Guild Wars 2

The war…had something like axe/shield and gs, not pure defense, pretty high damage, was smart and avoided BP, did so much damage with every hit that connected (like 2-3k each hit) while using healing signet for…600hp/sec+ heals?…that basically there was no way for me to do enough damage to him to bring him down without me going down before him due to being close range. I doubt a p/d combo would have been any better.

I tried d/d, d/p, s/d, s/p, all same results basically. Each hit I didn’t dodge was really nasty and forced me to back off. But he still took like 40 hits for me to down from full life…

Maybe if I kept at it I might have won ONCE. I had him low a few times but I had nothing left at those points…

The reality is, warrior is too strong for thief because thief lacks the damage output to balance the scales. I could try 1000% harder and lose to that war no matter what. I could be a better player and lose to that war over and over again. All he ever had to do was spam..1…2..3..4..5…etc., swap weapons, spam 1..2…3.4..5…repeat. Easymode.

Now that they’re going to nerf thief damage by a pretty huge amount, the massive HP pool of warriors and necros will be that much more OP/imbalanced vs thief…

They arent just nerfing thief damage, they are nerfing crit damage period. And yes, it seems warriors are now hard to beat with regular dagger sets, even with DP sometimes. It isnt that we lack dmg output, its that they can do our damage and outlast us so much longer. In fact, they have a much higher sustain than us. Ive seen the axe autoattack hit for like 3k each swing. It was ridiculous, and infuriating. Ridiculously infuriating. But its the eviscerate thatll get you if you are not careful. My main gripe though is that when you get them low they run and there isnt a thing you can do about it. Most of the time if you chase them theyll turn around and open up the hurt.

you obviously need a better build and better skills because other thieves wreck everything
ask snuffles, triggerless, or yishis for help

It may seem weird, but D/X autoattack is your best friend against HS warriors. You really need to keep the poison up as best as you can. For the most part I prefer D/D for the extra damage/pressure. Blind on stealth is pretty much requisite, and you need to drop stealth as soon as you enter it because that time off where you’re regening health in stealth, he’s out-regening you, which is partly why I don’t take that trait anymore. The one more dodge from going 0/30/25/15/0 instead of 0/30/30/10/0 can equal about 6 seconds in stealth if you dodge as little as a 2k hit.

dont listen to maugetarr, no regen in stealth? okay might as well go full zerker

Malforo.6391:

dont listen to maugetarr, no regen in stealth? okay might as well go full zerker

Well let’s look at it this way. Without healing power, you’re going to regen about 330hps while in stealth. The warrior is going to regen at a minimum around 397hps in that same time frame. If you stay in stealth for 3 seconds, that means you heal for 1k (half of an auto attack by the description from OP…. oh boy!) And he heals for 1.2 k while keeping pressure up on you. Instead, you could build about 15-16k health into your build and around 2400 armor to keep the pressure and poison up on the warrior which is benefiting more from your stealth than you are. I’ll say again, that 1 dodge more is worth 6-9 of stealth seconds based on the description of what the warrior was hitting for. That’s 6-9 seconds of no pressure on the warrior to cover what 1 extra dodge could have done.

There is a huge difference between not picking up the regen trait and going full zerk.

But a dodge avoids only one or two attacks which you also are not dealing…and as soon as the dodge is over you’re right where he can see you and slam you.

Warrior is way too good at damage and condi reduction while keeping high power and pressure. Thief can’t hit hard AND survive like warrior can, and thief can’t beat this kind of profession most times because the tools just aren’t there (doing damage without taking damage and while being mobile instead of stuck in one place).

Before you mention black powder again, it was basically worthless because he just kept outside bp radius and always in range of me. That’s when he wasn’t immune to blind.

Building 15-16k health + 2400 armor in a thief = won’t be able to do enough damage to kill ANY warrior using healing signet. As soon as you drop crit or precision you destroy your damage output and make it so much easier for warrior to out-sustain you. This means you’re adjusting your stats in exactly the WRONG direction: In order to beat them you have to kill them FAST before they can do enough damage. They will ALWAYS recover faster and better than you and last longer, so you have to make the fight as short as possible.

