Guild Wars 2

Ario.8964:

Nightblood, I’m having trouble understanding what you’re trying to say. I mean no disrespect and I’m certainly not making fun of you in any way but I’m not getting what you’re arguing.

I’m debating the potential to give non stealth builds more reliable ways to survive in the current meta so we aren’t taking 6k from every attack that hits us and you seem to be arguing that it shouldn’t happen because of issues you have with stealth. That’s my understanding of your posts but I could be wrong so if you could explain it a bit more I’d really appreciate it as I actually enjoy being able to discuss this but I also like to understand what you’re saying so I can give you the most effective response possible.

Actually thief has two main sustain stealth and evade with small extras, we got people screaming nerf spam of both and even the extras while it did happen it’s not enough for some. Thief is meant not be hit, stealth and evade fill those roles,you can’t complain I took high damage unless they want to buff recovery system for thief like how SR is for SA it’s decent, look at IP,AR,venom siphon they are weak while some healing buff did happen for some classes I don’t see them really making it for thief IP should siphon health not heal based on damage for example.

Most thieves also associate assassin with their spec soooo you really can’t complain about damage if you got hit when playing an assasin especially in thief’s case.

Ya Im very inexperienced. O.K. thats why Im complaining. Please explain why a thief does 4x the damage in one hit as a cannon on the side of a keep?

Like I said, a thread has been created called nerf wish list because so many people keep coming to this forum saying “Hey Im tired of this” and you want to make fun of that fact. The proof is right there.

Its either bring every class up or nerf you. There is no reason thieves should be that dominant in this game that it has everyone complaining just because you think you should one shot people and get away with it.

It kittenes a lot of people off and makes them enraged to the point they are ranting on forums just like I did.

Ohh and btw. Yeah medi guard is such a direct counter to s/d thieves there is just no possible way it can beat one.

And just for kicks:

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or really that inexperienced.

Edit: I currently don’t know the damage a cannon does against a usual wvw player, I just know that cannons are pretty good and do 30k against golems which is the most important thing to me, anyway: All other classes are able to do the same damage thief does – depending on the traits, build and the armor of the target (and other stuff of the target) – so your point is kind of invalid.
To your video links: People making these videos usually don’t show when they lose, some do, like the engi I linked you previously.
And something you need to understand: There are players of different skill level in this game. My buddy and I duel a lot and he’s about the same general skill level like me, so we’re both good players no matter the class we play (he learns faster though). I can’t beat him when he’s on his medi guard but I can beat 90% of all medi guards I meet in wvw, simply because I have more skill than them – there is no “this class beats that class” if the player behind it isn’t of equal skill.

T raw.4658:

nightblood.7910:

O.K. I stand corrected on health. You guys create a lot of vile in people for a reason. You guys make fun of it here but the mass complaints about thieves show a problem.

People arent in here complaining constantly because youre not constantly putting them in no win situations because you have a class mechanic of too much insta damage that is extremely hard to counter if not impossible in too many situations.

CnD off walls?

Bottom line in a game where visual understanding of your target, reacting to animations, reacting to environment and there is some class that negates every single bit of that leaving you with no way to react or counter it because you dont know its there well thats called entirely too unfair. And itsd class mechanic that is doing it. I really dont mind your damage, if I could react to it coming.

Im sure many have said the line “Well I was about to gg that guy except that thief showed up.”

Stealth is extremely powerful in a game that doesnt rely on radar for enemy detection.

I mean we even get a red circle on the ground to let us know where a cannon is about to hit and it generally does less damage than you can. The most damage in the game (Necro Wells) require some significant coordination with many people setting it up to get the full potential of it due to all the animation on the ground. In small groups a power necro is a setting duck.

Ohh and that Mighty blow is a 4 sec cd, but its animated, good players dodge more often than not unless I immob them and that has a looooong cd and is easily dodged by the right person.

If everyone had a thief detector, I dont think anyone would be complaining. We rely on visual understanding of the environment to play this game in every single aspect but when thieves come into play.,

A warrior adds, well Ive rotated that fight around enough to see them coming, I know its going to happen, I need to save a stun breaker. A ranger add from a distance, well he might get a couple of rapid fire shots off on me.

Thief, thsat fight needs to be a 1v1 fight and I have to be fully concentrated on you and not worried about anything else to beat you. I have to use aegis, the tell tale blind, my own one AOE blind, and every AOE I have.

People can learn to fight a mes, engi, and whatever else by fighting them more and more to understand their animations and their tell tale signs. Even a mes, mighty blow and ring of warding screws up a shatter in a heart beat. Killing clones with AOE seems to be the way to fight those guys. I dont know yet I havent gotten a chance. Regardless its animated. Even them as an Add, I can reset that fight sand get out before they add anything significant to it.

I dont mind getting gg’s by players that out played me. Thats just something to learn from, but when I get gg’d and there is no counter in the game to it. Thats a problem.

The reason I call for more squishy thieves is you need to pay a price. A thief revealed open field shouldnt be so quick and easy to jump back into stealth. In a game where we rely on sight stealth is a huge defense.

