Guild Wars 2

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Morph

Why is BV considered such a deadly skill that it became a stun so stunbreakers were viable when Moa Morph leaves you virtually open to death for ten seconds from any enemy that sees you?

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

Moa Morph has a 3 minute cooldown. Untraited, you can use BV 4 times in that space. The Moa form also got buffed. You can run away rather quickly now. Also what Puru said, you even have the ability to spread BV to your team.

Cd + Venom share i guess.

Venom skills in general need to be buffed anyway, they shouldn’t pay the price of being terrible unless you spec massively for them. The only exception would be devourer venom atm.

I would even go as far as to say venomous aura should be integrated in those utilities without traiting for it and venomous aura should increase the radius to 600-900.

Rizzy.8293:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Morph

Why is BV considered such a deadly skill that it became a stun so stunbreakers were viable when Moa Morph leaves you virtually open to death for ten seconds from any enemy that sees you?

Moa Morph #5 is basically a get out of jail free card. Use it to charge faster than Ele’s RTL to safety.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

You cant jump in moa morph and have no utility skills and it lasts an entire 10 seconds.
You cant even click mist form to get get out of it because of no utility skills.

Honestly, you’re gonna tell me that 1.5 secs of being rooted to some place is far worse than being turned into a useless bird for 10 seconds.?

it mostly comes down to reuse time and combinations that go with it.

But yeah BV really isn’t elite anymore its almost inferior to most regular stuns take for instance magic bullet from mesmer, 2s stun on a 25s cooldown with additional hits and multiple targets each also getting debuffed some form.

Compared to that BV is almost rubbish, double so when you realize the petrified debuff doesn’t stack duration.

Rizzy.8293:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

You cant jump in moa morph and have no utility skills and it lasts an entire 10 seconds.
You cant even click mist form to get get out of it because of no utility skills.

Honestly, you’re gonna tell me that 1.5 secs of being rooted to some place is far worse than being turned into a useless bird for 10 seconds.?

I would have to say yes.

1.5s is long enough to get flatten because you are not just receiving active damage, but also DOTs from AoE, well, marks, etc.

I think it would be worth elite status if they simply removed the activation time, like the other venoms.
Then it would be unique in the ability to stop someone instantly. You could do all kinds of things with it then, like stopping a 100b Warrior in his tracks the moment he immobilizes and jumps on you, or stopping someone mid-heal to finish them.

i have another outlook/pov about BV, i use it as a God mode buff using runes of lyssa,

i tried to follow one of the guides here, and it is quite nice for a change

Oldgrimm.8521:

i have another outlook/pov about BV, i use it as a God mode buff using runes of lyssa,

i tried to follow one of the guides here, and it is quite nice for a change

lol, very nice

Oldgrimm.8521:

i have another outlook/pov about BV, i use it as a God mode buff using runes of lyssa,

i tried to follow one of the guides here, and it is quite nice for a change

Yup, I use it like that too. It’s very handy.

most utility venoms are better then BV.
BV is a silly excuse of an ELITE and its the ONLY one we can use under water…

Btw if you turn someone to stone under water, why don’t they “fall” to the bottom of the sea/river? does the BV tun ppl into styrofoam wile under water?!

indeed, BV + lyssa, is a good utlity combination, for escaping and for assaulting enemies,

but i really do hope BV is insta cast,

I remember seeing a mes/ranger duo in pug, who did moa morph+ that 20 second root duration. There was no escape.

/just sharing

Volrath.1473:

most utility venoms are better then BV.
BV is a silly excuse of an ELITE and its the ONLY one we can use under water…

The only one I use on land also. The other Elite skills are situational and very limited.

Btw if you turn someone to stone under water, why don’t they “fall” to the bottom of the sea/river? does the BV tun ppl into styrofoam wile under water?!

Depends on your understanding of what/where “bottom” is. To be fair, Anet choose neither sinking nor floating.

Recently I’ve dropped BV and started running with DV and TG instead. Overall I feel this is better. Those times where it’s constantly fight after fight, I dont feel like wasting the time to cast BV.

Another, and the main reason I did this is: How many of us are used to the screen change/stone color when hit with BV? The moment it happens, you know it, and you know what’s about to follow. Devourer on the other hand, especially of they are gathered around in a cluster kitten, is probably less likely to be reacted to.