And yes when they get low they ALWAYS run just long enough to regen way more than they deserve to.

Form.8741:

But a dodge avoids only one or two attacks which you also are not dealing…and as soon as the dodge is over you’re right where he can see you and slam you.

Warrior is way too good at damage and condi reduction while keeping high power and pressure. Thief can’t hit hard AND survive like warrior can, and thief can’t beat this kind of profession most times because the tools just aren’t there (doing damage without taking damage and while being mobile instead of stuck in one place).

Before you mention black powder again, it was basically worthless because he just kept outside bp radius and always in range of me. That’s when he wasn’t immune to blind.

Building 15-16k health + 2400 armor in a thief = won’t be able to do enough damage to kill ANY warrior using healing signet. As soon as you drop crit or precision you destroy your damage output and make it so much easier for warrior to out-sustain you. This means you’re adjusting your stats in exactly the WRONG direction: In order to beat them you have to kill them FAST before they can do enough damage. They will ALWAYS recover faster and better than you and last longer, so you have to make the fight as short as possible.

And yes when they get low they ALWAYS run just long enough to regen way more than they deserve to.

Replacing 3 pieces of armor with soldier’s armor to get those stats isn’t exactly sacrificing much. Everything else is zerk. Those choices were made based on the “building a better D/D thief” thread which optimizes damage versus survivability.

I’ll repeat my earlier point though: yes dodge only avoids 1-2 attacks, but that’s 3-6k damage. If you waited for that to regen in stealth that would be 9-18 seconds. I’ll take my faster endurance regeneration over that timeframe because if you pair it with D/X auto, you get almost as good of regeneration as perma-vigor in addition to reducing the heal with poison (4 seconds every 2 seconds). In the short term (and even in the long term), the endurance regen wins out in terms of survivability, at least against a class with bigger distinct hits (rather than say a condi build).

Yeah Axe + Shield + Greatsword + Berserker gear + Hambow traits is pretty vicious.

I think I fought such a Warrior for like 5 minutes once until I found a gap to burst him down. But really it was pure luck and could have gone either way.

Greatsword allows them to kite any potential burst damage they might face and with all the passive healing constantly ticking away. Shortbow is a waste of time since the auto-attack does less damage than the Warrior heals per second.

And then there’s the 11k Eviscerates you have to watch out for, preferably setup with a Shield Bash.

I don’t see how anything but D/P would prevail against them (expect P/D maybe).

Form.8741:

The reality is, warrior is too strong for thief because thief lacks the damage output to balance the scales. I could try 1000% harder and lose to that war no matter what. I could be a better player and lose to that war over and over again. All he ever had to do was spam..1…2..3..4..5…etc., swap weapons, spam 1..2…3.4..5…repeat. Easymode.

Are you serious? Warrior has 5 skills, most thieves only use 2. Who is really trying to play the easy mode class?

RedSpectrum.1975:

They arent just nerfing thief damage, they are nerfing crit damage period. And yes, it seems warriors are now hard to beat with regular dagger sets, even with DP sometimes. It isnt that we lack dmg output, its that they can do our damage and outlast us so much longer. In fact, they have a much higher sustain than us. Ive seen the axe autoattack hit for like 3k each swing. It was ridiculous, and infuriating. Ridiculously infuriating. But its the eviscerate thatll get you if you are not careful. My main gripe though is that when you get them low they run and there isnt a thing you can do about it. Most of the time if you chase them theyll turn around and open up the hurt.

so ur saying they can run well….dmg well…sustain well…drop condis well…hit extremely high and high insane defense/healing capabilities.

ok ….. see this is the problem. not one single aspect of warrior is OP by itself. and anet lookst at things like that as well as warriors. but you put them all together its soooo OP. not one other class can compare as warriors can add all these together at the same time.!

p/d doesn’t touch wars or bunk rangers, the damage isn’t enough to tick them under 90% health at any time even with the “bursts” they have, and war always goes -%condi duration food plus immunity to various conditions/damage/etc…

Form.8741:

p/d doesn’t touch wars or bunk rangers, the damage isn’t enough to tick them under 90% health at any time even with the “bursts” they have, and war always goes -%condi duration food plus immunity to various conditions/damage/etc…

i stopped running p/d and i was realll realllllllly good at it. i did this bc of 1 trait that seems a lil OP.

i wont say what it is or what class. i want those who donthear about it to really think about it.

