Guild Wars 2

Using skale venom with deluge do not trigger skale venom condition but use up the charge.

Fairly often I feel when I use Cloak and Dagger (skill 5 with Pistol + Dagger), stealth is immediately broken. I don’t know what is happening exactly, it almost seems like I might pressed 5 then 1 in sequence and perhaps something is going wrong as the calls are being queued.

I think when stealth gets activated all queued skills should be canceled and auto attack stops. Perhaps this is what is suppose to happen, but it isn’t always.

Edelweiss

Fleet Shadow trait from the Acrobatics line doesn’t work.

It does work, but it doesn’t stack with signet of shadows or swiftness.

Not sure if this bug is the rune of dwayna or shadow protector. I can’t seem to get one or the other to go off when I have a regen boon running from the other. Regen states that it stacks duration. My expected outcome here is to get 6 sec of regen as I hit withdraw, then I may do cloak and dagger, adding another 5 seconds to be at a total of 10 at that point. Currently nothing happens as I do the 2nd action expected to give regeneration time

I’ve been having trouble stomping people specifically when my quickness proc goes off on my main hand and I’m stealth at the same time. It animates as quick as its supposed to but nothing happens. Have even done it twice and it just misses so to speak. I know it is not being interrupted or anything. Am I the only one having such an issue?

Basilisk Venom (and possibly all venom’s): one charge goes off on a steal with out the effect being applied, without the mug trait.

i don’t think it should be counting as a use if the skill in question does no damage? (it would be like if Infiltrators shot used up venom charges too)

Channeled and bouncing abilities still hitting while in stealth.

As it stands now, if a thief goes stealth while a channeled or casted ranged ability the ability still hits its full duration. Somewhat frustrating to be running a high-stealth defense build when 50% of the abilities still hit you while in stealth.

Note: Mele abilities still hit, however that makes sense. A sword is still going to hit a target, regardless if it can be seen or not.

Knyx.5926:

Pistol Whip self roots.
any self rooting ability on a mobility class has to be a bug.

Simply not true. Consider it an opportunity cost. Ie, pistol whip, or hundred blades dishes out loads of damage but you need to make sure it lands properly.

This is not exactly a bug, and I’m not sure if people have said this already.

The utility skill Shadowstep needs some kind of 1/2 second pause from when you shadowstep and when you want to shadowstep back.

Since I always try to find the maximum range while having Fast-Casting on, I move my mouse slowly while spam hitting the button. Suddenly, it triggers twice, making me return back to my position like the same instant I went forward. Sometimes it’s lag that triggers it so I don’t have time to react once I’ve already shadowstepped.
This really sucks in WvW when you’re quickittenrying to get away from the enemy as fast as possible, only to find you went back to them, resulting in a death.

Just a tiny cooldown after teleport would help tremendously.

Seems like when I use Cloak and Dagger and while it’s charging I attempt to Steal. It sometimes stealths me but most of the time it doesn’t.

So I tried to use the Hidden Thief trait to get stealth to go off, and it told me I was Immune and didn’t work that way either.

It seems to me that one of these two routes should work, if not both methods.

If you disagree, then I shouldn’t be able to cast Steal while Cloak and Dagger or it should cancel it and not make me immune to stealthing.

Finally for the record using the above technique seems to apply the vulnerability of Cloak and Dagger, just not the stealth.

a few things I would like to mention,

poison charges being consumed when attacking out of range or auto attacking… im sorry but if i miss a swing my poison should magically disapear. the stacks shoudl only be consumed on actual “hits/blocks”

traps being visible to enemy players, this completely defeats the purpose of having traps… ive set them down in strategic places so that people will hit them only to watch them just run around them because they can see them

staying in combat almost twice as long as other classes, I have noticed that thieves stay in combat after a fight way to long… i watched as i was downed almost split second after the enemy player started to regen, of course being a 1v1 fight no one else was around. but when the reverse happens I down someone in a 1v1 fight i stay in combat and dont regen almost 7-8 seconds then someone else runs up and im stuck at half health.

IMPORTANT
i get cooldown on basilisk veonom underwater when new map starts. it might be relic after previus game. fix asap

Hidden Thief trait does not disable auto-attack. So, stealth is broken immediately.

