Guild Wars 2

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

Yeah…while the 10 seconds are somewhat excessive I agree that Swiftness just makes more sense than the ominous “50% speed increase”….which apparently isn’t 50% anyway but rather 33%…which is exactly what Swiftness grants.

The reason why they probably didn’t make it Swiftness is because as a boon it is prone to modificators like “boon duration” .

That in turn might result in Thieves having quasi “perma-Swiftness”, which while nice, goes against the “temporary boost” nature of boons.

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah…while the 10 seconds are somewhat excessive I agree that Swiftness just makes more sense than the ominous “50% speed increase”….which apparently isn’t 50% anyway but rather 33%…which is exactly what Swiftness grants.

The reason why they probably didn’t make it Swiftness is because as a boon it is prone to modificators like “boon duration” .

That in turn might result in Thieves having quasi “perma-Swiftness”, which while nice, goes against the “temporary boost” nature of boons.

You mean “boon duration” would actually matter for us like it does other classes? Le gasp!

I mean, getting boons from our boon tree that increases boon duration and claims to be acrobatics.

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah…while the 10 seconds are somewhat excessive I agree that Swiftness just makes more sense than the ominous “50% speed increase”….which apparently isn’t 50% anyway but rather 33%…which is exactly what Swiftness grants.

The reason why they probably didn’t make it Swiftness is because as a boon it is prone to modificators like “boon duration” .

That in turn might result in Thieves having quasi “perma-Swiftness”, which while nice, goes against the “temporary boost” nature of boons.

You mean like what’s in my picture?

Try guess what balanced class achieved that (all by itself, not through boons from other players/objects).

Kurow.6973:

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah…while the 10 seconds are somewhat excessive I agree that Swiftness just makes more sense than the ominous “50% speed increase”….which apparently isn’t 50% anyway but rather 33%…which is exactly what Swiftness grants.

The reason why they probably didn’t make it Swiftness is because as a boon it is prone to modificators like “boon duration” .

That in turn might result in Thieves having quasi “perma-Swiftness”, which while nice, goes against the “temporary boost” nature of boons.

You mean like what’s in my picture?

Try guess what balanced class achieved that (all by itself, not through boons from other players/objects).

I thought they patched it so boons could not go over 1 minute, my Warrior can get 1 min of swiftness, but if he uses anything else, it will just go 1 minute again.

There is still one arguable advantage of current FS. If it’s not a boon, it can’t be ripped or inverted like one. Although, considering the 5 point minor in Acrobatics, Daecollo’s suggestion could work … it’s a tricky situation, and both concepts have ups and downs.

Advent.6193:

There is still one arguable advantage of current FS. If it’s not a boon, it can’t be ripped or inverted like one. Although, considering the 5 point minor in Acrobatics, Daecollo’s suggestion could work … it’s a tricky situation, and both concepts have ups and downs.

even if it was a boon, how could they rip it from us immediately if we are invisible?

But then you wouldn’t be able to travel the map at super speed by C/Ding cute little bunnies.

I think that if Fleet Shadows gave ____ duration swiftness then it would need to be in a higher tier. It would be extremely powerful for the sole reason that it would free up the utility slot taken by SoS.

However I am all for more build diversity, so me likey. The fact that it will encourage more stealth spam builds leads me to think that the change would be an unlikely one.

Daecollo.9578:

Advent.6193:

There is still one arguable advantage of current FS. If it’s not a boon, it can’t be ripped or inverted like one. Although, considering the 5 point minor in Acrobatics, Daecollo’s suggestion could work … it’s a tricky situation, and both concepts have ups and downs.

even if it was a boon, how could they rip it from us immediately if we are invisible?

A couple of ways come to mind. I main Mesmer, and a well-placed Null Field’d nuke that boon right fast. There’s also the Necro Well that inverts boons into conditions.
That one’s get a guy if he’s trying to cloak n’ run, or if targeted correctly with the trait that allows for ground-targeted wells.

Also, as for Sarrow’s comment: I definately agree. Although, it’d be interesting to see.

Sarrow.2785:

But then you wouldn’t be able to travel the map at super speed by C/Ding cute little bunnies.

I think that if Fleet Shadows gave ____ duration swiftness then it would need to be in a higher tier. It would be extremely powerful for the sole reason that it would free up the utility slot taken by SoS.

