Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen several people make this claim. Is it confirmed?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/P-D-sPvP-build-need-suggestions/first#post2371210

See Bruno’s comment

i.e. if I steal and apply poison and then LDB and they cleanse one condition it will be the bleed.

If I do the opposite will it be the bleed?

I’ve searched and other people claim the rightmost or last applied condition is cleansed first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/priority-for-condition-cleanse

It doesn’t seem to me that this rule of thumb is correct, so why do people say it all the time?

It is generally correct. Certain conditions/boons take priority when being cleansed/stripped.

I don’t know the exact order (or if it depends on the number of stacks), but bleeding has a rather high priority.

I thought it’s just the last applied condition gets removed first.

well i was going by personal experience (stealthing would always cleanse the bleeds, even if i had burns, poison, torment, etc), and as well as “everyone else says it is, so it’s probably true”. i’ll admit i have no basis other than anecdotal evidence for that.

it makes sense though, it IS the condition a player would be the most desperate to get rid of, since it deals the most damage (with enough stacks).

“It is generally correct. Certain conditions/boons take priority when being cleansed/stripped.
I don’t know the exact order (or if it depends on the number of stacks), but bleeding has a rather high priority.”

Where is this stated? I am nto doubting you but is there anything official on it?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

From the wiki :

“Conditions can be removed by condition removal. For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal.
"

So which is right? What do they mean by Generic?

wiki is usually right.

The wiki can screw up on complicated details. In personal testing, I’ve found condition cleanses to not have a strict order, at least not based on order of application or type. Take a single-condition cleanse (thief is not so good for this I used a necro with a trait to cleanse one trait on entering Death Shroud, you could try the remove-on-stealth trait) and play with spiders outside Lion’s Arch for a while. (They apply long durations of cripple / poison, without being dangerous in the slightest.)

Its based on the last condition applied.
Generally Bleed is cleansed first because most condition builds for instance have bleed on an auto attack like vital shot, which means that bleed is frequently the last condition applied.

animalmom.1062:

the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.

This is wrong

Heres how I know:
I went to sPVP on my guardian with a friend and did the following. I set the trait “shouts convert 1 condition to a boon” thus making all my shouts remove 1 condition. I then had my thief friend do the following > shoot me once with a pistol (bleed) then CnD me (vulnerabilityx3) then swap to a short bow and drop a poison field on me (poison), then I moved out of the poison field and hit a shout. Bleed was removed, even though 2 other conditions with much longer durations/higher stacks were applied after it.

wish.1027:

animalmom.1062:

the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.

This is wrong

Heres how I know:
I went to sPVP on my guardian with a friend and did the following. I set the trait “shouts convert 1 condition to a boon” thus making all my shouts remove 1 condition. I then had my thief friend do the following > shoot me once with a pistol (bleed) then CnD me (vulnerabilityx3) then swap to a short bow and drop a poison field on me (poison), then I moved out of the poison field and hit a shout. Bleed was removed, even though 2 other conditions with much longer durations/higher stacks were applied after it.

the wiki is a lie

Condis are cleared by what was last applied. Whatever condi is the most recent is cleared first. Anet stated this in one of the sotg.

Softspoken.2410:

Take a single-condition cleanse (thief is not so good for this

Signet of Agility comes to mind. Sword #2 too.

BrunoBRS.5178:

well i was going by personal experience (stealthing would always cleanse the bleeds, even if i had burns, poison, torment, etc),

Bleed is applied much more frequently so it would it has a better chance of being the last condition applied.

wish.1027:

animalmom.1062:

the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.

This is wrong

Heres how I know:
I went to sPVP on my guardian with a friend and did the following. I set the trait “shouts convert 1 condition to a boon” thus making all my shouts remove 1 condition. I then had my thief friend do the following > shoot me once with a pistol (bleed) then CnD me (vulnerabilityx3) then swap to a short bow and drop a poison field on me (poison), then I moved out of the poison field and hit a shout. Bleed was removed, even though 2 other conditions with much longer durations/higher stacks were applied after it.

That seems pretty conclusive to me. I’ve had similar, albeit less stringently tested, results with my warrior’s warhorn and Quick Breathing. However, that too is a condition-to-boon cleanse. It’s possible, however unlikely, that those use a different priority system. But I’m not going to hold my breath on that.

Wish’s test seems somewhat conclusive. What a blow to condi thieves. Bug or working as intended?

Last condition applied is always the first condition to be removal first

This behavior follows the LIFO philosophy. Bleeds tend to be the first condition cleansed because it is applied so frequently

loseridoit.2756:

Last condition applied is always the first condition to be removal first

This behavior follows the LIFO philosophy. Bleeds tend to be the first condition cleansed because it is applied so frequently

Except I can regularly observe older conditions being removed and newer ones being ignored.

Edit: if anyone is reading this thread right now and is interesting in investigating, please message me in-game. I’d like to get into a PvP arena and test this thoroughly and I’d rather do it with someone I can talk to instead of open-world mobs.

