Guild Wars 2

So after my initial excursion into D/D play-style following the Dec 10th patch I recently reverted back to D/P for WvW.

And while I still prefer the overall play-style of D/D I just cannot deny how extremely powerful Black Powder is. In fact I think it’s somewhat overpowered.

Depending on what exactly ability they’re using, Black Powder can give us near immunity to melee damage. And most classes only use ranged weapons as a fall-back option. But even Shadow Shot allows us to instantly close any gap that may be opened and then we’re back to using Black Powder.

Black Powder also hard-counters pretty much all Thief builds that rely on Cloak and Dagger if you don’t allow them to cloak of NPCs or critters. I know there are a few tricks to get past Black Powder but they require immaculate timing and cooldowns.

I don’t know, but I feel Black Powder is kind of cheap. I know the build requires it and you can’t just simply nerf it, but I do think it’s too much of a hard-counter to too many builds.

well tell me this. is there ANY other way you can go melee without dodging every second to stay alive? mm?

guardian can sit there in PVE and take on 7-8 enemys with just auto attack alone and neverhave to hit a heal button. thief can only do that with 1 enemy at a time.

are you SUUUUUUUUUUURE black powder shot is OP? really?!

If you position yourself just correctly you can still melee opponents standing in a BP field.

also… you say it hard counters the need to enter stealth with CND?

CND is NOT…thats right its NOT a pre requisite to enter stealth.

lets take a look.

CND
6 init
good dmg
vulnerabilty
enter stealth 3 secs

BPS + HS
6 init + 3 init = 9 init
3 secs of blind field
Few hundred dmg (BPS)
HS usually misses but only hits 1k maybe (not using this combo when opp HP low)

so CND does like 5x more dmg atleast and costs 50% less init. yet you say BPS bypasses the need for CND even tho CND is not a prereq to enter stealth.

stealth is entered in a few diff ways.

1) utility
2) CND
3)trait
4)Blind field + blast finisher/leap finisher

see how CND is only 1 of those? its not the main one or base mechanic.

rly? Stay out of blackpowder and win all fights.

Only newplayers die for blackpowder.

Dee Jay.2460:

Black Powder also hard-counters pretty much all Thief builds that rely on Cloak and Dagger if you don’t allow them to cloak of NPCs or critters. I know there are a few tricks to get past Black Powder but they require immaculate timing and cooldowns.

Travlane.5948:

so CND does like 5x more dmg atleast and costs 50% less init. yet you say BPS bypasses the need for CND even tho CND is not a prereq to enter stealth.

Trav I believe what he is saying is that in a thief vs thief fight, Black Powder counters the ability for the opposing thief to C&D.

BP is noob check, and yes you can still use melee attacks while sitting outside of BP field… BP also doesn’t do dmg

100b, whirling axe, whriling wrath, any fast hitting melee skill still gets it’s share of hits in. If the enemy is kitten enough to sit on top of BPS and use them, they deserve to miss. It costs 6 initiative, deals pathetic damage, its a utility skill. It serves no other purpose than a smoke/blind field.

Also not to mention that Black Powder only lasts for awhile. If you use them in PvE against mobs, sure they’ll be effective but they cost a lot of initiatives which in turn leaves you to auto attack for a while till it regenerates back. Secondly, it is not that OP on bosses that have Defiant states.

Arganthium.5638:

If you position yourself just correctly you can still melee opponents standing in a BP field.

Except when a warrior puts on Berserker’s Stance and stands in it with you with his hammer out and decides to say hi.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Arganthium.5638:

If you position yourself just correctly you can still melee opponents standing in a BP field.

Except when a warrior puts on Berserker’s Stance and stands in it with you with his hammer out and decides to say hi.

Yeah they do that in a lot of situations. Feelings aside I think warrior has the least issue with this, so the question is what class is the OP really playing? Can’t be thief, or they would realize how kitten pathetic we are.

Oh my god lol…

Please… make……. make it stop!!…….

Black powder is really only handy in PvE where you’re facing loads of trash mobs. Usually in boss fights you need to remain mobile since they have moves that ignores blind (burst or persistent AoE/PbAoE damage) and in PvP/WvW, like said already, you’ll really have to be very new to stay in the smoke field.

It’s a skill that’s situational and can be easily countered. That’s not what overpowered is.

It’s nice for stomps.