However I am all for more build diversity, so me likey. The fact that it will encourage more stealth spam builds leads me to think that the change would be an unlikely one.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infused_Precision

Advent.6193:

Daecollo.9578:

Advent.6193:

There is still one arguable advantage of current FS. If it’s not a boon, it can’t be ripped or inverted like one. Although, considering the 5 point minor in Acrobatics, Daecollo’s suggestion could work … it’s a tricky situation, and both concepts have ups and downs.

even if it was a boon, how could they rip it from us immediately if we are invisible?

A couple of ways come to mind. I main Mesmer, and a well-placed Null Field’d nuke that boon right fast. There’s also the Necro Well that inverts boons into conditions.
That one’s get a guy if he’s trying to cloak n’ run, or if targeted correctly with the trait that allows for ground-targeted wells.

Also, as for Sarrow’s comment: I definately agree. Although, it’d be interesting to see.

Well, thats balance for you. I think it would be fun and add some counters to stealth, while buffing thieves a little. (AKA.. LETTING ME USE SOMETHING else besides Signet of Shadows.)

Daecollo.9578:

Kurow.6973:

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah…while the 10 seconds are somewhat excessive I agree that Swiftness just makes more sense than the ominous “50% speed increase”….which apparently isn’t 50% anyway but rather 33%…which is exactly what Swiftness grants.

The reason why they probably didn’t make it Swiftness is because as a boon it is prone to modificators like “boon duration” .

That in turn might result in Thieves having quasi “perma-Swiftness”, which while nice, goes against the “temporary boost” nature of boons.

You mean like what’s in my picture?

Try guess what balanced class achieved that (all by itself, not through boons from other players/objects).

I thought they patched it so boons could not go over 1 minute, my Warrior can get 1 min of swiftness, but if he uses anything else, it will just go 1 minute again.

Yea…no. That screenshot is from today. I can get 9 minutes if I really wanted to. I’ve done it before.

Kurow.6973:

Daecollo.9578:

Kurow.6973:

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah…while the 10 seconds are somewhat excessive I agree that Swiftness just makes more sense than the ominous “50% speed increase”….which apparently isn’t 50% anyway but rather 33%…which is exactly what Swiftness grants.

The reason why they probably didn’t make it Swiftness is because as a boon it is prone to modificators like “boon duration” .

That in turn might result in Thieves having quasi “perma-Swiftness”, which while nice, goes against the “temporary boost” nature of boons.

You mean like what’s in my picture?

Try guess what balanced class achieved that (all by itself, not through boons from other players/objects).

I thought they patched it so boons could not go over 1 minute, my Warrior can get 1 min of swiftness, but if he uses anything else, it will just go 1 minute again.

Yea…no. That screenshot is from today. I can get 9 minutes if I really wanted to. I’ve done it before.

Lemme test this really quick…. aaandd.. you are right! ….

It just confusing because it doesn’t say after 1 min…

Fleet shadows is actually better than swiftness for a few reasons, but notably these:

1) The 50% speed bonus brings you to 125% while in combat, while swiftness would only bring you to 108%; together, they bring you to the 133% maximum

2) It counteracts the effects of cripple and chill more than swiftness does, and as mentioned above, stacks with swiftness to help counteract these effects even more

3) It cannot be stripped

Oxygen.5918:

Fleet shadows is actually better than swiftness for a few reasons, but notably these:

1) The 50% speed bonus brings you to 125% while in combat, while swiftness would only bring you to 108%; together, they bring you to the 133% maximum

2) It counteracts the effects of cripple and chill more than swiftness does, and as mentioned above, stacks with swiftness to help counteract these effects even more

3) It cannot be stripped

Movement speed is capped at 33%, regardless of what you have.

Daecollo.9578:

Oxygen.5918:

Fleet shadows is actually better than swiftness for a few reasons, but notably these:

1) The 50% speed bonus brings you to 125% while in combat, while swiftness would only bring you to 108%; together, they bring you to the 133% maximum

2) It counteracts the effects of cripple and chill more than swiftness does, and as mentioned above, stacks with swiftness to help counteract these effects even more

3) It cannot be stripped

Movement speed is capped at 33%, regardless of what you have.

133% is Normal move speed +33%

AKA the cap.

Fleet shadows makes the absolute move speed cap achievable while in combat (in stealth), and this is accurate information. It’s a very good trait that’s better than swiftness when in combat, where your stealthed move speed really counts. IMO it’s one of the best 5 point traits we have avaliable.

