Guild Wars 2

this skill seems like the most underrated overpowered skill in the whole game …..
the blind is really way too much.
i have no idea how to nerf it, so no need to ask.
but it’s like hell when i play any melee weapon, i can’t even touch him.

Actually, there’s a really easy way to nerf it…make it so it sets the blinding field on the target.

stay outside of blackpowder circle and attack with range weapon or (yes!!) with melee weapon. yes that’s right – melee weapon! why? because if the thief standing in BP can attack u with sword or dagger, u can attack him too, because u have the same range with your melee weapon. if u can’t hit him (standing outside the circle) the thief can’t hit u too. “bums-aus-ende” as we german say

how to stay outside the BP circle? don’t touch the “edge” of the circle.

BP is annoying? yes, but there are always skills which need a special counter play.

BP nerf? maybe decrease duration and reduce initiative costs BUT this will change nothing – there will be people still complaining about BP. pulse every 2 sec? possible, but the first blind pulse have to after 1 sec (now) or immediately after cast otherwise this defense skill is useless.

simply the best counter play is stay away from the 120 range units BP circle and attack from outside or keep cool and wait a little moment what u will also do if a mesmer attack with sword #2 or an elementalist with d/d earth #5. pull the thief outside the circle or type ./laugh @ – there are enough possible ways

It’s hardly underrated, but I agree it’s borderline overpowered.

I mean it’s practically melee impunity that requires accurate positioning, fast attacks or shadowsteps + burst to work around. Considering it’s spamable that makes it very, very potent.

I mean simply the fact that even in PvE it allows us to kill many mobs without even taking damage should be a clear indicator that something is broken.

But it’s a difficult skill to nerf, assuming you’d want to, since it’s so key to the D/P play-style and a big part of what makes S/P so powerful in PvE. Reducing the Blind frequency would just make it feel random and impotent, sometimes working, sometimes not. Nobody likes skills like that.

Dee Jay.2460:

Reducing the Blind frequency would just make it feel random and impotent, sometimes working, sometimes not. Nobody likes skills like that.

that’s it. thieves don’t need skills and traits they can’t rely on. why? they are squishy of medium armor and very low base hp.

btw there are many skills which are OP in pve: deathblossom-spam, the new warrior heal. anet can nerd BP in pve simple and very easy – just give the npcs a little bit more AI. not like the BORG but similar

I think it would go a long way to reduce the duration of the blind field. 3 seconds duration, maybe even 2. (I’d prefer 2, black powder is a huge crutch)

FeelsAlright.5860:

I think it would go a long way to reduce the duration of the blind field. 3 seconds duration, maybe even 2. (I’d prefer 2, black powder is a huge crutch)

6 initiative and 2 sec blind ? You must kidding right ?
BTW All autoattack has 130+ range and Black Powder radius is maybe 110 diameter 220, tell me where is problem ?

Evilek.5690:

FeelsAlright.5860:

I think it would go a long way to reduce the duration of the blind field. 3 seconds duration, maybe even 2. (I’d prefer 2, black powder is a huge crutch)

6 initiative and 2 sec blind ? You must kidding right ?
BTW All autoattack has 130+ range and Black Powder radius is maybe 110 diameter 220, tell me where is problem ?

Its not just about the field, it gives you so much more than that. It takes away any counterplay after leaving stealth, the field lasts longer than revealed does, and it prevents any counterplay of entering stealth. It denies melee’s chances of fighting back at all. The field simultaneously gives you melee immunity and easy access to stealth (which then gives you burst and healing). So yes the duration needs to be decreased to provide smarter play, more risk for the reward. Instead of just using it whenever.

Melee immunity ? I must play really other game

FeelsAlright.5860:

Evilek.5690:

FeelsAlright.5860:

I think it would go a long way to reduce the duration of the blind field. 3 seconds duration, maybe even 2. (I’d prefer 2, black powder is a huge crutch)

6 initiative and 2 sec blind ? You must kidding right ?
BTW All autoattack has 130+ range and Black Powder radius is maybe 110 diameter 220, tell me where is problem ?

