To:
Black Powder make “Revealed debuf” when he is used in stealth => no more perma stealth with d/p weapon set. This change make Thief wisible on 1+sec.
In this time Thief use BP+HS→BP+HS etc.
After change Thief use BP+HS now he must wait before it expires stealth duration → now Thief is visible 1sec+ → BP+HS.
Why?
Even if perma-stealth is feasible, it’s only if you heavily trait around the concept and use specific utilities as well.
Plus, I don’t see why perma-stealthing is actually useful in any way.
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
you will most likely hurt him more then he can hurt you. … but no.. “perma stealth” rant just because it’s easyer than actualy using your brain
you cant perma stealth anymore with 15 in SA..since december 10th without using all stealth utilities..and even then you have about 90% uptime on stealth…and you literaly can’t do anything else cause you have so save initaitive for next combo field blast or leaps. stop being ignorant
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
you will most likely hurt him more then he can hurt you. … but no.. “perma stealth” rant just because it’s easyer than actualy using your brain
you cant perma stealth anymore with 15 in SA..since december 10th without using all stealth utilities..and even then you have about 90% uptime on stealth…and you literaly can’t do anything else cause you have so save initaitive for next combo field blast or leaps. stop being ignorant
You’re right. You also need 15 in trickery. 15 SA, 15 Trickery.
just 4 HS into BP and you can easily maintain permastealth.
BP and 4 HS costs:
3*4 + 6 =18 Ini – 2 for Infusion of Shadow = 16 Ini.
Stealth for 4s*4=16s.
You’re right. You also need 15 in trickery. 15 SA, 15 Trickery.
just 4 HS into BP and you can easily maintain permastealth.
BP and 4 HS costs 18 Ini – 2 for Infusion of Shadow = 16 Ini.
Stealth for 4s*4=16s.
Current ini regen is 1 ini/1s[/quote]
and all you are doing is jumping in black powder to gain stealth and THAT’S IT and still not permanent, well telegrafed (like i said AOE the black powder) problem solved
and all you are doing is jumping in black powder to gain stealth and THAT’S IT and still not permanent, well telegrafed (like i said AOE the black powder) problem solved
stealth does not equal invulnerability
No one said it does. Stop trying to change the topic.
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
A thief is in black powder for around 1 second before using Heartseeker. 1 second isn’t enough time for any AoE to appear. Even thinking it’s a counter is laughable.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
A thief is in black powder for around 1 second before using Heartseeker. 1 second isn’t enough time for any AoE to appear. Even thinking it’s a counter is laughable.
you can see the black powder …aoe it simple as that
I love when I see this people who can’t use their brains while playing a game. Playing to much Warrior no?
Okay do it so, but make a trait to leave Aegis when I stealth, since I can’t be stealth to avoid some its make me have some defence at least since squishier than me just an Ele. Oh no wait that would make us OP and then we wouldn’t have stealth at all.
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
A thief is in black powder for around 1 second before using Heartseeker. 1 second isn’t enough time for any AoE to appear. Even thinking it’s a counter is laughable.
you can see the black powder …aoe it simple as that
It takes at least 1 second for any AoE to go off in this game. The BP -> HS effectively beats out the AoE, and not every class has an instant move that can daze or hit the thief in time to stop the stealth. Again, thinking AoEs are a counter to BP → HS stealth is laughable.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
it’s not useless. it let’s us disengage or reposition. give us another way to survive condi spam or high burst. we can’t even have evade anymore or some stunbreaks in weapon sets. outside shadow arts our condi clears rely on high cd utilities.
shadow step cures conditions but is also a stun breaker wich we are forced to choose carefuly – i wanna clear this condition or wait for the incoming CC – looking at you hambow warrs, hamer guards
we have signet of agility that cures just one condition every thirty seconds ( a necro will laugh so hard to this)
number 2 skill on sword is not so reliable anymore with that cast time, since is almost always interupted and again, cures one condition
if i want some bleed removal i need to invest 20 points in vitality trait line (wich sacrifices alot of other defensive and offensive traits from onther traitlines)
If we could have a more reliable tool to survive i may consider reworking black powder
but still..since thief is an stealth base class i still don’t see a problem with “perma stealth” since you can’t actualy kill anyone with it
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
you will most likely hurt him more then he can hurt you. … but no.. “perma stealth” rant just because it’s easyer than actualy using your brain
you cant perma stealth anymore with 15 in SA..since december 10th without using all stealth utilities..and even then you have about 90% uptime on stealth…and you literaly can’t do anything else cause you have so save initaitive for next combo field blast or leaps. stop being ignorant
You’re right. You also need 15 in trickery. 15 SA, 15 Trickery.
just 4 HS into BP and you can easily maintain permastealth.