PopeUrban.2578:

Daecollo.9578:

Oxygen.5918:

Fleet shadows is actually better than swiftness for a few reasons, but notably these:

1) The 50% speed bonus brings you to 125% while in combat, while swiftness would only bring you to 108%; together, they bring you to the 133% maximum

2) It counteracts the effects of cripple and chill more than swiftness does, and as mentioned above, stacks with swiftness to help counteract these effects even more

3) It cannot be stripped

Movement speed is capped at 33%, regardless of what you have.

133% is Normal move speed +33%

AKA the cap.

Fleet shadows makes the absolute move speed cap achievable while in combat (in stealth), and this is accurate information. It’s a very good trait that’s better than swiftness when in combat, where your stealthed move speed really counts. IMO it’s one of the best 5 point traits we have avaliable.

Fleet of Shadows is actually 33%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fleet_Shadow

Bug: Fleet Shadow bonus to movement speed is only 33% when in combat.

Daecollo.9578:

Fleet of Shadows is actually 33%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fleet_Shadow

Bug: Fleet Shadow bonus to movement speed is only 33% when in combat.

Then, your point of criticism is a bug regarding the trait, not the trait in itself, as we’ve pretty much objectively established that, on paper, the trait ends up being better or at least equivalent to swiftness as they work together, not against eachother.

edit: It makes sense for Fleet Shadow to feel ~33% when in combat, for .75*50 may have felt pretty close to the players who have tested this for the wiki. Since their methods haven’t been documented, I’ll test this out myself on video. They could have been wrong. It doesn’t change my opinion in regards to the trait however. It’s still a good one.

Oxygen.5918:

Daecollo.9578:

Fleet of Shadows is actually 33%.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fleet_Shadow

Bug: Fleet Shadow bonus to movement speed is only 33% when in combat.

Then, your point of criticism is a bug regarding the trait, not the trait in itself, as we’ve pretty much objectively established that, on paper, the trait ends up being better or at least equivalent to swiftness as they work together, not against eachother.

edit: It makes sense for Fleet Shadow to feel ~33% when in combat, for .75*50 may have felt pretty close to the players who have tested this for the wiki. Since their methods haven’t been documented, I’ll test this out myself on video. They could have been wrong. It doesn’t change my opinion in regards to the trait however. It’s still a good one.

Swiftness/FoS do “not” work together.

But you can test it by using consumables for Perma Swiftness, and the 16c things that stealth you, so you can get 20 seconds of stealth.

I will go ahead and list three pros:

1) They are exactly the same speed, but one is a boon so its effected by boon duration. (which is what the tree has in it, lucky we have all these boons, right?)

2) Its usable outside of stealth as well as inside, so if you trait differently and stack boon duration, you can get a lot of swiftness like other classes enjoy.

3) Since its usable out of stealth, it will help the thief close gaps easier with there enemies, which is hard to do because everyone runs faster then we do, since we don’t have access to much swiftness outside of clunky long cool-down mechanics.

Daecollo.9578:

1) They are exactly the same speed, but one is a boon so its effected by boon duration. (which is what the tree has in it, lucky we have all these boons, right?)

2) Its usable outside of stealth as well as inside, so if you trait differently and stack boon duration, you can get a lot of swiftness like other classes enjoy.

3) Since its usable out of stealth, it will help the thief close gaps easier with there enemies, which is hard to do because everyone runs faster then we do, since we don’t have access to much swiftness outside of clunky long cool-down mechanics.

The intent of the trait is to provide movement while stealthed, though. Points such as “swiftness can be used outside of stealth” are irrelevant because that’s not the intent of the trait. It’s a tier 1 trait; anything more would make it too powerful. However, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to be “fixed”, should your claims that it doesn’t stack with swiftness, and the wiki’s claims that it is in fact capped to 33%, happen to have empirical foundations. Which I’ll test right now.

Regarding your #3, if you trait far enough into acrobatics to access FS, you have swiftness on dodge. I’d call that far from a “clunky long cooldown mechanic”.

Oxygen.5918:

Daecollo.9578:

1) They are exactly the same speed, but one is a boon so its effected by boon duration. (which is what the tree has in it, lucky we have all these boons, right?)

2) Its usable outside of stealth as well as inside, so if you trait differently and stack boon duration, you can get a lot of swiftness like other classes enjoy.