This is either a bug, or poorly designed trait and needs to be fixed. Would be a very good trait if fixed.

moving signet of shadows in the utility bar(ie: from 9 to 8 slot ), makes it to lose effect (the little icon of signet doesn’t appear). to force the signet to work you have to remove from utility bar and put again in the chosen slot.

The 2 most annoying bugs (imo) is still not being addressed:

1) Auto attacking on steal and causing Hidden Thief to be horrible trait. This was not an issue in the first month of the game. Please fix this crap.

2) Stealing, having it go on cooldown, and not stealing anything. This happens from time to time on people running, standing still, and/or not evading/dodging/blocking.

Deadly arts trait: Combined Training (major trait 10) only affects the first hit on pistol whip (sword/pistol dual skill) and shadow strike (pistol/dagger dual skill)

Ensign.2189:

Cluster Bomb says it applies 3 stacks of bleeding on hit in the skill description, but only applies 1. One or the other is a bug (I presume the effect is bugged since detonating the shot right before impact gives the 3 stacks anyway).

When you detonate the shot, you don’t inflict always 3 stacks: it depends on how many clusters hit a specific target. It’s atm 1 stack per cluster (and it seems capped at 3 anyway).

However the Bomb will inflict only 1 stack of bleeding without detonating it, instead of the 3 (and I think it’s a bug a not “as inteded”).

I don’t know if this is thief bug or graphic bug .Very often when i stealth with C&D my character remains entirely visible for me,despite that i am in Stealth(i have the icon,my passives in stealth are working).It’s just that in a intensive pvp fight i don’t have the time to watch my buffs bar and i rely on that if my character goes blurred(invisible).And very often it deceives me that my C&D missed and i am not in stealth,i press again C&D just to get “revealed” and after that with no initiative and no stealth is gg.I run on minimum graphic quality options if that matters(i hope it doesn’t for such important animation).

x

Channeled and bouncing abilities still hitting while in stealth.

Stealth isn’t designed to protect from this kind of abilities. It would be absurdly OP.

traps being visible to enemy players

Traps are visible for only a few seconds, after this period of time enemies can’t see them, but many players have an ability to remember where the trap was placed.

stealth with C&D my character remains entirely visible for me,despite that i am in Stealth(i have the icon,my passives in stealth are working)

I can confirm this, very annoying.

Infiltrators strike:
Its shadow return sometimes doesn’t teleport. The player remains in place, what leads to death in many cases. Sadly, I don’t know how to test this bug.

Dagins.5163:

Stealth isn’t designed to protect from this kind of abilities. It would be absurdly OP.

Now how can you possibly know how is Stealth designed?Are you an ANet employee?The fact that it works this atm can mean two things: either it is designed that way or it isn’t and it’s bugged.Also ANet change lot of things that werent bugged,but was later considered “not where they were want them to be”.
So at the end it’s a matter of players opinion and i would like to see your opinion about how exactly will be “absurdly OP” .Cheers.

This is actually very easy to explain. It’s not bugged, because otherwise it would be no.1 thing to fix during beta, and it would require only a few lines of code to implement – quick and easy. Getting hit during stealth is very “visible”, and devs don’t even need reports to know it.

Most important rule about balance in games – don’t use argument “in real world”.

Stealth is used for sneak attacks and escapes. Thieves (especially glass cannons) using C&D or <Hide in shadows> as a shield to mitigate channeled hits or bouncing AoE strikes would be totally OP. Our PvP and PvE would be needed to be balanced around this feature. It means, that we were forced to use dagger in off hand and <hide in shadows> as a healing ability, because it would protect from big amounts of damage. Being forced to a certain build isn’t fun at all.

I’d like to point out, using a guildmate’s screenshot and my math, an issue I see with the Thief class:

In this below image, you have his combat log from what is obviously sPvP (you can see the target player’s name).

http://i.imgur.com/dvYx4.jpg

This log shows him hit:
Mug (Steal) for 6,125 damage
Cloak and Dagger for 5,629 damage
Backstab for 19,024 damage

Let’s look at the math behind this …

The backstab was for 19,024.

