My question ist, why should the Thief have a diffrent system than all other classes ?
I know many thief players would say the class cant exist without it. But lets discuss that issue.
In my oppinion the ini System should be changed to give all classes the same issue with managing cooldowns. In fact it will brake many players neck if they cant press 4 times the same skill just to do burst damage. But we all know that this is not the only way to play a thief and its not very trickery or clever played method. I think there are other good options like sword/dagger and so on. Of course everything will be diffrent an there will be other thinks to change with it.
So lets talk about it who can imagine that and what would have to be diffrend in skill, traits and of course playstyle.
The initiative system IS a cooldown system—just a “bigger picture” version.
Think about it: Whereas other classes have cool downs on individual skills (meaning there will always be skills coming off of CD’s for use), the thief has a cool down on all skills at the same time. If a thief burns through his initiative completely, he’s a sitting duck and can’t use ANY weapon skills. If any other class burns through his CD’s on one set, he can swap and use the other weapon set. Thief can swap all he wants, but once his initiative’s gone it’s pointless.
What seems to be disturbing people are thieves that know how to manage their massive CD. It’s a bigger weakness that can be (and is) a bigger strength when managed properly.
The initiative system IS a cooldown system—just a “bigger picture” version.
Think about it: Whereas other classes have cool downs on individual skills (meaning there will always be skills coming off of CD’s for use), the thief has a cool down on all skills at the same time. If a thief burns through his initiative completely, he’s a sitting duck and can’t use ANY weapon skills. If any other class burns through his CD’s on one set, he can swap and use the other weapon set. Thief can swap all he wants, but once his initiative’s gone it’s pointless.
What seems to be disturbing people are thieves that know how to manage their massive CD. It’s a bigger weakness that can be (and is) a bigger strength when managed properly.
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all? When they want to stealth they use CnD but by the time they re-enage (3-4 sec later) they almost regen all the init they lost?
How about BS build where BS doesnt even cost init. The total init cost of this burst is 6.
The advantages of the Init system far exceed that of every other classes cool down mechanic in this game. But I’m a realistic guy and I know this system will not change b/c they do not want to rebuild the class from the ground up. However, don’t come here and tell me it’s a “bigger picture cool down” when some builds basically counter the “weakness” of this system.
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all? When they want to stealth they use CnD but by the time they re-enage (3-4 sec later) they almost regen all the init they lost?
How about BS build where BS doesnt even cost init. The total init cost of this burst is 6.
The advantages of the Init system far exceed that of every other classes cool down mechanic in this game. But I’m a realistic guy and I know this system will not change b/c they do not want to rebuild the class from the ground up. However, don’t come here and tell me it’s a “bigger picture cool down” when some builds basically counter the “weakness” of this system.
Except if P/D or D/D misses or his CnD gets evaded twice, they are out of init and pretty useless. Wait? Doesn’t mean a thief needs to play well and time his CnD’s perfectly or he will be sitting duck? Yup it does!
With teh cooldown system you don’t need to play as well. You can literally just spam attacks and skills as they come available if you like. With a thief, you cannot do that unless you want to run out of init very quickly and die.
Both have their advantages and disavantages. IMO, neither is more powerful than the other. It all depends on the player behind the class.
The initiative system IS a cooldown system—just a “bigger picture” version.
Think about it: Whereas other classes have cool downs on individual skills (meaning there will always be skills coming off of CD’s for use), the thief has a cool down on all skills at the same time. If a thief burns through his initiative completely, he’s a sitting duck and can’t use ANY weapon skills. If any other class burns through his CD’s on one set, he can swap and use the other weapon set. Thief can swap all he wants, but once his initiative’s gone it’s pointless.
What seems to be disturbing people are thieves that know how to manage their massive CD. It’s a bigger weakness that can be (and is) a bigger strength when managed properly.
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all? When they want to stealth they use CnD but by the time they re-enage (3-4 sec later) they almost regen all the init they lost?
How about BS build where BS doesnt even cost init. The total init cost of this burst is 6.
