Guild Wars 2

i guess It would be alright for pvp, if it didn’t have a cast timer

That’s the one elite that I’m probably never going to pick up

Yet is the only one that can be used underwater, so you are kinda forced to pick it up

There is a venomancer build that’s great for it for PvP, particularly WvWvW. The ability to give 20 or so allies 2 shots of stone venom is really crazy

Drastone, all AOE buffs/dmg are limited to 5 people (or at least I remember reading something like that on the beta weekend forums). Please tell us how you give 20 people a buff

It indeed is the most useless elite skill in the game. It takes longer to cast, then the effect lasts. It interrupts you, before interrupting your opponent and doesn’t even last long enough to make a difference.
Aside from underwater combat, where it hold the monopoly, there is no reason to use it over Dagger Storm or Thieves Guild.

I would go with Dagger Storm any day of the week. Don’t get me wrong. Basilisk Venom was the first Elite Skill I tried on PvP but as said above, it takes far too much time for casting and after that, it doesn’t last long enough if you’ve got to close a gap.

I thought it would be good for a few seconds but it sucks.

Back in BWE1 it had a 1s cast time and used to be pretty decent.

It shouldn’t even have a cast time. It’s a 1s stun and sucks. At least it could be used as a rupt if it was instant.

I find this skill quite useful in pvp. I charge it in spvp when approaching fights and this skill can also effectively stop running enemies.

Oh god yes, i wouldn’t mind if it was five sec, but 1 sec really? even when traited it’s the most useless skill ever the only reason i get it slotted is underwater combat. That skill and signet of malice need some serious buff, i played my warrior and his healing signet heals for more why can’t we get the same heal?

Anyways thieves guild FTW!

I bought it for underwater combat but I don’t even use it there.

Yes. It’s not at all worth the skill point price for what it does.

If it lasted for 5 seconds then it’d be useful against the mole people who can’t be blinded. But it only lasts for one attack!

I use it all the time when im underwater. Pop it before i go on land and get to walk around with a free stun on people. Its not like 90% of the elites work underwater for whatever kitten reason.

It’s a stun that isn’t broken by stun break with a very short cooldown compared to other elite skills. With venom builds it can AoE but also more importantly lasts 2 strikes with the end critical trait. It is excellent in burst combat(granted thieves guild is better) while roaming in sPvP, arguably the thief’s best role. It may not be the best elite skill but it is definitely not useless.

It has a cast time.

How does one justify this, compared to Mesmer’s Moa?

Yeah, utterly pointless.

I really wanted to use this elite skill, but the casting time is just terrible.

Someone’s figured out how to use this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Kirin-s-Info-for-Aspiring-PVE-Thieves/first#post88087

When used in a group, you can lock up any enemy for 5 seconds. That can be really useful.

The casting timer was added because of the Venomous Aura specs. A hard core VA spec could potentially trigger a net of 10 seconds of unpreventable stun after all of the procs from you and your allies hit the same target. That’s pretty crazy, which is why ArenaNet tried to make the skill harder to use.

Of course they also made the skill basically broken for all of the non-VA players, but they don’t seem to care about that part.

Basilisk venom useless.

You guys are forgetting one incredibly powerful thing: Superior Rune of Lyssa. The important part is your bonus for having all 6 runes:

When you use an elite skill lose all conditions and gain all boons for 5 seconds.

With 20 points in deadly arts, you can get basilisk venom down to a 36s cooldown. This makes that skill extremely powerful.

I’ll agree, it’s not the world’s best. However, try combining it with that rune and you’ll be very happy with the results.

this skill, unlike your other elite skills, is just not good without trait support.

however, it becomes AWESOME when supported. traits can give this an extra charge (doubling its effectiveness) and share the venom with nearby allies (which is bonkers strong).

Adjusting it to be a unique form of crowd control would make it much more worthy of its elite skill status. Perhaps it could last for five seconds, though with afflicted enemies being immune to damage for the duration? It’d be very situational, but a lot more useful than it is now.