BP and 4 HS costs:
3*4 + 6 =18 Ini – 2 for Infusion of Shadow = 16 Ini.
Stealth for 4s*4=16s.
Current ini regen is 1 ini/1s
Initiative cost and Initiative regen match up.
Therefore, you can permasteath.
SA 15 don’t affect stealth that comes from combos. So Hs through smoke field = 3s.
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
A thief is in black powder for around 1 second before using Heartseeker. 1 second isn’t enough time for any AoE to appear. Even thinking it’s a counter is laughable.
A Knockback like the mesmer’s greatsword, or an interrupt mid-heartseeker are viable options, though. Another counter is to put as much distance between the thief and yourself the moment he stealths. If he’s stupid he’ll waste his initiative to catch up to you. If he’s smart he’ll disengage entirely since he can’t catch you before stealth ends, giving you a second wind. A third and final counter is to bring channeled bursts like the ranger’s infamous longbow Rapid Fire, or rifle warrior’s Killshot/Volley, as well as mesmer greatsword AA. If you’ve been playing your class for more than 500 hours you should have some logical counter to a thief. Personally, I shotgun cluster bomb at my feet or put distance between myself and the thief depending on my utilities’ cooldowns. Both are effective measures, especially when I swap to shortbow and troll to make the thief lose his edge and want to kill me more than survive.
The true key to beating a thief, especially D/P, is knowing how to control the fight. Manipulating your opponent is the best strength a D/P thief has, more than other thieves, and when you take that control away he’s lost the fight.
If you’ve been playing your class for more than 500 hours you should have some logical counter to a thief. Personally, I shotgun cluster bomb at my feet or put distance between myself and the thief depending on my utilities’ cooldowns. Both are effective measures, especially when I swap to shortbow and troll to make the thief lose his edge and want to kill me more than survive.
The true key to beating a thief, especially D/P, is knowing how to control the fight. Manipulating your opponent is the best strength a D/P thief has, more than other thieves, and when you take that control away he’s lost the fight.
I usually just switch to P/P when I see it’s a D/P thief, and immediately start using Unload the second he drops a BP. The D/P thieves I beat are usually stupid enough to go without any points in Shadow Arts, so a single Unload can make them back off or down them easily.
However if I’m fighting one smart enough to have points in Shadow Arts, I usually just Shadow Refuge and leave, since in the time it takes to fight him I could already be across the map helping scout out enemy groups. But I rarely roam nowadays since I tend to stick with small groups, so when I see one I’ll just spam Headshot when he tries to Black Powder just to deny him stealth long enough for everybody else to kill him or make him run.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
same topic over on profesion balance. i’m kinda glad thievs STILL get so much hate. it means we still matter ( to some degree)
What ? Me main is Thief and yes d/p restealth over and over in 95% of cases is realy broken. Me change make Thief visible on 1+sec but no fix this issue
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.
He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.
why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?
A thief is in black powder for around 1 second before using Heartseeker. 1 second isn’t enough time for any AoE to appear. Even thinking it’s a counter is laughable.
most of the time i play engineer in spvp lately. i see BPS and 90%+ time i get him stuck or out of Black powder shot. then i laugh and say “silly thieves….hope anet buffs that weak class soon”
i always pick the team with less thieves. THAT team wins 90% of the time or more.
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.
He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.
Just reread the first post, noticed what he was referring to. I had to triple check it, because the way it was worded (no offense TC) was bad. My head heard trying to uncover what he wrote, like I was reading my 4 year old cousin’s sentences. But yeah, AoE the Black Powder if that’s what he’s doing.
Still foolish IMO since you could easily just use Shadow Refuge to start the stealth, Blinding Powder when the Refuge’s AoE ends, drop a Smokescreen and HS through that thus saving Initiative, Steal if you have Hidden Thief (and no Mug), and then save the BP -> HS spam for last. If he has the decrease in deception skills cooldown trait, his out of stealth time should be as minimal as the revealed timer. Whoever the thieves he’s been seeing are inefficient if they’re just trying to stealth troll in keeps/towers.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.
He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.