“take no conditions or condition dmg under 25% HP”

basically only direct dmg can kill you. wish my class had this although there would be such outrage.

Runty Choir.4893:

Form.8741:

The reality is, warrior is too strong for thief because thief lacks the damage output to balance the scales. I could try 1000% harder and lose to that war no matter what. I could be a better player and lose to that war over and over again. All he ever had to do was spam..1…2..3..4..5…etc., swap weapons, spam 1..2…3.4..5…repeat. Easymode.

Are you serious? Warrior has 5 skills, most thieves only use 2. Who is really trying to play the easy mode class?

Guys I found another one

Travlane.5948:

so ur saying they can run well….dmg well…sustain well…drop condis well…hit extremely high and high insane defense/healing capabilities.

ok ….. see this is the problem. not one single aspect of warrior is OP by itself. and anet lookst at things like that as well as warriors. but you put them all together its soooo OP. not one other class can compare as warriors can add all these together at the same time.!

Well I’m not going to say they are in the realm of 30/30/30/30/30 but yes, they have a higher sustained damage, better toughness, great healing thats passive mind you , Cleansing Ire and food for condi removal, and let’s be real here. At least we have the decency to disappear before we run. They just flat out run, a large distance and all you can do is watch them. See we hit hard in bursts. They hit hard in bursts and then can keep hitting hard. My experiences with a warrior, if you’re fighting him and you find the opening to unleash on him, and he still has a good amount of health left after you’ve used like two of your utilities, its not worth it. I once saw an axe warrior auto attack my thieves guild away after I had just summoned them (hence when I’ve seen the AA do 3k damage per swing)

In Conclusion: The warrior is the best class. There other classes in the game solely to compare them to the warrior.

This is my warrior… in the OS(no stacks, no guard buffs, no bloodlust). Only food and 5 might stacks from the signet. I feel so dirty when fighting 1v1 on him…

Pavel.8531:

This is my warrior… in the OS(no stacks, no guard buffs, no bloodlust). Only food and 5 might stacks from the signet. I feel so dirty when fighting 1v1 on him…

My God man!! That build is OP, I mean look at that magic find

This kind of reminds me of World of Roguecraft.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Runty Choir.4893:

Form.8741:

The reality is, warrior is too strong for thief because thief lacks the damage output to balance the scales. I could try 1000% harder and lose to that war no matter what. I could be a better player and lose to that war over and over again. All he ever had to do was spam..1…2..3..4..5…etc., swap weapons, spam 1..2…3.4..5…repeat. Easymode.

Are you serious? Warrior has 5 skills, most thieves only use 2. Who is really trying to play the easy mode class?

Guys I found another one

Travlane.5948:

so ur saying they can run well….dmg well…sustain well…drop condis well…hit extremely high and high insane defense/healing capabilities.

ok ….. see this is the problem. not one single aspect of warrior is OP by itself. and anet lookst at things like that as well as warriors. but you put them all together its soooo OP. not one other class can compare as warriors can add all these together at the same time.!

Well I’m not going to say they are in the realm of 30/30/30/30/30 but yes, they have a higher sustained damage, better toughness, great healing thats passive mind you , Cleansing Ire and food for condi removal, and let’s be real here. At least we have the decency to disappear before we run. They just flat out run, a large distance and all you can do is watch them. See we hit hard in bursts. They hit hard in bursts and then can keep hitting hard. My experiences with a warrior, if you’re fighting him and you find the opening to unleash on him, and he still has a good amount of health left after you’ve used like two of your utilities, its not worth it. I once saw an axe warrior auto attack my thieves guild away after I had just summoned them (hence when I’ve seen the AA do 3k damage per swing)

In Conclusion: The warrior is the best class. There other classes in the game solely to compare them to the warrior.