3) Since its usable out of stealth, it will help the thief close gaps easier with there enemies, which is hard to do because everyone runs faster then we do, since we don’t have access to much swiftness outside of clunky long cool-down mechanics.

The intent of the trait is to provide movement while stealthed, though. Points such as “swiftness can be used outside of stealth” are irrelevant because that’s not the intent of the trait. It’s a tier 1 trait; anything more would make it too powerful. However, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to be “fixed”, should your claims that it doesn’t stack with swiftness, and the wiki’s claims that it is in fact capped to 33%, happen to have empirical foundations. Which I’ll test right now.

Regarding your #3, if you trait far enough into acrobatics to access FS, you have swiftness on dodge. I’d call that far from a “clunky long cooldown mechanic”.

Of course, wasting your dodges for boons is a great tactic, I highly recommend it. (I am highly annoyed at anyone who suggests getting non-defensive boons from dodging a good idea, it makes people say things like: YOU HAVE plenty of swiftness, just dodge over and over again, when dodge is one of the most “You should use this to get out of sticky situations, not waste it.” thing.)

I only suggested it being swiftness, because thieves have little to no access to boons like other classes do.

It would not be overpowered, it would match other similar minor-major traits, such as the engineer one does.

It also fits the class, one that brags to have the highest mobility.

Daecollo.9578:

Of course, wasting your dodges for boons is a great tactic, I highly recommend it. (I am highly annoyed at anyone who suggests getting non-defensive boons from dodging a good idea, it makes people say things like: YOU HAVE plenty of swiftness, just dodge over and over again, when dodge is one of the most “You should use this to get out of sticky situations, not waste it.” thing.)

I only suggested it being swiftness, because thieves have little to no access to boons like other classes do.

It would not be overpowered, it would match other similar minor-major traits, such as the engineer one does.

It also fits the class, one that brags to have the highest mobility.

I typically dodge when I’m in combat (as a side effect of trying to stay alive), so the swiftness doesn’t come at much of a cost.

Comparing classes on a trait per trait basis is an exercise in futility as basically every other variable is different.

I think that my suggestion would be more elegant;

-Fix the speed to be an actual 50% rather than 33% (as stated in the tooltip and therefore intended)
-Have it stack with swiftness (as logic would denote; there is no logical design reason for different sources of speed to not stack with eachother, as there is the 133% cap to limit the power of speed)

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

Lets not. They’d make it like the regen trait, where it’s not applied if you already have that boon active, to prevent in from stacking in Shadow Refuge.

frans.8092:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

Lets not. They’d make it like the regen trait, where it’s not applied if you already have that boon active, to prevent in from stacking in Shadow Refuge.

Impossible, then they would have to change the dodge on swiftness trait to vigor.

After messing around all day with fleet shadows I think the intent of the trait is so that it is bearable to not have SoS equipped.

I been messing around with d/p and s/d all day today (I usually play P/D with SoS)

And I found fleet shadows to be really good with d/p the extra movement in stealth allows you to close and escape if need be. Escaping via heartseeker since it is affected by speed you can get out of a jam really really effectively.

FS is faster than swiftness in combat.

oZii.2864:

Escaping via heartseeker since it is affected by speed you can get out of a jam really really effectively.

You’ve just explained why the Black Powder – Heartseeker stealth build-up (BP HS X HS HS) worked so strange for me, putting me on the edge of the field on the second and returning heartseeker.

swinsk.6410:

FS is faster than swiftness in combat.

No, it isn’t any faster then swiftness in combat. Otherwise I would be moving 17% faster, which is a pretty big deal.

Daecollo.9578:

swinsk.6410:

FS is faster than swiftness in combat.

No, it isn’t any faster then swiftness in combat. Otherwise I would be moving 17% faster, which is a pretty big deal.

It is faster than swiftness and it is a pretty big deal. Also, heartseeker for movement while in stealth with FS gets you across the map insanely fast.

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

swinsk.6410:

FS is faster than swiftness in combat.

No, it isn’t any faster then swiftness in combat. Otherwise I would be moving 17% faster, which is a pretty big deal.

It is faster than swiftness and it is a pretty big deal. Also, heartseeker for movement while in stealth with FS gets you across the map insanely fast.

I’m pretty sure its 33%, i’ve tested it and its 33%, many other people have tested it and its 33%, it isn’t any faster then swiftness.