Just reread the first post, noticed what he was referring to. I had to triple check it, because the way it was worded (no offense TC) was bad. My head heard trying to uncover what he wrote, like I was reading my 4 year old cousin’s sentences. But yeah, AoE the Black Powder if that’s what he’s doing.
Still foolish IMO since you could easily just use Shadow Refuge to start the stealth, Blinding Powder when the Refuge’s AoE ends, drop a Smokescreen and HS through that thus saving Initiative, Steal if you have Hidden Thief (and no Mug), and then save the BP -> HS spam for last. If he has the decrease in deception skills cooldown trait, his out of stealth time should be as minimal as the revealed timer. Whoever the thieves he’s been seeing are inefficient if they’re just trying to stealth troll in keeps/towers.
Enemies can still see the Black Powder if you use it while stealthed, so using Shadow Refuge first doesn’t change anything.
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.
He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.
Just reread the first post, noticed what he was referring to. I had to triple check it, because the way it was worded (no offense TC) was bad. My head heard trying to uncover what he wrote, like I was reading my 4 year old cousin’s sentences. But yeah, AoE the Black Powder if that’s what he’s doing.
Still foolish IMO since you could easily just use Shadow Refuge to start the stealth, Blinding Powder when the Refuge’s AoE ends, drop a Smokescreen and HS through that thus saving Initiative, Steal if you have Hidden Thief (and no Mug), and then save the BP -> HS spam for last. If he has the decrease in deception skills cooldown trait, his out of stealth time should be as minimal as the revealed timer. Whoever the thieves he’s been seeing are inefficient if they’re just trying to stealth troll in keeps/towers.
Enemies can still see the Black Powder if you use it while stealthed, so using Shadow Refuge first doesn’t change anything.
It gives you a large head start. You go to stealth, you run a bit away, then you start all the stealth spamming. They’ll be spending a while trying to find you.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I propose another change, bump the initiative cost of headshot to 9. Its unfair, can’t be countered, nerf it. Now we can all use d/d and spam #3 and say we perma evade till they nerf that and then’ll Ill just use hylek blowgun for the remainder of my days.
Jokes aside, what are we doing here? Reveal on bps?….
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
Let me tell you the solutions to all your Problems:
Placing yourself inside the Blackpowder field.
→ The thief will attack you with his heartseeker
→ Thief becomes revealed
you dont seem to understand that the thief must be close to the black powder to gain stealth. so you know where he is even if you can’t see him wich means you know where to throw your aoe. i can’t make it clearer than this. you can still kill him even in stealth.
Wait, you mean there are thieves foolish enough to stay near a single black powder? You must be fighting some seriously stupid thieves then.
He’s saying that, to gain long stealth with D/P, you have to HS into the Black Powder multiple times. Therefore, if you use your AoE on the Black Powder, he will most likely get hit by it while trying to stealth.
Just reread the first post, noticed what he was referring to. I had to triple check it, because the way it was worded (no offense TC) was bad. My head heard trying to uncover what he wrote, like I was reading my 4 year old cousin’s sentences. But yeah, AoE the Black Powder if that’s what he’s doing.
Still foolish IMO since you could easily just use Shadow Refuge to start the stealth, Blinding Powder when the Refuge’s AoE ends, drop a Smokescreen and HS through that thus saving Initiative, Steal if you have Hidden Thief (and no Mug), and then save the BP -> HS spam for last. If he has the decrease in deception skills cooldown trait, his out of stealth time should be as minimal as the revealed timer. Whoever the thieves he’s been seeing are inefficient if they’re just trying to stealth troll in keeps/towers.
Enemies can still see the Black Powder if you use it while stealthed, so using Shadow Refuge first doesn’t change anything.
It gives you a large head start. You go to stealth, you run a bit away, then you start all the stealth spamming. They’ll be spending a while trying to find you.
If you’re gonna do the stealth spamming away from the enemies, there’s no point anyway.
Let me tell you the solutions to all your Problems:
Placing yourself inside the Blackpowder field.
-> The thief will attack you with his heartseeker
-> Thief becomes revealed
Let me tell you why this is not a solution.
-Placing yourself inside the Blackpower field
-You get blind
-The thief will attack you with his HS
-The thief becomes revealed
-The thief will start AA
-You try to counter but you’re blind so you have to waste AA to clear blinds
-You cast BV to try to burst him
-3 secs between repositioning and casting BV
-Thief BP and stealth again
Standing in the BP is good vs noob D/P thieves, not so good vs decent/good D/P thieves.
