying to overtune already strong meachnics.

The impact strike change seems strange. Its a skill that you are supposed to hit. If you dont, you get punished.

The ‘add physical damage to pisto AA’ got me thinking.
This was discussed a while ago: Im not sure how the thread was named, but it made a good point. The weaponsets do not follow a clear purpose. Both d/d and p/p are trying to be power and condi alike…and fail.
The easiest solution would be to essentially swap death blossom and unload.

Did you suggest to make the second part of pistol whip auto-evade?

Maniacal persistence is pure bs. Pls dont put it on thief.
Its nonsense for a crit build and nobody wants a non-crit build to crit.
The main problem of non-zerker thieves is the ferocity, not the precision.

Asrat.2645:

The impact strike change seems strange. Its a skill that you are supposed to hit. If you dont, you get punished.

I’m saying interrupts only, not misses. It is fair in the scope of movement-skills but it’s a pseudo movement skill. Would you be happy if you wanted to use Rampage but you get interrupted so you have to wait 180s before u can use it?
Not an important change anyway.

Asrat.2645:

The weaponsets do not follow a clear purpose. Both d/d and p/p are trying to be power and condi alike…and fail.
The easiest solution would be to essentially swap death blossom and unload.

Good point. A swap would not be enough to fix it tho. They should make dedicated condi and dedicated power sets.

Asrat.2645:

Did you suggest to make the second part of pistol whip auto-evade?

What do u mean auto-evade? The second part is already evading but if you can use it without the precast u get to be more flexible. Your enemies wouldn’t be stunned in it if used separately tho.

Asrat.2645:

Maniacal persistence is pure bs. Pls dont put it on thief.
Its nonsense for a crit build and nobody wants a non-crit build to crit.
The main problem of non-zerker thieves is the ferocity, not the precision.

Imo it isn’t that bad, revenants used it before mallyx nerf. The idea is to let people with lower crit chance have crits. If it increases your crit chance while in stealth or combat it is simply a better hidden killer which had no use anyway. What do u mean ferocity is the problem? it depends on how u set up your gear.

Kicker.8203:

Asrat.2645:

Did you suggest to make the second part of pistol whip auto-evade?

What do u mean auto-evade? The second part is already evading but if you can use it without the precast u get to be more flexible. Your enemies wouldn’t be stunned in it if used separately tho.

Yeah, right. My bad. Not listed in the skill facts and didnt play s/p for a while. I thought it was only mesmers.

We just hope Anet doing well his work…

Balance patch coming soon. Please, just do the highlighted ones and I’d be happy.
Acro with Superspeed would be plain awesome! (<-made some adjustments here)

Honestly, I like acro as it is now. I run bound and pulmonary impact on my S/P interrupt build, so the condi traits in acro are massively useful to me. The ability to just ignore confusion stacks from guarded initiation as long as I’m aggressive is great. That trait alone means condi mesmers are an easy (albeit slow) kill, and condi dodge thieves have little burst if you evade properly.

Also, the current versions of don’t stop and expeditious dodger are very useful if you run a build without dash, both for maintaining move speed and avoiding immob. A build with dash is less likely to be running acro in the first place, so removing ways to deal with immob from acro isn’t a good plan imo.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Also, the current versions of don’t stop and expeditious dodger are very useful if you run a build without dash

True but dash is not the only source of movement speed and superspeed has a similar purpose anyway. The main reason I proposed removing swiftness was that Arenanet could just say thief has enough mobility already, therefore we won’t add superspeed in additon. Superspeed has a lot of limits tho, it doesn’t affect movement skills, strafing, forward-strafing, backpedaling and caps at swiftness speed outside combat but it would be a lot of fun IMO.

but well “superspeed on shadowstep” could be replacing the current vigor effectiveness trait too.

To people using acro:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Let-s-compare-new-Acro-to-Deadly-Arts/first#post5953447

I’ve gone through the weapons and utility skill section.
So far this is a very good read imo, nicely done.