The advantages of the Init system far exceed that of every other classes cool down mechanic in this game. But I’m a realistic guy and I know this system will not change b/c they do not want to rebuild the class from the ground up. However, don’t come here and tell me it’s a “bigger picture cool down” when some builds basically counter the “weakness” of this system.
BS requires stealth and position. An elementalist can literally continually spam abilities by stance dancing, I don’t see how init is somehow better when it restricts swaps. If a D/D Thief back-stabs you after cloak and dagger (I assume that’s your 6 init stealth you are talking about) that means you let them hit you with a fairly telegraphed ability and gave them your back within 3-4 seconds.
Good players will dodge/block/immune C&D, all it takes is this to happen 2x in a row and a thief is forced to use a utility and if they happen to be down, there is very little init left to try to flee.
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all?
Yes, they should nerf those kitten OP builds where their auto-attack deals the most damage.
So now P/D is OP? Didn’t take too long to get to this build too huh? How about the Great sword autoattack?Should they nerf it too?
With P/D what skill you suggest to do the most damage instead of autoattack?
C&D?…Too late,it was nerfed….
DD?…Too late,it was nerfed…
Shadow Strike?…In some other life maybe…
Body Shot?…?….?!!?….In some other UNIVERSE maybe
Ss Ninja- Rank 50 Asura Condition Thief (The Bulgarians [BG])
My Ringtones on Zedge >>>C l i c k <<<
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all?
Yes, they should nerf those kitten OP builds where their auto-attack deals the most damage.
I never said they should nerf it. Just pointing out that you really don’t use init that much in certain builds.
This is only the case if you let them hit you with it. Otherwise they blow it all their inti in 2 trys. Unless you are fighting near mobs which I always x/d thieves away from anyway. If they demand to fight near 10 coyotes just move along.
Biggest mistake people make fighting p/d is dodging pistol#1 when it should be reserved for C&D every time.
So now P/D is OP? Didn’t take too long to get to this build too huh?Backstab build and S/D build wasn’t enough….How about the Great sword autoattack?Should they nerf it too?
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all?
Yes, they should nerf those kitten OP builds where their auto-attack deals the most damage.
So now P/D is OP? Didn’t take too long to get to this build too huh?Backstab build and S/D build wasn’t enough….How about the Great sword autoattack?Should they nerf it too?
Every thief build is OP, apparently, but ESPECIALLY the ones where you do the most damage using your auto-attack.
Forgot the sarcasm tag in the post you replied to
Regina Dentata (Guardian)
Melenkurion Abathas (Thief)
Desolation (EU)
I missed that….
I am not a religious man.Generally i believe in Darwin’s Theory of Evolution,but from the posts in this forum i am kind of starting to doubt if the Human is the best result of several billion ears of evolution…..
Ss Ninja- Rank 50 Asura Condition Thief (The Bulgarians [BG])
My Ringtones on Zedge >>>C l i c k <<<
I missed that….
I am not a religious man.Generally i believe in Darwin’s Theory of Evolution,but from the posts in this forum i am kind of starting to doubt if the Human is the best result of several billion ears of evolution…..
Of course, who doesn’t agree with you should be a monkey for sure.
Keep arguing on forums, please. I bet you’ll make a bunch of friends.
Sounds like the moste people here cant argue and go off topic. My intention was to think about it and discuss what would change.
I dont want to talk about Darwin or the tears that will roll when you think of your class.
Except if P/D or D/D misses or his CnD gets evaded twice, they are out of init and pretty useless. Wait? Doesn’t mean a thief needs to play well and time his CnD’s perfectly or he will be sitting duck? Yup it does!
With teh cooldown system you don’t need to play as well. You can literally just spam attacks and skills as they come available if you like. With a thief, you cannot do that unless you want to run out of init very quickly and die.
Both have their advantages and disavantages. IMO, neither is more powerful than the other. It all depends on the player behind the class.
What? That entire argument makes no sense. If you miss a skill on any other profession or mistime a skill, it can come back to haunt you. Being primarily a Necromancer, I can’t tell you how many times someone dodged through all of my marks. The difference being that my marks have long CDs, so I’m forced to switch to Scepter/Dagger or wait for the CDs to expire. God forbid I miss Enfeebling Blood, too. That’s like 1000 damage per second that I miss by not having those skills connect. Other professions don’t have the luxury of spamming the same skill over and over because we can’t.