Softspoken.2410:

loseridoit.2756:

Last condition applied is always the first condition to be removal first

This behavior follows the LIFO philosophy. Bleeds tend to be the first condition cleansed because it is applied so frequently

Except I can regularly observe older conditions being removed and newer ones being ignored.

Edit: if anyone is reading this thread right now and is interesting in investigating, please message me in-game. I’d like to get into a PvP arena and test this thoroughly and I’d rather do it with someone I can talk to instead of open-world mobs.

tested with a traited warrior warhorn and softspoken is right. bleeds seems to take higher priority

sigh… if this bug is fixed, then necros will completely be op

loseridoit.2756:

Softspoken.2410:

loseridoit.2756:

Last condition applied is always the first condition to be removal first

This behavior follows the LIFO philosophy. Bleeds tend to be the first condition cleansed because it is applied so frequently

Except I can regularly observe older conditions being removed and newer ones being ignored.

Edit: if anyone is reading this thread right now and is interesting in investigating, please message me in-game. I’d like to get into a PvP arena and test this thoroughly and I’d rather do it with someone I can talk to instead of open-world mobs.

tested with a traited warrior warhorn and softspoken is right. bleeds seems to take higher priority

sigh… if this bug is fixed, then necros will completely be op

For the record, this was a condition conversion instead of a cleanse, so it may still be suspect. But the trait / skill was converting the bleed regardless of application order, before it would convert poison or torment. At the very least, LIFO is not a hard-and fast rule for all condition removal.

I think in the future… Something like a thief a with shortbow, spider venom, ice drake venom and cluster bomb will be in order. I’ll be the target as a mantra mesmer with this trait on Mantra of Recovery.

But I’m a bit too tired to keep going at that tonight.

loseridoit.2756:

Last condition applied is always the first condition to be removal first

This behavior follows the LIFO philosophy. Bleeds tend to be the first condition cleansed because it is applied so frequently

wish.1027:

animalmom.1062:

the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.

This is wrong

Heres how I know:
I went to sPVP on my guardian with a friend and did the following. I set the trait “shouts convert 1 condition to a boon” thus making all my shouts remove 1 condition. I then had my thief friend do the following > shoot me once with a pistol (bleed) then CnD me (vulnerabilityx3) then swap to a short bow and drop a poison field on me (poison), then I moved out of the poison field and hit a shout. Bleed was removed, even though 2 other conditions with much longer durations/higher stacks were applied after it.

@wish – acknowledged your point above.

@softspoken – I’d be keen to help you test but I am at work for ten more hours. Very curious as to the restults.

If we stipulate we will find that bleed has a higher cleanse order do we think this is a bug or a feature?

It certainly is bad for thieves. You can actually dump lots of cover conditions if you really try as a thief – vuln, poison, weakness, cripple etc.

animalmom.1062:

It certainly is bad for thieves. You can actually dump lots of cover conditions if you really try as a thief – vuln, poison, weakness, cripple etc.

Not really. Most of the time, putting up cover conditions comes from your initiative, which means it’s directly taking a bite out from your ability to apply bleeds to your enemies.

Condition conversion into boon isn’t the same as condition removal. You’ll have to redo the tests.

stof.9341:

Condition conversion into boon isn’t the same as condition removal. You’ll have to redo the tests.

I agree, and will do so when I find time for it, which will not be today. In the meantime, others that are curious could try and play around with it. I recommend using long duration / low intensity conditions that are applied in bursts, so it’s clear exactly what condition is applied in what order, and there’s plenty of time to react.

stof.9341:

Condition conversion into boon isn’t the same as condition removal. You’ll have to redo the tests.

Warrior’s warhorn isn’t a conversion to buff – its a straight single cleanse.

Nike.2631:

stof.9341:

Condition conversion into boon isn’t the same as condition removal. You’ll have to redo the tests.

Warrior’s warhorn isn’t a conversion to buff – its a straight single cleanse.

Oh yeah?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

Warhorn skills recharge 20% faster. Warhorn skills convert 1 condition into a boon.

My bad. Evidently I rarely found the converted boon all that useful.

Nike.2631:

My bad. Evidently I rarely found the converted boon all that useful.

its more useful than you think

you can cherry pick your condition conversion which means perma vigor or aegis

you will be surprise how strong removing 2 condition every 15 second is

I play a full condition thief and can say that it’s entirely random. I typically deal 45,000 damage in bleeds during a single fight lasting 20 seconds, and I make sure to create as much of what I call “condition dissonance”, which basically makes it harder for the cleansing algorithm to choose bleeding over poison, weakness, cripple, blind and anything that I get from a combo field (the chaos armor from the engineer’s sticky combo field steal is great for this). I can’t say this for sure though, because often I’m applying bleeds so quickly that I maintain 20 stacks on my target with ease, but I have found that creating this dissonance makes a difference at the very least against builds with multiple sources of condition removal.

Softspoken.2410:

Except I can regularly observe older conditions being removed and newer ones being ignored.

You should test it better.
Guild Wars 1 worked with LIFO mechanic in both hexes, enchantments and conditions; I see no reason for ArenaNet, both balance-wise and logic-wise, to introduce some sort of priorities in condition cleansing.