We need something, we hit you in stealth numbers pop and you are revealed. I hit you with a sword while in stealth I should feel that therefore I should have a way of knowing that happened.

Long Cooldown on stealth after BackStab so when you do this you risk the chance of exposure. Your risk is too low. It needs to be higher to make you think twice before just running up out of no where.

And 5k is a significant amount of damage, half of your insta damage and severely animated. So what does that tell you about 10K backstabs if 5k is significant? Ohh and you disappeared right after doing so.

Thieves should be having to find the perfect situation to jump in as their risk level should be extremely high. You add to a fight out of no where with that much damage, you need to be risking a 10k hit yourself.

Why shouldnt you risk an insta 10K hit? Everyone else does because of you.

Very inexperienced player complaining about thieves. Every build thief has has been nerfed significantly. Only PD condi remains OP.

It’s time for you to roll thief and post your daily logs of your endeavors….i want videos with commentary

humor I want to comment if ok? ok here is another way to look at it. Us other class know and experience what have high risk is, to thief players they think they have high risk also. So my question to thief player; what evidence do you have for high risk? i need more than just 1 evidence because us other player have many evidence of high risk for our class. You go first

Im not going to quote that whole spill again but this, I didnt notice at first.

It’s time for you to roll thief and post your daily logs of your endeavors….i want videos with commentary

I am seriously considering doing just that, I was keeping my tomes for the new class, but yes this has crossed my mind, lets see what this noob everyone thinks I am can do with a thief.

But if Im going to commit my time to that, I want a guaranteed nerf if I can produce the same.

And hoenstly, if I can get stuns on block with no cd and renewed focus recharging my skills as well as virtues. Id be saying the same thing you guys are “Naahhh this is not overpowered its still got these holes and and well if its 10 good people they could take me down, but no noobs.”

nightblood.7910:

Im not going to quote that whole spill again but this, I didnt notice at first.

It’s time for you to roll thief and post your daily logs of your endeavors….i want videos with commentary

I am seriously considering doing just that, I was keeping my tomes for the new class, but yes this has crossed my mind, lets see what this noob everyone thinks I am can do with a thief.

But if Im going to commit my time to that, I want a guaranteed nerf if I can produce the same.

And hoenstly, if I can get stuns on block with no cd and renewed focus recharging my skills as well as virtues. Id be saying the same thing you guys are “Naahhh this is not overpowered its still got these holes and and well if its 10 good people they could take me down, but no noobs.”

Sure.

Please write your request on the nerf wish list, found in my signature bellow. Be sure to follow the format of What/Why/Suggestion/Thread(optional).

nightblood.7910:

Im not going to quote that whole spill again but this, I didnt notice at first.

It’s time for you to roll thief and post your daily logs of your endeavors….i want videos with commentary

I am seriously considering doing just that, I was keeping my tomes for the new class, but yes this has crossed my mind, lets see what this noob everyone thinks I am can do with a thief.

But if Im going to commit my time to that, I want a guaranteed nerf if I can produce the same.

And hoenstly, if I can get stuns on block with no cd and renewed focus recharging my skills as well as virtues. Id be saying the same thing you guys are “Naahhh this is not overpowered its still got these holes and and well if its 10 good people they could take me down, but no noobs.”

Go glass or go home

Wolfield.9812:

nightblood.7910:

1. 2 power thieves and Im definitely in trouble.

2. but an experienced one can be very hard, two is overwhelming.

3. And IM tired of thieves jumping in a fight im about to win and now all of a sudden I have almost no health because I was at half and about to gg some dude that I definitely just overpowered and out maneuvered.

4. You get in a 1v1 with someone ohh look OP thief just jumped in and hit my heavy armor with a dagger and somehow that one move just did more damage to me than this guy Im fighting did in total through out the fight.

5. If this was a 1v1 game, no thieves wouldnt be overpowered, but the fact that they can jump in a fight and just immediately change that fight to your loss no matter the situation because you dont see them coming and you cant see them coming? Thats BS.

6. You dont pay enough price for that damage and stealth. I pay a significant price for power and damage through low defense, if I want a higher defense I pay for it in damage. Youre the only ones that doesnt have to pay for defense

7. Your inherent health pool needs to be knocked down to that of eles and guards or you need to go down to light armor ratings or you need to lose some damage. You got to lose something for stealth and mobility. Even Mesmers have to wear light armor and they have a 3rd of the stealth you do.

Quote above has been cut, nothing added, only removed things to make the responses below clear.

Since you took the time to make a long post, to answer some of your above queries:

1. Two Zerker power builds of any class, and your in trouble. Point invalid.

2. An experienced thief is hard for you, two experienced thieves is too much for you. Sounds balanced. Point invalid.

3. Your in a fight, at half health and used cooldowns. Any class “jumping” in with every skill off of cooldown and you are in trouble. Point invalid.

4. “One move”, (0.5 Sometimes cluster bomb) 1. Steal. 2. Cloak and Dagger. 3. Backstab. 4. Fire sigil. 5. Air sigil. 6. Heartseeker. To be honest, if I was hit by six of your moves at once, I would also be in trouble. Point invalid.

