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(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
Brawler Style Thief [Build/Video]
I can’t watch the video yet but, does this build get destroyed by conditions? That’s the only reason I have rarely used impacting disruption over escapists absolution
Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]
I can’t watch the video yet but, does this build get destroyed by conditions? That’s the only reason I have rarely used impacting disruption over escapists absolution
It is weak to conditions, but it has 20k health, so if I’m against 2 or more people with at least one of them being a condi build I have time to run.
If you’re going to rely on Rune of the Daredevil for your crit (since the amulet is Soldier’s), you’ll want at least something to supply your endurance bar. I would say at the very least, you’ll want Sig of Agility, which would particularly advantageous since you lack condi cleanse.
This should be an easy substitution for Roll for Initiative since that skill is really just too inferior to alternatives to be worthwhile for much of anything in PvP. If they lower the cd someday, I’ll take that back, but until then, it’s not worth 60 seconds. With your other 2 abilities as stun breaks, there’s not much lost there.
I’d also suggest going Withdraw as your heal. The new DD heal is just too easy to interrupt and you’ll need an immobilize break if you’re not going with Dash for your dodge.
If you’re going to rely on Rune of the Daredevil for your crit (since the amulet is Soldier’s), you’ll want at least something to supply your endurance bar. I would say at the very least, you’ll want Sig of Agility, which would particularly advantageous since you lack condi cleanse.
I swapped out SoA for Bandit’s Defense. I’ll probably end up swapping it back for the reasons you’ve outlined and BD hasn’t helped me enough to really warrant it.
Edit: The majority of my damage output seems to come from dodges and headshot also, so putting SoA back in is probably the better move anyway, however it’s still capable of putting out decent backstabs because of the multiplicative modifiers from Bounding Dodger, Exposed Weakness, Executioner, and Lead Attacks. Non-crit attacks end up having about a 1.6 modifier total (+/- some because of lead attacks).
This should be an easy substitution for Roll for Initiative since that skill is really just too inferior to alternatives to be worthwhile for much of anything in PvP. If they lower the cd someday, I’ll take that back, but until then, it’s not worth 60 seconds. With your other 2 abilities as stun breaks, there’s not much lost there.
I’m using it because of the movement impairing condi cleanse and it gives me the 6 initiative back for BPS to slip back into stealth in an emergency. As I mentioned above, I will probably put SoA back in instead of BD. I agree with you that the CD is too long. It really should be in the 30-40 second range (with possibly less initiative gained).
I’d also suggest going Withdraw as your heal. The new DD heal is just too easy to interrupt and you’ll need an immobilize break if you’re not going with Dash for your dodge.
I actually really like the new heal and it synergizes well with the way this particular build works. The immobilize thing is why I’m going to leave RFI in for now. The heal is pretty easy to cover with stealth.
Edit2: This was also my first game with this particular setup, switching from trying it with S/P. I know there’s lots of room for improvement, but I wanted to help give a basis for some alternate thief builds. Your input is very helpful, thanks!
(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
I agree with maugetarr and his advised changes. Overall i have to say that your build is simply not effective. You deal way less DMG, the drd runes arent helping. Yes you have a bigger lifepool but your heals cant heal enough to restore it so in the end its only a minor cushion in the beginning of the fight. You arent a real brawler with it. I would go in the direction of applying constant weakness to reduce incoming DMG while keeping your DMG output high. I wont show the build im using (its obviously staff) but i think its a more viable brawler drd.
100% Thief
I agree with maugetarr and his advised changes. Overall i have to say that your build is simply not effective. You deal way less DMG, the drd runes arent helping. Yes you have a bigger lifepool but your heals cant heal enough to restore it so in the end its only a minor cushion in the beginning of the fight. You arent a real brawler with it. I would go in the direction of applying constant weakness to reduce incoming DMG while keeping your DMG output high. I wont show the build im using (its obviously staff) but i think its a more viable brawler drd.
I’m going to disagree with you on the damage output. The first attack of the video was nearly a 6k backstab, and interruptions end up being anywhere from 3k-5.5k depending on enemy toughness. Mug+Pulminary impact can hit for a combined 7k damage. Also, the heal on evade should add to the brawler aspect.
I’m going to try staff later to see how it pairs with this, but I don’t have the on demand interrupts with that.
(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
have you tried this w/ p/p at all?
have you tried this w/ p/p at all?
I haven’t yet. I have a lot coming up this week so I haven’t had a lot of time to play, but I had the idea for this rolling around in my head and decided to try it while I was taking a break. That’s partly why it’s just raw gameplay because I don’t have time to really edit a highlight video but I also like including whole games because it’s easy to make a build look good cherry picking single fights.
I run a very similar build. It’s super effective against most classes.
Thief forums are filled with negativity because people can’t spam 2 to win anymore. So don’t listen to any of these turds.
[MR] Mist Raiders
Sucks to Suck
Sucks to Suck
Try it with Valkyrie or try this:
Best regards!