TG is also great for CC when you need to get somebody off one of your team mates. The melee thief will always throw scorpion wire (whether or not it lands is another matter, but meh), and the other will pop a smoke field you can HS > Stealth into.

This works well when there is a bunker, or say, an Ele, you just absolutely want to die. Devourer > CnD > Mug > TG > Backstab > #1 Chain. Then, run to your melee thief, as he’s about to scorpion wire. Hey! Free interrupt, and they just got pulled to you. Time for another CnD > Backstab while they’re down.

It’s also great for those times when another enemy shows up, and turns it into a 1v2, while you’ve already popped TG. They’ll be so busy fighting your thieves, you can run off to the other side of the map without fear of being knocked/pushed/pulled out of SR and being focused after.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Rizzy.8293:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

You cant jump in moa morph and have no utility skills and it lasts an entire 10 seconds.
You cant even click mist form to get get out of it because of no utility skills.

Honestly, you’re gonna tell me that 1.5 secs of being rooted to some place is far worse than being turned into a useless bird for 10 seconds.?

I would have to say yes.

1.5s is long enough to get flatten because you are not just receiving active damage, but also DOTs from AoE, well, marks, etc.

Penguin.5197:

I remember seeing a mes/ranger duo in pug, who did moa morph+ that 20 second root duration. There was no escape.

/just sharing

Seriously, just cripple/chill/immobilize the bird and they’re 100% defenseless long enough for even a Bunker to kill them. You can’t even use a utility to break out.

Grimwolf.7163:

Seriously, just cripple/chill/immobilize the bird and they’re 100% defenseless long enough for even a Bunker to kill them. You can’t even use a utility to break out.

And yet BV is still perceived as a bigger threat.

Grimwolf.7163:

Seriously, just cripple/chill/immobilize the bird and they’re 100% defenseless long enough for even a Bunker to kill them. You can’t even use a utility to break out.

You can say the same thing with anything, bird or not. If they target to spike you, you’ll die regardless.

Imagine a Thief using S/D used IS (immobilized) on you and triggers BV, even if you break stun, you are still a sitting bird waiting to die. But more likely the Thief will also daze you preventing any stun break.

Then the Thief can do it again in “fourty five” sec (untraited) compare to the long CD of Moa.

In the worst case scenario, either one will end with your death, but Thieves can cause a lot of devastation especially when traited with Venom Aura.

EDIT: Seems like the overzealous filter didn’t like “45”. scratch head

In MOA form all you have to do is hit the #5 key and it dashes (with an evade associated with it) for a few seconds.

So, basically, even if you get rooted as bird, you can dash and avoid all incoming damage because you are really evading. Then you still have your normal endurance. You can evade as a bird as well.

BV, you have to use stun break or eat the full duration.

Lol, moa morph. It’s such a bad skill. Telegraph leaves it open to interrupt. Anyone with a brain runs once moaed. (That’s a word now. Moaed.) TW or MI are far far better in most situations.

well would still trade venom for moa anyday xD

In psychological level, I rather not be turned into anything, especially a Moa — it’s just humiliating.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

You guise do realize that when doing the spike dmg sequence you had to basically pop 3-4 skills and CDs? …. Then, IF you didn’t miss the Basilisk (a must…enforced on the build to make CnD or BS easier) , you’d go on and CnD, if you didn;t miss that, you’d move around the target and do a Backstab (that can also miss), and all this in the time basilisk was up, dancing thru AOE maybe and in the case the target just stood there like a kitten hippo with a target on it’s back waiting for you to carry on with your amazing plan…

you srs there? Do you know the duration of Basilisk? Anet go play thief.

You often don’t see it coming, can be stuck on any attack and it’s often on Steal + CnD.

MrForz.1953:

You often don’t see it coming, can be stuck on any attack and it’s often on Steal + CnD.

No sir,,, YOU don’t see it comming as I and it seems many other ppl do see it comming and even more so, the stoneskin makes you SEE it applied for what must feel an eternity of 1.5 seconds.

