Ok so I know this topic is gonna get a lot of dislikes and downvotes etc. etc.
But it seems Anet wont rollback the 1s ICD change it so poorly chose to implement so we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future. Such a pity.
As I was saying though, in HoTM I tried doing marauders, rune of the scholar with some crit sigils and set up a few backstabs. I’m hitting about 5k in one backstab normally and I’ll crit to about 6.2k. Kind of low damage for all this hassle. I mean, you have to first enter stealth, with d/p it’s easy but with d/d it’s extremely difficult with todays blocks and dodges. You then have to position yourself behind the enemy and hope to the lord they aren’t braindead potatoes that have no clue how to dodge once you enter stealth, not only that but you also have to do that and hope they dont activate any invulns or blocks which every profession seems to freaking have. So yeah, the damage just is not worth it.
Look I know you have “visions” for each professions and think that the players should play the game how you want it. But at the end of the day we are the players, we want to play the game how we want it. Not feel like it’s a chore having to play the same freaking build over and over and over again. Please let us choose how to play our hero’s. Even if that means going power d/d again.
Never trust a thief, they’ll backstab you and steal your shit..
You’re talking about pvp, right?
Yes, the damage should be adjusted in PvP (Deceiver is the one who knows what exactly is different) but nothing should be done with the weaponskills as I usually hit a thief for ~8,5 k, a full zerker ele for 9 (in wvw) and I’m not even running signets – I’ve had 2 really interesting fights with thieves lately, I’d say they were pretty long, but actually lasted only half a minute the second maybe 2 minutes, because thief vs thief is so freaking fast. Up the BS damage and it’s true one shot.
You’re talking about pvp, right?
Yes, the damage should be adjusted in PvP (Deceiver is the one who knows what exactly is different) but nothing should be done with the weaponskills as I usually hit a thief for ~8,5 k, a full zerker ele for 9 (in wvw) and I’m not even running signets – I’ve had 2 really interesting fights with thieves lately, I’d say they were pretty long, but actually lasted only half a minute the second maybe 2 minutes, because thief vs thief is so freaking fast. Up the BS damage and it’s true one shot.
Yeah when I say HoTM I meant pvp xd sorry
Never trust a thief, they’ll backstab you and steal your shit..
BS doesn’t need dmg upgrade. Generally thief doesn’t need dmg buff, we need better ways to land our dmg and overcome passives and crap that were added with HoT and not going to be removed any time soon.
The whole reason why we hit like wet noodle most of the time is because of perma weakness/protection/absurd amount of blocks/invuls etc. If we had tools for those, our dmg wouldn’t be an issue. Yes, it would be powercreep all over again but i don’t see devs EVER nerfing other classes survival for the sake of thief class (more of opposite considering they been adding changes to please bad players for years now).
Either they try and re-examine and re-balance all the skills in sPvP uniquely, or just give it the same stat allocations as PvE/WvW and do global skills fixes. Backstab is very powerful in WvW/PvE but because of the math behind how the thief works as a profession, hits for little damage in sPvP.
The latter is way easier to do, and would fix more than just sPvP. Of course, ANet is taking the route of trying to balance PvE and sPvP separately while ignoring WvW.
Since many ppl in pvp prefer to use ammulets with defensive stats and defensive traits, sure buff backstab. Any pure glass cannons should be high risk, high reward if you have the skills to land the strikes. Some alternatives that I thought of is inverting executioner trait so it can be like unsuspected strike like in gw1 and buff hidden killer to make sneak attacks to be unblockable.
sPvP stat distribution is just garbage and imbalanced on the mathematical level in so many ways that any changes made in its name would break the rest of the game.
Daum, I haven’t seen that kind of damage since 2013. Can you teach me how to do that.
