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Posted by: Grimreaper.5370

Grimreaper.5370

You’re all a bunch of kitten ed fools, first off who ever said their dps meter told them cs got 700more dps compared to da is full of kitten or cant test properly. If your going for damage and build properly to maintain fury with da hence use a rune of rage, cs line becomes irrelevant because you get about the same dps out of both, but a better burst out of da line thanks to mug.

(edited by Grimreaper.5370)

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

Listen here children.

I have done the math (integrals) and here is a rather useful information:

At 200% ferocity, adding 1% critical hit chance will increase on average 0.69% overall damage.

The more precision you have, the less overall damage you will gain from gaining precision.
Example: + 1% critical hit chance at 40% will give more overall damage than + 1% at 75%.

Example of application: superior sigil of accuracy (+ 7% crit chance) has on average 4,2% increased overall damage. Therefore, superior sigil of force (+ 5% damage) is better on average. If you are under 40% critical hit chance, accuracy is better.

Also, the more ferocity you have, the more precision will be valuable.

Other uselful piece of knowledge. At 50% crticial hit chance, adding 1% at ferocity will add 0.30% overall damage.

Conclusion: power > precision >>> ferocity.

the conclusion is already known. the problem is this
DA gives 10% dmg to target with condition and 20% dmg to target below 50% hp
CS gives about 40% crit dmg to target above 50% hp and 30% below 50% hp
now with DA build having in average 77% crit chance and CS having in average 95% crit chance who is doing more dmg in average

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Posted by: Urejt.5648

Urejt.5648

are writing a book? i promise it will not be bestseller

Yo Hooj Jest Pole

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

are writing a book? i promise it will not be bestseller

You sir (or ma’am), made my day.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Listen here children.

I have done the math (integrals) and here is a rather useful information:

At 200% ferocity, adding 1% critical hit chance will increase on average 0.69% overall damage.

The more precision you have, the less overall damage you will gain from gaining precision.
Example: + 1% critical hit chance at 40% will give more overall damage than + 1% at 75%.

Example of application: superior sigil of accuracy (+ 7% crit chance) has on average 4,2% increased overall damage. Therefore, superior sigil of force (+ 5% damage) is better on average. If you are under 40% critical hit chance, accuracy is better.

Also, the more ferocity you have, the more precision will be valuable.

Other uselful piece of knowledge. At 50% crticial hit chance, adding 1% at ferocity will add 0.30% overall damage.

Conclusion: power > precision >>> ferocity.

the conclusion is already known. the problem is this
DA gives 10% dmg to target with condition and 20% dmg to target below 50% hp
CS gives about 40% crit dmg to target above 50% hp and 30% below 50% hp
now with DA build having in average 77% crit chance and CS having in average 95% crit chance who is doing more dmg in average

When DA used to also grant upto 300 power, it is way better than CS and those dmg boost looks good and very effective, but not anymore. Hitting a crit boosts the dmg by at least 50% due to crit damage. Since the Power level for both DA and CS are now the same ever since DA lost that Power advantage, it comes down to which trait line can crit more often and which trait line significantly increases crit damage. The 30% damage boost from DA is not enough to compete to the amount of crit damage boosts that CS is getting.

The Ferocity difference already put CS 30% damage boost ahead of DA. That’s not even including all the conditional crit dmg bonus and might stacks that CS get in combat. I’ve personally used to run DA and based on my experience, CS has higher damage output.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

CS would absolutely perform better than DA in a P/P build against players who are new enough that they put out less counter-pressure than Nifhel’s duo of NPCs. Based on the game-play in your YouTube videos, this would appear to be your exact situation, Messiah.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

CS would absolutely perform better than DA in a P/P build against players who are new enough that they put out less counter-pressure than Nifhel’s duo of NPCs. Based on the game-play in your YouTube videos, this would appear to be your exact situation, Messiah.

we are not talking about the weapon rather the trait lines

p/p as weapon set is tricky to handle
i use it mainly in +1 and decap as 1 unload at the right time can put down any enemy from range
atm with all the block/reflect (mes,engi,ele,guard) its much harder to face them but i do have my moments when my team surprise i manage to come +1 fast kill and already at far decap it

