Guild Wars 2

I like two out of the five bow skills. Two could stand improvement, and one I think needs to go and be replaced with something else.

My issues are with skills 2, 4 and 5.

2 and 4: my problem with these has to do with the ground targeting. For me, when I use the bow it’s because I want frenzied action, but at a distance. Game play is much more interactive than, say Necro with staff. I dodge and move around a lot more. Having to target the GAOEs takes me out of the action.

I understand the value of a GAOE, but there doesn’t seem to be much purpose with the bow. The toxic cloud #4, for example, doesn’t linger long enough to be a trap or a deterrent, and the #2 explosion just goes boom upon impact. There isn’t much purpose to the aiming.

So here’s my suggestion for #2 and #4: upgrade these to be a contextual mix of tab targeting and GAOE.

If I have an enemy targeted, then hitting 2 or 4 should launch the attack immediately, no ground targeting. The effects should be the same as they are now, just centered on the target.

If no target is selected, then hitting 2 or 4 should bring up the ground targeting. But upon launch, these attacks should land as traps, and linger for about as long as necro staff GAOEs.

Best of both worlds. You can play fast and furious, or be more strategic and lay down some more traps.

Skill #5: just replace. I don’t get this. The range isn’t enough to actually get me anywhere interesting. As an escape mechanism it sucks because if I’m running for my life the last thing I’m going to do is center the GAOE correctly. As an attack it does nothing but add a blind (though I haven’t even noticed it’s gone so fast); if I want to close on an enemy I have much better ways to do so with other weapon combos. There are only five bow skills available, this one wastes a slot. I’d like to see it gone and replaced with something worthwhile, like a charge up power attack.

:)

The issues with 2 and 4 look like universal issues with ground targeting in general across all classes, and not with the skills themselves. Seems overkill to overhaul -just- these two skills for this reason. Some of those suggestions could be universal changes to ground targeting, and I’d be fine with that.

As for 5, it can be useful when trying to catch up with a zerg or otherwise move quickly. It might not have the raw distance of Shadowstep or Blink, but the fact that you can use it two or three times in succession makes up for this distance.
It also looks like you’ve never used it to chase down a retreating enemy, which is where it’s particuarly amazing, especially if your weapon swap for some of these other weapon combos is on cool-down. Wanting to completely scrap it because you don’t know how to use it? No. Just… no.

If I want to catch up with someone there are much better ways to do it. Just catching up with someone in WvW is too specialized of a situation to take up such prime real estate in the skill bar.

I mean, you can’t choose which skills to use, so EVERY skill on the bar has to be firing on all cylinders.

Also, not all GAOE sucks. It works perfectly fine as is for Necro staff.

Squeesidhe.4761:

The toxic cloud #4, for example, doesn’t linger long enough to be a trap or a deterrent, and the #2 explosion just goes boom upon impact. There isn’t much purpose to the aiming.

Choking Gas is a deterrent to players trying to rez their allies; having Choking Gas down to reduce healing effectiveness in addition to Cluster Bomb spam helps ensure they’re not getting up and quite possibly another downed enemy.

Squeesidhe.4761:

So here’s my suggestion for #2 and #4: upgrade these to be a contextual mix of tab targeting and GAOE.

If I have an enemy targeted, then hitting 2 or 4 should launch the attack immediately, no ground targeting. The effects should be the same as they are now, just centered on the target.

That sounds like a lazy play-style. Plus, having them as target-based skills subjects them to projectile ducking/strafing.

Squeesidhe.4761:

If no target is selected, then hitting 2 or 4 should bring up the ground targeting. But upon launch, these attacks should land as traps, and linger for about as long as necro staff GAOEs.

So, basically being rewarded for missing?

Squeesidhe.4761:

Skill #5: just replace. I don’t get this. The range isn’t enough to actually get me anywhere interesting. As an escape mechanism it sucks because if I’m running for my life the last thing I’m going to do is center the GAOE correctly.

You’re not using it as effectively as you could be. Think z-axis, not x and y.

I felt the same way about short bow at first. Now it’s my favourite weapon. Every skill is extremely useful if you know how to use it. Here are a few suggestions how to use the skills u don’t like:

2:
- use clusterbomb on a immobilized target (immob using your stealth skill or/and basilisk venom) . Detonate it before it hits the ground. This is a great single target burst that really deals lots of dmg (especially if combined with air and fire sigils).
- use it in team fights on your poison fields for aoe weakness. Very powerful.

4:
- Use it in team fights combined with cluster bomb for aoe weakness
- Use it on downed enemies to reduce revive speed.
- Use it against warriors to weaken their healing signet (vs a warrior u really want to have perma poison on him)

5:
- Insane mobility. This skill is one of the most important skills for a thief in pvp. Used right (teleporting up edges and so on.. there are many tutorial videos for this skill)
- There’s a trick where you can use this skill for a port stomp.