Basilisk venom is inferior to the Devourer venom right now.
Detailed comparison:
CD – 45s(BV), 45s(DV). The same cd time.
Cast time – 1s(BV), instant(DV). DV is better than BV.
CC duration – 1.5s(BV), 2s(DV). DV is better than BV.
Number of applications – 1 hit(BV), 2 hits(DV). DV is better than BV.
Type of CC – Stun(BV), Immobilize(DV). BV is better than DV.
Conclusion: 3:1 in Devourer venom favor. The only thing Basilisk is better than Devourer is that it stuns the target instead of immobilizing it. I don’t know how can someone compare Basilisk venom to a Moa Morph if it is inferior even to the utility skill (Devourer venom).

Macovan.3650:

Basilisk venom is inferior to the Devourer venom right now.
Detailed comparison:
CD – 45s(BV), 45s(DV). The same cd time.
Cast time – 1s(BV), instant(DV). DV is better than BV.
CC duration – 1.5s(BV), 2s(DV). DV is better than BV.
Number of applications – 1 hit(BV), 2 hits(DV). DV is better than BV.
Type of CC – Stun(BV), Immobilize(DV). BV is better than DV.
Conclusion: 3:1 in Devourer venom favor. The only thing Basilisk is better than Devourer is that it stuns the target instead of immobilizing it. I don’t know how can someone compare Basilisk venom to a Moa Morph if it is inferior even to the utility skill (Devourer venom).

Don’t forget that Devourer Venom is properly affected by +Condition Duration, as well as Residual Venom and Venomous Aura due to the ability to stack.
And the fewer applications are actually a detriment if you have Leeching Venoms.

uzu.7351:

No sir,,, YOU don’t see it comming as I and it seems many other ppl do see it comming and even more so, the stoneskin makes you SEE it applied for what must feel an eternity of 1.5 seconds.

wat

Macovan.3650:

Basilisk venom is inferior to the Devourer venom right now.
Detailed comparison:
CD – 45s(BV), 45s(DV). The same cd time.
Cast time – 1s(BV), instant(DV). DV is better than BV.
CC duration – 1.5s(BV), 2s(DV). DV is better than BV.
Number of applications – 1 hit(BV), 2 hits(DV). DV is better than BV.
Type of CC – Stun(BV), Immobilize(DV). BV is better than DV.
Conclusion: 3:1 in Devourer venom favor. The only thing Basilisk is better than Devourer is that it stuns the target instead of immobilizing it. I don’t know how can someone compare Basilisk venom to a Moa Morph if it is inferior even to the utility skill (Devourer venom).

Maybe i don’t want to waste a utility slot on DV, even running a venom share build i don’t take it in favor of IDV or SV to get the most out of leeching venom for the group, BV is also stun that works on most bosses or mobs the don’t normallly move. (Ever seen a stoned tentacle at jade maw? it funny and disturbing at the same time)

BobbyT.7192:

Maybe i don’t want to waste a utility slot on DV, even running a venom share build i don’t take it in favor of IDV or SV to get the most out of leeching venom for the group, BV is also stun that works on most bosses or mobs the don’t normallly move. (Ever seen a stoned tentacle at jade maw? it funny and disturbing at the same time)

Well, may be you are right regarding pve, I don’t really know. I spend 90% of gaming time in WvW, so my judgement was based on that. In WvW I don’t want to waste my elite on BV because in many situations Thieves Guild and Dagger Storm are superior, and DV is better for CC, imo.

I never run DV much better choices for utility than DV bas cd is so little why not run it. It depends on build but if you are burst I think BV is better than TG you can pretty much stall in a fight to have it come up 2 times when outnumbered. TG is good at the opening but if your fighting any 2-3 classes with aoe the thieves die pretty quickly.

And MOA is bad only time I see people run that is for a revenge kill on me after I killed them a few times. Then I pop 5 and Chunk the Deuces turn around as they run toward me and by time they catch up I transform back. MOA is just bad.

Macovan.3650:

BobbyT.7192:

Maybe i don’t want to waste a utility slot on DV, even running a venom share build i don’t take it in favor of IDV or SV to get the most out of leeching venom for the group, BV is also stun that works on most bosses or mobs the don’t normallly move. (Ever seen a stoned tentacle at jade maw? it funny and disturbing at the same time)

Well, may be you are right regarding pve, I don’t really know. I spend 90% of gaming time in WvW, so my judgement was based on that. In WvW I don’t want to waste my elite on BV because in many situations Thieves Guild and Dagger Storm are superior, and DV is better for CC, imo.