Its sacrifice every one of your survivability, and put it on the damage.
and if you fails you have to run unless you’ll gonna see enemy dancing on your deadbody. and saying that making example for that picture doesn’t make anysense.
any people who is not braindead would see thief has maxed out sigils and running for the full nuke, and simply dodge it. If you likly to show that picture and saying BS don’t need any damage buff, in other way it could say it needs damage nerf which is completely make thief dead.
you should compare power coefficient with other profession’s skills as normal build as spvp sets
anyway, buff or not, that damage is still there unless BS got nerf.
and its still gonna one shot everyone.
buff damage for BS would gives quality of life to non-oneshot builds.
anyway, buff or not, that damage is still there unless BS got nerf.
and its still gonna one shot everyone.
buff damage for BS would gives quality of life to non-oneshot builds.
I already said it: The damage in wvw is already really high – it is a bit higher (~1k) than before June 23th 2015 – our vitality hadn’t gotten any higher though, so thieves can already “one shot” each other even if they’re not running signets – it would be stupid to buff that even further. When it comes to against other classes (than Ele and thief), then maybe you have a point but even then; rather nerf their sustain than to buff BS.
When it comes to pvp that’s a different scenario.
anyway, buff or not, that damage is still there unless BS got nerf.
and its still gonna one shot everyone.
buff damage for BS would gives quality of life to non-oneshot builds.
I already said it: The damage in wvw is already really high – it is a bit higher (~1k) than before June 23th 2015 – our vitality hadn’t gotten any higher though, so thieves can already “one shot” each other even if they’re not running signets – it would be stupid to buff that even further. When it comes to against other classes (than Ele and thief), then maybe you have a point but even then; rather nerf their sustain than to buff BS.
When it comes to pvp that’s a different scenario.
I remember on some stream a year or so ago they said they don’t know what to do with thief.
And as usual it would’ve been better they left it alone.
yeah that is gonna give more risk when against thief, but not every other class only thief.
And here we are, how weak thieves are. they can’t blow other class yet they could still one shot each other. which is mean low damage, low survivability
I rather one shot by other thief, if I could burst someone to blow up with right combo moves
Except you won’t. Because the issue of us not being able reliably to land dmg will be still there. Not to mention any tiny buff to thief is always followed by HUGE idiotic nerfs so at the end we are worse off than before.
BS does enough dmg, it just gets nullified by absurd amount of blocks/invuls/dmg redux traits/perma prot etc. from other classes. If we had more ways to ignore those things, bs would be awesome again.
Daum, I haven’t seen that kind of damage since 2013. Can you teach me how to do that.
Its sacrifice every one of your survivability, and put it on the damage.
and if you fails you have to run unless you’ll gonna see enemy dancing on your deadbody. and saying that making example for that picture doesn’t make anysense.
any people who is not braindead would see thief has maxed out sigils and running for the full nuke, and simply dodge it. If you likly to show that picture and saying BS don’t need any damage buff, in other way it could say it needs damage nerf which is completely make thief dead.
you should compare power coefficient with other profession’s skills as normal build as spvp sets
It has some staying potential when played exceptionally well, but it does require you to massively out-play the opponent. It’s not so much “run away on failure” but needing to know exactly when to run away if you need to; even the slightest dalley would get you killed playing this build. Unfortunately, D/D power as a build is pretty much dead in the water, now (generally speaking against opponents who know how to punish well) with the changes to stealth attacks with the ICD, since CnD is unreliable with the BV change, stab becomes unreliable, and two of the five weapon skills on D/D are horrible while none of them offer any mid-stealth purpose.
As far as it always one-shotting people, no. It can take huge gouges from full tanks, but a durable meta roaming druid can facetank all of the damage and still be over half. The issue isn’t a fault with backstab, however; the defensive powercreep in HoT is just way out of hand and needs to be cut down, since pre-HoT or non-defensive builds get punished enough as it is when not playing well.
I rather one shot by other thief, if I could burst someone to blow up with right combo moves
Except you won’t. Because the issue of us not being able reliably to land dmg will be still there. Not to mention any tiny buff to thief is always followed by HUGE idiotic nerfs so at the end we are worse off than before.
BS does enough dmg, it just gets nullified by absurd amount of blocks/invuls/dmg redux traits/perma prot etc. from other classes. If we had more ways to ignore those things, bs would be awesome again.