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Posted by: Spartacus.5243

Spartacus.5243

I tested some stuff, it seems CS does do more damage than DA a lot of the time, at least with staff anyways. Not sure why, but higher numbers on my screen. So sorry if I came off as kitten y in the last post ^^

get awared SON! now follow my stream.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

i did several tests
used staff only
test: da trait 2,2,3 versus cs trait 1,2,1
used 50 intervals average on the first attack chain only
with vault i used 3 attacks and waited to regen initiatives

used just AA 50 times and vault 50 times
used light armor golem and marauder amulet friend

above 50% hp cs trait did 20%-25% more dmg
below 50% hp cs did 3%-8% more dmg

the difference were the crit chance above 50% hp as with cs always crit (maybe 1 attack didnt)
with DA when they crit the dmg was the same above 50% hp but less crit attack which drop the average
when below 50% hp DA did more dmg but again less crit chance drop the average

so if you lucky with your chain with DA can yield more dmg but again luck so more bursty lucky trait while with CS more sustain higher dmg unless you have weakness

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

i did several tests
used staff only
test: da trait 2,2,3 versus cs trait 1,2,1
used 50 intervals average on the first attack chain only
with vault i used 3 attacks and waited to regen initiatives

used just AA 50 times and vault 50 times
used light armor golem and marauder amulet friend

above 50% hp cs trait did 20%-25% more dmg
below 50% hp cs did 3%-8% more dmg

the difference were the crit chance above 50% hp as with cs always crit (maybe 1 attack didnt)
with DA when they crit the dmg was the same above 50% hp but less crit attack which drop the average
when below 50% hp DA did more dmg but again less crit chance drop the average

so if you lucky with your chain with DA can yield more dmg but again luck so more bursty lucky trait while with CS more sustain higher dmg unless you have weakness

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

@messiah.1908

Now do the same test but this time with CS 221 and popping signets as soon as the might buff wears off. Roughly a 90% might uptime.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Spartacus.5243

Spartacus.5243

@messiah.1908

Now do the same test but this time with CS 221 and popping signets as soon as the might buff wears off. Roughly a 90% might uptime.

repped. just lol @ unaware of OP post

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

I tested some stuff, it seems CS does do more damage than DA a lot of the time, at least with staff anyways. Not sure why, but higher numbers on my screen. So sorry if I came off as kitten y in the last post ^^

get awared SON! now follow my stream.

…..no. You’re still a bit of a prick.

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Don’t follow me, unless you enjoy being chased by angry men with sticks.
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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

The real question- you using revealed training in DA, or are you not? Because if not, you gotta take one non dps trait in CS as well. Only logical to even it out. Unless you wanna see in a standardized build who wins, in which case CS always wins.

DA- utility based damage. a heal, some heal reduction, damage reduction, and movement reduction along with a +20% finisher.
CS- damage, damage, damage.

I did kind of skim, but I saw everyone debating which line offered more raw dps… I probably totally missed the thread.

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

CS would absolutely perform better than DA in a P/P build against players who are new enough that they put out less counter-pressure than Nifhel’s duo of NPCs. Based on the game-play in your YouTube videos, this would appear to be your exact situation, Messiah.

we are not talking about the weapon rather the trait lines

p/p as weapon set is tricky to handle
i use it mainly in +1 and decap as 1 unload at the right time can put down any enemy from range
atm with all the block/reflect (mes,engi,ele,guard) its much harder to face them but i do have my moments when my team surprise i manage to come +1 fast kill and already at far decap it

Look, if I’m going to participate in this conversation, I’m going to need to keep this incredibly simple. Impact typically plays against players who are, for better or for worse, more experienced, deliberately practiced, and perhaps even more invested in the game than you currently are (or, at least, play like in your own videos). The nuances of the combat against the classes Impact will typically rotate toward to fight, particularly shatter Mesmers, condi Revenents, and other Thieves, present situations where the additional utility of DA is almost universally more optimal than CS (especially against other Thieves).

CS shines against opponents who react less quickly, utilize fewer of their dodges, don’t watch for opposing +1’s, and all in all are way more susceptible to immediately dying to the stronger opening burst of a CS build. These kinds of players cannot be found at or near NA’s tournament level while the players who necessitate utilities like panic strike, mug, and lotus training over more pure damage above 50% HP are the norm.