Please make a video prooving your words.

Daecollo.9578:

swinsk.6410:

FS is faster than swiftness in combat.

No, it isn’t any faster then swiftness in combat. Otherwise I would be moving 17% faster, which is a pretty big deal.

Nope. If fleet shadows works in combat (and after those testimonials im inclined to believe it does), you would be moving 12.7% faster. Bad maths are bad. Ill test this as soon as i can. The trait initial strikes was said to NOT be working here in these forums. I recently tested it. It works.

Ive done it. It appears as though fleet shadows is working as intended. Ill do further testing, but for starters, in the mists, do the following: go to the warrior npc (he has a crippling ability he likes to spam, and it lasts some nice time, good for testing), get yourself crippled with swiftness ONLY, no swiftness, and fleet shadows ONLY. Then come back here and tell me your conclusions. I move noticeably faster with fleet when crippled, when compared to swiftness. It seems as working as intended. Anet seems to be right on this one.

Eduardo.4675:

Ive done it. It appears as though fleet shadows is working as intended. Ill do further testing, but for starters, in the mists, do the following: go to the warrior npc (he has a crippling ability he likes to spam, and it lasts some nice time, good for testing), get yourself crippled with swiftness ONLY, no swiftness, and fleet shadows ONLY. Then come back here and tell me your conclusions. I move noticeably faster with fleet when crippled, when compared to swiftness. It seems as working as intended. Anet seems to be right on this one.

Well, apparently I and many other people are just wrong and stupid then.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Speed
Bug: The 6th bonus for the superior rune set (+7% movement speed while using swiftness), is currently bugged and does not function.

Daecollo.9578:

Eduardo.4675:

Ive done it. It appears as though fleet shadows is working as intended. Ill do further testing, but for starters, in the mists, do the following: go to the warrior npc (he has a crippling ability he likes to spam, and it lasts some nice time, good for testing), get yourself crippled with swiftness ONLY, no swiftness, and fleet shadows ONLY. Then come back here and tell me your conclusions. I move noticeably faster with fleet when crippled, when compared to swiftness. It seems as working as intended. Anet seems to be right on this one.

Well, apparently I and many other people are just wrong and stupid then.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Speed
Bug: The 6th bonus for the superior rune set (+7% movement speed while using swiftness), is currently bugged and does not function.

What does that has to do with the issue at hand?! How about YOU go to the mists and observe for yourself?? The Genesis mentions that the earth is 4500 years old. Its in the “Godly Wiki”, so its right. Even though carbon dating, or the radioactive half-life method has proven the earth to be at least 4.5 Billion years old… C’mon dude, ur being overly agressive these days, whats going on? Im the one with the bad temper, not you… Where did i say people are stupid in this matter? At least 2 guys are adamant about fleet being superior, it got me suspicious, so i tried it, go do the crippling thingie, ull see that the limping is faster on fleet than it is on swift. Noticeably faster. And this is an easy and quick testing. No hassle involved. Some critical attitude is good to have, thinking for yourself is the virtue of the free man, dont be a sheep. Avoid the bandwagon, it stops almost allways in the wrong places.

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

swinsk.6410:

FS is faster than swiftness in combat.

No, it isn’t any faster then swiftness in combat. Otherwise I would be moving 17% faster, which is a pretty big deal.

It is faster than swiftness and it is a pretty big deal. Also, heartseeker for movement while in stealth with FS gets you across the map insanely fast.

I’m pretty sure its 33%, i’ve tested it and its 33%, many other people have tested it and its 33%, it isn’t any faster then swiftness.

Please make a video prooving your words.

Fine. http://www.twitch.tv/dairuin/c/1943814

3 identical speed runs (from tree to wall along the tree’s shadow,), first with no swiftness, second with swiftness (33% speed), third in stealth with Fleet Shadow trait (50% speed). My average times using a stopwatch:
1st: 8.92 seconds
2nd: 6.45 seconds
3rd 5.83 seconds

Use the following formula to see the effectiveness. Simplify by using 1.0 as the speed value without swiftness and a constant unit for distance.

Time * Speed = Distance.

For #1:
8.92 seconds * 1.0 speed = 8.92 units of distance

For #2:
6.45 seconds * X speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.38 speed

For #3:
5.83 seconds * X Speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.53 speed.

This is well within the margin of error to conclude that swiftness is adding 33% and Fleet Shadows is adding 50% to run speed.