To be honest, hyperbolic statements like “Basilisk Venom is the most useless elite ever” aren’t very constructive, nor do they provide terribly good feedback to the developers who read these forums.

Does Basilisk Venom have issues? Sure. But as others have pointed out, it was previously nerfed for a reason, which was being the centerpiece of a very scary build that locked people down for up to 10 seconds with no option of stun break. Obviously, something had to be done about that.

So yeah, it’s not what it once was, on account of the huge cast time it has now, but that doesn’t mean it can’t still be useful with the right setup. Issues aside, it has a VERY low cooldown, especially when traited, so it’s one of the best elites in the whole game for abusing the Lyssa rune bonuses (especially if you take Withdraw as a heal skill in conjunction).

Everything has its place, and it could still be slightly adjusted. But given the uses it already has (and how ridiculous it was with a short cast time previously), it doesn’t need THAT much.

Dacromir.6207:

You guys are forgetting one incredibly powerful thing: Superior Rune of Lyssa. The important part is your bonus for having all 6 runes:

When you use an elite skill lose all conditions and gain all boons for 5 seconds.

With 20 points in deadly arts, you can get basilisk venom down to a 36s cooldown. This makes that skill extremely powerful.

I’ll agree, it’s not the world’s best. However, try combining it with that rune and you’ll be very happy with the results.

On the other hand, you’re giving up all of your rune slots (360 stat points and 12% crit damage with runes of divinity) as well as an actual useful elite to get this.

To be honest, hyperbolic statements like “Basilisk Venom is the most useless elite ever” aren’t very constructive, nor do they provide terribly good feedback to the developers who read these forums.

Would “Basilisk Venom is less useful than any other Elite Skill in the game” be better? I think they get the point. The rest of the thread is where the details get ironed out.

Does Basilisk Venom have issues? Sure. But as others have pointed out, it was previously nerfed for a reason, which was being the centerpiece of a very scary build that locked people down for up to 10 seconds with no option of stun break. Obviously, something had to be done about that.

I can understand needing to nerf an overpowered combination of factors, but they really should figure out a way to nerf that combination, while giving some usefulness to the vanilla version of the skill. Wouldn’t the easy solution be to make it so that Stone doesn’t stack for duration? That way, one use of it, ten, it wouldn’t matter, you’d only be able to get the same duration out of it as a single use. Since this is the only ability that grant Stone, it wouldn’t harm other skills either. Of course, they’d then need to make the vanilla ability better, with a longer innate duration, and a lower casting time.

Perhaps the solution would be to stack effects. Give it 1 second of Stone, AND three seconds of Stun, AND five seconds of Immobilize, AND ten seconds of Cripple, or something along those lines (meaning that as each wear off their options would be improved, but it would still reduce their effectiveness for a decent amount of time). That way, enemies/players with stun-breakers could only be stunlocked for one second, no matter what, but then it could offer a solid amount of overall CC effects that would be very handy.

Amante.8109:

Does Basilisk Venom have issues? Sure. But as others have pointed out, it was previously nerfed for a reason, which was being the centerpiece of a very scary build that locked people down for up to 10 seconds with no option of stun break. Obviously, something had to be done about that.

Is it on a short cool down? Yes, but I think people can accept an increase in cool down if they actually made the skill more viable. With VA specs, it was very possible to have huge lock-downs in short intervals but at the same time, it also required people to coordinate that (not trying to justify but). Moa Morph is on a 180s CD I know, but it achieves essentially the same effect with less effort, it’s the longest duration control effect without the option of breaking out of it too.

Instead of gutting it completely useless, they could do what they’ve done with lots of other elite skills, make it so the trait does not work with the venom. Survival cool down reduction traits doesn’t work with the Ranger’s Entangle, Chilling Darkness does not work with the Necromancers Plague Form. They’re fairly inconsistent about whether traits work or not with several elite skills.

In terms of sPvP, mesmers have a 10 second full disable for a 1v1.
Thiefs have a 1 second full disable.