Assuming 30/30/0/0/10 build and taking anything that would up damage with daggers we have the following traits that matter:

• Venemous Strength: Venoms grant 2 stacks of might
• Exposed Weakness: Deal 10% more damage to targets with a condition on them
• Dagger Training: Deal 5% more damage with daggers
• Signets of Power: Signets grant 5 stacks of might
• First Strikes: Deal 10% more damage when Initiative is over 6
• Executioner: Deal 20% more damage when target is below 50% health
• Flanking Strikes: Deal 5% more damage when attacking a foe from behind or the side

Let’s also get the most damage we can out of our amulet … Berserkers has the most power and +15% crit damage
A full set of Divinity gives decent power and +12% crit damage
A crit normally does 150% damage but with 30 points in Critical Strikes and the above runes and amulet a crit will do 207% damage … so +107% damage.

So we have
+ 10% … from Exposed Weakness
+ 5% … from Dagger Training
+ 10% … from First Strikes
+ 20% … from Executioner
+ 5% … from Flanking Strikes
+107% … from crit

Total of +157% damage

19,024 / 2.57 = 7,402 damage non-crit without any + damage from traits, etc.

… to be generous, let’s say you had 25 stacks of might and the coefficient of power to damage is 1 … so 25*35 = 875 damage.

So 7,402 – 875 = 6,527

Let’s account for 5 stacks of vulnerability … that would have made it +162% damage total

19,024 / 2.62 = 7,261 damage non-crit without any + damage from traits, etc.

… and let’s be generous again saying there was somehow 25 stacks of might on the thief and the coefficient is ridiculous …

So 7,261 – 875 = 6,386

Hell, let’s try 10 stacks of vulnerability … that would have made it +167% damage total

19,024 / 2.67 = 7,125 damage non-crit without any + damage from traits, etc.

… and let’s be overly generous with the might again …

So 7,125 – 875 = 6,250

So what’s wrong here?

Most people have to invest quite a bit with their class in order to hit 6k damage … and that’s them critting for 6k.

Furthermore, the hits that do this amount of damage have a bloody animation that gives you a 1/2 second to evade them.

Despite this, Thief can hit you for 6k, non-crit without any sources of +damage, vulnerability, or might and you don’t even get to see it coming … or they can be in the real world and hit you for upwards of 19k and you still won’t see it coming.

Best of luck guessing when to dodge roll during their 3+ seconds of stealth.

I didnt see this one in any of the posts, not sure if this is a bug or i am missing something

Range on pistol auto attack seems to be less than the mentioned 900 (or atleast less than the shortbow auto attack which also says 900)
I found this while doing the last boss in twilight arbor. as anyone who as done the dungeon knows, you have to stand there and just spam the auto attack. So i was using my shortbow which was doing damage and then standing in the same spot i changed to my pistol which showed out of range

Have you tested this Sebrent? Great post, btw.
Reason I ask is that I play a thief and have tested builds almost identical to that one you posted in the Mists PvP lobby area and have never gotten backstabs anywhere near that amount. Matter of fact, after hours of testing max damage backstab builds, I don’t believe I ever broke 11k… and that was on a light armored golem under 25% health.

I’m not saying BS is anywhere near balanced, but I’m fairly certain there are variables to that screenshot that we don’t have.

Anyway, I am primarily a WvW player and discovered quite some time ago that the underwater harpoon skill “Ink Shot” could be used to teleport a thief above the water. I have used it to great tactical effect during underwater skirmishes, but it has come to my attention that players have begin using it (as well as the elementalist’s “Air Bubble”), to bypass certain unscalable objects.
Are these skills working as intended, or is using them in this manner considered an exploit/abuse of a bugged skill?

Yes, but not much. … I don’t remember posting a build in the Mists PvP Lobby.