Woaden.9425:

Dee Jay.2460:

Black Powder also hard-counters pretty much all Thief builds that rely on Cloak and Dagger if you don’t allow them to cloak of NPCs or critters. I know there are a few tricks to get past Black Powder but they require immaculate timing and cooldowns.

Travlane.5948:

so CND does like 5x more dmg atleast and costs 50% less init. yet you say BPS bypasses the need for CND even tho CND is not a prereq to enter stealth.

Trav I believe what he is saying is that in a thief vs thief fight, Black Powder counters the ability for the opposing thief to C&D.

it doesnt. unless its a new thief.

bps is best in pve…. but its totally fair. if u dont think its fair go take 10 risen mobs at same time with guardian. then take on 10 with d/d thief. tell me how much fun you have bye

^ Death Blossom and Cantrips with Signet of Malice. Give us a difficult one.

Interceptor.2653:

^ Death Blossom and Cantrips with Signet of Malice. Give us a difficult one.

caltrops* i think u mean. play thief much? or is that some kind of sarcasm i havent heard yet?

anyway no that wont do it. maybe against 10 hammer risen that attack every 4s each. but u get 2 of each. 2 necro 2 ele 2 thief 2 hammer etc etc you will be taking too much dmg.

and nobody runs SOM with dagger/dagger unless they are putting a whole build around it. d/d is 98% of the time run for burst/spike dmg.

so after you waste 4-5 death blossoms then what? how will u finish the few you actually hit? and then how would u do the first hits on the other 5 or 6 u havent touched yet? did you plan on using scorp wire on all 10 and bringing them in like a GS guardian skill 5 binding blade? nah that would take about 110seconds exactly if u were quick quick quick.

so basically the example u gave was interesting but no. even if it DID work….guardian would have used 0 utils. well maybe 1? and only weapon attacks with no heal. thief would have to use EVERYTHING including dodges, evades, 7-8x as many attacks, lots of heal, and take about 2-3x longer bc he cant group them up.

interesting tho that you think a thief can do it as easily as a guard. id ask u to make a video but nobody on here ever does. ill make one but not until somebody else backs up what they say.

BPS is fine the way it is. people need to stick to PVE if they cant handle it. i always suggest to people to play thief. just make one to lvl 80…. and quit it. even delete it. atleast then they know what to expect how to play and counterplay etc.

maybe they will learn how to combo with CANTRIPS ;0

Travlane.5948:

Interceptor.2653:

^ Death Blossom and Cantrips with Signet of Malice. Give us a difficult one.

caltrops* i think u mean. play thief much? or is that some kind of sarcasm i havent heard yet?

anyway no that wont do it. maybe against 10 hammer risen that attack every 4s each. but u get 2 of each. 2 necro 2 ele 2 thief 2 hammer etc etc you will be taking too much dmg.

and nobody runs SOM with dagger/dagger unless they are putting a whole build around it. d/d is 98% of the time run for burst/spike dmg.

so after you waste 4-5 death blossoms then what? how will u finish the few you actually hit? and then how would u do the first hits on the other 5 or 6 u havent touched yet? did you plan on using scorp wire on all 10 and bringing them in like a GS guardian skill 5 binding blade? nah that would take about 110seconds exactly if u were quick quick quick.

so basically the example u gave was interesting but no. even if it DID work….guardian would have used 0 utils. well maybe 1? and only weapon attacks with no heal. thief would have to use EVERYTHING including dodges, evades, 7-8x as many attacks, lots of heal, and take about 2-3x longer bc he cant group them up.

interesting tho that you think a thief can do it as easily as a guard. id ask u to make a video but nobody on here ever does. ill make one but not until somebody else backs up what they say.

maybe they will learn how to combo with CANTRIPS ;0

I think you should probably not emphasise a mistype. I’ve done that a few times even with 5k hours on my Thief. These things happen. People are human.

May I ask, do you even have or play a Guardian to any serious extent, and how often do you think outside the box?

For one thing, Guardians are not all-powerful gods that can afk every encounter and put down amazing DPS in the process like you seem to think. Perhaps you’ve been WvWing against Cleric Guardians too much, but those guys are going absolutely nowhere against mobs any time soon.

Second, you do not need an AoE pull to stack some mobs together. You can just walk around a piece of terrain and et voila, everything has now ventured in to one place. Lower DPS than a Guardian just because of a lack of AoE pulling is absolute nonsense and you know it. At least, I hope so. Heck, you don’t even need terrain, you can just utilise positioning to manipulate chasing mobs such that they are closer together.

