Guild Wars 2

As you many know, many classes have the option of building their stats into something bunkerish or balanced.
I usually play my thief in wvw or pvp with 0 0 30 30 10
Along with full berserker armor. It has -almost- permaswiftness so I don’t need SoS which gives me space to have blinding powder, shadow refuge and shadowstep. It’s all very cheesy and common but choosing other utilities feels like I’m just hindering myself.
It does okay damage, can’t take on bunkers if it’s not with S/D.
But problem is, I keep encountering people who have instagib combos.
1st case: a thief with P/P, (yes, quite shocking) surprise shot and unload with basilisk + haste (glassiest glass ever) took down 16k dmg from ranged all before I could do much, by the time I pressed blinding powder unload already connected and basilisk didn’t wore off, and I died before unload even finished, so it was even more dmg.
2nd. A warrior on axe shield and greatsword. I dodged his bollas, bullcharge and evarsicate, I put blinding powder on his 100b and then dodged so only 2 connected, and then whirling hits 3 times for a total of 10kish.
3rd. Another warrior, I ambushed, popped endure pain and fear me (lol why both) he was like at more than half health, then he pops a kill shot for 14k. I pop blinding powder, run around him and a blind volley kills me.
So I figured to change armor so I am not just a walking target. But I make the numbers and even with better armor/runes (as in aimed for defense) I’d still die easily AND have crappier damage. I don’t know if it’s that super glasses are OP or that thief is just meant to be instagibbed

it’s because you’re in full berserker armor. i’ve never been instagibbed, not even by another thief. (noone really runs basilisk venom full glass cannon D/D burst anymore)

Excalibur.9748:

it’s because you’re in full berserker armor. i’ve never been instagibbed, not even by another thief. (noone really runs basilisk venom full glass cannon D/D burst anymore)

Zerker armor with beryl. And all my trait lines have def + and hp + so if you’d rather trait offensively and armor defensively it should add up to the same, or close.
I haven’t been instagibbed by DD just once where it was a zerg so options are limited. But by doing the math, it’s close to the same, so say I was making numbers with soldier’s armor and figured I’d never be able to kill a bunker, never would kill a thief, I wouldn’t be instagibbed, good, but my effective hp is crap (amount of healing per amount of damage taken/damage done) so in the end, a 1v1 would be very bad. I must admit, these encounters are VERY rare, since I play very defensively but they happen because it’s this huge number out of the blue. Sometimes I can survive, but I have to sit there, waiting for another heal and stuff, it’s not fun. Granted, they’re on tricks that likely fail but if they don’t, they’re incredibly annoying.
What’s your advice you’d give to me? Care to share your stats?
Edit: Also it’s usually a problem with the camera where I can’t click a good place to shadowstep in time plus, these combos are split second worth so can’t turn in time OR I shadowstep to a crap place. I’ve tried ROI too but it’s kind of less viable when trying to run away.

Lulz, learn 2 dodge.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Lulz, learn 2 dodge.

I’d like a more relevant input please.
As stated in all three examples, there was no possibility to dodge due to CC and even with a stunbreaker (which we have two reliable ones outside S/X) it is enough time to land a good nuke. In one example, I did dodge the most relevant abilities and got hit by one ability for 10k which is hard to dodge since it’s instant and very fast, not to mention, melee range.
I am not QQing. I consider myself an average thief, I just want input to become better against these situations which are the only ones I have trouble with. Dodging isn’t the solution since there are abilities you can’t dodge or are hard to dodge.

You really don’t have the option of taking much of ANYTHING as a full zerker thief. You have to play offensively with that kind of a build.

It sounds like honestly the warriors were glass, as was the thief, and I mean glassy as can be. 14k killshot on a 0/0/30/30/10 build, 10k whirling, and 16k+ from 3 unloads all points to this, so with you build you could probably drop them with two backstabs. Maybe more for the warrior since they have higher HP and stuff but still…

You may be better going off for a condition/power/vit gearset with that current trait build you have.

Teamkiller.4315:

You really don’t have the option of taking much of ANYTHING as a full zerker thief. You have to play offensively with that kind of a build.