I play mostly staff and also played a lot of S/P in season 1 to diamond.

for the most part I really like the changes u tried to implement, here are the things that I do not agree on:
decreasing iniative on Headshot:
people allreay like to spam this skill unthoughtfully, D/P is strong and I’m not sure if this buff would be a good thing to go, then again if u use initiative on headshots u cant use other things as much like blackpowder so maybe it would be ok, its not huge I understand…

Pistol Whip: The toggle idea is a nice thought, but currently the skill is sort of built around something u want to avoid as an opponent, this works well for baiting dodges with stow weapon during the long charge phase. I would instead reccomend removing the cast time on Sword #2 to allow for more fluid use of pistol whip when entering a fight. I really liked the “in and out” gameplay pistol whip saw back in the times, but removing the cast time on the return skill would be too strong and allow easy save stomps, perhaps too strong, so doing it on only the 1. chain skill would be a good step forward to bring this weapon more into the meta.

As for those that are against buffs, this isnt solely based on buffs, from the skill side this is mostly bringing in stuff that is undertuned or just lacks direction (condi+power mixed) and it will only bring in more variety to what buids are viable.

I’ll reply again when I’ve read more!

Thanks for the positive feedback, Misa.
However, I didn’t suggest to lower the initiative on Headshot, on the contrary, it is op combined with Impacting Disruption but it is easier to fix the trait.

Pistol Whip: if it was split into a chain it, the opponent would still want to evade the stun as you would be able to use the skill as it currently functions but the skill would be a lot more flexible.
Making infiltrator’s strike a bit faster wouldn’t be bad but it’s already a great skill imo.

It’s so easy to spot the favouritism in this list.

Your staff/vault hate is also oozing all over the place. It’s a highly telegraphed skill and is literally effortless to counter/dodge.

If your justification of trying to nerf it is comparison to backstab, then you have a lot of learning to do. Backstab takes a lot less skill to land, compared to vault on any DECENT player.

Silverbolt, you got me. Well if vault’s so effortless to dodge anyway they should increase its damage tenfold after all.

As a staff thief I actually agree on vault. It is a movement skill, therefore easy to hit (the dodge you could also say about Sotm, triggered on close range, in a visible noisy enviroment or unsuspected will still hit people)
Its a high damage skill and it has a built-in evade frame.
Taking the damage of that skill, and maybe reduce the cost by 1 would make it more of a utility skill.
Alternatively remove the evade frame and increase the travel speed.
But an offensive skill with automated evade is never good design. Especially if its spammable.

Î’ll ahve to disagree with some things, apart from those the list seems fairly good, and some especially nice points are made!

Acrobatics: I cannot say much on this line, not sure how I feel about it.

Daredevil: Staff needs to burst as it is for it to compete with the current meta. reducing it would cripple it a lot and it’s not like it is a brain dead win button like dh traps, it actually requires effort to predict movement and land on the target and is easily avoided if spammed. Reducing the AA dmg would also severly cripple staff viability unless other elite specs are nerfed aswell.

Deadly Arts: Improv is a great trat imo, I like the RNG a lot and I prefer it beeing there.
I can allways make some use as to whatever on my utility bar recieves the bonus from it.

Trickery: I agree what quick pockets is utterly underwhelming as it is
Trickster doesnt need a change imo, I mostly run it with staff and from my view thief isnt a ranger, there is a lot of evade and blind and other possible cleans from SA to help u avoid condi pressure. It’s not meant for you to be just able to easily cleans condi spam but rather to avoid it. And that is quite possible.
Increasing the max iniative by default im not sure about that, thief is strong allready.
Thoug hardcounterd by some specs atm.

Shadow Arts:
Quote:
“Shadow Rejuvenation: This trait is incentivizing very unhealthy gameplay(stealth camping. When trickery won’t be obligatory SA will be a possibility). Rework: Revealing yourself from stealth by attacking heals you for ~2k base and grants 2 initiative.”

This seems fairly strong, too strong I fear!