Well said bro.

heres another reality to add to your comments

lets compare thief heal HIDE IN SHADOWS to HEALING SIGNET on warrior

heal per sec on healing signet 407hp….no cooldown…its a constant.

hide in shadows is 30 sec cooldown and heals for 5800 with 30 in SA.

now to compare them you find outhow much each canheal in the same amount of time. but heres where most get it wrong. u dont do it per 30 secs. the thief heal is NOT constant therefor its not used right away. its not used until about 10-15 (call it 12 for a fair number) seconds into battle. thus its only 5800 per 42s (30cooldown +12seconds into battle).

so letslook at it.

you get about 12k hp in 30 secs from HS (great bc of high hp high toughness/armor it actually happens and works well. would not work well on a 10.8k hp thief as they have low toughn ess/armor too.

thief is about 138HPS (5800/42) or 4140 per 30 secs.

u can look at it in the sense warrior gets ANOTHER 3200 if he pops it… for a total of 15.2k per 30 sec period. thats alot.

no matter how ulook at it that skill is about 30% too strong. should upthe heal on active about 1300 hp and drop the passive by 30%

On top of that…warrior takes a lot less total damage than thief does (armor usually significantly higher). So the heal from heal signet has a greater value than the heal from any thief heal.

Yea good point, also the amount of invisibility Warrior has is game changing. Oh no thats thieves. Literally the thing you all seem to forget. Yea we have much better stat balance but you can just go invis and drop massive dps spikes. Sadly most thieves are only good for dropping noobs so OP obviously just met a warrior who wasn’t a kitten .

Runty Choir.4893:

Yea good point, also the amount of invisibility Warrior has is game changing. Oh no thats thieves. Literally the thing you all seem to forget. Yea we have much better stat balance but you can just go invis and drop massive dps spikes. Sadly most thieves are only good for dropping noobs so OP obviously just met a warrior who wasn’t a kitten .

Invis, then drop massive dps spikes. Then what after we are revealed? At least a warrior can do massive dps bursts no matter what side they are facing, and then keep doing massive damage. On top of other good stats.

Here are two essential problems with thief vs warrior:

1. Thief is unable to do enough ranged damage, no matter the circumstances, to actually tick down a warrior’s health if they use healing signet and 95% of viable warrior builds. This forces thief to be in melee range.

2. Warrior has tons of sustain damage and sustain life, with higher armor, never-think-about-it autohealing, condition damage reduction/immunity and physical damage immunity in both skill and trait forms, so there is almost no conceivable way for a thief – in melee range, which is where it needs to be – to do enough damage to down a decent warrior before the opposite happens.

The result is: All thieves MUST fight melee to have a chance to beat a warrior (just like all thieves must fight a bunk ranger melee EVER because their heals and defense are a similar grade of absurdity, BUT they have to sacrifice a lot of damage and be traited mostly just for that unlike warrior), but any warrior can easily outsustain a thief because thief damage is negated by a huge number of built-in defense systems while warrior damage comes through anytime blind is not active (and most of the time blind is either being negated or only good for one in every 3-4 hits).

The system is as follows:

Thief = evade skills (sword) usable every 1-2 seconds (until init runs out after 2-3 consecutive uses) plus dodges, no damage negation (stealth does not count), blinds which are largely ineffective vs a profession that excels at condition removal and uses -%condition duration. Smaller HP pool, less defense, active healing that leads to more non-attack time.

Warrior = Dodges, plus trait physical damage immunity, plus skill physical damage immunity, plus passive healing 400-800hp/sec, plus higher armor, plus MUCH larger hp pool, plus no attack downtime since heal is passive, plus fast condition removal.