ONE SECOND
what the kitten is the point? I dont even

Ohoni.6057:

Would “Basilisk Venom is less useful than any other Elite Skill in the game” be better? I think they get the point. The rest of the thread is where the details get ironed out.

No, it wouldn’t, because it’s just a weaker way of saying the same incorrect thing, which is that “Basilisk Venom is the least useful elite in the game”. There is a big difference in saying that a skill like BV is “niche” or “limited in use” (correct), and saying “OMG WORST ELITE IN GAEM”, which is just senseless hyperbole.

A game like Guild Wars 2 is all about build uniqueness and synergy. This means, in contrast to something like WoW, that it’s a lot less about finding the singular “best” build, and a lot more about making one that fits the needs of your team and the environment.

Is Thieves Guild our best all around elite? Absolutely; you can throw it into any build and it’ll fit okay. But I can think of several specific builds where even the “useless” Basilisk Venom can be used in very effective ways. I’d even go as far to say that it’s BETTER than our third elite, Dagger Storm.

And honestly, let’s have a bit of a reality check here. When it comes to terrible elites, it gets a lot worse than ANY elite Thief has to offer. Elixir X, anyone?

No, it wouldn’t, because it’s just a weaker way of saying the same incorrect thing, which is that “Basilisk Venom is the least useful elite in the game”. There is a big difference in saying that a skill like BV is “niche” or “limited in use” (correct), and saying “OMG WORST ELITE IN GAEM”, which is just senseless hyperbole.

Well, I used better grammar. You seem pretty firm on that point though. Which Elite skill is worst then? One of them would have to be. I vote Basilisk, what’s your counter? Elixer X? That at least turns you into a “rampaging brute,” or perhaps a whirlwind. I don’t know how strong those are, but they’re at least cool.

It’s not that I’m opposed to having a weak ability, there are plenty of abilities I have no interest in using, but plenty more that I do use so that’s ok. My problem with BV is that 1. It’s the only one we can use underwater at the moment (even though Buddy Thieves should work fine underwater), and 2. that it’s too expensive to be so bad. If this were in the 1-3 point range, fine, but if the price is 10 points, it should be worth at least 4.

If they just removed the cast time to make it functionally the same as the other venoms, I’d be happy. Right now it’s only functionality as an emergency stun is undermined by the fact that I’m useless for 3-4 seconds while I apply it.

I agree that it can use improvement, but calling it “useless” is taking it to far.

An 1 sec cast time or even instant cast would make the ability much more desirable.

Basilisk venom is great if you build for it, but terrible if you don’t build for it. The only really bad part about it is that it’s the ONLY elite skill we can use underwater. It doesn’t seem to work with speargun attacks either.

Am I wrong or does this skill provides the only stun that cannot be broken by any means?

VakarisJ.5619:

It indeed is the most useless elite skill in the game. It takes longer to cast, then the effect lasts. It interrupts you, before interrupting your opponent and doesn’t even last long enough to make a difference.

Pretty much this.

WTB Thieves Guild underwater. Basilisk Venom is trying to encroach on that territory being the only Elite usable underwater.

Amigo.5023:

Am I wrong or does this skill provides the only stun that cannot be broken by any means?

Even if that’s true, it doesn’t last long enough to make a difference, it interrupts you before interrupting your enemy, and the cast time is longer than the amount of time they’re turned to stone

Reynfall.1547:

Amigo.5023:

Am I wrong or does this skill provides the only stun that cannot be broken by any means?

Even if that’s true, it doesn’t last long enough to make a difference, it interrupts you before interrupting your enemy, and the cast time is longer than the amount of time they’re turned to stone

You’re meant to use it preemptively rather than as an interrupt. But yes, it is the only stun in the game that can’t be removed.

Yeah, it’s pretty bad. I ended up buying it because it’s the only elite available under water, but trying to ever use it in PvE ends up hurting more than it helps. And 1v1 or even 1vSharks in Raid on the Capricorn, forget about it.