Precisely. Even worse when paired with CnD, considering the stealth and consequent damage is dependent on another easy-to-negate attack .
I mean even with the messed up Stat values in sPvP, you can still hit some pretty decent numbers. But yeah, you can only hit that high with typically low survival Glass Cannon builds. Which if you kitten up, die, haha. Still, it’s great fun watching the panic after someones health disappears. No-one ever expects damage numbers that high from a Thief, for some reason.
As another note, highest I’ve been able to hit with it in sPvP was roughly 24k. That was against another Glass Cannon (Or well, it was a non-Toughness stat set, I wasn’t really sure what the other was running), after getting 25 Vuln and 25 might from a double trap proc (Thank you improv).
sPvP stat distribution is just garbage and imbalanced on the mathematical level in so many ways that any changes made in its name would break the rest of the game.
how do you get that damage with that much hp? share build pls.
sPvP stat distribution is just garbage and imbalanced on the mathematical level in so many ways that any changes made in its name would break the rest of the game.
how do you get that damage with that much hp? share build pls.
I’m assuming he’s using a mix of Valkyrie/Berserker gear,with his health being increased further by his Worlds WvW bonuses.
Also gonna assume he’s running CS (2:2:1); DA (2:2:3); Trickery (3:1:2), with possibly Scholar runes. With maybe Force/Impact Sigils. He looks like he freshly died, so probably had Bloodlust stacks too.
Sorry for not posting even though I am the OP, real life just hit hard.
Why I proposed the buff to BS was primarily to help out power d/d. I doubt that d/p would benefit greatly from BS as the only reason you go into stealth in d/p is to sneak up on someone taking a point. honestly I’m sick and tired of d/p and I enjoy d/d way more, but I also dont enjoy playing condi d/d where I spam 3 and hey presto they die.
I just want more build diversity when going into PvP. As in "Hey he’s running s/d, or d/d condi or d/d power whilst I’m running something else and we still have an equal chance of winning. Thats how the game should be played. Skill level not what build you run.
Never trust a thief, they’ll backstab you and steal your shit..
I’m assuming he’s using a mix of Valkyrie/Berserker gear,with his health being increased further by his Worlds WvW bonuses.
Also gonna assume he’s running CS (2:2:1); DA (2:2:3); Trickery (3:1:2), with possibly Scholar runes. With maybe Force/Impact Sigils. He looks like he freshly died, so probably had Bloodlust stacks too.
Instead of upping the damage of BS which is unneeded, they can make all Stealth attacks Unblockable either baseline or from a trait in SA. With the amount of restrictions placed on Thieves and stealth as is this would be very balanced, as well as in comparison to all the damage mitigation/invulns/Passives/sustain every class has.
Sorry for not posting even though I am the OP, real life just hit hard.
Why I proposed the buff to BS was primarily to help out power d/d. I doubt that d/p would benefit greatly from BS as the only reason you go into stealth in d/p is to sneak up on someone taking a point. honestly I’m sick and tired of d/p and I enjoy d/d way more, but I also dont enjoy playing condi d/d where I spam 3 and hey presto they die.
With the way they changed Lead Attacks from Trickery, D/P actually benefits from it more, at least in my opinion, since you now have to ‘Prep’ the damage modifier before you land the backstab if you want the full 15% damage bonus. Which can be done much easier than D/D since you can just stack stealth and BAM, you’ve got it to max stacks. Where as on D/D, unless you’re using SB off hand and IA’ing everywhere beforehand, you gotta either spam CnD, which is a waste of initiative before a fight, or HS, while still being visible to the enemy. Otherwise when you CnD -> Backstab into a fight, you’re gonna only be getting a 6% damage modifier. At the.
At the same time though that’s just me, I like that maximized Backstab number exploding over the enemies head, so I’m a wee bit biased I think, haha. Where as with D/D CnD into BS is usually more than enough to blow up someone in two hits, while only using 6 initiative.