Also, Thief and Mesmer are the only professions that can stealth, break target lock, and reset a fight. Failing an attack, running out of initiative, and then running away while being stealthed is far too common.
Heartseeker, 0.5s CD
DB 0.5s CD
DD 1s CD,
CnD 2s CD.
Perfect.
Seriously though? Damage has to go up and durability. Infiltrator’s Arrow has to do damage or something other than blind, same with CG.
To be blunt, a mass overhaul that would create more balance issues than anything and set the game back.
My question ist, why should the Thief have a diffrent system than all other classes ?
I know many thief players would say the class cant exist without it. But lets discuss that issue.
In my oppinion the ini System should be changed to give all classes the same issue with managing cooldowns. In fact it will brake many players neck if they cant press 4 times the same skill just to do burst damage. But we all know that this is not the only way to play a thief and its not very trickery or clever played method. I think there are other good options like sword/dagger and so on. Of course everything will be diffrent an there will be other thinks to change with it.
So lets talk about it who can imagine that and what would have to be diffrend in skill, traits and of course playstyle.
Did you took intro consideration that , if ini system would be changed , thieves skills would be changed also. and since thieves should have most damage /burst since they are the "assasins " and warriors can hit 20k damage with HB, so please post your ideea here for thieves .
Mine is – thief with 3000 attack vs 3000 heavy armor target
1.backstab 5000 /hit – 12500 backstab – 10 sec cooldown
2.heartseeker 3000 /hit – 7500 critical – 5 sec cooldown
3.DB – add poison 7 seconds – 1500 damage /chill – 7 seconds / bleed 7 seconds 5000 damage – cooldown 10 seconds
4. dancing dagger – 4 targets 2500 damage – 5 sec cripple *- 6000 critical
5. cloack and dagger – 3500 damage – 8500 critical /5x vulnerability /3 sec stealth – 10 sec cooldown
The initiative system IS a cooldown system—just a “bigger picture” version.
Think about it: Whereas other classes have cool downs on individual skills (meaning there will always be skills coming off of CD’s for use), the thief has a cool down on all skills at the same time. If a thief burns through his initiative completely, he’s a sitting duck and can’t use ANY weapon skills. If any other class burns through his CD’s on one set, he can swap and use the other weapon set. Thief can swap all he wants, but once his initiative’s gone it’s pointless.
What seems to be disturbing people are thieves that know how to manage their massive CD. It’s a bigger weakness that can be (and is) a bigger strength when managed properly.
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all? When they want to stealth they use CnD but by the time they re-enage (3-4 sec later) they almost regen all the init they lost?
How about BS build where BS doesnt even cost init. The total init cost of this burst is 6.
The advantages of the Init system far exceed that of every other classes cool down mechanic in this game. But I’m a realistic guy and I know this system will not change b/c they do not want to rebuild the class from the ground up. However, don’t come here and tell me it’s a “bigger picture cool down” when some builds basically counter the “weakness” of this system.
You’re ignoring the bigger picture.
Initiative is a class mechanic. Steal is called one as well, but it’s complete garbage compared to that of other classes. You need to compare those things against the Ranger’s pet, or the Engineer’s 4 extra Utilities, or the Elementalist’s 4 different weapon sets, etc.
Any one of those things could just as easily be argued against as overpowered when you compare it against the fact that your own personal class has no pet, or 4 fewer Utilities, or only 2 weapon sets without considering anything else like a rational person.
But you don’t. Because like so many other people, you have some ridiculous vendetta against Thieves specifically.
yeah and i want a 10 seconds invul with 9 seconds cooldonw ;P. Be seriusly
i do not troll my friend
you want to add an cooldown to an 450 range leap (for an class who is supposed to have best mobility ingame, when warrior /guardian can leap at 600 +range). Cause i assume you want cooldowns cause heartseeker or C&D (wich will hit in best situation for 5000 damage in wvw . and you can already use it once at 4 seconds
