Guild Wars 2

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sneak_Gyro

portable stealth for 30 seconds on a 20 second cooldown

vs

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Refuge

Stealth for four ten seconds on a 60 second cooldown -unless- revealed,knockbacked,ported,taunted,feared, at which point skill has done nothing useful.

But I’m not salty.

Yours truly,

whatever.

Seems fair. 1 is an elite that is a flying thingy that be killed and kinda gives the engies postion away. The other is a dark feild wich can be blasted (done that many times when I go revealed, blast the heck out of it so enemy’s are blinded)

This sort of thread could make Anet think we don`t know what we are talking about when we ask for buffs.

You should fair and describe both skills as they are truly used…. refuge gives 4 second per pulse, we can often easily get 10sec or more of it, what do you hope to acomplish by saying it only gives 4 second stealth?

You could compare the fact that if thiefs are taken off SR you will instantly waste a 60 seconds CD… Idk if gyro stealth resets if you manage to do the same with a Eng.

But to be balanced, should happen just the same as both skills have almost the same idea of intended usefulness.

That beeing said, Sneak Gyro is still way better than SR and it is on a class that doesn`t have stealth as one of the core mechanics and could already defend itself very well before it had it.

So, very unbalanced imo regardless of your way of trying (poorly or not) to say it.

Kaliny.8265:

You could compare the fact that if thiefs are taken off SR you will instantly waste a 60 seconds CD… Idk if gyro stealth resets if you manage to do the same with a Eng.

This is what I’m talking about. I didn’t feel I’d need to specify that forcing a squishy class to remain in a static field for a set duration solely to gain the major benefit of that field (because blasting your field is situational use at best.) is worse than a mobile field that reapplies stealth as long as it is active, on a 20 second CD (because when gyro is destroyed it can be popped again in 20 seconds.)

With reveal being prevalent in addition to the less important knockbacks that could also ruin SR, its a bit irritating to see an option that is situationally more useful supporting a tankier class, I’ll be blunt.

I’m not saying that the engineer’s toy is bad, frankly its fun to fight, has a reasonable counter and has its uses, but with that being the case, why is our refuge so niche in comparison?

let’s also ignore that theres a detection pulse on sneak gyro

Sure, you can -see- the gyro if its being used as an opener, but the element of surprise is still carried if the engie is transporting friends.

EDIT: Was tired, have no idea how I got -four seconds MAX out of SR- in OP.

Oh and on expiration of the Gyro, you get Superspeed and a daze in the area. But its k, its an “elite”. Let’s go bit by bit =D I’m game

Edit:
Engineer: Scorpion Wire/Caltrops vs Engineer’s single slot Tool Kit. But its k, its super skillful to have a 0 second icd weapon swap with 5 additional skills. Because “omg I gotta remember cooldowns, I can’t just rapid click my weapon slots to check”.
Engineer: Shadow Refuge and Sneak Gyro. Alrightie.
Just Thief problems: Venoms. They don’t need a comparison.
Elementalist: Signet of Shadows and Signet of Air. Yippee.
Elementalist: Signet of Malice and Signet of Restoration. Woohoo.
Revenant: How about Roll for Initiative and Riposting Shadows.
Ranger: Tripwire against Spike Trap. But Our’s keeps us stealth and loses 2 seconds of stun? Oh fantastic, just ignore the endless stunbreak benefits for things like Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger… wait. Ranger. That’s odd. Or is it?
Engineer: Oh this one again? Elixir U is a faster and more advantageous version of our Haste, and it comes with a free friggin Smokescreen. YAAAY.
Mesmer: Distracting Daggers vs Mantra of Distraction. Sure we have a longer cast time, ours gives a mini benefit, and we get one charge. But there’s is lower cooldown, 300 more range, and aoe. Did I mention for the spot of a single trait they outclass our daggers where we have to take an entire traitline just to acquire ours? No? Ah, shucks. Maybe next time.
Guardian: Dagger storm, a fantastic reflect that locks you into an enormous bloody animation that basically screams kill me. And we can’t do anything but spin spin and spin. But that Wall of Reflection? Drop and go. And look at that free FIELD. We get a whirl though. But… compare?

Point is, you can complain. Nothing wrong with it. But when you get down to comparing, we are outdated on many, many skills. Some are just outright downgrades from other classes and several others are exact copy-pastes missing relate-able effects. It makes it truly fantastic, because I probably sound hysterical. =) Comon, shoot me down. I’m game.