As I said, I really love the sb on thief and used right it is a very good and versatile weapon.

2
- Lots of damage + bleed
- One of the best AoE skills for thieves
- generally good synergy with AA’s bounce

4
- Poison reduces healing by 1/3
- really spammable making short duration justified (otherwise you could just cover everything with it)
- fast projectile speed

5
- God-like and spammable mobility
I cannot contemplate why you would dislike this skill it is the best and most reliable escape skill for thieves.

Also if your taking bow for “frantic” action, wrong weapon. Bow is mostly utility on thieves to make you more durable for those kind of thieves it is their off hand weapon set. If you want to main Bow then you can still do damage but it’s mostly for teamfight support and escaping at that point.

No point in changing what isn’t broken.

Runewolf.8456:

Also if your taking bow for “frantic” action, wrong weapon. Bow is mostly utility on thieves to make you more durable for those kind of thieves it is their off hand weapon set. If you want to main Bow then you can still do damage but it’s mostly for teamfight support and escaping at that point.

Aaah, now I’m seeing the disconnect. See, I use bow in a very active manner, sometimes engaging at very close range, using skill #2 to kite enemies. You know, as opposed to standing on the sidelines and plinking away from safety like a big wuss.

So you all are correct, if you use the bow by methodically lining up your shots with all the care of a little girl arranging her Barbie dolls, then I agree, it works great!

For the rest of us, it would be improved by the suggestions in my OP.

Squeesidhe.4761:

For the rest of us, it would be improved by the suggestions in my OP.

Guys, I think we’ve been blessed enough to meet the emperor of thieves, in that he quite clearly speaks on behalf of himself the entire thief player-base.

My main complaint about cluster bomb is that the projectile is so slow that is almost useless at max range.

Squeesidhe.4761:

Runewolf.8456:

Also if your taking bow for “frantic” action, wrong weapon. Bow is mostly utility on thieves to make you more durable for those kind of thieves it is their off hand weapon set. If you want to main Bow then you can still do damage but it’s mostly for teamfight support and escaping at that point.

See, I use bow in a very active manner, sometimes engaging at very close range, using skill #2 to kite enemies.

So defeating the purpose of a ranged weapon entirely… got it. At that point your better of with a sword or dagger. SB is meant for ranged combat when get up close and personal is not optimal or just plain dumb. But you seem to like using it as a close ranged weapon and that’s fine but me and all the other thieves i know like the bow as a ranged back-up for when a fight gets too heated/AoE filled.

1. is meant to be used with some stategy. If you just shot it at their current location they could move a couple yards and boom it missed. If you are contesting a point in pvp and want to choking gas + cluster bomb (aoe weakness) you can do so on that point which most people will try to avoid. In other words, you can dictate their moves or punish them for soaking it up.

1. is the same, it isn’t meant to be some long lasting meltdown, its a small cast poison field. The only reason for it is to combo for aoe weakness, reduce healing on groups, and proc signet of malice.

1. is almost the core of our sb, giving us high mobility especially on high terrain. I can’t understand why anyone would want that removed without having played thief…

All in all, nty.

If you’re having undue problems with ground targeting then reassign your keys or try different controls. Please don’t try to break the weapon for everyone.

Maliel.8362:

My main complaint about cluster bomb is that the projectile is so slow that is almost useless at max range.

This. It’s annoying that the projectiles are so slow right now.

You don’t seem to use the bow at all for what it’s intended for, I sugget switching to pistols, they may more up your street within the range desired and their abilities are quick fire.

Yes firing is slow on the abilities. For the thief it’s a situational and utility weapon which can also pump out great damage used right.

Honestly Bow is close to being perfect, there are a few minor changes I would like to make it slightly more viable as a primary weapon instead of just a utility weapon.

1. I would increase the speed on #2 by about 50%
2. Since they are adding a damage component to #4 on strike I would make the damage comparable to HS above 50%
3. Either increase #6’s range to 1200, decrease ini cost to 4, or give it a 2 sec blind field like pistol 5. The last is m preferred change since it gives sb access to stealth via cb.

So I wrote my provocative “Alpha Male” response above just to make a point: I made a simple suggestion, only to be met with responses that just assumed it was because I didn’t know how to play the class. That’s pretty obnoxious, about as obnoxious as me calling the rest of you who don’t play MY way a bunch of little girls. My suggestions come FROM playing the class, and commenting on how the gameplay feels.

My point being, my approach to the bow is no less relevant than yours. Read my OP again. The suggestion I made would enable the bow to be equally effective for my play style and yours. Really, except for skill 5 which I still think sucks, my suggestion would offer you MORE flexibility.

If you want to see how “strategy” based GAOE is done, play a necro with staff. It makes sense there. You can lay out your AOEs in a horizontal line to catch multiple enemies. You can lay them vertically between yourself and whatever is trying to reach you. You can layer them on top of a single target for burst damage and conditions.