Sometimes, if I’m not running full Berserker 25/30/0/0/15 in PvE, I will have accidentally carried over my WvW build after forgetting to change it, which has full Shadow Arts investment. This alone is more than enough to annihilate packs of Risen without any problems at all. SoM condition builds aren’t even necessary.

Thief is one of the better classes for PvE. If you play it right, it’s easily one of the most survivable while also being insanely deadly. People need to stop looking at Soldier classes and screaming DEY DO EVERYTIN BETUR AMG.

On topic, I don’t think BP is necessarily overpowered. It’s only amazingly effective against D/D Thieves because Cloak and Dagger is the bread and butter of how they play and large amount of Blind heavily detriments that playstyle.

As others have pointed out Black Powder is very easy to counter. Against any player that has experience with playing against it only 1 blind should hit, and that’s the projectile blind. The AoE is so small that you can melee players while standing outside of it.

Depending on what exactly ability they’re using, Black Powder can give us near immunity to melee damage.

As stated above, melee attacks have long enough range to hit someone in black powder without being blinded, unless the user of the black powder is standing as far away from said attacker as possible while still being inside the ring, in which case the user cannot attack either.

Black Powder also hard-counters pretty much all Thief builds that rely on Cloak and Dagger.

Well, seeing as P/D is a ranged weapon, it wouldn’t have that much of a problem against D/P. D/D on the other hand can also easily win against D/P by simply being patient. Most likely any user of D/P will at some point use heartseeker to stealth, and that is the D/D user’s window. The D/D user can simply CnD when the D/Per heartseeks, and it will hit them as long as the D/Per was locked onto the D/D user. In a less likely case though, the D/P user might detarget the opponent to heartseek, sacrificing the damage of the heartseeker in return for safety and/or chaining. If that happens, then the D/D user just needs to predict the movements of the D/Per. A D/Per will always try to backstab the opponent, and in most cases as quickly as possible. That being said, it is more than likely that the said D/Per will located behind the D/D user, so he/she can just CnD behind themselves.

A few things. Guardian do not 1 v 10 mobs in Orr unless they are built clerics or using a staff which is not DPS. BP as it has been pointed out and will be pointed out some more you can simply stand outside the circle and still land melee hits. 1 v x PvE is still thief topping the chart with S/P. Whether you plan to sit in the circle and auto attack or use PW and evade it pretty much lets you 1 v x anything that is not a champ or ranged.

If anything is over powered about DP we all know it isn’t the stealth or black powder.

panicbutton.1053:

d/d is viable in pve… not quite the same for wvw/pvp though.

I always liked watching Mandrakes videos when it came to death blossom and soloing champions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7dtZGnlMdE

true true. dont even have to see the vid. but its a condi build right. over 1 year of playing ive NEVER seen a d/d condi build in dungeon or organized play. only open pve.

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

Interceptor.2653:

^ Death Blossom and Cantrips with Signet of Malice. Give us a difficult one.

caltrops* i think u mean. play thief much? or is that some kind of sarcasm i havent heard yet?

anyway no that wont do it. maybe against 10 hammer risen that attack every 4s each. but u get 2 of each. 2 necro 2 ele 2 thief 2 hammer etc etc you will be taking too much dmg.

and nobody runs SOM with dagger/dagger unless they are putting a whole build around it. d/d is 98% of the time run for burst/spike dmg.

so after you waste 4-5 death blossoms then what? how will u finish the few you actually hit? and then how would u do the first hits on the other 5 or 6 u havent touched yet? did you plan on using scorp wire on all 10 and bringing them in like a GS guardian skill 5 binding blade? nah that would take about 110seconds exactly if u were quick quick quick.

so basically the example u gave was interesting but no. even if it DID work….guardian would have used 0 utils. well maybe 1? and only weapon attacks with no heal. thief would have to use EVERYTHING including dodges, evades, 7-8x as many attacks, lots of heal, and take about 2-3x longer bc he cant group them up.

interesting tho that you think a thief can do it as easily as a guard. id ask u to make a video but nobody on here ever does. ill make one but not until somebody else backs up what they say.

maybe they will learn how to combo with CANTRIPS ;0

I think you should probably not emphasise a mistype. I’ve done that a few times even with 5k hours on my Thief. These things happen. People are human.

