Guild Wars 2

I will go for mainstream SPVP builds

S/P
S/D
D/P

Which do you think will falter, and what do you think will rise to most played?

I will say currently in this order by most played type

1) s/d
2) d/p
3) d/d
4) s/p

What do you think will be on top?

I tried s/p today and it was really fun!

D/P is definivlity on the top right now by no competion at all right now, I belive P/P might see some more play, due to them hopefully doin the changes for pistol #2. D/P is probilary gonna sink, due to get nerfed, S/D will probilary sink, but not much due to shaving it down a bit. I actually belive all weapons will fall down on around same usefulness to be honest, atleast after ppl get used to it. Some weapons will of course be played less for some areas and such, for example d/d is never used for spvp, but really good for pve, and high skillcap wvwvw Ppl of course will want to stick with their weapons, but over time i think things will even out, maybe d/d a bit lower as usual, due to lacking permastealth and is a stealth based build, HOWEVER d/d is one of the best weaponsets for wvwvw i run it all the time, ive done 1v6 with it so its kind of good!

D/P hasn’t been used much at high levels for the past few months…
S/D is by far the current Apex predator Thief set.

As for what I think/hope will change, I’m hoping for a comeback for S/P with some buffs to make Pistol Whip a bit more reliable for evasion/damage dealing and toning down of retal damage. D/x really needs a more reliable disengage mechanism than Stealth for it to top S/x in viability.

P/P needs a disengage/gap opener/mobility skill and maybe some kind of evade. Otherwise SB will still end up being the superior set.

p/p needs a good auto attack.

Kaon.7192:

D/P hasn’t been used much at high levels for the past few months…
S/D is by far the current Apex predator Thief set.

As for what I think/hope will change, I’m hoping for a comeback for S/P with some buffs to make Pistol Whip a bit more reliable for evasion/damage dealing and toning down of retal damage. D/x really needs a more reliable disengage mechanism than Stealth for it to top S/x in viability.

P/P needs a disengage/gap opener/mobility skill and maybe some kind of evade. Otherwise SB will still end up being the superior set.

You are going from a pure spvp/tournament perspective now, what about the dear wvwvw?

if you plus all 3 modes together d/p will be atleast 50 % more than any weaponset.

Tremain.4623:

p/p needs a good auto attack.

It has a perfect auto for P/D

Unload is the only power focused pistol ability. Every other pistol ability is geared around condition duration. P/P being a pure damage output skill is an anomaly that encourages play of power-based pistol builds, and should remain the source of raw damage for those builds. If anything, P/P should be looked at for better damage/initiative ratios to make up for the weak ratio of its auto so that p/p remains competitive with similar weaponsets without destroying P/D in the process.

d/p is pretty much unviable right now along with everything else other than s/d. I actually think s/p is the second best weapon set for thieves. S/D is sort of strong but pales in comparison to the some other meta builds. D/P is still the most popular hotjoin set because it is fun but at high level its too squishy for this ridiculous condi/AOE meta.

I agree with Demonts.

I will elaborate on what he said.

By meta builds, I’m guessing he means
A) healing signet warrior. bunker or CC or condi and any kind of mix.
B) condi necro
C) spirit ranger

S/D would be real strong IF the above meta builds didn’t exist, possibly the strongest. But unfortunately those meta builds exist and are easily better, especially the warrior one which is FOTM and make up 40%+ of team rosters in solo Q now.

D/P is probably popular because you kill people with it, and as such you can “glory farm” but it doesn’t do as much for the overall score as S/D.

Over there on the warrior forums, some still think a thief can counter them, but it’s actually the other way around.

Big Tower.5423:

what about the dear wvwvw?

Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy roaming in WvW, but it’s not even remotely balanced in any way, shape, or form. Where D/D is strong and viable in WvW, it’s practically useless in PvP.

If we’re going to talk about the meta builds of any profession, we should be talking about the actual PvP of the game where everyone is equal in terms of equipment and amount of trait points, not the unbalanced mess that is WvW.

In my opinion D/P and S/D are tied at the moment, both see heavy use and suit in many situations. I personally use a build with D/P + S/D to gain the benefits of both weapon sets.

S/P is great, really, but it hasn’t seen mainstream use just yet. It is only going to get more popular in the future, especially if it receives another buff of some kind, though I think that is unlikely to happen.

S/P is awful….

I want D/D to get more luvvvv, it’s still fun to play, but I REALLY wish I could change Crippling Dagger and Death Blossom -_-

D/D looks freakin’ BA

for wvw its all depends how your game play
if you running alone looking for 1vX go d/p or d/d or even p/d. and it wont change after the new patch
if you roamer with group play s/p is strong set and even s/d and again i dont think it will change

i play s/p in wvw and after practice with this set its really stronger set for group play

messiah.1908:

for wvw its all depends how your game play
if you running alone looking for 1vX go d/p or d/d or even p/d. and it wont change after the new patch
if you roamer with group play s/p is strong set and even s/d and again i dont think it will change

i play s/p in wvw and after practice with this set its really stronger set for group play

+1 I run s/p in wvw as well with shortbow, and its really fun. I don’t think it needs a buff at all. Some poison would be nice, but I can live with getting killed by healing signet warriors when I overcommit.

Kaizer.7135:

I want D/D to get more luvvvv, it’s still fun to play, but I REALLY wish I could change Crippling Dagger and Death Blossom -_-

D/D looks freakin’ BA

To what?

Deathblossom is an extremely effective groupfight condi spam and initiative-burning evade for when you don’t have any endurance (or want to save endurance) It’s also the only skill that makes D/D plausible as either a condi or crit build.