Critical Strikes: Seems like good changes but I think the pistol traits are well as they are, I know many people want ricchote bonces but the cripple trait fits nice as a kiting mid range spec, thoug I agree that the AA on pistol breaks it so much aswell as #2 beeing a bad investment for initiative.

Overall thief isnt in as bad of a state, it has some build variety atm that other classes dont have.
It lacks from the same problems like Ranger & Ele: No real direction and or synergi from certain weapons and traits such as weird mix of condi and power dmg on weapons sets/combos that dont work at all. especially the D/D and P/X sets are just weird. It just shows how messed up it is that people can only spam death blossom on D/D condi thief which is mostly power on the skillbar yet the only melee condi option it has.

Apart from that good suggestions and mostly acceptable Id say.
I’ve seen some other balancing ideas in other class forums but its mostly just people throwing OP stuff onto a class without much thought. This post actually tells u the author has proper insight and consideration for making a decent balance.

I think “Revealed Training” should be moved to the “Minor Master” slot and “Meld with Shadows” moved to the “Minor Adept”. SA has no damage boost and reveal is so short anyways. The current Adept is useless. All revive traits need to be removed. Plus it fits the theme of SA more that DA.

@Set good point about revealed training. Res trait should be optional either way.

@Misa thx for feedback again, although vault dmg could be still good after nerf and don’t forget vault does 3 other things in addition but dmg as of now is kittened. There are also CCs and general clusterf* to help u land it and is the best way to cleave downed bodies
Dagger auto DPS would be more than enough, trust me. I’m just suggesting some shaving.
Improv is not problematic on the user’s side but it is unfair against the opponent who tries to count your CDs. Doubling up on heal is also op.
Trickster: it felt it could take a little buff cause currently you have to turn down on bountiful theft.
Making +3 init baseline is something 90% of ppl agree on, in my experience.
Shadow’s rejuvenation could be still too strong I give you that, but only the numbers need some fine-tuning.
Crit strikes: could keep the cripple proc on the pistol trait but what I’m saying is dmg vs crippled doesn’t make sense because this proc is the only thing that gives cripple on pistol.
I agree on how weird the"condi sets" are and there should be clear condi sets and power sets instead of some random condi’s here and there

About the patch(my opinion highlighted):

• Vital Shot: Reduced the aftercast delay of this skill by 0.6 seconds. Great!
• Body Shot: Reduced the aftercast delay of this skill by 0.16 seconds. doesn’t matter, it is terrible either way
• Unload: This skill now grants 1 stack of might for 8 seconds when striking an enemy. yes, this skill needed more powercreep… nope. It remains a spam skill.
• Heartseeker: This skill is now able to be affected by quickness and slow. good
• Weakening Charge: This skill is now able to be affected by quickness and slow. good
• Dust Strike: This skill now applies 5 stacks of vulnerability per hit. Fixed a bug that caused this skill to strike more than once. Fixed a bug that caused this skill to blind for only 3 seconds instead of the full 5 seconds. bugfix, vuln good. blind should have stayed 3s
• Larcenous Strike: The number of boons stolen by this skill has been increased from 1 to 2. The initiative cost has been increased from 1 to 2. Great, albeit initiative cost could have stayed 1 and S/D would be still way underpowered.
• Withdraw: This skill now removes torment in addition to its other removals. ok
• Hide in Shadows: This skill now removes confusion in addition to its other removals. Increased the duration of regeneration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds. ok
• Skelk Venom: The base healing modifier for venom strikes has been increased by 40%. The healing contribution for both the initial heal and venom strikes has been increased by 50%. ok
• Expeditious Dodger: Increased the swiftness duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds. Time could have been spent better but better than nothing. If changed, IMO, it should have been swapped for “1.5s superspeed on shadowstep” to better differentiate the acro and daredeveil traitlines and to make it fun.
• Pain Response: The internal cooldown of this ability has been reduced from 20 seconds to 16 seconds. It was ok at 20s but any help is good for acro.. The variety of cleansed condis could have been improved and it should only proc if you have a condi. The most passive traits are the closest to viable in acro and there is too many of them.
• Vigorous Recovery: Increased the vigor duration of this trait from 7 seconds to 10 seconds. This trait wouldn’t be any better if it was 9999s vigor, and should be removed, there is already infinite vigor from the minor.
• Swindler’s Equilibrium: Damage while wielding a sword has been increased from 5% to 7%. Shouldn’t make this profession any more steal-centered than it already is. Whether u can land it or not, already decides the outcome of most duels.
  7% dmg that you don’t get on your shortbow is too low and situational. BTW, adding 2% dmg won’t help a traitline that is so far behind the others.
• Lead Attacks: This trait has been reworked and now grants 1% damage and condition damage per initiative spent for 15 seconds. This effect has a maximum of 15%. * Should reduce duration to 7s. Adding condi dmg to it is a great idea and generally a lot more traits should give condi dmg as well. Lead attacks is now also more potent but it should have been left as powerful as it was.*
• Bountiful Theft: The number of boons stolen has been increased from 2 to 3 in addition to applying vigor. Unnecessary buff of a meta trait.
• Consume Plasma: This stolen ability now grants resistance for 2.5 seconds, but it will not apply quickness. Updated the skill facts. ok
• Throw Gunk: This skill is now ground targeted. Added the radius to this skill’s description. Added an allied combo-field effect and enemy ring effect to this skill. “ground targeted” would only be a good thing if the skill actually dealt any damage