May I ask, do you even have or play a Guardian to any serious extent, and how often do you think outside the box?

For one thing, Guardians are not all-powerful gods that can afk every encounter and put down amazing DPS in the process like you seem to think. Perhaps you’ve been WvWing against Cleric Guardians too much, but those guys are going absolutely nowhere against mobs any time soon.

Second, you do not need an AoE pull to stack some mobs together. You can just walk around a piece of terrain and et voila, everything has now ventured in to one place. Lower DPS than a Guardian just because of a lack of AoE pulling is absolute nonsense and you know it. At least, I hope so. Heck, you don’t even need terrain, you can just utilise positioning to manipulate chasing mobs such that they are closer together.

Sometimes, if I’m not running full Berserker 25/30/0/0/15 in PvE, I will have accidentally carried over my WvW build after forgetting to change it, which has full Shadow Arts investment. This alone is more than enough to annihilate packs of Risen without any problems at all. SoM condition builds aren’t even necessary.

Thief is one of the better classes for PvE. If you play it right, it’s easily one of the most survivable while also being insanely deadly. People need to stop looking at Soldier classes and screaming DEY DO EVERYTIN BETUR AMG.

On topic, I don’t think BP is necessarily overpowered. It’s only amazingly effective against D/D Thieves because Cloak and Dagger is the bread and butter of how they play and large amount of Blind heavily detriments that playstyle.

95% is on my thief. prolly 350-400 hours on guardian. well enough but not a master by any means. i can tpvp with him very well but i wouldnt call my guard for a 1v1 battle as im not THAT amazing w/ him.

point isnt that guards are gods. point is u dont have to play one well to get by. u can press 1. go take a bio break. come back and the veteran will be dead. lol. many other class can do this too…. maybe not to that extent but still. and its only PVE so its not like theay re that easy in WVW/PVP although still MUCH easier than a thief. point is a thief has less room to wiggle. guard can afford 7 or so more mistakes if not alot more in a fight than a thief without having been downed for it. THAT was the point. not that they are gods are going to win every even fight….but they dont have to really try to do well/survive where as a thief has to at all times. which makes thief harder to play and also easier to make look like a horrible class and people say No ty i dont want any thieves in this experienced dungeon/fractals speed run. thats what i meant. ive seen people say cantrips before and this player too so :P not a 1 time thing. wasnt a mistype. caltrips. cantrops. those are :P peace out guys

it’s effective to some point. sure, not all the time but…it already costs 6 ini. that’s already alot.

Nema Tode.5637:

*D/D on the other hand can also easily win against D/P by simply being patient. Most likely any user of D/P will at some point use heartseeker to stealth, and that is the D/D user’s window. The D/D user can simply CnD when the D/Per heartseeks, and it will hit them as long as the D/Per was locked onto the D/D user. In a less likely case though, the D/P user might detarget the opponent to heartseek, sacrificing the damage of the heartseeker in return for safety and/or chaining. If that happens, then the D/D user just needs to predict the movements of the D/Per. A D/Per will always try to backstab the opponent, and in most cases as quickly as possible. That being said, it is more than likely that the said D/Per will located behind the D/D user, so he/she can just CnD behind themselves.

D/D thief here! i have a question… how do you handle the projectile blind from black powder? if you cnd right after they heartseeker stealth towards you (if they target you) your cnd will miss due to the projectile blind no?

Personally i’ve always had problems with D/P thieves, especially the semi tanky ones. If you get hit by the ranged blind you would have to auto attack them once to get rid of the blind and then cnding right after… which is abit of a challenge while they are in stealth. Are there alternatives other than to outplay them into the ground?

Please don’t say something like “just dodge the bullet!”. The best way i’ve found so far is to burst them into silliness before they can even black power but that only works against the glassy ones. Otherwise i find myself burning my utility stealths and HiS shortly after they stealth and try to BS them that way but that involves two silly thieves in stealth wildly trying to whack each other… :x

-Emi

Emi.4152:

Nema Tode.5637:

*D/D on the other hand can also easily win against D/P by simply being patient. Most likely any user of D/P will at some point use heartseeker to stealth, and that is the D/D user’s window. The D/D user can simply CnD when the D/Per heartseeks, and it will hit them as long as the D/Per was locked onto the D/D user. In a less likely case though, the D/P user might detarget the opponent to heartseek, sacrificing the damage of the heartseeker in return for safety and/or chaining. If that happens, then the D/D user just needs to predict the movements of the D/Per. A D/Per will always try to backstab the opponent, and in most cases as quickly as possible. That being said, it is more than likely that the said D/Per will located behind the D/D user, so he/she can just CnD behind themselves.