Here’s some stupid amounts of high damage from Cloak and Dagger … 8,712 … 12,505 … 6,259 damage.
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/12148/gw150.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/12149/gw151.jpg

And plenty of examples of ridiculous damage from Backstab:
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/3350/Backstabcrit.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/3418/gw005.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/3433/gw006.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_YwoDsIbfMI/UFRaus8DrpI/AAAAAAAAABw/YYmJUlg5OJM/s1280/gw001.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/mjo9wo.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/10313/BACKSTAB.jpg

And here we have showing a decent backstab and 2 heartseekers … just to highlight there’s multiple ways for a thief to kill someone in 3 hits.
http://i.imgur.com/xMxXc.jpg

Dagins.5163:

@up
Even if you hit in the air, venom drops.

Vigorous Recovery trait:
Vigor duration doesn’t increase even with passive +30% boon duration from Acrobatics. It should last 13 seconds, not 10. All other boons work fine. I am not sure how about Vigor from other sources, I will test it soon.
@edit
Vigor from other sources (ectoplasm stolen from a mesmer) work fine.

Needle and tripwire traps:
If a thief places a trap, then goes into stealth, and an enemy triggers that trap soon after, stealth will be broken.

vigorous recovery is not scaling with Acrobatics trait – boom duration. This really needs to be fixed……………….

Stealth Issues ( i think) :

Is it intended that sometimes you can do 2/3 attacks (i.e one BS and one or two HS/autoattack) from stealth without appearing on ennemy screen ? i hope not

@Sebrent: I can see your point. However, to be more precise with the math, start with the fact (that you didn’t mention) that Backstab has a skill coefficient of 2.715 (given or taken some decimals). And the amount of damage inflicted varies alot due to armor of the target, power of the thief, etc.

For example, the minimum armor that a player can have is 1836 (916 base tough + 920 total from light armor). Let’s factor all the traits that you said, add a sigil of force (5%) and a fully stacked sigil of bloodlust (250 to power).

We arrive at 2869 Power (I considered the 30/30/0/0/10 traits (916+300=1216), plus Berserker’s Amulet (923), Runes of Divinity (60), full stacked bloodlust (+250), plus Venomous Strength and Signet of Power with 2 signets activated, for +420 Power given by Might). So, the maximum amount of base damage inflicted, taking the upper limit of the dagger damage (981) is:

2869*981*2.715/1836 = 4162

Now let’s add all the dmg increments: Flank Strike +5%, Executioner +20%, Expos. Weak. +10%, Dagger Training +5%, First Strike +10%, Sigil of Force +5%, Assassin’s Signet +50%, 3 Stacks of vulnerability after C&D +3% -> +108%

Damage becomes 8657.

If we crit, we should add +50+62=+112% damage, and we arrive at 18353.

Maybe your guildy just got more vulnerability on his target and/or more might given by an ally to reach the 19k he inflicted, but we all get the picture, it’s a lot of damage.

For example, if we do all the calcs again for a target with 2200 Armor we get:

2869*981*2.715/2200= 3473, and adding the damage from traits/whatever and crit we get a total of 16374.

Now, the problem for the thief is that he must give back something in order to do all this damage, mostly Armor (2040) and HPs (15655), which is the base idea around the Thief class: to do a lot of damage but to be not capable of sustaining a lot of damage himself (more or less pronounced if we spec for glass cannon or not).

However, I’m sure that we’ll see some nerf to backstab and extreme glass cannon builds in the future, and I hope we’ll get in return some buff to other kind of builds (remove that kitten 15% nerf to PW pls!).

Death blossom, an evasive attack, isn’t (reliably).

I don’t actually think the final “Invulnerable” should have been applied, FWIW, but the game said I was… that may be a separate bug but it’s still a bug.

@11s DB interrupted and I take 841 damage.
@16s DB started before Warrior’s attack (hard to see this on Youtube, but watching the source video frame by frame reveals it), but no evade — I take 843 and crippled.
@25s I’m invulnerable (!) but I take a kill shot (downed).

If the evade mechanic isn’t reliable it makes it very hard to melee effectively against anything but trash mobs. It was far more survivable to switch to p/p and blind/stealth/evade, but you don’t do much damage that way. ArenaNet bills this class as having evasions skills that make it capable of tanking… for such a class, this mechanic fails, especially when combined with the many valid complaints about how stealth fails.

if you are in combat mode, you stealth and you switch weapon with hydromancy or something similar on it, you are revealed.
maybe it would be too op, but it seems to me a bad issue.

i didn’t read through the 4 pages, so sorry if this has been mentioned. I started using basilisk venom today and noticed that it doesn’t work at all when i use shadow shot. haven’t used it much but thats the only skill i’ve noticed it not working for. works great with steal

Venom bugs:

moreover all the bugs already said, I found that 2 venoms (on 5) are bugged, because basilisk venom and devourer venom do not stack in duration.

