Guild Wars 2

What do your bleeds tick for with no buffs/food and how much condition damage do you have in your suit? I’m at about 807 and it’s at 81/tick. Seems like the diminishing returns after 300 condition damage are pretty bad.

got 0 condition dmg and bleeds tick for 41 xP

With the right conditions I get mine up to about 130 a tick, normally around 110.

You get 5% of your condition dmg added to each tick on top of the base of ~42.5/tick (at 80). So with 807 you should get ~82/tick which is pretty much what you are seeing. Not sure how it handles rounding.

Because of this, Bleed duration > con dmg.

Each stack of Might also adds ~1.75 dmg/tick to bleeds.

Thanks a bunch Stiv. Can you go beyond 100% duration?

I’ve never personally tested but from what I understand 100% duration is the a hard cap.

95, w/1050 cond damage. The formula mentioned is correct:

42.5 + (0.05 * 1050) = 95.

Bleed Duration is not better or worse then condition damage. Let look at the math behind it. Using One Stack of 10 sec bleed ( from Death Blossom)

1 Stack 0 Con Dam 0 Duration

42.5 X 10 Sec = 425 damage

1 Stack 56 Con Damage 40% Duration (Basically from 2 rune sets)

45.3 × 14 sec = 643.2 damage

1 Stack 923 Con Damage 0 Duration ( From Carrior Amulet + Carrior Jewel)

88.65 X 10 sec = 886.5 damage

1 Stack 979 Con Damage 40% Duration ( Carrion + Runes)

91.3 × 14 sec = 1278.2 damage

As you can see both have their advantages. The above is without traiting into Bleed or condition damage…

But also remember duration rounds down… so when you calculate the increase remember if you can’t get to the next whole number… then don’t stack it

for Example Pistol bleed is 4s … The Runes are 15% 15% and 10%…
Stacking the 15%+15% is a 30% increase but on 4 sec that is 1.2 sec increase or 1 sec
Stacking 15% + 15% + 10% is 40% increase but on 4 sec that is 1.6 increase or still 1 sec
Stacking 15% + 10% is 25% increase but on 4 sec that is 1 sec…

So using Pistols/Shortbow… with 4 sec bleeds stack in increments of 25%
Using Dagger death blossom … stack in increments of 10%

Do passive abilities like Exposed Weakness boost tick damage?

I look at it like this.

100% duration with no +con dmg = 170 more dmg over the course of 8 seconds or 21.25 dps per stack.

But this now scales with your +con dmg.

Assuming you aren’t hitting the 25 stack cap and not chooseing just one or the other (duration vs con dmg) I can’t figure out the math where you wouldn’t want to prioritize 100% duration first.

edit: it’s hard to give specific examples without knowing exactly how much + con dmg you give up using the runes/sigils/traits/food to get you to 100%.

If I’m understanding it correctly, you would need 425 (21.25*20) con dmg to be = dps to 100% duration if you just compare them directly. I doubt you can get that much from runes/sigils/traits. Add the scaling +con dmg gets after 100% duration and it’s just way better.

I agree with Stiv, generally bleed duration > condition damage. You’ll never get enough +condition damage to make up for what you gained in one more bleed tick (there could be a whole separate discussion on how to optimally gear and spec).

One thing I wanted to add related to Emerge’s question on Exposed Weakness.

A while ago I traited Exposed Weakness (10% damage when conditions are applied) but was looking into switching to Quick Recovery (2 init/10 secs). I saw that Slic wasn’t using QR in his Wild Bill video’s, I was surprised how well I did without it, but you have to play very clean, QR gives you room to recover from mistakes and overextends.

I did some testing in the Mists and observed no change in tick damage with EW, so it appears that it does not apply to condition damage. Because of that, I switched to QR.

It seems wrong for EW to not apply to conditions, maybe others here have seen different results?

As far as I can tell only + condition dmg adds to bleed ticks. Nothing else. The only reason Might adds to dmg/tick is the buff itself adds + power and + condition dmg. So no percent buffs or vulnerability type things (+20% when <50% health for instance) will up your ticks.

Aeden.5896:

I agree with Stiv, generally bleed duration > condition damage. You’ll never get enough +condition damage to make up for what you gained in one more bleed tick (there could be a whole separate discussion on how to optimally gear and spec).