D/D thief here! i have a question… how do you handle the projectile blind from black powder? if you cnd right after they heartseeker stealth towards you (if they target you) your cnd will miss due to the projectile blind no?

Personally i’ve always had problems with D/P thieves, especially the semi tanky ones. If you get hit by the ranged blind you would have to auto attack them once to get rid of the blind and then cnding right after… which is abit of a challenge while they are in stealth. Are there alternatives other than to outplay them into the ground?

Please don’t say something like “just dodge the bullet!”. The best way i’ve found so far is to burst them into silliness before they can even black power but that only works against the glassy ones. Otherwise i find myself burning my utility stealths and HiS shortly after they stealth and try to BS them that way but that involves two silly thieves in stealth wildly trying to whack each other… :x

-Emi

u can auto attack if u project where theyland and u will see blind drop. then dodge forward and immediately turn with CND> …. lands most of the time as they are chasing u for backstab…. they only have a couple of seconds so if u dodge roll forward after AA’ing then you creat more gap of him behind you.

also if u see a thief stop….. SR or BPS is coming. Sleight of hand is your best friend here. learn it well.

Auesis.7301:

I think you should probably not emphasise a mistype. I’ve done that a few times even with 5k hours on my Thief. These things happen. People are human.

Don’t rag on him too much for it; he’s wrong, and thus doesn’t have much else to do except mock a midnight mis-type from someone who’s been in Elementalist mode all day. Grenth forbid that he admit that D/D Thieves can handle packs of mobs easily.

Interceptor.2653:

Auesis.7301:

I think you should probably not emphasise a mistype. I’ve done that a few times even with 5k hours on my Thief. These things happen. People are human.

Don’t rag on him too much for it; he’s wrong, and thus doesn’t have much else to do except mock a midnight mis-type from someone who’s been in Elementalist mode all day. Grenth forbid that he admit that D/D Thieves can handle packs of mobs easily.

say it thief can handle 10 mobs as easily as guardian. ill wait.

hahaha this threads xD . . .

OP everywhere!!
OP here ..

. . . op there . . .

i see op people. . .

Travlane.5948:

say it thief can handle 10 mobs as easily as guardian. ill wait.

Handle as easily and probably even kill them faster. D/D condition thieves in open world PvE are pretty silly, with all the bleed/stealth/evasion available. I realize that doesn’t jive with your idea of D/D as backstab-only, but such is reality.

Instead of BPS being OP, how about OH dagger is UP? We mentioned that Dancing Dagger wasn’t giving the proper length of cripple during the balance patch preview and instead of fixing the ability, they fixed the tooltip. D/D needs a buff to utility (not damage) on #3 and #4 to bring it on par with D/P instead of having D/P nerfed.

Edit: I’m just tired of everything we have being OP. Earlier this week it was SB. Now it’s BPS. After those get nerfed, then what? Wild strike (D/D auto chain hit 2) because it does too much damage and refills endurance slightly?

I agree with the fact that Black powder is overpowered.

You guys forget the fact , that when a thief uses Black powder he aint sitting there just so you can smack him outside of the circle.Its powder down, heartseeker and a surprise inside your back and repeat.

Thief is my main and i play DD all the time, but even so DP is like noobish mode for Wvw, .Most of the times you are immune against mellees, you pop down a black powder and u blind them , and boom u get easy stealth after.You dont have to worry if hes gonna finish you as u can simply play inside the powder for few secs.

On the other hand, you can simply kitten out and stealth yourself outside of battle and come back by smacking a backstab and repeat,thing wich is done by most of the DP’s.The difference with DD and Dp , is that on DD your target missses 1 attack and not like on DP wich uses all 4 seconds, as they can pop it right when they are in danger.
Not to mention that you can change 1 trait from shadows , as you dont need to blind when u get into stealth.

Even so , just the quaggans are playing DP in WvW, so give them a balloon.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

say it thief can handle 10 mobs as easily as guardian. ill wait.

