Guild Wars 2

Hi, I just started using Devourer venom and Basilisk venom (in WvW) on my D/D thief build. Previously I’d been more defensive with black powder or RFI and Dagger Storm.

Anyway, I decided to try thee to get people to hold still so I could more easily BS them but what I’ve found is that I much prefer the Devourer Venom utility to the Basilisk Venom “elite”

1. Devourer Venom’s effect is longer. I can usually get a BS and 2/3 of an autoattack chain off before they even start to move. Also, people don’t really like to blow a condi cleanse on immob in my experience as much as they due a damaging effect. Devourer venom is affected by condi duration, BV is not.

2. DV is instant cast. BV is 1 sec cast. They are both 45 sec recharge with 30 sec duration.

3. BV is a stun and everyone has a stun break that is instant cast it seems.

I’ve killed a 100 dudes now using each about equally, the DV is far superior for me. I don’t get how BV is even an elite – because it ignores defiant? That may be useful occasionally but I haven’t really come across it and it doesn’t make up for it’s obvious shortcomings. Short timer for Lyssa? Still doesn’t seem elite and if you are running Lyssa you aren’t running Traveler which means you don’t have DV typically

I see BV as a crappy second immob/stun to let you BS, far inferior to DV and completely un-elite. I guess the only real use is if you run Lyssa.

Suggestions:

Make an attack with BV unblockable (goes through Aegis etc) – this is far more elite.

Make it instant cast – honestly why not? – it’s crappy as is when you want to use it to finish someone off. I don’t use it as an opener because I want to hit them, not watch them stunbreak away. However, waiting the second to charge it up in combat when i’m trying to stay alive is meh.

Make it guarantee a crit – this would allow for build diversity in DD thieves, they could trait for venoms, and use executioner vs hidden killer if they were going shadow arts.

If I’ve got anything wrong would appreciate your thoughts and feedback

This pretty much sums it all up.

The only thing good about it is the low cd for an elite (runes of lyssa) and that the tiny effect it has doesn’t have to be used in the other more useful utility slots where you can pick up signets, shadow refuge, shadowstep or blinding powder, I would never trade any of them for basilisk venom, I would however trade basilisk venom for devourer venom.

imo basilisk venom should penetrate stability but be stunbreakable.

Ghostwolf.9863:

This pretty much sums it all up.

The only thing good about it is the low cd for an elite (runes of lyssa) and that the tiny effect it has doesn’t have to be used in the other more useful utility slots where you can pick up signets, shadow refuge, shadowstep or blinding powder, I would never trade any of them for basilisk venom, I would however trade basilisk venom for devourer venom.

imo basilisk venom should penetrate stability but be stunbreakable.

AND make your hit with it unblockable (still can be dodged/blinded).

I really loathe the cast time. Do they honestly think squishy thieves have 1 second to wait when they need a stun?

I like to come out of Stealth, C/D the DV then BS/Attack chain – this pretty much guarantees 2 hits and the full 5 sec imob unless they are super pro. Sometimes you can get the second hit after they insta cleanse too.

With crappy BV you can’t do it, you have to use it on the FIRST hit which can often be dodged, blocked and even if it goes it is usually stunbroken or wears off before your attack chain gets them.

GL if you power it up before you attack and the dude gets aeigis or whatever. It’s wasted. With DV you use it when you KNOW it’s going to hit.

Thieves aren’t crappy typically, we plan, we have instincts, we pay attention to when our attacks work the best. DV is very unforgiving and crappy.

If I wanted to play a forgiving, noobish, easy playstyle I’d make a warrior, but that doesn’t mean our abilities should be crap, especially our élites’

Throw us a bone here

I don’t get why the “Petrify Block” of the grawls in EotM bypasses stability and is not breakable, while our Basilisk Venom is basically a normal stun.
And yes, I would take DV over BV anytime.

I know that it’s popular to call 30 DA “garbage”, but Residual Venoms is actually pretty good for Basilisk Venom. It neatly takes care of the Aegis situation, and also punishes people who blow their stunbreaker too early (you’ll just re-apply the stun).

animalmom.1062:

I really loathe the cast time. Do they honestly think squishy thieves have 1 second to wait when they need a stun?

I like to come out of Stealth, C/D the DV then BS/Attack chain – this pretty much guarantees 2 hits and the full 5 sec imob unless they are super pro. Sometimes you can get the second hit after they insta cleanse too.

With crappy BV you can’t do it, you have to use it on the FIRST hit which can often be dodged, blocked and even if it goes it is usually stunbroken or wears off before your attack chain gets them.

GL if you power it up before you attack and the dude gets aeigis or whatever. It’s wasted. With DV you use it when you KNOW it’s going to hit.

Thieves aren’t crappy typically, we plan, we have instincts, we pay attention to when our attacks work the best. DV is very unforgiving and crappy.

If I wanted to play a forgiving, noobish, easy playstyle I’d make a warrior, but that doesn’t mean our abilities should be crap, especially our élites’

Throw us a bone here

There are ways around that. For example, start casting then mug right before the end and it’ll apply or use BV in stealth and initiate with it. It’s not the best solution but the cast time is barely the issue here imo. It’s the clumsy impact a 1.5 second stun has that is mostly avoidable and hardly impressionable when it does land. Even with residual venoms people aren’t crazy to blow a stun breaker on bv if they know how short it lasts. 1.5 seconds go by and they’ll likely use the stun breaker by the time the 2nd one applies unless they’re spastic and don’t know what just hit them.

I’m willing to bet that devourers venom will get nerfed so it gets in line with basilisk venom even though Bvenom sucks kitten .

NinjaEd.3946:

[T]he cast time is barely the issue here imo. It’s the clumsy impact a 1.5 second stun has that is mostly avoidable and hardly impressionable when it does land. Even with residual venoms people aren’t crazy to blow a stun breaker on bv if they know how short it lasts. 1.5 seconds go by and they’ll likely use the stun breaker by the time the 2nd one applies unless they’re spastic and don’t know what just hit them.

I just wanted to chime in here. If a person doesn’t stun break my BV, they will most likely be 85% – 100% dead before the stun ends. Anything longer than 1.5 seconds is really, really pushing it. Add Residual Venoms to any additional length of a stun and things get out of hand very quickly.

Once upon a time, BV was unbreakable. The original design of BV makes it deserve the title of “Elite Skill”. Then the Warrior QQ in the PvP forum that affected every part of the game. Then after the QQ flood flash had subsided, BV is nothing but a utility skill not worth of the title anymore.

I find its usefulness by far superior to Dagger storm’s just because it allows you to take better utilities. Strictly speaking, Dagger Storm’s cooldown is far too long and the effects far too mediocre given the condi/melee meta to justify it.

For the cooldown, I believe Basilisk is fine as it is as an engage skill. Applying weapon poison shouldn’t be instant-cast-capable. For the cooldown, the skill is pretty solid.

I think thieves just need a more diverse pool of elite skills that have actual effects on gameplay. Dagger storm is far too unreliable and overall not very useful while Basilisk only really works in some situations on some builds.