CS is, in short, a gimmick trait line in comparison to DA when playing GW2’s more practiced players. Those players are the ones to build towards beating when talking about either the BEST builds and the BEST trait lines. At your skill level, Messiah, you ought to be more concerned with learning from experienced players like Impact rather than debating against them (I am also sorry for how acidic and snide this may initially come off as – assuming you don’t appreciate the bluntness of it).

(edited by rennlc.7346)

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Posted by: Sadrien.3470

Sadrien.3470

if you master this build, thief would be meta.

check out my stream to see it in action.

www.twitch.tv/aesthetic_eraz

Problem with this is the damage on mug is greater than all the damage from the entire crit strikes line on a vault. And then you need to add delegates damage mods.

Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.

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Posted by: Sadrien.3470

Sadrien.3470

Max damage modifier: 1.5307 [DA[above 50% health)], 1.8368 [DA(below 50% health)], 1.5307 [CS(above 50% health)], 1.3915 [CS(below 50% health)]

You might want to recalculate since DA gets a +10% damage modifier regardless of targets health as long as the target has a condition. Thus the Mug damage above 50% health will have a 10% boost since the poison is applied prior to the Mug damage.

I already factored that in.
Exposed Weakness (1.1) * Staff Mastery (1.1) * Bound (1.1) * Lead Attacks (1.15) = 1.5307. The above 50% is with Executioner (1.2) * 1.5307 = 1.8368.

bruh. replace ‘’points for D/P’’ with ‘’points for staff’’

Astounding logic there. To pick one, let’s give points to staff for headshot. Headshot is of course a strength of staff. Very good.

Also i have tested the difference in dmg output enough. I see with my own eyes that CS sometimes gives me 10k vault with this build. and with DA max i have seen was 7k

I’ve landed 9-10k back stabs on cele reapers, 10k back stabs on warriors, 11.7k back stabs on marauder scrappers and been hit with 15k vaults. All with and by Deadly Arts. Although simply stating this out of context doesn’t mean much, just like it doesn’t when you do.

thats impossible m8. else I would have experienced that also. i dont even hit that much in WvW with foods etc

I get 17k backstabs in part assassins armor without executioner in WvW while running crit strikes. Obviously you are a r e not building correctly. And no, my gear is not ascended and I run life steal food not seaweed and use hardened stones.

Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

CS shines against opponents who react less quickly, utilize fewer of their dodges, don’t watch for opposing +1’s, and all in all are way more susceptible to immediately dying to the stronger opening burst of a CS build. These kinds of players cannot be found at or near NA’s tournament level while the players who necessitate utilities like panic strike, mug, and lotus training over more pure damage above 50% HP are the norm.

CS is, in short, a gimmick trait line in comparison to DA when playing GW2’s more practiced players. Those players are the ones to build towards beating when talking about either the BEST builds and the BEST trait lines. At your skill level, Messiah, you ought to be more concerned with learning from experienced players like Impact rather than debating against them (I am also sorry for how acidic and snide this may initially come off as – assuming you don’t appreciate the bluntness of it).

cant get it
you say 2 sec immobilize (which with most classes is 1 sec or even none) and mug which is 1.5k-2k dmg every 20 sec and 20% below 50% hp more dmg are utilities which not gimmick?
if enemy react slower he wont dodge the steal from a thief?? and if done fewer dodge wont get hit from executioner
again cant get it as you take the whole argument to a different place

the fact is the same, CS bring more dmg to the fight and with good hands can be better than DA . same experience thief can handle both DA and CS the same way but atthe end check the dmg log and you will see CS did more dmg

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

cant get it
you say 2 sec immobilize (which with most classes is 1 sec or even none) and mug which is 1.5k-2k dmg every 20 sec and 20% below 50% hp more dmg are utilities which not gimmick?
if enemy react slower he wont dodge the steal from a thief?? and if done fewer dodge wont get hit from executioner
again cant get it as you take the whole argument to a different place

the fact is the same, CS bring more dmg to the fight and with good hands can be better than DA . same experience thief can handle both DA and CS the same way but atthe end check the dmg log and you will see CS did more dmg