Handle as easily and probably even kill them faster. D/D condition thieves in open world PvE are pretty silly, with all the bleed/stealth/evasion available. I realize that doesn’t jive with your idea of D/D as backstab-only, but such is reality.

u show me a thief doing 10 mobs same time….. without using a corner to group them. ill show u a guard doing the same ones easy and so much faster. itll be embarassing.

@OP: It is average in WvW. Any opponent with half a brain doesn’t just stand in the circle while doing melee against the thief.

It is strong in PvE type events, but that is most based on the AI design of the NPC.

Personally, I like the blind on stealth that a lot of D/D types run.

It may surprise, but not all of us play mainhand dagger with offhand pistol for WvW or the competitive PvP scene. Nerfing BP simply due to D/P being frustrating to play against would also hurt Sword/Pistol builds, as the blinds are one of our only defenses aside from dodging and interrupts. As with most thief issues people have, L2P. Nerfing the thief even further isn’t going to make us any more viable. I’m actually quite content with our place in the meta, and although we aren’t at the top, we’re still about number 5 out of 8 if you want to rate our performance in PvP, which isn’t necessarily bad. Classes like warrior, necro, guardian and mesmer are all much more powerful, and all precede thieves. All of the aforementioned classes need nerfs to some extent. As of now, I believe that thief is the most balanced of any class as far as sPvP goes.

Back on topic, Black Powder is fairly balanced right now, and does not need any changes. The point of nerfing perma stealth wasn’t to stop it from happening, it was to stop thieves using perma stealth to have the ability to immediately come out of stealth with their initiative, health, and everything recharged. Now, D/P at least requires some initiative management. Perma stealth is no longer necessarily a bad thing, although infuriating to play against, I must admit.

And as far as having a blind field that’s “OP”, try out Smoke Screen and kite your enemy back and forth through it. It’s also much, much larger of a field than Black Powder and blocks projectiles, which Black Powder does not. BP also requires 6 initiative to use, making it hurt when an enemy actually knows how to deal with it and swaps to ranged to kite until it’s gone.

Travlane.5948:

u show me a thief doing 10 mobs same time….. without using a corner to group them. ill show u a guard doing the same ones easy and so much faster. itll be embarassing.

… no scope, 180 degrees, upside-side down, Final Destination.

Nope. You show us a video of you failing to kill 10 mobs at once with Thief, and we can pick apart the various mistakes you make in the process, repeating until you’re able to succeed. It’ll be both fun and educational for everyone involved.

Funnily enough, I have actually done this vs. Dredge in the lower-level Fractals to carry a bad group of PUGs. Blinds would have been no good (obviously), so SoM-tanking with backflips and Stability saved the day.

LOL with the amount of warriors, guards, stuns, ccs, condi clear…how can it be OP? o.O

And imo, nerfing bp is another way to force thief class to stay stealted instead of play visible…
Is it really fun this crusade against this class?

I tend to counter Black Powder by not stepping in it. =P

Little do these QQ’ers know…. they have yet to experience the hidden skills that are truly OP that the thief has…. (Twisting Fangs, Repeater, Stab) Some even say they’ve one shotted warriors with these skills…

Sergiu.3698:

I agree with the fact that Black powder is overpowered.

You guys forget the fact , that when a thief uses Black powder he aint sitting there just so you can smack him outside of the circle.Its powder down, heartseeker and a surprise inside your back and repeat.

Thief is my main and i play DD all the time, but even so DP is like noobish mode for Wvw, .Most of the times you are immune against mellees, you pop down a black powder and u blind them , and boom u get easy stealth after.You dont have to worry if hes gonna finish you as u can simply play inside the powder for few secs.

On the other hand, you can simply kitten out and stealth yourself outside of battle and come back by smacking a backstab and repeat,thing wich is done by most of the DP’s.The difference with DD and Dp , is that on DD your target missses 1 attack and not like on DP wich uses all 4 seconds, as they can pop it right when they are in danger.
Not to mention that you can change 1 trait from shadows , as you dont need to blind when u get into stealth.

Even so , just the quaggans are playing DP in WvW, so give them a balloon.

From the wiki:

Blinded: character’s next attack will have 100% chance to miss. Blindness is removed after the condition’s time runs out, or after an outgoing attack that would have been successful if not for the blind. Characters will have a dark purple cloud over a white cross mark covering their heads. The affected characters screen will also dim.