If you think any skill is bad, it’s because you are bad. This needs to be the motto of Guild Wars 2, which is a skill based game.

It’s also the mark of a lack of imagination.

The Basilisk Venom stacks duration. If you have the traits which add another attack to your venoms, you get 2s of a completely-100%-helpless player. Cool story bro!

But then you take the trait which applies your venoms to allies nearby. 5 people, with 2s of making a completely-100%-helpless player each. Pick any target, everyone attacks, and that person is locked down for 10 seconds, unable to do anything until they are dead.

But then you have another Thief with the same build on your team. He pops the same Venom after your first kill, and you move on to the next target, 10s stunlocking the next player. Around this time, with your traits, the Venom is almost done with it’s cooldown – and you pop it again! Take 3 Thieves like this, and you will literally wipe the floor with any team or group. Take 5 Thieves! See Basilik nerfed in a week.

Not entirely sure if the extra application shows to allies or not actually, but regardless it’s a great Elite with the right skill.

If you think any skill is bad, it’s because you are bad. This needs to be the motto of Guild Wars 2, which is a skill based game.

In a perfect world, that would be true, but this is GW2, and while it’s great, it’s not perfect. There are some abilities that are underestimated, and some that are underpowered. This one is a little of both, but it could use some fix’in.

But then you take the trait which applies your venoms to allies nearby. 5 people, with 2s of making a completely-100%-helpless player each. Pick any target, everyone attacks, and that person is locked down for 10 seconds, unable to do anything until they are dead.

But then you have another Thief with the same build on your team. He pops the same Venom after your first kill, and you move on to the next target, 10s stunlocking the next player. Around this time, with your traits, the Venom is almost done with it’s cooldown – and you pop it again! Take 3 Thieves like this, and you will literally wipe the floor with any team or group. Take 5 Thieves! See Basilik nerfed in a week.

Yes, it’s very nice if you devote yourself entirely to it’s whims, but even then, whatever. Instead, you could have Buddy Thieves AND a build that isn’t entirely reliant on a single weird stunlock combo, because you can put those points into other things, more useful things. Instead of having a second identical thief, you could have a different classed character, or a thief with a different build.

The ability should be good on its own, without having to go to such lengths to counteract its downsides.

Just wondering why mesmer elite (moa transformation) is a 10 sec cc and rogue one is a 1 sec cc..ok, a moa can move and try to escape but..seriously, 1 sec vs 10 sec..?

I agree that Basilisk Venom is probably the worst of the thief’s elite skills. I feel like they added it in to add more viability to the “support” thief builds. If you trait for it, it’s not that bad. However, as stated, it’s terrible in any build that isn’t built for venoms. I personally find Thieves’ Guild to be the best elite skill Thief has. It can be game changing, and it has easily caused me to win multiple 3v1s that I probably shouldn’t have been able to win without it (and definitely wouldn’t have with any other elite skill). I used to use Dagger Storm, but it’s inconsistency mixed with poor damage ruined it for me. It’s simply an 8 second projectile reflect, and that’s not really worth the elite slot.

Vexus.5423:

If you think any skill is bad, it’s because you are bad. This needs to be the motto of Guild Wars 2, which is a skill based game.

It’s also the mark of a lack of imagination.

The Basilisk Venom stacks duration. If you have the traits which add another attack to your venoms, you get 2s of a completely-100%-helpless player. Cool story bro!

But then you take the trait which applies your venoms to allies nearby. 5 people, with 2s of making a completely-100%-helpless player each. Pick any target, everyone attacks, and that person is locked down for 10 seconds, unable to do anything until they are dead.

But then you have another Thief with the same build on your team. He pops the same Venom after your first kill, and you move on to the next target, 10s stunlocking the next player. Around this time, with your traits, the Venom is almost done with it’s cooldown – and you pop it again! Take 3 Thieves like this, and you will literally wipe the floor with any team or group. Take 5 Thieves! See Basilik nerfed in a week.