One thing I wanted to add related to Emerge’s question on Exposed Weakness.

A while ago I traited Exposed Weakness (10% damage when conditions are applied) but was looking into switching to Quick Recovery (2 init/10 secs). I saw that Slic wasn’t using QR in his Wild Bill video’s, I was surprised how well I did without it, but you have to play very clean, QR gives you room to recover from mistakes and overextends.

I did some testing in the Mists and observed no change in tick damage with EW, so it appears that it does not apply to condition damage. Because of that, I switched to QR.

It seems wrong for EW to not apply to conditions, maybe others here have seen different results?

On a 10 sec bleed every 10% of Condition duration is equivalent to 85 points of Condition Damage….

X= Con Damage * 0.05

42.5 * 11 = (42.5 + X) *10
467.5 = 425 × 10X
42.5 = 10x
4.25 = Con Damage * 0.05
85 = Con Damage

For a 4 sec Bleed it is still 85 Condition Damage but it is 25% Duration because damage only ticks on whole seconds rounded down.

85 Con Damage = 10% duration for Daggers
85 Con Damage = 25% duration for Pistols/Shortbow

So explain to me how condition damage can not equal or exceed duration?

Condition Duration suxx for PvP.
You might wanna stack condition damage and might for PvP,because ppl tend to clear condition.

Also consider that there is a max 25 stacks of bleed on a target, so if you have more than one person with bleed duration increases, you can reach max stacks faster. In that case, condition damage would be superior as you don’t max out stacks and you’ll ramp damage faster.

Also my question why are people saying don’t stack condition damage over duration…. The only time Duration and con Damage are competing with one and another is when traiting…

300 Con damage vs 30% Duration

10s Bleed: 575 (Damage) vs 552.5 (Duration)
4s Bleed: 230 (Damage) vs 212.5 (Duration)

Bottom Line if you are going to run a condition build:

1. Stack Condition damage on your gear
2. Rune/Sigil for Duration
3. Trait depending on your goal known that the difference between 30 DA and 30 Trick is minor

All the above just applies to bleeds…

Poison on the other hand has a better ratio from Con Damage (0.1 vs 0.05) and only stacks in duration

Yea the direct comparison stuff doesn’t really work since they don’t compete all that much for gear “slotting” and the two combined blow one or the other away.

All I’m saying is based on what is available for gear, don’t just tunnel-vision +con dmg. Use whatever you need to + food to get to 100% duration first then figure out how to max the +con dmg if that’s what you want.

The bleed clearing is a good point but we stack them so fast for Vital especially. Also with all the positioning and sometimes staying in stealth for close to it’s full duration the 100% is almost always helping.

Duration is only for fighting vets/champs in PvE.
For everything else it’s pretty much useless because bleeds never ever tick the full duration because mobs die too fast or your bleeds get removed in PvP.

Highest I’ve seen so far is 146 per tick and that was with a 15 stack of might (might affects bleeds more than most would expect).

in pvp (wvw) the highest i had ticking were 130, 10 stack of might and a 25 stack of coruption sigil…

What fractal is also saying is just make sure you are clear on your %duration, if you want to stack duration make it in 25/50/75/100 but not at the cost of +con.

1 dmg over 100 ticks is 100 dmg
100 dmg over 1 tick is 100 dmg

but here is some fun for you, find the medium.

50 dmg over 50 ticks is 2500 dmg

fractal.7039:

Aeden.5896:

I agree with Stiv, generally bleed duration > condition damage. …

On a 10 sec bleed every 10% of Condition duration is equivalent to 85 points of Condition Damage….
…So explain to me how condition damage can not equal or exceed duration?

Sorry, to be clear, I was talking about the condition damage attribute, not the % condition damage trait bonus. In isolation, 1% condition damage is more desirable than 1% condition duration, yes.

I was coming from sacrificing runes or sigil bonuses for bleed duration increases, which is almost always a significant damage increase (to cap).

Bleed duration increases aren’t that bad in PvP for P/D thieves. Bleeds are already so short, applied so often and clearing conditions so infrequent, condition removal isn’t as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.