Shino
Shinobi Sicarius [ Thief / Lvl: 80 / PvP Rank: 250+]
[5/8 Champion Titles – Legendary Division] [19k+ AP]
[BEER – Dungeon Riders – Desolation]
[5/8 Champion Titles – Legendary Division] [19k+ AP]
[BEER – Dungeon Riders – Desolation]
Try it with Valkyrie or try this:
Best regards!
Shino
I thought about running Valk, but since the pulmonary impact can’t crit I went with toughness over crit damage. Havoc mastery is nice too. I may try it out when I have the time since the flat +% damage will scale nicely.
I find this build interesting more from the perspective of the interrupts than anything.
Now obviously yours relies lot on Pulmonary impact but…
There three new rather interesting sigils that proc on interrupt. One stacks might. One steals a boon and one steals life. They are new so I have no ideal of the cooldowns but I wonder just how well these would work in the build over the ones you are using?
A combination of bountiful theft and the steal boon sigil with a head shot twinned with life steal and yoru pulmonary impact on the same might be very interesting. I am not sure these allowed in Pvp.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
I find this build interesting more from the perspective of the interrupts than anything.
Now obviously yours relies lot on Pulmonary impact but…
There three new rather interesting sigils that proc on interrupt. One stacks might. One steals a boon and one steals life. They are new so I have no ideal of the cooldowns but I wonder just how well these would work in the build over the ones you are using?
A combination of bountiful theft and the steal boon sigil with a head shot twinned with life steal and yoru pulmonary impact on the same might be very interesting. I am not sure these allowed in Pvp.
I don’t think they are in PvP. I remember checking because I got the boon-steal one through the story. I could have overlooked them though.
Full Disclosure: I don’t own HoT, so I can’t test this build. The following opinion is based just from looking at the build on paper.
I want to like this build, it looks like so many things come together to build 1 nice little package. The issue I’m having with it however is that it doesn’t really change how you play thief. It doesn’t look like you’ll be “brawling” – your sustain is limited to higher vit/toughness than usual for a thief and DF. You’re even more exposed to conditions than the “standard” thief builds.
Also, all of your damage is single target, and relies on having D/P equipped – the second you switch to Sbow, your ability to do damage almost completely dissipates, and your defenses drop to just DS.
When I think Daredevil brawler, I’m thinking something more like this
Of course I can’t test it, but (on paper) it looks like it has everything your build has, only more. Weakening strikes and Vault are both listing around 2k for a target with 2600 armor – that’s without counting staff master, lead attacks, exposed weakness, or executioner, and they’re both AoE. You’re impossible to pin down both withdraw and dash, and your DR will bounce between 7 and 27%. You’re also much, much more resistant to conditions (you could even swap Staff master for EA if you really needed to), and if you keep staff master in place you’re probably on par or above the endurance regen with Brawlers tenacity. Shbow doesn’t offer much in the way of damage, but CG and CB at least give you access to weakness for sustain.
If you ever end up trying this build out, let me know how it performs.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
Full Disclosure: I don’t own HoT, so I can’t test this build. The following opinion is based just from looking at the build on paper.
I want to like this build, it looks like so many things come together to build 1 nice little package. The issue I’m having with it however is that it doesn’t really change how you play thief. It doesn’t look like you’ll be “brawling” – your sustain is limited to higher vit/toughness than usual for a thief and DF. You’re even more exposed to conditions than the “standard” thief builds.
Also, all of your damage is single target, and relies on having D/P equipped – the second you switch to Sbow, your ability to do damage almost completely dissipates, and your defenses drop to just DS.
When I think Daredevil brawler, I’m thinking something more like this
Of course I can’t test it, but (on paper) it looks like it has everything your build has, only more. Weakening strikes and Vault are both listing around 2k for a target with 2600 armor – that’s without counting staff master, lead attacks, exposed weakness, or executioner, and they’re both AoE. You’re impossible to pin down both withdraw and dash, and your DR will bounce between 7 and 27%. You’re also much, much more resistant to conditions (you could even swap Staff master for EA if you really needed to), and if you keep staff master in place you’re probably on par or above the endurance regen with Brawlers tenacity. Shbow doesn’t offer much in the way of damage, but CG and CB at least give you access to weakness for sustain.
If you ever end up trying this build out, let me know how it performs.
The shortcomings you mentioned are true. It is weak to condis which is why I was trying to make it work with S/P at first. I’m hoping that adding SoA back in will improve this slightly. The only issue I see with the build you linked is that most of the damage is close combat due to the reliance on Weakening Charge. That’s not really too much of a problem imo as the toughness and vitality should let it stick around within melee. I wanted to use X/P though with the pulmonary impact trait though because it can apply pressure from range as well with headshot. Using BPS+Bound also results in an automatic crit on backstab with daredevil runes so it has alright pressure at both medium and close range combined with the ability to stealth. I’ve used staff in PvP, but it seems to work best (so far) with the standard maurader amulet setup . I’m sure setting up Vault with a dodge combined with daredevil runes would make for a decent burst while still using soldier amulet. Combined with the weakness trait like you have in that build would probably provide excellent sustain also.