It sounds like honestly the warriors were glass, as was the thief, and I mean glassy as can be. 14k killshot on a 0/0/30/30/10 build, 10k whirling, and 16k+ from 3 unloads all points to this, so with you build you could probably drop them with two backstabs. Maybe more for the warrior since they have higher HP and stuff but still…

These were very particular cases. Usually it’s not like this but you could assume that by being so scarse, that they were on best conditions, on the opponent part that being stacks, food, ect. In normal cases this build proves to have very good damage trade off and only way to make it better is getting more toughness in order to get more valuable HP. I could kill them fast, sure, I have but what I don’t like is that it’s pretty much a gamble which a thief is on disadvantage due to less armor and lack of invuln’s.
And as I’ve stated before, traiting for more defense (just not to get instagibbed) makes other fights even longer and tedious.
Also, in a group, it’s already hard to keep up with the damage to be helpful so if I’d trait more into it I think I’d feel I’m being useless.
What I’m debating though is that maybe traits>armor in regards offense.

Yes traits are better for offense, if you put 30 points into CS you would have 40% (30% more crit damage via the talents spent + 10% more damage while over 6 initiative) more damage on your backstabs and also guarantee they crit meaning you can sub out beserkers pieces for valk if needed thus giving more hp but maintaining the high crit damage.

Ofcourse you’d lose the HP from the Acrobatics line so your hp would still even out around 16k/17k depending whether you go full valks or not (I run beserkers with valk weps and I sit at around 16k hp with a 0/30/30/10/0 build) but you’d have a lot more damage meaning the enemy is pressured into playing more defensive.

Jaycat.8167:

Yes traits are better for offense, if you put 30 points into CS you would have 40% (30% more crit damage via the talents spent + 10% more damage while over 6 initiative) more damage on your backstabs and also guarantee they crit meaning you can sub out beserkers pieces for valk if needed thus giving more hp but maintaining the high crit damage.

Ofcourse you’d lose the HP from the Acrobatics line so your hp would still even out around 16k/17k depending whether you go full valks or not (I run beserkers with valk weps and I sit at around 16k hp with a 0/30/30/10/0 build) but you’d have a lot more damage meaning the enemy is pressured into playing more defensive.

The idea sounds good on paper. But acro does give more utility when it comes to movement (more dodges, movement, init, ect). For much time I thought HP wasn’t quite the issue since I’m obsessed with effective HP but it might solve my problem to deal against intagib stuff. What makes me sad though, is that my build is gloriously good (at least it feels like) when it comes to anything else, feels like the survivability is so high I have control of the battle but these cheesy things are annoying. Not because you can’t kill them because you definately can but because they run like hyper-steroid bunnies when they fail.
I’ve even seen a thief who goes full soldier with all offensive traits and does fairly well.

Here are the cons of choosing the crit line over acro:
-Lack of perma swift
-lesser mobility
-less might
-less dodges
-less init
-kitten on % (which really just is for swift and might +)
-utility lost due to SoS

So now another problem rises. The problem to not be able to catch up mobile classes or other thieves. And I’d have to drop blinding powder or shadow refuge. Probably refuge but it’s a good “second heal” sometimes.
I know I seem to be picky because I “want to have it all” but I am just posing all my opportunity costs.

edit: I’ve also tried the condition, it’s terri bad (at least against people who know what they’re doing). Also, making some numbers, 16k doesn’t seem enough.
Seems like there’s a hidden holy trinity inside all this which goes glass>balanced>bunker>glass
I consider my traits fairly balanced, since my mitigation comes from else than just taking hits.
Also, this is just one single character, then imagine more.
And one last thing, I think I should not consider much changes since they’re supposed to bring some trait changes some time soon, and I think crit strikes will take a hard hit there.

I’ve had no mobility issues with a 0/30/30/10/0 build for chasing you have heartseeker (during stealth with Fleet Shadow the range is increased on it noticeably) as for initiative regen I run the SA trait for +2 initiative on stealth and I don’t really have any issues with initiative either, so long as you think about how your spending it and not going heartseeker crazy when there’s no need to , but there’s variants for D/P that use a 20/30/20 layout in the same trees for the added init regen and dodges, since I mainly use D/D I haven’t really tested those out much though, since I’d prefer the guaranteed crit on backstabs.

I don’t think you’ll find many decent physical damage builds running with 0 in critical strikes, like I said before if you’re not pressuring your opponent then they are just going to steamroll over you since they won’t feel threatened into using defensive play.

I think you need to choose between a SA or Acrobatics spec, there’s a few of sword/dagger specs based around evasion tanking that run x/30/x/30/x I believe, however if you’re running points in shadow arts then you should be focusing more on correct positioning during stealth. There seems to be little point in taking both trees since they promote different styles of play.