Its not just about the field, it gives you so much more than that. It takes away any counterplay after leaving stealth, the field lasts longer than revealed does, and it prevents any counterplay of entering stealth. It denies melee’s chances of fighting back at all. The field simultaneously gives you melee immunity and easy access to stealth (which then gives you burst and healing). So yes the duration needs to be decreased to provide smarter play, more risk for the reward. Instead of just using it whenever.

First off it does not deny melee anything. Only an idiot would stand in the bp ring and every class has an imob, knockback, stun, or attack that can hit the thief. 100 blades can hit the entire circle and has a very quick cooldown. 5 on warrior gun will smack the thief out of the field. 4 on thief pistol will stun the thief, preventing stealth. I’m not even going to dip into any pull abilities or necro fear.

It’s not very noobie-friendly, but any experienced player will know what to do to counter it. It’s mostly used for stomping warriors/rangers etc anyway. (except for stealthing, ofc)

Bads like complaining about BP… I think that’s all that really needs to be said here.

Evernessince.8035:

First off it does not deny melee anything. Only an idiot would stand in the bp ring and every class has an imob, knockback, stun, or attack that can hit the thief. 100 blades can hit the entire circle and has a very quick cooldown. 5 on warrior gun will smack the thief out of the field. 4 on thief pistol will stun the thief, preventing stealth. I’m not even going to dip into any pull abilities or necro fear.

Most auto attacks have 130 range.. stand on the other side of the powder… 220 range away and you’ll never get hit. I agree stuns are very good against preventing stealth but none of them last 4 seconds. Let alone having the chance to even use the skill. Black powder can blind you from 900 range away, to get that stun off you need to move closer, use an auto attack to clear the blind, and then use your stun which probably has a cast time, all before someone can heart seeker through the field?

I still say, reduce the field to 3 seconds, reduce the initiative cost to 5 (this will at least give some gap between revealed and stealthed, while keeping the field/init ratio about the same) and possibly remove the blinding projectile.

this whole conversation is stupid. really. … its the smallest AOE in game…. for 1.

for 2…its the only way a thief can really get in the skinny of battle and not get obliterated by collateral dmg from others melee attacks…. even tho AOE will totally do the job.

u can attack the thief fine when hes hiding in Black powder just think! go up to the edge and theres nothing he can do. cmon guys L2p really.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Evernessince.8035:

First off it does not deny melee anything. Only an idiot would stand in the bp ring and every class has an imob, knockback, stun, or attack that can hit the thief. 100 blades can hit the entire circle and has a very quick cooldown. 5 on warrior gun will smack the thief out of the field. 4 on thief pistol will stun the thief, preventing stealth. I’m not even going to dip into any pull abilities or necro fear.

Most auto attacks have 130 range.. stand on the other side of the powder… 220 range away and you’ll never get hit. I agree stuns are very good against preventing stealth but none of them last 4 seconds. Let alone having the chance to even use the skill. Black powder can blind you from 900 range away, to get that stun off you need to move closer, use an auto attack to clear the blind, and then use your stun which probably has a cast time, all before someone can heart seeker through the field?

I still say, reduce the field to 3 seconds, reduce the initiative cost to 5 (this will at least give some gap between revealed and stealthed, while keeping the field/init ratio about the same) and possibly remove the blinding projectile.

good point! did you take into consideration the radius of the players hit circle? its almost as big as blinding powder. oh yeah so that leaves like 10 range gap…. i think 130 is greater than 10 range. even if it wer 20 range. pfft.

you almost had a point there….darn. if u did have a point it would be under the premise that each player has a .0000000001 radius hit circle. cmon thats sillyl

Travlane.5948:

good point! did you take into consideration the radius of the players hit circle? its almost as big as blinding powder. oh yeah so that leaves like 10 range gap…. i think 130 is greater than 10 range. even if it wer 20 range. pfft.