With thief, you use GAOE to launch projectiles that are going to… explode on target anyway. The mechanics with bow don’t justify the GAOE. A lot of skills in GW2 fit this description, but we’re talking bow here.

And I also maintain that the bow is intended just as much as a fast-paced weapon as it is for a strategic one. Hence skill #3 for kiting. #2, #4 and #5 do not work effectively for fast-paced kiting because you have to pause to aim.

And skill 5 just blows chunks. The range sucks. It’s crap for vertical use because it trips up at every kitten rocky outcrop. It’s bunk for fast escape because again, you have to pause to aim. So it’s really only good for chasing down other players in PVP. Too situational. I’m glad it works for the rest of you posting here, but to me it’s just taking up space on my skill bar that could be used for something better. Or at least add a better secondary effect, like AOE damage or vulnerability or something.

“And I also maintain that the bow is intended just as much as a fast-paced weapon as it is for a strategic one. Hence skill #3 for kiting. #2, #4 and #5 do not work effectively for fast-paced kiting because you have to pause to aim.”

Pistol/dagger is the set for kiting. There’s no point complaining that shortbow is not fit for purpose when there is another weapon set that does fit that purpose already.

Squeesidhe.4761:

*And skill 5 just blows chunks. The range sucks. It’s crap for vertical use because it trips up at every kitten rocky outcrop. It’s bunk for fast escape because again, you have to pause to aim. So it’s really only good for chasing down other players in PVP. Too situational. I’m glad it works for the rest of you posting here, but to me it’s just taking up space on my skill bar that could be used for something better. Or at least add a better secondary effect, like AOE damage or vulnerability or something. *

Sorry man

You don’t play thief

Shortbow is in a pretty good spot. It can use some changes (hello 1200-range attack), but it hardly needs the overhaul your suggesting just because it doesn’t fill the role that you’ve invented for it. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it.

All I want on the bow- Increased projectile speed of #2. The only time I ever use this is point blank cluster bomb to the face. If I’m not point black I never use this skill, and I only really useit for style points, even if full blown condi. Perhaps I’m doing it wrong but its so unreliable if they’re more than 200 units away. rather, save ini for 3,4,5. EDIT: Actually, it is the only blast finisher on our weapon set and it has no CD, so it has its uses outside of point-blank, but some velocity would be nice

Oh and fix the shortbow #5 bugs/teleport bugs in general. I’m not sure if its a latency issue or teleporting issue in GW2, but sometimes I’ll teleport and it will register as 2 #5s resulting in a lot of wasted initiative.

So would it be OP if they increased the #2 velocity by 25-30%? I’m pretty sure its the slowest projectile I’ve seen in GW2

Slightly off topic from the OP, but for those of you saying #2 proj is too slow:
1) I agree. Not saying it should change b/c of possible balance concerns, but I do agree.
2) Try using it as a melee range attack. By quickly tapping l-click right next to you and #2 twice on the KB (or whatever your keybind is), you can VERY quickly pump out detonated clusters for huge spike damage. B/c you’re targeting the ground right next to you, the proj speed issue becomes moot. Very useful for holding/capping. Most of you probably already know this.

I think you are using the shortbow wrong if you are having trouble with it. For PvP it is the best weapon we have! We can easily damage multiple targets and proc sigils, lay down some debuffs with poison field (heal and ress 33% less effective), get from a to b faster than any other profession (reach hard to get areas too) and access to the single best blast finisher in the game.

It is not my main source of damage, but it is priceless as a utility, both solo and in team play.

Whoa! I don’t think anyone is trying to be obnoxious.

The Thief is fast and furious and I never stop moving, even when targeting with bow or using my abilities. If I do then I’m usually dead. Tab/Mix targeting would be quicker for these abilities however they are so slow they’d miss. Which is part of the reason why they are not. I plan ahead when firing 2 and 4 and they were slowed down for a reason.

I do know initially the #2 ability was slowed down as the damage output was deemed over the top when fired repeatedly at the faster speed. In close range still this can knock out high damage quickly however.

As for 5, yes you may not use it, however alot do think it’s fun, and there have been times the ability has saved my skin as well as making the thief very mobile.

Thief/Necros comparisons are difficult as the classes are all different and intended to be played different however I do see that Necros can land ground target attacks and lay out plans for this very quickly.

All the bow attacks are quite slow however I think there’s supposed to be an offset on each as they have multiple uses. For example a rangers Longbow #1 fires faster and longer in range however our #1 bounces. Firing a #2 followed by a #1 will hit at the same time which is kinda funny, but good damage from a sneaky thief that nobody has spotted yet.

OP wants an aggressive DPS weapon. Sadly shortbow is entirely designed around utility the thief lacks elsewhere.

The real issue lies in the lack of an aggressive mobile long-ranged weaponset. P/P is just inferrior to shortbow and doesn’t have any kind of respectable range.

/voteforthieflongbow