Messiah, your argument is a fantastic case for why CS can outperform DA in PvE. However, if critical damage were in fact the end-all be-all for an optimal Thief build in the current sPvP meta, we would all be running Berserker over Marauder. In your own videos, you are in fact running a Marauder amulet which seems to suggest you’re similarly aware that trading some damage for more utility can be more optimal over the course of multiple sPvP matches. There is a similar difference between DA and CS and that’s what you currently appear to be unaware of.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

cant get it
you say 2 sec immobilize (which with most classes is 1 sec or even none) and mug which is 1.5k-2k dmg every 20 sec and 20% below 50% hp more dmg are utilities which not gimmick?
if enemy react slower he wont dodge the steal from a thief?? and if done fewer dodge wont get hit from executioner
again cant get it as you take the whole argument to a different place

the fact is the same, CS bring more dmg to the fight and with good hands can be better than DA . same experience thief can handle both DA and CS the same way but atthe end check the dmg log and you will see CS did more dmg

Messiah, your argument is a fantastic case for why CS can outperform DA in PvE. However, if critical damage were in fact the end-all be-all for an optimal Thief build in the current sPvP meta, we would all be running Berserker over Marauder. In your own videos, you are in fact running a Marauder amulet which seems to suggest you’re similarly aware that trading some damage for more utility can be more optimal over the course of multiple sPvP matches. There is a similar difference between DA and CS and that’s what you currently appear to be unaware of.

again i see you taking the argument to a different place

the question which been ask is which trait line give better dmg and not which trait line is suitable for pvp atm
cs gives gives better dmg
now regarding preformance. zerker versus maraduer. atm thief has average dmg/sustain ratio. this is why even taking zerker wont better this ratio much. if the ratio was better you would see more zerker out there. thus anet wanna buff our dmg over sustain to push it more up. but still you see more average players screem for some sustain abilities (like boons… etc..)
regarding DA i really dont see much why ppl dont try CS more as more classes has some immunity to immobilize through cleanse reduce duration trait lines. and other can pull poison better than us and its easily cleansed. so to have 10% +20% dmg this it what you get from DA
while from CS you get perma fury and more dmg overall.
and dont forget other have more cc abilities thus if you combo strike with them your cc is not much needed as we dont very good in 1v1 anymore (so far)
but yes to have someone immobilize for 2 sec if he doesnt have cleanse or some kind of immunity is really helpful

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

It seems you’re suggesting I am committing the logical fallacy of “moving the goal posts” for the purpose of winning an argument rather than attempting to assist you and anyone else reading this thread about when, why and how certain trait lines may typically out-perform each other. If you presume my goal is to win a debate rather than assist, then you’re probably going to continue to assume I’m deliberately fudging facts in my attempt to win. As a result, it seems unlikely anything I say will be perceived as a possible truth rather than a lie in your mind.

In other words: As long as you think I’m attempting to defeat you, I cannot help you. If I cannot help you, then there are places I would prefer to be than in this conversation.

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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

Highest dps output is CS. Highest burst is DA/TR/X (or if you really wanna burst and are playing something that hits multiple times, e.g. unload or pistol whip or fist flurry- you play DA/SA/X…its just riskier). Agree to disagree yet?

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

Highest dps output is CS. Highest burst is DA/TR/X (or if you really wanna burst and are playing something that hits multiple times, e.g. unload or pistol whip or fist flurry- you play DA/SA/X…its just riskier). Agree to disagree yet?

with s/p i would take DA but take into account some of your burst PW will not crit
with p/p i would take CS
with d/p hard to tell for now but lets w8 for tomorrow

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

It seems you’re suggesting I am committing the logical fallacy of “moving the goal posts” for the purpose of winning an argument rather than attempting to assist you and anyone else reading this thread about when, why and how certain trait lines may typically out-perform each other. If you presume my goal is to win a debate rather than assist, then you’re probably going to continue to assume I’m deliberately fudging facts in my attempt to win. As a result, it seems unlikely anything I say will be perceived as a possible truth rather than a lie in your mind.