you almost had a point there….darn. if u did have a point it would be under the premise that each player has a .0000000001 radius hit circle. cmon thats sillyl

So if everyone’kitten circle is as big as the powder radius wouldn’t that make me get blinded even further away from the circle? Increasing the gap between players. It doesn’t make sense.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Travlane.5948:

good point! did you take into consideration the radius of the players hit circle? its almost as big as blinding powder. oh yeah so that leaves like 10 range gap…. i think 130 is greater than 10 range. even if it wer 20 range. pfft.

you almost had a point there….darn. if u did have a point it would be under the premise that each player has a .0000000001 radius hit circle. cmon thats sillyl

So if everyone’kitten circle is as big as the powder radius wouldn’t that make me get blinded even further away from the circle? Increasing the gap between players. It doesn’t make sense.

its hard concept tounderstand. allow me to try simplify it.

lets say black powder is 220 diameter now lets say that a players hit diameter is 180. a pretty close ratio no doubt. now lets cast black powder shot… and move the thief so his heels are on the rear of the aoe blind field. this cuts his hit diameter in half if you are attacking from his front. so 220-90 = 130. 130 = normal melee range. as long as he is inside of the circle….. u can hit him no matter what. this is 100% fact. i can prove it to you if you like too but not taking the time to make a video on commonplace knowledge unless you place a bet with a medium party.

that all said….. even if u stand inside with him 2 out of 3 hits will still connect even with melee attacks on most characters. not to mention all the other burst and whirl and multiple hit attacks every player has which hit at 80-90% inside the circle. so in the big picture it only affects new/bad players at a really high percentile.

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass.

I confirm this.

BP is usually a type of counter to a big burst you see coming. D/P thief just went stealth on you? Let out a black Powder and stand in the middle, it’ll save you from a single backstab. See Eviscerate coming? Black Powder.

@Saturn
It reminds me fighting against a dps guardian, who literally stood all the time inside BPs, casting random flurry of attacks at me that ignored the blind, and to make it even funnier about 30% (if not more) of thier total damage output was from retailation. There was no kittens way I could do anything to them.

So, we have flurries of attacks, ranged weapons, condi immunities, pushback/pull, and simply standing outside of the field – it sounds to me like a decent counter list.

The radius of the field is less than the range of any basic melee attack. Only fools get “blind spammed” by this skill.

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass.

I confirm this.

BP is usually a type of counter to a big burst you see coming. D/P thief just went stealth on you? Let out a black Powder and stand in the middle, it’ll save you from a single backstab. See Eviscerate coming? Black Powder.

wrong :P srry just wrong. again bet money and ill make a quick 20 sec video.

you all spread so many lies and misinformation. black powder is a deterent not from quick burst combos but from normal melee auto attacks and such. its to cut dmg a bit…even if only 25-33% against and average to decent player…..at the cost of half of the thieves attacks.

NinjaEd.3946:

The radius of the field is less than the range of any basic melee attack. Only fools get “blind spammed” by this skill.

i know…i explained this to “FEELS ALRIGHT” andhe didnt respond since for the obvious reason :P

x.X just agree with those that cry and support their idea to nerf black powder…
There’s too many of them to even try and argue…

Here is your OP Black Powder

RyuDragnier.9476:

See Eviscerate coming? Black Powder.

If you’re out of stun cooldowns (which you really shouldn’t be), time your Eviserate right when the Thief uses his heartseeker. You will “track” him and be able to hit him when he is out of his blackpowder field.

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

If you would have taken the time to actually READ my post, you would have noticed that I don’t feel like blackpowder is overpowered at all. Thus, my post is obviously directed at those who say it is… which is not what you are saying. But judging from the fact that you instantly start to challenge people for no reason and want to bet for gold, I shouldn’t be surprised that you’ve missed the point of my post.

Any DECENT player knows how to keep just outside the BP circle and destroy the thief using BP.

Chicago Jack.5647:

RyuDragnier.9476:

See Eviscerate coming? Black Powder.