Ekemeister.8905:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

It doesn’t actually stack with swiftness, but it is faster than swiftness. When in stealth you’ll run the same +50% speed whether you have swiftness or not.

Dairuin.5602:

Ekemeister.8905:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

It doesn’t actually stack with swiftness, but it is faster than swiftness. When in stealth you’ll run the same +50% speed whether you have swiftness or not.

Can you edit it to make a side-by-side video?

When I counted it, they seem awfully similar.

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Ekemeister.8905:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

It doesn’t actually stack with swiftness, but it is faster than swiftness. When in stealth you’ll run the same +50% speed whether you have swiftness or not.

Can you edit it to make a side-by-side video?

When I counted it, they seem awfully similar.

Just use a stopwatch while watching like I did. I watched/timed it 3 times for each run and the average of the times I came up with is what I posted. Any inaccuracy in my timing explains why I didn’t come up with EXACTLY 33% and 50% speed increases, but the stealthed run was consistently 0.6 seconds faster than the swiftness run.

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Ekemeister.8905:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

It doesn’t actually stack with swiftness, but it is faster than swiftness. When in stealth you’ll run the same +50% speed whether you have swiftness or not.

Can you edit it to make a side-by-side video?

When I counted it, they seem awfully similar.

Just use a stopwatch while watching like I did. I watched/timed it 3 times for each run and the average of the times I came up with is what I posted. Any inaccuracy in my timing explains why I didn’t come up with EXACTLY 33% and 50% speed increases, but the stealthed run was consistently 0.6 seconds faster than the swiftness run.

Yes, but you did start as soon as you ran with one, and with the other I noticed you started the timer as you pressed the buff rather then running, I counted both out when you pressed the buff, and they both came out about 7.3-7.6 seconds.

Even if it is correct, your math is obviously off.

6.45 × 0.18% (Which would = the runspeed % you should have gained.) should make your #3 attempt 5.289, which it is a lot slower then 5.289, it is currently 0.541 seconds off so something is wrong, I think you started when you activated the buff, then started running with the swiftness buff.

And if you do it like that, starting to run when you do it, you would notice they are both about 7.3-7.6 seconds. (starting exactly when your feet take off the ground, rather then anything else.)

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Ekemeister.8905:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

It doesn’t actually stack with swiftness, but it is faster than swiftness. When in stealth you’ll run the same +50% speed whether you have swiftness or not.

Can you edit it to make a side-by-side video?

When I counted it, they seem awfully similar.

Just use a stopwatch while watching like I did. I watched/timed it 3 times for each run and the average of the times I came up with is what I posted. Any inaccuracy in my timing explains why I didn’t come up with EXACTLY 33% and 50% speed increases, but the stealthed run was consistently 0.6 seconds faster than the swiftness run.

Yes, but you did start as soon as you ran with one, and with the other I noticed you started the timer as you pressed the buff rather then running, I counted both out when you pressed the buff, and they both came out about 7.3-7.6 seconds.

Even if it is correct, your math is obviously off.

6.45 × 0.18% (Which would = the runspeed % you should have gained.) should make your #3 attempt 5.289, which it is a lot slower then 5.289, it is currently 0.541 seconds off so something is wrong, I think you started when you activated the buff, then started running with the swiftness buff.

And if you do it like that, starting to run when you do it, you would notice they are both about 7.3-7.6 seconds. (starting exactly when your feet take off the ground, rather then anything else.)

I have no idea what you’re talking about. In all cases I start my timer when I start movement and stop it when I hit the wall. Doesn’t matter when the buffs start as long as they are in effect for the duration of the movement.

You seem to be making up formulas to calculate run speed. All modifications are relative to the base (unbuffed) speed. Time X Speed = Distance is the proper formula, and will reliably show you how a reduction in time over a fixed distance is a result of a certain increase in speed.

In any case, time the movement from tree to wall using swiftness, and from tree to wall in stealth, and the difference is clear. Not sure why you’re still arguing this fact when the proof is there for all to see. This is a straight video capture directly to twich without any editing whatsoever, in case you’re headed down that road in your next rebuff.

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

Dairuin.5602:

Ekemeister.8905:

Daecollo.9578:

“When you stealth, you gain swiftness for 10 seconds.”

I actually love this trait as is. It stacks % speed increase on top of swiftness, instead of merely increasing duration by combining with other swiftness buffs.