This is a huge bug, because both venoms should provide control for some seconds, considering all the points spent on them for traits. Instead of stacking in duration, they just reset their duration, so if you use devourer venom, for example, you are not stacking the 2s of immobilize, but you keep “overwriting” them and as far as your attacks are usually very fast, the full effect of the utility instead of being 6 secs (or more, with +% condition duration) will be 3 or less.

Same for basilisk.
This bugs make the venoms builds not viable for me, hope you can fix it

Dagins.5163:

Infiltrators strike:
Its shadow return sometimes doesn’t teleport. The player remains in place, what leads to death in many cases. Sadly, I don’t know how to test this bug.

Okay, I managed to pull of this bug in sPvP on an elementalist yesterday.
It seems, that when the targed has some kind of invulnerability, infiltrator’s strike skill doesn’t change into shadow return. I don’t know if it can be done with simple evade, because it’s hard to test. That means, you can jump to the target 2 times in a row. It might have some special use, but in general it’s very bad thing.

shadow art, trait MELD WITH SHADOWS, doesn’t seems to work as i can’t see the 1 sec last longer stealth.
or maybe it is explained bad

Shadow Trap, if triggered in the middle of an attack instantly un-stealths you. I see a couple of viable alternatives of varying favor for the thief player. 1) Instantly stealth, and cancel the current attack, cooldown can reset or not reset or some compromise; 2) Instantly stealth, and continue the current attack; 3)Stealth immediately upon finishing the current attack, the teleport can happen at time of trigger or at time of stealth. All are viable alternatives because in all of them I actually get to attempt to utilize the stealth without having it instantly broken…

There’s a bug when you use a stolen weapon that has a cast time while the Steal ability IS NOT on cooldown: If you spam ’’F1’’ you will use Steal before you even cast your stolen weapon, thus teleporting to your foe and wasting your Steal (becasue you still haven’t used your current stolen weapon). Pretty huge bug imo, I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet…

Also, I think I might be going crazy, but I swear I’m just randomly Dodge Rolling when I’m strafing and spamming weapon skills? This has only been happening since the last patch.

Regarding the “Hidden Thief” trait and auto-attack:

I’ve noticed that, while using Pistol/Dagger, initiating combat by using the Steal ability is acting in a very bad way. Your character shadowsteps as he should, and even stealths. But he immediately takes 1 regular shot with his pistol, thereby breaking stealth.

This behavior differs from Dagger/Pistol, in that when you initiate combat with Steal with Dagger/Pistol, your character will shadowstep to your target, stealth, and not take a swing, thereby staying in stealth as he should.

I’m not sure if other weapon combinations provide different behavior like those two do – I don’t have extra weapons on hand to try them out at the moment. (Sorry if this has already been mentioned in the thread – but it’s making my Pistol/Dagger build a lot less useful in WvW due to having fewer openers available)

I did some testing with Spider venom, Devourer venom and Basilisk venom.

Shadow Shot (3 dagger/pistol) consumes a venom charge without applying the venom. This is extra bad when using Basilisk Venom as you can’t even initiate with shadow shot, as it goes to waste.

Extra stuff with venoms:
Steal – Same thing, wastes a charge, doesn’t apply.
Trick Shot (shortbow 1) – Seems to apply most venoms on all targets hit, but only consuming one charge.
Cluster Bomb (shortbow 2)- Consumes random number of charges, does not apply effects.
Choking Gas (shortbow 4)- Consumes 3 charges of a venom per use, but does not apply anything either.
Infiltrator’s Arrow (shortbow 5) – Consumes 2 charges, does not apply effects.
Unload (pistol/pistol 3) – Basilisk Venom uses the charge, but does not apply.
Black Powder (5 pistol) – Consumes a venom charge without applying anything.
Dancing Dagger (4 dagger) – Applies venom to all targets hit only consuming one charge. If the primary target is hit twice the venom applies twice (Does not happen with Basilisk Venom)

Devourer Venom and Basilisk Venom don’t seem to stack with themselves (duration gets reset every time it gets applied, instead of stacking).