If you’re out of stun cooldowns (which you really shouldn’t be), time your Eviserate right when the Thief uses his heartseeker. You will “track” him and be able to hit him when he is out of his blackpowder field.

I didn’t say heartseeker. I hate the BP/HS combo for 1v1, it is a cheese move. But BP by itself to dodge some heavy burst skills? I’ll use it.

Saturn.6591:

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

If you would have taken the time to actually READ my post, you would have noticed that I don’t feel like blackpowder is overpowered at all. Thus, my post is obviously directed at those who say it is… which is not what you are saying. But judging from the fact that you instantly start to challenge people for no reason and want to bet for gold, I shouldn’t be surprised that you’ve missed the point of my post.

i was talking to all whom think BP is OP. if that includes you then yeah,….if it doesnt then i wasnt talkuing to you….if u read other’s comments….

Evilek.5690:

Here is your OP Black Powder

Dat MS Paint skill

:| To think you can easily and clearly explain the counter to the all mighty BP by a simple drawing in paint….
Don’t know how you managed to capture it all…

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

If you would have taken the time to actually READ my post, you would have noticed that I don’t feel like blackpowder is overpowered at all. Thus, my post is obviously directed at those who say it is… which is not what you are saying. But judging from the fact that you instantly start to challenge people for no reason and want to bet for gold, I shouldn’t be surprised that you’ve missed the point of my post.

i was talking to all whom think BP is OP. if that includes you then yeah,….if it doesnt then i wasnt talkuing to you….if u read other’s comments….

Now that’s a lame excuse. You actually QUOTED ME. And if you quote me, I take it that you’re talking about what I’ve written in that quote. I mean… that’s the purpose of quoting, right? To make clear to what you are responding to. So my point still stands.

Just for evidence:

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

Thief is already nerfed to dust, so yes let’s propose to nerf it further or remove that class from the game alltogether. Jeez.

Saturn.6591:

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

If you would have taken the time to actually READ my post, you would have noticed that I don’t feel like blackpowder is overpowered at all. Thus, my post is obviously directed at those who say it is… which is not what you are saying. But judging from the fact that you instantly start to challenge people for no reason and want to bet for gold, I shouldn’t be surprised that you’ve missed the point of my post.

i was talking to all whom think BP is OP. if that includes you then yeah,….if it doesnt then i wasnt talkuing to you….if u read other’s comments….

Now that’s a lame excuse. You actually QUOTED ME. And if you quote me, I take it that you’re talking about what I’ve written in that quote. I mean… that’s the purpose of quoting, right? To make clear to what you are responding to. So my point still stands.

Just for evidence:

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

who me? bet 25g or something nominal in the range and ill make a video showing you how silly you sound.

they way you stated it you could be the person casting BP or the person who is inside it trying to kill the thief. think about it

Travlane.5948:

they way you stated it you could be the person casting BP or the person who is inside it trying to kill the thief. think about it

So first you claim that you were not talking to me, when you actually quoted my post and wrote your reply below that quote. Now that this didn’t work, you claim that I could have been the guy attacking the Thief in my example. Again wrong, and I’ll explain you why:

“Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up.”

1. I’m mentioning that I could attempt to facetank NPCs while standing in Black Powder. However, the only NPC I know of who uses this skill is the Thief NPC in the mists. You need a big amount of fantasy to even assume that I’m refering to that NPC.

2. If I would not be the Thief in this example, Black Powder would have no effect whatsoever on my ability to facetank someone. On my ability to do damage, yes. But not on my ability to facetank, since that’s about receiving damage and not about dealing it. Thus, it’s obvious that I’m the Thief in this example.

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

Dear Saturn,

you wrote;

“. . .facetank someone. . .while standing in black powder, I’ve not done so for very long I had to dodge out and heal up.”

Can you tell me, by this statement, if you are the thief or the guy attacking the thief? ah you can’t! Please learn to describe what you mean before you attack somebody for misunderstanding what you MEANT and not what you actually WROTE.

thanks
everyone on the forums who reads/writes english

The radius of BP is so small even if a thief is standing on the other side you can still hit them with any auto attack.