I love ruunning this in my hidden killer builds b/c I can stealth + dodge roll for >150%
speed increase. As a thief, being the fastest is one of our fortes, and I consider it an invaluable utility.

It doesn’t actually stack with swiftness, but it is faster than swiftness. When in stealth you’ll run the same +50% speed whether you have swiftness or not.

Can you edit it to make a side-by-side video?

When I counted it, they seem awfully similar.

Just use a stopwatch while watching like I did. I watched/timed it 3 times for each run and the average of the times I came up with is what I posted. Any inaccuracy in my timing explains why I didn’t come up with EXACTLY 33% and 50% speed increases, but the stealthed run was consistently 0.6 seconds faster than the swiftness run.

Yes, but you did start as soon as you ran with one, and with the other I noticed you started the timer as you pressed the buff rather then running, I counted both out when you pressed the buff, and they both came out about 7.3-7.6 seconds.

Even if it is correct, your math is obviously off.

6.45 × 0.18% (Which would = the runspeed % you should have gained.) should make your #3 attempt 5.289, which it is a lot slower then 5.289, it is currently 0.541 seconds off so something is wrong, I think you started when you activated the buff, then started running with the swiftness buff.

And if you do it like that, starting to run when you do it, you would notice they are both about 7.3-7.6 seconds. (starting exactly when your feet take off the ground, rather then anything else.)

I have no idea what you’re talking about. In all cases I start my timer when I start movement and stop it when I hit the wall. Doesn’t matter when the buffs start as long as they are in effect for the duration of the movement.

You seem to be making up formulas to calculate run speed. All modifications are relative to the base speed. Time X Speed = Distance is the proper formula, and will reliably show you how a reduction in time over a fixed distance is a result of a certain increase in speed.

In any case, time the movement from tree to wall using swiftness, and from tree to wall in stealth, and the difference is clear. Not sure why you’re still arguing this fact when the proof is there for all to see.

I’m saying, you prooved that it didn’t add 18% Runspeed from when you started and ended, the math and numbers you provided prooves it, I mean its completely off an entire 0.5+ of a second. (That is a lot in the little time you provided.)

Which either means you started early, or its not increasing its speed properly.

Alright let me do it like this:

For #1:
8.92 seconds * 1.0 speed = 8.92 units of distance

For #2:
6.45 seconds * X speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.38 speed

For #3:
5.83 seconds * X Speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.53 speed.

1 is your most important number, its the base.
With Swiftness + #1, your speed with swiftness should be: 5.9764 (33%.)

With Fleet of Shadow + #1, your speed with it should be: 4.46 (50%.)

Your #3 is close to 33% Movement Speed, by 0.1 Seconds.

So your test proved to me that Fleet of Shadow is indeed broken, and increases movement speed by about 33%. (by 0.1464 off, but I could argue that that is just human reflexes and error.)

Thank you for this.

Daecollo.9578:

Alright let me do it like this:

For #1:
8.92 seconds * 1.0 speed = 8.92 units of distance

For #2:
6.45 seconds * X speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.38 speed

For #3:
5.83 seconds * X Speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.53 speed.

---

1 is your most important number, its the base.
With Swiftness + #1, your speed with swiftness should be: 5.9764

With Fleet of Shadow + #1, your speed with it should be: 4.46

Your #3 is close to 33% Movement Speed, by 0.1 Seconds.

So your test proved to me that Fleet of Shadow is indeed broken, and increases movement speed by about 33%. (by 0.1464 off, but I could argue that that is just human reflexes and error.)

Thank you for this.

I really have no idea how you’re calculating your numbers. Flip the formula like this (is why it’s such a great formula):

Distance / Speed = Time
Use 8.92 as the distance, 1.0 as the speed without buffs.

8.92 / 1.0 = 8.92 seconds

Add swiftness (1.33 speed)

8.92 / 1.33 = 6.71 seconds

Add Fleet Shadow (1.50 speed)

8.92 / 1.50 = 5.95 seconds

I had come up with 6.45 and 5.83, which given human error, my clumsy fingers on a stopwatch and the quite short sampling distance, is well within a reasonable margin of error to show everything is likely working poperly.

I’m not sure what exactly all this math is for.

It is a simple fact that FS is faster than swiftness while in combat and it’s definitely noticable. The percent amount it increases your speed I would assume would vary depending on your other speed buffs and debuffs.