Most people think that if you have blind, you are blind for the complete duration no matter what. This is technically false. You are only blind until your first attack misses. If you stand IN the smoke field you will get re-blinded when the field pulses again. Also, a thief standing in a smoke field can still be hit 100% of the time by ranged attacks.

Let’s see:
→ In most cases thief needs a few hits to be downed
→ In PvP it can be easily avoided by using range (why not some skills that make range a little more must-have?!) and by other methods as well

So no, not op by a long shoot. It’s a good skill – espcially for PVE bc that’s where it shines and that’s where the thiefs need some more buffing (survivability).

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

u show me a thief doing 10 mobs same time….. without using a corner to group them. ill show u a guard doing the same ones easy and so much faster. itll be embarassing.

… no scope, 180 degrees, upside-side down, Final Destination.

Nope. You show us a video of you failing to kill 10 mobs at once with Thief, and we can pick apart the various mistakes you make in the process, repeating until you’re able to succeed. It’ll be both fun and educational for everyone involved.

Funnily enough, I have actually done this vs. Dredge in the lower-level Fractals to carry a bad group of PUGs. Blinds would have been no good (obviously), so SoM-tanking with backflips and Stability saved the day.

u claimed thief was easier. its on you.

Travlane.5948:

u claimed thief was easier. its on you.

Nope. The original ridiculous assertion came from you:

Travlane.5948:

well tell me this. is there ANY other way you can go melee without dodging every second to stay alive? mm?

guardian can sit there in PVE and take on 7-8 enemys with just auto attack alone and neverhave to hit a heal button. thief can only do that with 1 enemy at a time.

are you SUUUUUUUUUUURE black powder shot is OP? really?!

Whether it’s ridiculous because of the restrictions instituted or the assumptions made, is an exercise for the reader, but you threw the grenade.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

u claimed thief was easier. its on you.

Nope. The original ridiculous assertion came from you:

Travlane.5948:

well tell me this. is there ANY other way you can go melee without dodging every second to stay alive? mm?

guardian can sit there in PVE and take on 7-8 enemys with just auto attack alone and neverhave to hit a heal button. thief can only do that with 1 enemy at a time.

are you SUUUUUUUUUUURE black powder shot is OP? really?!

Whether it’s ridiculous because of the restrictions instituted or the assumptions made, is an exercise for the reader, but you threw the grenade.

me: guardian does it with ease compare to thief.

you: no way dude!

me: if u dont think so video it and ill make one on guardian showing you how slow you are.

You: you first.

soyou counter my challenge with the same challenge? lol yyyyyyyyyyyah. well played. so since i asked first bc u claimed it was redic. u have to prove it. especially when my claim is pretty well known.

Travlane.5948:

especially when my claim is pretty well known.

Argumentum ad populum. Epic.

This place would be a lot more boring if it weren’t for the fallacies, the playground insults, and the challenges to duels. Only on the Internet.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

especially when my claim is pretty well known.

Argumentum ad populum. Epic.

This place would be a lot more boring if it weren’t for the fallacies, the playground insults, and the challenges to duels. Only on the Internet.

Is there a fallacy for someone claiming that because something falls under the potential realm of fallacy that the person claiming fallacy in fact falls under a fallacy themselves?

Added
If not it should be called the fallacy of fallacies

Shockwave.1230:

Is there a fallacy for someone claiming that because something falls under the potential realm of fallacy that the person claiming fallacy in fact falls under a fallacy themselves?

Added
If not it should be called the fallacy of fallacies

It would only be a fallacy if it was an argument. And I’d call it either the Pee Wee Herman Fallacy, or the Rule of He Who Smelt It.

He made the original post then never commented again. This is trolling people. Everyone knows you can hit a thief standing in BP by standing on the edge and fast attacks like pistol whip mostly ignore it anyways since it only pulses about once per second.

Just let this trollpost die off.

Shockwave.1230:

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

especially when my claim is pretty well known.

Argumentum ad populum. Epic.

This place would be a lot more boring if it weren’t for the fallacies, the playground insults, and the challenges to duels. Only on the Internet.

Is there a fallacy for someone claiming that because something falls under the potential realm of fallacy that the person claiming fallacy in fact falls under a fallacy themselves?

Added
If not it should be called the fallacy of fallacies

Yup, the fallacy fallacy. +1