It’s a very easy to use skill, but it’s also easy to counter. You’ll find fights against experienced players means it doesn’t provide much benefit. At the cost of 6 initiative it’s often not worth using exclusively as a blind against experienced play.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually, there’s a really easy way to nerf it…make it so it sets the blinding field on the target.

That’s easy to do?

Travlane.5948:

Saturn.6591:

Believe me when I say that whenever I’ve tried to facetank someone who’s not an NPC while standing in Black Powder, I’ve not done so for very long before I had to dodge out and heal up. And I’m NOT full glass. So I guess you must be trolling.

Dear Saturn,

you wrote;

“. . .facetank someone. . .while standing in black powder, I’ve not done so for very long I had to dodge out and heal up.”

Can you tell me, by this statement, if you are the thief or the guy attacking the thief? ah you can’t! Please learn to describe what you mean before you attack somebody for misunderstanding what you MEANT and not what you actually WROTE.

thanks
everyone on the forums who reads/writes english

Dear Travlane, I’ve already exactly explained you why it’s obvious. Also, you should read the full sentence. And again, if I (= ME) try to facetank someone in blackpowder… how would blackpowder have ANY effect on my ability to faceTANK someone if I would be the attacker? That alone makes it VERY obvious. And now go improve your understanding of the english language. Or at the very least, that thing called “reading comprehension”. Thanks.

Kaizer.7135:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Actually, there’s a really easy way to nerf it…make it so it sets the blinding field on the target.

That’s easy to do?

From a coding aspect, unless they really did horribly on how things are coded, it would be simple to change, maybe a few hours worth of coding.

actually BP on target would be a buff lol, i would need to aim it to land it on target anymore, still will be able to get HS combo too, BS will be even easier

Cynz.9437:

actually BP on target would be a buff lol, i would need to aim it to land it on target anymore, still will be able to get HS combo too, BS will be even easier

Actually, it would destroy BP→ HS spam from anything other than the target. Meaning it’ll be easier to counter. All those AoEs sitting right there on top of the spot they have to HS in? They even try, they can and will get hit hard. BP → HS will become high risk high reward like CnD, which fixes how it is right now, which is low risk high reward.

^It wouldn’t make much sense, though; unless they rename it to “smoke grenade”. Smoke from blackpowder will logically always be created where the gun is fired, and not where the target is (unless you are standing close to the target of course).

Saturn.6591:

^It wouldn’t make much sense, though; unless they rename it to “smoke grenade”. Smoke from blackpowder will logically always be created where the gun is fired, and not where the target is (unless you are standing close to the target of course).

Well it’s the only way to really nerf the stealth spam combo with D/P, short of changing the field to Dark or removing the leap finisher from Heartseeker…something none of us want.

somepeople keep want thief underpowered while their class overpowered

You know, this sub forum has about as much constructive conversations as youtube these days. Next thing is scorpion wire too op, assassin’s reward op, dagger #4 op.

Sorry for the negativity, but this is just a joke lately. I visit other class sub forums just to see how things are and I don’t see even 10% of it to be “op” posts of any kind. granted most op posts here are trolls, it gets taken seriously…. and anet listens to them time to time. I miss the age where gamers weren’t out to ruin one anothers’ day.

what they said “OP” is what thief mean to be.. thief should be harder to catch.

I only think it’s an annoying skill because it’s a combo attack right off the bat, it creates the field and immediately launches a physical projectile. I’m not a fan of skills being able to combo off themselves.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder
It’s under notes labeled “2.”

Leave BP alone… or give us stability, take away 0.5 casting time in IR, more HP and toughness or maybe more ways to get rid of conditions, because if you nerf BP, you nerv a way to get invisible AND a way to get rid of conditions. It’s ridiculous, how OP other classes skills are (warrior new heal cough and so on), but hey, there is the thief class, why not grind their gears…