Serious Thought.5394:

Oh and on expiration of the Gyro, you get Superspeed and a daze in the area. But its k, its an “elite”. Let’s go bit by bit =D I’m game

Edit:
Engineer: Scorpion Wire/Caltrops vs Engineer’s single slot Tool Kit. But its k, its super skillful to have a 0 second icd weapon swap with 5 additional skills. Because “omg I gotta remember cooldowns, I can’t just rapid click my weapon slots to check”.
Engineer: Shadow Refuge and Sneak Gyro. Alrightie.
Just Thief problems: Venoms. They don’t need a comparison.
Elementalist: Signet of Shadows and Signet of Air. Yippee.
Elementalist: Signet of Malice and Signet of Restoration. Woohoo.
Revenant: How about Roll for Initiative and Riposting Shadows.
Ranger: Tripwire against Spike Trap. But Our’s keeps us stealth and loses 2 seconds of stun? Oh fantastic, just ignore the endless stunbreak benefits for things like Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger… wait. Ranger. That’s odd. Or is it?
Engineer: Oh this one again? Elixir U is a faster and more advantageous version of our Haste, and it comes with a free friggin Smokescreen. YAAAY.
Mesmer: Distracting Daggers vs Mantra of Distraction. Sure we have a longer cast time, ours gives a mini benefit, and we get one charge. But there’s is lower cooldown, 300 more range, and aoe. Did I mention for the spot of a single trait they outclass our daggers where we have to take an entire traitline just to acquire ours? No? Ah, shucks. Maybe next time.
Guardian: Dagger storm, a fantastic reflect that locks you into an enormous bloody animation that basically screams kill me. And we can’t do anything but spin spin and spin. But that Wall of Reflection? Drop and go. And look at that free FIELD. We get a whirl though. But… compare?

Point is, you can complain. Nothing wrong with it. But when you get down to comparing, we are outdated on many, many skills. Some are just outright downgrades from other classes and several others are exact copy-pastes missing relate-able effects. It makes it truly fantastic, because I probably sound hysterical. =) Comon, shoot me down. I’m game.

Omg but one time this thief backstabbed me for 30k on my Sentinel Reaper with full shroud and I died instantly. Stupid perma stealth, perma condi clear, perma evade, cheesy, coward thief! Ughh HoT made them so strong!!

Sarcasm off, it is absolutely HILARIOUS that sneak gyro effectively:

-lets engies fight like a d/p thief for 30 seconds, except no initiative to manage
-offers a low cd reveal (FREE BONUS)
-has 1/3 the cd of SR
-does NOT reveal on exiting the circle

This is all on a class that has been labeled d/d ele 2.0. It does not need this toy. Seriously.

And gives superspeed and a daze. People forget that.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Seems fair. 1 is an elite that is a flying thingy that be killed and kinda gives the engies postion away. The other is a dark feild wich can be blasted (done that many times when I go revealed, blast the heck out of it so enemy’s are blinded)

Um….. the only way for you to keep doing the blast finisher is by using cluster bomb, and if it hits anyone, it’s going to reveal you. Considering that the whole point of thieves is that they are masters of stealth, you would think that they are able to have more stealth than an engi or actually have reveal abilities. Seriously, shadow refuge completely gets nullified by using facet of darkness (rev herald)…..

Also with that elite argument:

Basilisk Venom: 45 second CD for a 2 second stun……… There is a huge list of stun abilities that are not elites that are just way better than this. I mean right on top of my mind is Engi’s turret drop, and necro’s aoe freeze.

Pulmonary Impact: This is a terrible elite and nothing else needs to be said about it.

Thieves Guild: thieves have low hp and don’t do much dmg, the only thing nice is the scorpion wire and black powder from the theives. However all this for 180 second CD!!

Dagger Storm: Using this skill is just like asking to die, maybe if you time it right it would be super good against a ranged class, but you can’t dodge otherwise it gets canceled. So during this while you cant dodge, they can kill you with melee.