A lot more could have been done and instead of focusing on the meta Trickery traits, weak Acro traits could have been buffed. The main problem with these changes are not the things have been changed but the ones that haven’t been.
If condi mes, rev and druid descended to the balanced level, thief(D/P, Staff) could be in a good spot. My post is more about thief diversity for the most part which isn’t in a good spot.

Pain response, didnt even notice that one. Tho I dislike the passive procs, looks like they are here to stay. With this in mind, that trait could actually help making acro a considerable choice. Full dmg condi cleanse +reg every 16 seconds could prove to be extremely valuable, especially on builds without escapists absolution.

The changes mostly buffing the trickery line is disappointing but understandable.
You have to see what they did with this patch: they improved the lesser used aspects of the strong classes, and the more used aspects of the weaker classes.
That appears to be following a schedule. First a profession gets buffed (aka powercreep) to viability to ensure inter-class balance. then its lesser options get promoted to slowly create intra-class balance.
If powercreep wasnt their way to go, I would actually like that approach on balance.

Finally you have to look mostly on other classes changes. They nerfed one of our hardcounters (engi), eventually nerfed the other hardcounter (cant tell so far if guards got buffed or nerfed), gave a slight nerf to our replacement and seriously damaged one of the main damage dealers.
The increase in boonstrip also seems like they want to give us the dd+anti boon role that has been taken by necros.
All in all we were the winners of this patch, along with warriors.
I still dont think 2+ thieves will be very desirable, but at least a single thief should now be an improvement to the team, rather than a liability.

We will see where the meta takes us, but for now it seems we are in a relatively good spot.

@Asrat
Buffing just the already meta traits is the worst way to lessen the gap between professions as it kills build diversity if it isn’t already dead for the profession. They should have just buffed all thief weapon skills by a bit or stolen skills if they wanted to buff thief. I don’t think thief is in a bad spot (well S/D and Acro is) but there are those certain broken classes that are simply better.

But you see how it works?
First they buffed the acro line, it didnt really help us at all, its still a bad choice.
Now they buffed the already mandatory trickery line, that one made an impact on the game and improved us.

On the other hand with classes, that they, for whatever reason, consider fine, (like mesmer and ele) they started to buff less used weapons and tried to create build diversity.
it is not exactly my favourite approach, but that I can live with. Inter class has to come first.

Resurrecting this thread because people keep re-discussing topics I’ve already covered here.

Impactful Disruption has to be addressed. Headshot used to be one of the best interrupts in the game that rewarded precise and careful use, but now it is far too rewarding not to spam. The reason powerful “on interrupt” traits worked so well on mesmer is that they couldn’t have any amount of interrupts on demand like thief does, initiative permitting.