In other words: As long as you think I’m attempting to defeat you, I cannot help you. If I cannot help you, then there are places I would prefer to be than in this conversation.

i am not trying to defeat you and in most part i agree with you
IMO:
Q- which trait line gives the most dmg output
A – CS over DA
Q – which trait line would you take with you
A – depends on your gameplay and your group role

if you are 1v1 take DA for more poison, immobilize (if you lucky) and pressure below 50% hp
if you are team player, +1 and your team has some sort of cc/poison than i would take CS over DA

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

How about this:

If it’s PvE, take CS. If it’s PvP, take DA.

There’s so much talk about theorycraft of dps from these lines, it’s like people think this sort of stuff happens in a vacuum.

CS is weak in PvP for the same reason you take Air and Fire instead of Force sigil. Thieves excel because of burst damage in +1 encounters, not sustained dps in long fights.

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Posted by: Talek.6795

Talek.6795

I’am sorry for destroying that topic but is that the guy, who tried to advertise his stream using orng title and girl’s photo for attraction?

And are guys you srsly trying to chat with him?

Talék

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

Here’s a build I cooked up:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYWn0MBVmilOBOmCkmildCrbHMDyBzLwH4FcLAUbOQA-TZRBABAcIA24EAMz+DP8EAivMAA

Acrobatics and daredevil seem to have some redundancies but despite those dodge on vigor and extra movement speed in stealth seem strong while targets below 50% will have much tougher times recovering. The non-shadowstep skills are all about interrupts while I take critical strikes over deadly arts because of the extra crit chances. Vigor on dodge (sword 3 and staff 3 and 5 on top of the straight up dodges) will ensure you can always dodge but the build requires tight timing. I practiced dodging polymorph moa, point blank shot, and signet of bane against the practice NPCs since they’re hard hitting skills with subtle tells.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYWn0MBVmilOBOmCkmiFYCbOEWCbhdRhkwTQLBEAyAA-TZRBABbcCAmZ/h4LD8wTAAgDBAA

Is an alternative since it still has traits where you do extra damage below the health threshold and has the added benefit of mug. The healing seed has a cooldown so improvisation isn’t as good as it could be.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

I’am sorry for destroying that topic but is that the guy, who tried to advertise his stream using orng title and girl’s photo for attraction?

And are guys you srsly trying to chat with him?

Don’t apologize, lol. This topic has been a mess for a long time and yea, he’s pretty desperate for attention. The link to Sindrenerr’s stream was probably the best thing to come of it though.

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Posted by: Valairean.7183

Valairean.7183

Max damage modifier: 1.5307 [DA[above 50% health)], 1.8368 [DA(below 50% health)], 1.5307 [CS(above 50% health)], 1.3915 [CS(below 50% health)]

You might want to recalculate since DA gets a +10% damage modifier regardless of targets health as long as the target has a condition. Thus the Mug damage above 50% health will have a 10% boost since the poison is applied prior to the Mug damage.

I already factored that in.
Exposed Weakness (1.1) * Staff Mastery (1.1) * Bound (1.1) * Lead Attacks (1.15) = 1.5307. The above 50% is with Executioner (1.2) * 1.5307 = 1.8368.

bruh. replace ‘’points for D/P’’ with ‘’points for staff’’

Astounding logic there. To pick one, let’s give points to staff for headshot. Headshot is of course a strength of staff. Very good.

Also i have tested the difference in dmg output enough. I see with my own eyes that CS sometimes gives me 10k vault with this build. and with DA max i have seen was 7k

I’ve landed 9-10k back stabs on cele reapers, 10k back stabs on warriors, 11.7k back stabs on marauder scrappers and been hit with 15k vaults. All with and by Deadly Arts. Although simply stating this out of context doesn’t mean much, just like it doesn’t when you do.

thats impossible m8. else I would have experienced that also. i dont even hit that much in WvW with foods etc

I get 17k backstabs in part assassins armor without executioner in WvW while running crit strikes. Obviously you are a r e not building correctly. And no, my gear is not ascended and I run life steal food not seaweed and use hardened stones.

Sorry to say this man but you’re doing that against underlevels.

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

Highest dps output is CS. Highest burst is DA/TR/X (or if you really wanna burst and are playing something that hits multiple times, e.g. unload or pistol whip or fist flurry- you play DA/SA/X…its just riskier). Agree to disagree yet?