I slot BV over DV in WvW if i run venom share, If not then i don’t bring either. Usually it spider, skale or ice drake, shadow refuge, and basilisks. Not a solo ganker, so I run with my guild most of the time and it works out just fine.

I think a lot of people underestimate the value of Moa.
Even if you can’t kill the person in those 10 seconds, you’ve still basically removed a person from the fight for a full 10 seconds, which is insane.
They can’t help pin you down, they can’t deal much damage to you, and I don’t think they can stomp anyone or revive a teammate.
If you’re playing a high burst build, in theory that elite could be the deciding factor in allowing you to win 1v2.
You could also destroy a Bunker with it by shutting down all their defenses. Especially if someone can immobilize them.
It’s also an effective Anti-Elite. Many elites used by others can be completely shut down by it, on top of taking them out of the fight for 10 seconds.

I would never use moa morph. It’s simply inferior to the other mesmer elites.

In a 1v1, they just use the 5 skill to run away, and keep running away until it is over. Useless.

In a team fight, it takes 1 person out of the fight. On the other hand, time warp allows your team to burn down multiple people, as well as multiple quickness stomps. It is better in pretty much all ways.

In a direct comparison to basilisk venom, one of the major differences is the cooldown. BV has a base cd of 45 seconds, and can even be traited to 36(?). Moa is stuck at 210 seconds. Additionally, the BV buff persists for 30(?) seconds before expiring, which means you can have it charged up for a long time before you actually need to expend it in some situations, making the cooldown situationally far lower, while you can’t do anything like that with Moa.

Also, there are no traits that interact with Moa. You can trait the cd of BV, you can trait for venomshare, you can trait for healing on venoms, you can trait for might on activation, and you can trait for increased applications of the venoms. This means you can really load up this simple elite with a ton of extra utility and uses.

Really the only downside of BV is the 1 second activation time compared to all the other venoms, which has definitely thrown me for a loop when I forget to wait that full second. Other than that, it is far better than Moa in so many different ways.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Also, there are no traits that interact with Moa. You can trait the cd of BV, you can trait for venomshare, you can trait for healing on venoms, you can trait for might on activation, and you can trait for increased applications of the venoms. This means you can really load up this simple elite with a ton of extra utility and uses.

There are some problems with those and BV though, for example the might on application is only useful if your not planning to utilize the as much 30 second pre-use time as possible and the extra applications and venom share are not as useful on BV as say DV due to the non stacking nature of the debuff against a single target unless your team is timing it (and thus doing bugger all damage during this period) your most likely only going to get maybe 2-2.5 seconds of stun time from all the applications.

More useful in multiple target situations but no where near strong enough to warrant its “elite” status, while moa as less useful it is compared to other elites available to mesmer still is pretty elite, removing someone from combat from 10 seconds even if you don’t kill them (killing is not the only way to win, if the enemy flee’s for all intents and purposes other than loot/xp you’ve won)

That said its not really a good comparison the two skills are massively different but BV is by no means an impressive elite, its at best a slightly weaker regular utility we just happen to be able to use in elite slot and just because it can be “ok” if you change your entire build for it… thats kind of a silly requirement to get a decent use out of an elite skill.

@Dasorine: BV is weaker than a lot of other elites, but you seem to be completely forgetting that it also has a ridiculously low cooldown. 45 seconds is the cooldown of a utility skill, not an elite, so if you think of it as just running another venom utility in your elite slot (which, by the way, I would give an arm and a leg on my mesmer to do) then it looks a bit more normal. Being an elite, of course, you can do some interesting things with rune sets like lyssa.

yeah, its just that overall even in that case devourer venom is for most purposes much superior, 2 second immobilize that stacks with at least 2 applications compared to the singular 1.5s stun.

As an elite for the majority of thieves its just not… “elite” specially when compared to other skills that do what BV does but generally better that other people get against them the BV’s only pros are the precastability and defiant ignore the rest tend to have longer and stackable stuns, shorter cooldowns and additional effects.

Dasorine.1964:

yeah, its just that overall even in that case devourer venom is for most purposes much superior, 2 second immobilize that stacks with at least 2 applications compared to the singular 1.5s stun.

As an elite for the majority of thieves its just not… “elite” specially when compared to other skills that do what BV does but generally better that other people get.

DV is objectively better than BV in every possible way, that I will concede, and it is something that should be looked into.