Best part about it is that it lasts as long as you are in stealth instead of the 2s swiftness you get from evading.

Out of combat FS and swiftness are exactly the same because the cap speed is swiftness.

In combat big difference. Add in a cripple and it’s a huge difference.

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

Alright let me do it like this:

For #1:
8.92 seconds * 1.0 speed = 8.92 units of distance

For #2:
6.45 seconds * X speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.38 speed

For #3:
5.83 seconds * X Speed = 8.92 units of distance
X = 1.53 speed.

---

1 is your most important number, its the base.
With Swiftness + #1, your speed with swiftness should be: 5.9764

With Fleet of Shadow + #1, your speed with it should be: 4.46

Your #3 is close to 33% Movement Speed, by 0.1 Seconds.

So your test proved to me that Fleet of Shadow is indeed broken, and increases movement speed by about 33%. (by 0.1464 off, but I could argue that that is just human reflexes and error.)

Thank you for this.

I really have no idea how you’re calculating your numbers. Flip the formula like this (is why it’s such a great formula):

Distance / Speed = Time
Use 8.92 as the distance, 1.0 as the speed without buffs.

8.92 / 1.0 = 8.92 seconds

Add swiftness (1.33 speed)

8.92 / 1.33 = 6.71 seconds

Add Fleet Shadow (1.50 speed)

8.92 / 1.50 = 5.95 seconds

I had come up with 6.45 and 5.83, which given human error, my clumsy fingers on a stopwatch and the quite short sampling distance, is well within a reasonable margin of error to show everything is likely working poperly.

When you do percents, you do 0. not 1. …
So your saying 1.50 is half of 8.92?

Also, so with that formula, your saying that your STOPWATCH was EXACTLY on those numbers?

It sounds like you just measured the first one, and then did the math.

Daecollo.9578:

When you do percents, you do 0. not 1. …
So your saying 1.50 is half of 8.92?

No, I’m saying 1 + 1 = 2, and the number 1, increased by 50%, is 1.5.

I watched the video 3 times, timing each run and wrote down my results. I took the 3 numbers from the unbuffed run, for example, added them up, and divided by 3 (this is how you come up with an AVERAGE of a set of numbers.) I did the same for my written numbers from each buffed run, and posted my results when I posted the video. Then, in my last post, I showed what I might have expected to see if I had only timed the unbuffed run. Unsurprisingly, it was all pretty close to my written results, showing everything was hunky-dory.

Dairuin.5602:

Daecollo.9578:

When you do percents, you do 0. not 1. …
So your saying 1.50 is half of 8.92?

No, I’m saying 1 + 1 = 2, and the number 1, increased by 50%, is 1.5.

You just proved to me all you did was take your #1 and divided it up to make #2 and #3, tests CANNOT be that exact, if you really used a stopwatch, human error would of showed itself.

Daecollo.9578:

No, I’m saying 1 + 1 = 2, and the number 1, increased by 50%, is 1.5.

You just proved to me all you did was take your #1 and divided it up to make #2 and #3, tests CANNOT be that exact, if you really used a stopwatch, human error would of showed itself.

[/quote]

Good lord, now you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. I’m saying I TESTED my written results by using the formula again, but instead of solving for speed, I solved for time using the FIXED speed values that the game tells us we should be getting. Let me clarify… Using ONLY the unbuffed run as an example, I would EXPECT, given the tooltips in the game, that:

Swiftness would result in a 6.71 second run (my stopwatch came up with 6.45)
Fleet Shadow would result in a 5.95 second run (my stopwatch came up with 5.83)

Close enough for government work, and to show that everything is likely working as intended.

swinsk.6410:

Out of combat FS and swiftness are exactly the same because the cap speed is swiftness.

In combat big difference. Add in a cripple and it’s a huge difference.

All correct. Out of combat, FS isn’t any better than Swiftness. In-combat, it shines.

TL:DR for anyone new to this thread: Fleet Shadow is working as intended IN Combat. Out of Combat it’s the same as swiftness. Carry on.

Dairuin.5602:

swinsk.6410:

Out of combat FS and swiftness are exactly the same because the cap speed is swiftness.

In combat big difference. Add in a cripple and it’s a huge difference.

All correct. Out of combat, FS isn’t any better than Swiftness. In-combat, it shines.

Ugh, and we usually cure our movement conditions as we go into stealth thanks to our stealth traits.