That’s about right. Spartacus is playing a staff build, so it probably makes more sense dps-wise to play CS, since staff is more about team fights than its competitor d/p. The only problem I would have personally is that I have trouble landing staff attacks without Panic Strike, but I pretty much only play d/p and am terrible at staff, so don’t take my word for it.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

CS can burst harder than DA including Mug, although it’s extremely marginal (like < 5%), and this implies the target is above 50% HP, otherwise Executioner will cause a better increase in damage.

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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

Deceiver- Yes it can, but its based on multiple hits or “Dps”. In a backstab oriented burst, you want DA- its straightforward and applies damage. In a staff build where you want to barrage someone til they die (or pistol/pistol or sword/pistol) you would want CS.

At least thats where my opinion sits. I’m parsing DA/TR/SA and CS/TR/SA atm, and so far DA/TR/SA is parsing far higher, far quicker. But then again, its a cheeky combo so targets are below 50% on engage.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Not true. CS on a given hit will hit harder than what DA offers when the target is above 50% health in all circumstances. Mug is what makes DA have competitive damage above 50%, and DA exceeds CS only when the target is lower than the damage due to Executioner. You’re bursting for the same damage only because Mug is allowing for it to happen.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Not true. CS on a given hit will hit harder than what DA offers when the target is above 50% health in all circumstances. Mug is what makes DA have competitive damage above 50%, and DA exceeds CS only when the target is lower than the damage due to Executioner. You’re bursting for the same damage only because Mug is allowing for it to happen.

In addition, in any given fights, the target is above 50% longer than they are at lower than 50%, thus CS grants a better benefit than DA. However, against a bunker, this target happen to last longer below 50% than they are at above 50%, thus DA grants better benefit than CS. Since Thief is not supposed to engage any bunker, it’s not ideal to take DA.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

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Posted by: Spartacus.5243

Spartacus.5243

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

Just lol @ taking executioner when running DA. improvisation is what makes DA good. so without executioner CS is more than just marginally better in burst

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

Just lol @ taking executioner when running DA. improvisation is what makes DA good. so without executioner CS is more than just marginally better in burst

I have to agree. When I take DA, I go for Improv rather than Exec.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Dristig.9678

Dristig.9678

So is there a new build for post patch?

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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

Just lol @ taking executioner when running DA. improvisation is what makes DA good. so without executioner CS is more than just marginally better in burst

I have to agree. When I take DA, I go for Improv rather than Exec.

My highest ability cooldown is 32 seconds. I don’t take Improv XD.

Worst Thief in the world, yes I am.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

Just lol @ taking executioner when running DA. improvisation is what makes DA good. so without executioner CS is more than just marginally better in burst

I have to agree. When I take DA, I go for Improv rather than Exec.

My highest ability cooldown is 32 seconds. I don’t take Improv XD.

The double use of stolen item is what makes a difference when fighting any class. The ability CD reset is trivial.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

By FAR the Best Thief build VIABLE.

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Posted by: Spartacus.5243

Spartacus.5243

I’d argue DA is better overall due to similar damage and the control and healing it offers. On steal, you get heal cut + weakness + damage + self-heal, with utility on Panic Strike and bonus damage on executioner for the +1 role better.

CS is definitely a worse trait line. That said, when talking strictly burst damage output potential, CS > DA, but again, only marginally so.

Just lol @ taking executioner when running DA. improvisation is what makes DA good. so without executioner CS is more than just marginally better in burst

I have to agree. When I take DA, I go for Improv rather than Exec.

My highest ability cooldown is 32 seconds. I don’t take Improv XD.

The double use of stolen item is what makes a difference when fighting any class. The ability CD reset is trivial.

repped

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Posted by: Spartacus.5243

Spartacus.5243

ive got a d/p build also, let me know if you want it

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Posted by: Gwaihir.1745

Gwaihir.1745

Saying “by far the best” followed by “viable” is not sense of making bass ackwards.

Grammatical errors subject to whim.

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Posted by: Spartacus.5243

Spartacus.5243

Saying “by far the best” followed by “viable” is not sense of making bass ackwards.

Grammatical errors subject to whim.

you must be fun at parties

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