Not entirely sure if the extra application shows to allies or not actually, but regardless it’s a great Elite with the right skill.

this skill is junk why would i need to stun anyone for just one second when i couldjust pop thieves guild and kill them in half a second i dont mean for this to sound like a QQ but this skill really needs a rework lol

Make Basilisk shadow step you to your enemy and turn them to stone for 1~2s. It’ll make people qq regarding the skill a lot less.

The Basilisk Venom is designed for high level play. No one is really at that point yet. Even good groups doing sPvP are always being matched against pugs. I don’t use it in WvW because I don’t spec into Deadly Arts, however as my group gets larger, and now that I am finding I have 2-3 Warriors and 2-3 Thieves to run with nightly, I might spec into it to give a group-wide stunlock every 45 seconds. How is that bad? It’s only bad because you don’t want to change your spec.

Spreading Venoms can turn the tide, period. You can give your group Poison attacks to start the fight, Immobilization attacks as soon as you see the enemy break morale, and then Stun attacks anywhere in that mix to just push it over the top, and have another skill slot open for Shadow Refuge or Shadowstep should you need either.

I think in a Dungeon, if you have 4-5 Thieves speced the same way, you can keep a boss on permanent stone form. How is that not useful!? I am telling everyone I know to roll a Thief to do these kinds of things. Stealth to the boss and Stonelock him to death.

Basilisk is a group dynamic skill, and still works for backstab builds and other kinds of attacks. It’s the only stun we really have on a 45 second un-traited cooldown. You can switch to it in WvW when you know you’re going to see people running away. You can break combat and switch back to Thieves when you think you’ll need those. But saying it’s bad or needs work just means you need to look in the mirror when saying those things. It’s you who needs work. Not an attack on you at all, just want everyone to raise the skill bar a little.

Vexus.5423:

The Basilisk Venom is designed for high level play. No one is really at that point yet. Even good groups doing sPvP are always being matched against pugs. I don’t use it in WvW because I don’t spec into Deadly Arts, however as my group gets larger, and now that I am finding I have 2-3 Warriors and 2-3 Thieves to run with nightly, I might spec into it to give a group-wide stunlock every 45 seconds. How is that bad? It’s only bad because you don’t want to change your spec.

Spreading Venoms can turn the tide, period. You can give your group Poison attacks to start the fight, Immobilization attacks as soon as you see the enemy break morale, and then Stun attacks anywhere in that mix to just push it over the top, and have another skill slot open for Shadow Refuge or Shadowstep should you need either.

I think in a Dungeon, if you have 4-5 Thieves speced the same way, you can keep a boss on permanent stone form. How is that not useful!? I am telling everyone I know to roll a Thief to do these kinds of things. Stealth to the boss and Stonelock him to death.

Basilisk is a group dynamic skill, and still works for backstab builds and other kinds of attacks. It’s the only stun we really have on a 45 second un-traited cooldown. You can switch to it in WvW when you know you’re going to see people running away. You can break combat and switch back to Thieves when you think you’ll need those. But saying it’s bad or needs work just means you need to look in the mirror when saying those things. It’s you who needs work. Not an attack on you at all, just want everyone to raise the skill bar a little.

I use Basilisk Venom in sPvP (depending on my build).

As for WvW, dagger storm.

For solo PvE, imo, nothing tops Thieves Guild.

However, if they implemented my suggestion, it’ll make the rest of the people qq less about it.

PS: I do think the skill can use a lower c/d, and/or complete removal of cast time though.

I might spec into it to give a group-wide stunlock every 45 seconds. How is that bad? It’s only bad because you don’t want to change your spec.

The problem is, from the sounds of it, a fully specced Basilisk build might be an 8-10/10 ability, maybe. Fair enough. But unspecced, it’s like a 1-2/10 ability, practically useless. This alone is not good. An elite skill should always be at least a 5/10 ability, even if you have completely the wrong specs for it. They can leave the effects it can have fully specced alone, but they need to buff up the effects it has in its vanilla state.