Tell me how you can decap with Gyro
or even play far, while enemy not knowing you going back mid or still staying at far.

lighter.2708:

Tell me how you can decap with Gyro
or even play far, while enemy not knowing you going back mid or still staying at far.

um… you can’t decap in stealth? No class can, not even thieves in stealth. As for the second part of what you said, I have no idea what you mean.
However, Yes people can see you moving around the map because the stealth gyro is still visible, but consider this: engis can stealth rez players by stealthing the downed player and himself using stealth gyro, he can also prevent stealth rez by using the reveal from the stealth gyro, which thieves cannot do at all. So considering how strong this stealth gyro and scrapper is, I doubt the fact that people can still know where you are when using the gyro is a problem at all

IchigoHatake.5098:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Seems fair. 1 is an elite that is a flying thingy that be killed and kinda gives the engies postion away. The other is a dark feild wich can be blasted (done that many times when I go revealed, blast the heck out of it so enemy’s are blinded)

Um….. the only way for you to keep doing the blast finisher is by using cluster bomb, and if it hits anyone, it’s going to reveal you. Considering that the whole point of thieves is that they are masters of stealth, you would think that they are able to have more stealth than an engi or actually have reveal abilities. Seriously, shadow refuge completely gets nullified by using facet of darkness (rev herald)…..

Also with that elite argument:

Basilisk Venom: 45 second CD for a 2 second stun……… There is a huge list of stun abilities that are not elites that are just way better than this. I mean right on top of my mind is Engi’s turret drop, and necro’s aoe freeze.

Pulmonary Impact: This is a terrible elite and nothing else needs to be said about it.

Thieves Guild: thieves have low hp and don’t do much dmg, the only thing nice is the scorpion wire and black powder from the theives. However all this for 180 second CD!!

Dagger Storm: Using this skill is just like asking to die, maybe if you time it right it would be super good against a ranged class, but you can’t dodge otherwise it gets canceled. So during this while you cant dodge, they can kill you with melee.

Good job you actually read what I typed. I said I do blast it when I got revealed… (typo go).

Gyro. Super speed. Reveal. 1200 range pull, 1000 range leap, 800 lange leap, 600 range leap. Please, tell me more on how a Scrapper cannot catch you.

Edit: I hope Thieves Guild goes down to 120 second cooldown. 180 is bogus.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

IchigoHatake.5098:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Seems fair. 1 is an elite that is a flying thingy that be killed and kinda gives the engies postion away. The other is a dark feild wich can be blasted (done that many times when I go revealed, blast the heck out of it so enemy’s are blinded)

Um….. the only way for you to keep doing the blast finisher is by using cluster bomb, and if it hits anyone, it’s going to reveal you. Considering that the whole point of thieves is that they are masters of stealth, you would think that they are able to have more stealth than an engi or actually have reveal abilities. Seriously, shadow refuge completely gets nullified by using facet of darkness (rev herald)…..

Also with that elite argument:

Basilisk Venom: 45 second CD for a 2 second stun……… There is a huge list of stun abilities that are not elites that are just way better than this. I mean right on top of my mind is Engi’s turret drop, and necro’s aoe freeze.

Pulmonary Impact: This is a terrible elite and nothing else needs to be said about it.

Thieves Guild: thieves have low hp and don’t do much dmg, the only thing nice is the scorpion wire and black powder from the theives. However all this for 180 second CD!!

Dagger Storm: Using this skill is just like asking to die, maybe if you time it right it would be super good against a ranged class, but you can’t dodge otherwise it gets canceled. So during this while you cant dodge, they can kill you with melee.

Good job you actually read what I typed. I said I do blast it when I got revealed… (typo go).

By blasting it, you are just wasting initiative, no one is going to see the slow cluster bomb falling down and still stay in its range… Since you did not reply the rest of my post, I assume that you either didn’t read or can’t argue with the fact that thief elites are just crap.

I love my daggerstorm
I’ll come and find anyone who will touch it

DON’T TOUCH MY DAGGERSTORM

(you’ll live longer if you don’t)

Jana.6831:

I love my daggerstorm
I’ll come and find anyone who will touch it

DON’T TOUCH MY DAGGERSTORM

(you’ll live longer if you don’t)

<Touches DAGGERSTORM>

(They already have, remember the stability change?)

dont forget the function gyro minor trait. Very useful.

Zero Day.2594:

Jana.6831:

I love my daggerstorm
I’ll come and find anyone who will touch it

DON’T TOUCH MY DAGGERSTORM

(you’ll live longer if you don’t)

<Touches DAGGERSTORM>

(They already have, remember the stability change?)

Yes – thank god an enemy thief with daggerstorm looks as if he’s dancing…
I got CC’ed once.

backstabs zero