Result = warrior is MUCH better for 1v1 than thief. If a warrior dies from 2 hits by a thief…then the thief has ascended gear and 15+ stacks of might plus pure glass build and the warrior is an underlevel with REALLY crappy armor.

1. Dogged march only works on movement impeding conditions.
2. condition duration foods and runes are available to every profession
3. thief mainhand dagger has built in 4 second poison on third strike, and it doesn’t require initiative.
4. edure pain has a 4 second duration on a 60CD, 5 with sure-footed
5. defy pain only activates at 25% threshold
6. Warrior is soldier class, thief is adventurer, the difference in base defense is about 13%
7. thief has poison field on shortbow, and it doesn’t reveal when fired from stealth.
8. thief’s active heals can provide an evade while curing certain conditions or provide set up for another attack.
9. warrior has healing and toughness paired as a trait line, while thief have precision and critical damage. with 30 points, warriors can substantially increase their defense, while with the same points, thieves can increase their damage.
10. warriors are highly mobile
11. thieves can hide in plain sight
12. with shadow’s imbrace thieves can passively remove their conditions. 1 condition every three seconds while in stealth. stealth is essentially a condi removal on a 4 sec cd.

Playing thief takes brains and practice. They have a lot of tools at their disposal and knowing to use them takes experience.

Playing warrior is also a bit tricky because there are so many build possibilities. For instance, a build that’s good against thieves could get wrecked by engineers

I guess the important thing is that you don’t have to win every battle. Guildwars is just a game.

can i just say when i played warrior for the first time i put 2 engery sigils up and had a -4 swap time. idk that seems pretty strong and OP itselftoo? no?

Warriors are frustrating. They’re rarely worth fighting unless I like dancing around for five minutes while neither of us dies.

Do not bother with 1v1 against warriors. You will never kill a warrior who does not screw up big time and uses a decent build 1v1 as a thief, it will end in a stalemate at best.

Same goes for engineers.

There is nothing you can do about it move along.

Travlane.5948:

can i just say when i played warrior for the first time i put 2 engery sigils up and had a -4 swap time. idk that seems pretty strong and OP itselftoo? no?

Those energy sigils have an internal cooldown of 9 seconds, so they don’t activate more often than they do for any other class.

Thiefs have good tools to deal with that warrior. You can keep poison on warrior almost all the time with dager autoattack. (with that you can reduce all the warrior regeneration sources by a great amount plus the damage poison does). You can blind him on stealth (gives you more chance to do a backstab + poison him and then stealth again). Shortbow alow you to poison him and you have a blast on SB 2 to reduce their damage output (weakness).

Whether this was about you fighting a warrior in spvp or in Wv3, (I did not look extensively), as a thief if you play pistol offhand and steal to this warrior drop your black powder then use the stolen ability you blind spam like crazy the only way he can counter is with berserker stance, so logic has it wait until he blows berserker stance then whirling axe+smoke field= blinding bolt and after this keep on the pressure. I would open up a fight always with a HS warrior with a choking gas from shortbow then the most important part is make sure you actually land the steal. This is my thought process on the fight, this is how i beat all warriors. Goodluck in the future.

“Another warrior I couldn’t beat”
Lol you already lost the argument.
But seriously warriors are fairly easy to fight, since a lot of them have little to no skill. Even against a fairly skilled warrior I can still kill them. U just got to keep blinds, poison, and pressure on them. They’re fairly easy fights for a thief.

ITT: A thief actually complains about another class being able to run away when they get low health.

Oozo.7856:

ITT: A thief actually complains about another class being able to run away when they get low health.

Shoo shoo, back to the necromancer forums for you Oozo. Bad Oozo.

Pavel.8531:

This is my warrior... in the OS(no stacks, no guard buffs, no bloodlust). Only food and 5 might stacks from the signet. I feel so dirty when fighting 1v1 on him...

I think you can get a better balance of stats than that, here is mine with no stacks, no guard buffs and no bloodlust. Yea its pretty crazy the stats you can reach with a warrior