Guild Wars 2

So, could someone explain to me what the number over the Bleed icon means? I understand that if someone stands on a caltrop, then they suffer Bleed damage of 30 for over 3 seconds. Is this two stacks of that at once? So would they suffer for 30 over 3 seconds x 2? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just like to be sure of everything =/

If that is the case, then why make it 30 × 2? Why not just 60?

Also, does anyone know how often/when the caltrops take effect? Is it when the enemy stands on one of the visual caltrops, or is it step based or something?

Lots of, possibly stupid, questions, but thanks to anyone who reads/helps =)

It means two stacks of bleeding are applied. Condition damage is a function of your condition damage modifier and so is not tied directly to the skill. With your character at this level you do 5 damage per bleed stack per second.

For example, my character right now (level 80) shows Caltrops with the same icon, 2 stacks, 3 seconds, 667 damage. And the D/D Deathblossom is 3 stacks, 10 seconds, 3333 damage. In both cases it comes to 111 damage per stack per second.

Uhm doesn’t that just mean the effect lasts for 3 × 2 = 6 seconds?! :O

Qaelyn.7612:

It means two stacks of bleeding are applied. Condition damage is a function of your condition damage modifier and so is not tied directly to the skill. With your character at this level you do 5 damage per bleed stack per second.

For example, my character right now (level 80) shows Caltrops with the same icon, 2 stacks, 3 seconds, 667 damage. And the D/D Deathblossom is 3 stacks, 10 seconds, 3333 damage. In both cases it comes to 111 damage per stack per second.

So why two stacks as oppose to one stack, but twice as stong? Is it to do with the condition system? E.G. It’s more effective to have multiple weaker stacks so then enemies find it harder to remove?

Btw, that’s pretty sweet damage, can’t wait till I get there

And thanks.

Well it means you do the damage a lot faster, obviously. The drawback is that there’s a hard limit of 25 stacks per condition (for reasons that are constantly debated) so in a big fight with lots of players, condition damage can become ineffective quite quickly.

Bleeding is a straight damaging condition, it doesn’t impede movement. Note that there are some conditions that stack intensity (like bleed) and others that stack duration (they don’t get stronger, they just last longer).

It’s all covered pretty well on the wiki.

The damage of a single bleed stack is always the same no matter which ability it comes from. So if an ability is supposed to cause a stronger bleed it has to apply more stacks. Thats a design decision – could have been implemented like you suggested aswell but thats not the case.

WolfiKurisu.6894:

So why two stacks as oppose to one stack, but twice as stong?

Different people apply different strength stacks, with different durations. The result is similar to what you describe, just easier to talk about. There’s also a set maximum number of stacks then can be applied to a target

WolfiKurisu.6894:

If that is the case, then why make it 30 × 2? Why not just 60?

Actually you are dealing 15 bleed dmg per second per stack, so the tool tip already added them together to show 30 bleed damage to represent 2 stacks.

You can verify your bleed damage per second by looking at Vital Shot (pistol #1).

Also, does anyone know how often/when the caltrops take effect? Is it when the enemy stands on one of the visual caltrops, or is it step based or something?

As long as they stay inside the AoE circle, moving or not, they will take damage every tick. And according to Wiki, it ticks every second.

Slightly off-topic, but it always felt to me that Caltrops were a little too strong relative to other skills, making it operate almost as a crutch, at least in PvE. It almost seems like making it just do 1 stack while buffing weapon skill coefficients would make the class feel better overall.

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

Einlanzer.1627:

Slightly off-topic, but it always felt to me that Caltrops were a little too strong relative to other skills, making it operate almost as a crutch, at least in PvE. It almost seems like making it just do 1 stack while buffing weapon skill coefficients would make the class feel better overall.

No need to fix what’s not broken.

Besides, regardless on what we feel, Anet doesn’t care.

Elthurien.8356:

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I’m curious why they didn’t.

Elthurien.8356:

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

The thing about Torment is that, it’s an effect that is not physical unlike Bleed, Poison, and Burning. I believe this is the reason why Hide in Shadow doesn’t remove Torment because it’s more like an illusion or mental effect than physical.

So having Torment in Caltrops just doesn’t make sense unless of course we coat the Caltrops with hallucinogen venom to induce Tormenting images to the victim.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Elthurien.8356:

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

The thing about Torment is that, it’s an effect that is not physical unlike Bleed, Poison, and Burning. I believe this is the reason why Hide in Shadow doesn’t remove Torment because it’s more like an illusion or mental effect than physical.

So having Torment in Caltrops just doesn’t make sense unless of course we coat the Caltrops with hallucinogen venom to induce Tormenting images to the victim.

I was about to remark about that in my post above, but decided against it. That’s obviously how Anet conceptualized it, but it doesn’t really need to be that way really.

Einlanzer.1627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Elthurien.8356:

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

The thing about Torment is that, it’s an effect that is not physical unlike Bleed, Poison, and Burning. I believe this is the reason why Hide in Shadow doesn’t remove Torment because it’s more like an illusion or mental effect than physical.

So having Torment in Caltrops just doesn’t make sense unless of course we coat the Caltrops with hallucinogen venom to induce Tormenting images to the victim.

I was about to remark about that in my post above, but decided against it. That’s obviously how Anet conceptualized it, but it doesn’t really need to be that way really.

Well in GW1 term, Torment is a Hex rather than a condition. Now begs the question on why did they choose to remove hex only to add Torment later?

Well, they already have confusion (added after release I think), which is more a hex then a condition.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Elthurien.8356:

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

The thing about Torment is that, it’s an effect that is not physical unlike Bleed, Poison, and Burning. I believe this is the reason why Hide in Shadow doesn’t remove Torment because it’s more like an illusion or mental effect than physical.

So having Torment in Caltrops just doesn’t make sense unless of course we coat the Caltrops with hallucinogen venom to induce Tormenting images to the victim.

Yeah I understand that is what they had in mind with the hallucination, but if you look at how torment actually works, it actually makes more sense (to me at least) that torment is just a painful wound that hurts more and does more damage when you move. There is so many possibilities for torment to be used in a fantasy setting, from open wounds that get worse with movement (such as that caused by caltrops), to fractured bones, sprained ankles, haemotoxins, spells or hexes that wither or twist limbs.

Elthurien.8356:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Elthurien.8356:

I really think Caltrops should have been updated when Torment was introduced to the game. Instead of a double bleed stack it should do one bleed and one torment to simulate how painful it is to continue running around with shards of steel embedded in your foot.

The thing about Torment is that, it’s an effect that is not physical unlike Bleed, Poison, and Burning. I believe this is the reason why Hide in Shadow doesn’t remove Torment because it’s more like an illusion or mental effect than physical.

So having Torment in Caltrops just doesn’t make sense unless of course we coat the Caltrops with hallucinogen venom to induce Tormenting images to the victim.

Yeah I understand that is what they had in mind with the hallucination, but if you look at how torment actually works, it actually makes more sense (to me at least) that torment is just a painful wound that hurts more and does more damage when you move. There is so many possibilities for torment to be used in a fantasy setting, from open wounds that get worse with movement (such as that caused by caltrops), to fractured bones, sprained ankles, haemotoxins, spells or hexes that wither or twist limbs.

It would require a really deep wound to cause more damage when moving and Caltrops doesn’t deal deep wounds. Actually, poison should deal more damage when moving because it causes the poison to travel faster in the blood steam and will then start damaging your organs. Like I said, unless Caltrops has some kind of venom, the Torment mechanics doesn’t make sense.