At the end of the day as a thief you’re not supposed to take damage and heal it up, hence our lack of access to boons such as regen and protection (outside of S/D stealing) a thief is about mitigating the damage via stealth/dodging/positioning etc.
which is why we need high damage with physical damage specs so we can deal alot of damage in between periods of stealth/dodging.

What Jaycat said. Also, you may wanna try Roll for Initiative instead of Blinding Powder (at least if you’re not using Withdraw…and I guess maybe you are).

Lymain.6723:

What Jaycat said. Also, you may wanna try Roll for Initiative instead of Blinding Powder (at least if you’re not using Withdraw…and I guess maybe you are).

That’s quite a good idea, the extra init should be useful too. What I don’t like about it is that it’s not a good choice in certain situations (leap of faith at a cliff!) However blinding powder usually meant 1 less condition, 2 might, blindness, and movement boost for me. But I’ll see how it works out, thanks!

Zephyric Reaper.3049:

Lymain.6723:

What Jaycat said. Also, you may wanna try Roll for Initiative instead of Blinding Powder (at least if you’re not using Withdraw…and I guess maybe you are).

That’s quite a good idea, the extra init should be useful too. What I don’t like about it is that it’s not a good choice in certain situations (leap of faith at a cliff!) However blinding powder usually meant 1 less condition, 2 might, blindness, and movement boost for me. But I’ll see how it works out, thanks!

Personally Blinding powder is the one utility I keep on my bars for the most part, I alternate between Roll/refuge/shadowstep and smokescreen (heartseeker/Cluster combo is great) for the others, occasionally I’ll use signet of agility (for the extra dodges) or on rare occasions devourer venom for the 4s root if I find people are getting away.

As far as utilities go you can just take what you’re comfortable with, main reason I keep Blinding Powder personally is because it’s the only ‘last resort’ sort of stealth we get, that you can use while stunned, with no target and in one press as oppose to the delay on CnD(or BP into HS as D/P) or heartseeker/Cluster combo on smokescreen.

Worth mentioning with a SA build I usually stick to HiS over withdraw, however with 15+ points in Acro I take withdraw with the vigor trait because the amount of dodges you can get out is just ridiculous.

Zephyric Reaper.3049:

edit: I’ve also tried the condition, it’s terri bad (at least against people who know what they’re doing). Also, making some numbers, 16k doesn’t seem enough.
Seems like there’s a hidden holy trinity inside all this which goes glass>balanced>bunker>glass
I consider my traits fairly balanced, since my mitigation comes from else than just taking hits.
Also, this is just one single character, then imagine more.
And one last thing, I think I should not consider much changes since they’re supposed to bring some trait changes some time soon, and I think crit strikes will take a hard hit there.

No, you just run a glass spec that still has good active defence. With such a spec it is always possible to screw up and lose fast because even 1 mistake can turn the tide of the battle. It is same thing for a glkittenter mesmer that I run. If I don’t focus, I can very easily lose against a good, agressive zerger warrior.

EDIT: gotta love the cursing filter we have on these forums xD

Master of Timespace.2548:

Zephyric Reaper.3049:

edit: I’ve also tried the condition, it’s terri bad (at least against people who know what they’re doing). Also, making some numbers, 16k doesn’t seem enough.
Seems like there’s a hidden holy trinity inside all this which goes glass>balanced>bunker>glass
I consider my traits fairly balanced, since my mitigation comes from else than just taking hits.
Also, this is just one single character, then imagine more.
And one last thing, I think I should not consider much changes since they’re supposed to bring some trait changes some time soon, and I think crit strikes will take a hard hit there.

No, you just run a glass spec that still has good active defence. With such a spec it is always possible to screw up and lose fast because even 1 mistake can turn the tide of the battle. It is same thing for a glkittenter mesmer that I run. If I don’t focus, I can very easily lose against a good, agressive zerger warrior.

EDIT: gotta love the cursing filter we have on these forums xD

Yeah, I guess you worded it better than I did. I love the spec, really, except when there’s lag. It feels like you are more active into the combat and not dependant too much on stats. However, it feels like zerk warriors are like some sort of lupi with less hp.
v _ v

Its probably the berserker stats you were running. I my self can’t be instagibbed by anything (has been tested). Go with valk armour and berserker trinkets and weapons.

Also go 0/30/30/10/0 Build

This with some good reactions and knowledge of the game should make you invincible. The only issue with this build is wearing down bunker builds. S/D is very effective against boon relyant bunker builds. But it is a sacrafice of mobility. GL