5. Your in a fight and suddenly it becomes a 2v1, and you lose. Sounds balanced. The fact we can’t do it from 1200 range like a Ranger/Mesmer/etc/etc. The fact you don’t see us coming. Try using all your cooldowns to close distances and its the same. Everyone has movement skills. Point invalid.

6. We have to trait for damage as well. Don’t understand your point here to be honest so just going to go ahead and say: point invalid.

7. You seem to think we don’t lose anything for everything we have. Thieves have no access to protection. None. That’s 20% less defense for you. We have no access to stability (apart for 1 second after coming out of stealth), so all stuns work on us. As a guardian that has both boons alot of the time you do not realise the disadvantage this is. (Mesmer steal, boon steal does give protection/stability, but that’s requires other classes, not from ourselves.) So, point invalid.

Hope some of what I have replied has been constructive. My recommendation is you role a thief for awhile in spvp since it won’t need to be leveled. Then come back here. As a Guardian you counter thieves with nearly every build, enjoy it.

You wrote this topic and have replied since but ignored the above. Moved it to here in case you missed it and not just ignoring it because of the truth of the comments.

Another point, both of the videos you uploaded to back up your facts are over a year old. Currently what you see is not possible. So you have just countered your own argument, thieves have been over nerfed.

Yes, thief’s only meta in Dungeons, PvP and WvW roaming. Anet pls buff this poor profession.

witcher.3197:

Yes, thief’s only meta in Dungeons, PvP and WvW roaming. Anet pls buff this poor profession.

Broaden your mind before you start trying to be witty, even if it is with sarcasm. There is a huge nerf incomming, and it’s to the only thing that makes this class viable: mobility. Every class is designed to excel at something, and each class gets buffed in those areas. Thief gets nerfed in every other area with its area of specialty mostly left alone. Now they are nerfing that area massively, and as far as we know, there will be absolutely no compensation.

Although I’m hoping it won’t be as bad as it seems. If it is, I’ll be beyond angry. Most PvP teams have 2 eles. Eles and engineers are all extremely popular. Mobility is a good way to try and work against these celestial compositions, and yet now it’s getting nerfed. Aside from the fact that my favourite class - actually the only one I enjoy playing because of the fast mobile style - is getting nerfed yet again, I’m losing interest with the way this meta is, and seems to be going further into.

witcher.3197:

Yes, thief’s only meta in Dungeons, PvP and WvW roaming. Anet pls buff this poor profession.

Dungeons: Glass Damage, Dagger Dagger Rotation, Blast Spam

SPvP: Mobility, Glass Damage, Dagger Pistol Rotation (D/D got nerfed with 4 sec reveal).

WvW: Glass Damage, D/D or D/P, Mobility, Blast Spam,
P/D condition (which is too strong)

Would love to run a different build, just sometimes.

I just realised. With the changes to these ports, preventing us from chaining ports and stopping vertical ports, warrior will be the most mobile class in the game.

It all makes sense now. Well played ANet, well played.

Wolfield.9812:

witcher.3197:

Yes, thief’s only meta in Dungeons, PvP and WvW roaming. Anet pls buff this poor profession.

Dungeons: Glass Damage, Dagger Dagger Rotation, Blast Spam

SPvP: Mobility, Glass Damage, Dagger Pistol Rotation (D/D got nerfed with 4 sec reveal).

WvW: Glass Damage, D/D or D/P, Mobility, Blast Spam,
P/D condition (which is too strong)

Would love to run a different build, just sometimes.

Doesn’t really seem to be the approach taken in this thread. Doesn’t seem about diversification so much as its victimization of thieves… Third glass builds are doing quite fine in every aspect with some build. They aren’t crippled just because they’ve taken nerfs. Diversity in thieves though, yeah it’s not great.

T raw.4658:

Very inexperienced player complaining about thieves. Every build thief has has been nerfed significantly. Only PD condi remains OP.

Seems to me the inexperienced players are those who complain about nerfs without context and either don’t realise the real issue with thieves or want or pretend it does not exist.

Thief has had lots of nerfs (though it is not alone in that regard, even though some players seem to think it is) and currently is arguably as weak as it has ever been, yet… go watch the recent WTS finals, yet again both teams had a thief, and there is your problem and why the nerf bat appears regularly – the basic design of thief is absolutely broken OP to the point virtually every decent team for the entirety of the game has had a thief, they are a must have pick and always have been.

This is a class that even after all the nerfs, is still basically so broken OP it keeps all other zerker builds (other than the freak medi guard) either completely out of the picture (e.g – static discharge engi) or simply overshadows them and renders them sub-par (e.g – shatter mes, longbow ranger, etc), all whilst being basically ‘untouchable’ in its role as roamer and this has been the case for the entire game.

Unfortunately Anet’s “answer” seems to be keep nerfing thief, rather than addressing the fundamental issues with the class design / mechanics that make it unbalanceable.

nightblood.7910:

Ya Im very inexperienced. O.K. thats why Im complaining. Please explain why a thief does 4x the damage in one hit as a cannon on the side of a keep?

a cannon usually does around 5-6kish damage on a level 80 player. that would mean you are seeing thieves that do over 20k damage in one hit. stop drugs.