All venoms are also lost on attacking thin air. Wouldn’t it be better if charges were lost on hit/block/dodges only?

Stolen skill disappearing on interrupt
Well, if you have any of the stolen skills, and you are interrupted when you are casting it, it will vanish instead of being put on small cooldown like other skills. This should be fixed asap.

Minor Trait Exposed Weakness: it should increment the damage by 10% if the target has a condition.

ATM, it doesn’t work with these skills:

Shadow Shot
Vital Shot
Body Shot
Black Powder
Cloak and Dagger
Dancing Dagger
Death Blossom
Sneak Attack
Disabling Shot

does bountiful theft trait bugged now?
it doesn’t give vigor when i’m steal ..

edit
nvm , must steal from target now .. doesn’t get vigor boon when activating steal

Sebrent,

you are posting in the wrong thread. this is not the place for balance discussion. this is for bug reports. please take it elsewhere.

venom should be carefully thought over. Basilisk venom SHOULD reset its duration, not stack it. But devourer should stack duration.
Wasting venoms into thin air and most (yes, absolutely most) skills do not apply venoms at all. All this combined makes venomous aura trait and whole idea of support thief very sad.
Also, not really a thief issue, but it really got me that after days of farming sup monk rune (6) bonus has an unmentioned cd, rendering a good addition to already not so good support thief wasted 50% of time. I would have never considered taking an upgrade that I cannot rely on. Either I get aegis on every Basilisk venom, or i don’t want it at all. So please, if removing cd is not an option due to balancing, clearly state any such information on all runes (Lyssa has same issue too)

Pistol Damage is worthless, Pistol Skills 4/5 are extreamly situational and cost too much.

Stealth and animations:
It seems like character animations – started while stealthed – do not broadcast properly to enemy players.

For example if an enemy starts to Finish me while stealthed and he pops out of stealth in the middle of it, I see him starting the Finish animation as he pops out and I get finished a second later with a glitchy animation.
This makes it impossible to reliably interrupt people after they pop out of stealth with chanelled attacks (pistol whip/Finish/Revive).

Putting signets skill in other utility slots while Shadow Refuge is in cooldown will put that signet in the same cooldown as Shadow Refuge… Very annoying.
And agian, when swapping signets (Ex. swap Signet of Shadows in slot 2 with Signet of Agility that was in slot 3) one of them won’t work untill you replace it with some other skills and change back.

Basilisk Venow didn’t applied stun on Steal/Mug

Venoms are disappearing from charge when I use the trick caltrop. I don’t have this issue with scorpion wire, another type of trick. It has an odd delay for when it disappears, usually 2 seconds after I use caltrops. I haven’t started using caltrops with venoms until after the recent update, so I don’t know if it’s a persistent bug or not.

Edit: I’ve done some testing, and it seems if you even have caltrops on the field/in-play, your venoms will completely disappear before you can use them. This is a pretty huge bug for people who use venoms and caltrops.

The 15 seconds of “Vigor” from the traits are no longer effected by boon duration. (I don’t think.)

“Bountiful Theft” Trait.

[Flanking Strike]

The sword-dagger skill #3: “Flanking strike” has several problems.

1. In general, it’s viability (damage wise and usefulness) in comparison to every other thief weapon set is very questionable.

2. Probably the most major issue with this skill is that it doesn’t follow target. First off, it has a very very short range. If your target is moving and you attempt to use this skill, it will just jump to the right and completely miss the target. It’s nearly impossible to hit a target with this skill; especially when they’re moving.

Overall, I believe this skill truly needs to be reviewed by the devs and be fixed and/or buffed. It really makes sword-dagger builds LESS useful for a thief in comparison to sword-pistol and dagger-dagger.

There’s a reason why you rarely run into a thief using sword-dagger. It just doesn’t match the capabilities of other weapon sets. That should be considered an issue.