Dancing dagger is an extremely effective chasing tool, as well as a great self heal when used through darkness fields like your own shadow refuge or necro wells. It’s a 100% projective finicher that can proc combo effects up to 4 times per cast, making it extrmeley good as a lifesteal for heals (I actually use shadow refuge more as a combo field for this than for stealth!)

i have the feeling we will be nerfed very hard
they hate us so much……

PopeUrban.2578:

Kaizer.7135:

I want D/D to get more luvvvv, it’s still fun to play, but I REALLY wish I could change Crippling Dagger and Death Blossom -_-

D/D looks freakin’ BA

To what?

Deathblossom is an extremely effective groupfight condi spam and initiative-burning evade for when you don’t have any endurance (or want to save endurance) It’s also the only skill that makes D/D plausible as either a condi or crit build.

Dancing dagger is an extremely effective chasing tool, as well as a great self heal when used through darkness fields like your own shadow refuge or necro wells. It’s a 100% projective finicher that can proc combo effects up to 4 times per cast, making it extrmeley good as a lifesteal for heals (I actually use shadow refuge more as a combo field for this than for stealth!)

I think the biggest problem with Dancing Blossom is the fact that it’s not a full-frame evade like flanking strike or disabling shot. In the beginning and end of the animation you can still get hit (and will if you’re playing against decent players, or just enough lucky randoms). Shortening the animation time and making it evade for the entire animation would fix this up quite nicely I believe.

As for Dancing Dagger, yes it’s definitely one of the best projectile finishers in the game. But as you said the only decent projectile finisher combo field is dark, and there simply isn’t enough of those in the game to make projectile finishers genuinely useful. I find SR too important for team utility to use JUST for the combo field. As a chasing tool, the initiative cost is too high and cripple duration too low for it to be worthwhile compared to an Infiltrator Strike or Heartseeker.

Kaon.7192:

PopeUrban.2578:

Kaizer.7135:

I want D/D to get more luvvvv, it’s still fun to play, but I REALLY wish I could change Crippling Dagger and Death Blossom -_-

D/D looks freakin’ BA

To what?

Deathblossom is an extremely effective groupfight condi spam and initiative-burning evade for when you don’t have any endurance (or want to save endurance) It’s also the only skill that makes D/D plausible as either a condi or crit build.

Dancing dagger is an extremely effective chasing tool, as well as a great self heal when used through darkness fields like your own shadow refuge or necro wells. It’s a 100% projective finicher that can proc combo effects up to 4 times per cast, making it extrmeley good as a lifesteal for heals (I actually use shadow refuge more as a combo field for this than for stealth!)

I think the biggest problem with Dancing Blossom is the fact that it’s not a full-frame evade like flanking strike or disabling shot. In the beginning and end of the animation you can still get hit (and will if you’re playing against decent players, or just enough lucky randoms). Shortening the animation time and making it evade for the entire animation would fix this up quite nicely I believe.

As for Dancing Dagger, yes it’s definitely one of the best projectile finishers in the game. But as you said the only decent projectile finisher combo field is dark, and there simply isn’t enough of those in the game to make projectile finishers genuinely useful. I find SR too important for team utility to use JUST for the combo field. As a chasing tool, the initiative cost is too high and cripple duration too low for it to be worthwhile compared to an Infiltrator Strike or Heartseeker.

I wholly agree with the assesment on deathblossom, but IIRC it used to be a full frame evade and was nerfed because it was essentially godmode while easily stacking lots of bleeds very quicky. This is similar to the reason heartseeker’s evade was removed, being able to chain evasions that also automatically seek to targets we a bit overpowered. Heartseeker is in a really great place now due to its speed, distance, and (pretty balanced since it was nerfed) conditional damage.

However, the fact that it can’t be cancelled does lead to some very predictable “lock in” counters that let the enemy just time a wide variety of cooldowns. Given the way condition removal works… maybe we could give deathblossom back its full evade but add some sort of penalty to it so it would feel more balanced. Maybe if the seeking component was removed? Drop part of the bleeds for a non damaging condition? Then again maybe just going your route and making it shorter and giving the evade back would do the trick, considering lots of classes have received changes/buffs since it was adjusted and thief’s overall damage output has been lessened.

As for dancing dagger, I see where you’re coming from. I use it to help snare in groupfights, but rarely when solo. Then again, when I’m solo I often used the shadow refuge combo with it… but that’s a bit niche for my build, which stacks on-hit and per-ability heals with the lifesteal, which doesn’t mean its an all-around useful skill. Maybe we should just give it back the damage it used to have, or just drop the initiative cost. If that’s too powerful, reducing the range a bit to facilitate it’s returned power would be acceptable.

Excalibur.9748:

I agree with Demonts.

I will elaborate on what he said.

By meta builds, I’m guessing he means
A) healing signet warrior. bunker or CC or condi and any kind of mix.
B) condi necro
C) spirit ranger

S/D would be real strong IF the above meta builds didn’t exist, possibly the strongest. But unfortunately those meta builds exist and are easily better, especially the warrior one which is FOTM and make up 40%+ of team rosters in solo Q now.

D/P is probably popular because you kill people with it, and as such you can “glory farm” but it doesn’t do as much for the overall score as S/D.

Over there on the warrior forums, some still think a thief can counter them, but it’s actually the other way around.

Yup pretty much. The meta 0/10/30/0/30 warrior build should absolutely NEVER lose to a s/d thief. There are other good meta builds too. Basically warriors and every heavy CONDI AOE/Toughness build is better than s/d. And lets not forget guardians who are the most meta thing ever. Ive been seeing more 2 guardian comps lately as well. S/D thieves really dont bring too much to a team.