Full Disclosure: I don’t own HoT, so I can’t test this build. The following opinion is based just from looking at the build on paper.
I want to like this build, it looks like so many things come together to build 1 nice little package. The issue I’m having with it however is that it doesn’t really change how you play thief. It doesn’t look like you’ll be “brawling” – your sustain is limited to higher vit/toughness than usual for a thief and DF. You’re even more exposed to conditions than the “standard” thief builds.
Also, all of your damage is single target, and relies on having D/P equipped – the second you switch to Sbow, your ability to do damage almost completely dissipates, and your defenses drop to just DS.
When I think Daredevil brawler, I’m thinking something more like this
Of course I can’t test it, but (on paper) it looks like it has everything your build has, only more. Weakening strikes and Vault are both listing around 2k for a target with 2600 armor – that’s without counting staff master, lead attacks, exposed weakness, or executioner, and they’re both AoE. You’re impossible to pin down both withdraw and dash, and your DR will bounce between 7 and 27%. You’re also much, much more resistant to conditions (you could even swap Staff master for EA if you really needed to), and if you keep staff master in place you’re probably on par or above the endurance regen with Brawlers tenacity. Shbow doesn’t offer much in the way of damage, but CG and CB at least give you access to weakness for sustain.
If you ever end up trying this build out, let me know how it performs.
I tried it out a mix of the suggested build you suggested and the build I originally presented here
Full Disclosure: I don’t own HoT, so I can’t test this build. The following opinion is based just from looking at the build on paper.
I want to like this build, it looks like so many things come together to build 1 nice little package. The issue I’m having with it however is that it doesn’t really change how you play thief. It doesn’t look like you’ll be “brawling” – your sustain is limited to higher vit/toughness than usual for a thief and DF. You’re even more exposed to conditions than the “standard” thief builds.
Also, all of your damage is single target, and relies on having D/P equipped – the second you switch to Sbow, your ability to do damage almost completely dissipates, and your defenses drop to just DS.
When I think Daredevil brawler, I’m thinking something more like this
Of course I can’t test it, but (on paper) it looks like it has everything your build has, only more. Weakening strikes and Vault are both listing around 2k for a target with 2600 armor – that’s without counting staff master, lead attacks, exposed weakness, or executioner, and they’re both AoE. You’re impossible to pin down both withdraw and dash, and your DR will bounce between 7 and 27%. You’re also much, much more resistant to conditions (you could even swap Staff master for EA if you really needed to), and if you keep staff master in place you’re probably on par or above the endurance regen with Brawlers tenacity. Shbow doesn’t offer much in the way of damage, but CG and CB at least give you access to weakness for sustain.
If you ever end up trying this build out, let me know how it performs.
I tried it out a mix of the suggested build you suggested and the build I originally presented here
Looks like it performed about how I expected (with a little more damage and a little less survivability, due to your tweaks).
How did you like it, compared to the D/P Pulmonary impact build?
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Full Disclosure: I don’t own HoT, so I can’t test this build. The following opinion is based just from looking at the build on paper.
I want to like this build, it looks like so many things come together to build 1 nice little package. The issue I’m having with it however is that it doesn’t really change how you play thief. It doesn’t look like you’ll be “brawling” – your sustain is limited to higher vit/toughness than usual for a thief and DF. You’re even more exposed to conditions than the “standard” thief builds.
Also, all of your damage is single target, and relies on having D/P equipped – the second you switch to Sbow, your ability to do damage almost completely dissipates, and your defenses drop to just DS.
When I think Daredevil brawler, I’m thinking something more like this
Of course I can’t test it, but (on paper) it looks like it has everything your build has, only more. Weakening strikes and Vault are both listing around 2k for a target with 2600 armor – that’s without counting staff master, lead attacks, exposed weakness, or executioner, and they’re both AoE. You’re impossible to pin down both withdraw and dash, and your DR will bounce between 7 and 27%. You’re also much, much more resistant to conditions (you could even swap Staff master for EA if you really needed to), and if you keep staff master in place you’re probably on par or above the endurance regen with Brawlers tenacity. Shbow doesn’t offer much in the way of damage, but CG and CB at least give you access to weakness for sustain.
If you ever end up trying this build out, let me know how it performs.
I tried it out a mix of the suggested build you suggested and the build I originally presented here
Looks like it performed about how I expected (with a little more damage and a little less survivability, due to your tweaks).
How did you like it, compared to the D/P Pulmonary impact build?
I actually had a lot of fun on it. I didn’t include the first game I play with it, but it actually hits surprisingly hard and was consistently hitting for 7k and above on vault against some mesmers. It’s nice to not melt instantly in DH traps also.