Guild Wars 2

If Stealth is so crucial to our class (you know, in a defensive category, part and parcel to being so “slippery” as the developers put it), answer me this…

Why does Stealth not drop target for channeled abilities? Why is it when I use it defensively to recover or re-position, it lets whoever I am fighting use it against me offensively?

Examples would be the Necromancer Blood Bubbles Leech (up or downed), Warrior Rifle Volley, or tracking me via ranged attacks regardless of line of sight, say if I run around the corner of a building?

Why does it cost me a cooldown, continued damage to me (and possible negation of any regeneration (i.e., “defense”)), and the enemy also gets continued awareness of me/my location (no “defense” there, either) when they use their channeled abilities through my Stealth? Yet it costs them nothing more than merely a cooldown upon finishing the channel.

Melee attacks, AOE, etc. through Stealth, sure and absolutely. Stealth does not (and should not) equal invulnerability. Lord knows we don’t get anything close to that. Channeled spells, however, should require a visible target.

I guess (what seems to be) the ongoing nerfing campaign to Thief weapon skills/abilities as a knee-jerk reaction to complaints could be taken easier if Stealth, as a “defense”, could be relied on more in some situations.

I never used stealth much, and since the feb patch almost not all. This is from a pve perspective, though.

In pve, previously, I could make it drop aggro if I made it do so ( it never just dropped aggro automatically for me, I had to position and distance myself for that). But no longer; exit stealth and enemies know exactly where you are. Exiting stealth now acts as a Taunt. This is in addition to hitting you with channeled attacks. So, I find stealth even more of a waste than ever, personally.

So, I dodge and evade like mad. I never even considered it a stealth class after I played it for a short while. Shadow Refuge is great for emergencies but aside from that, I find “stealth” completely underwhelming.

I can’t speak for wvw/pvp, I don’t get involved in that. But for pve I have found it to be unimpressive, and since the feb. patch I use it only because I can trait for some speed in stealth and condition removal.

Aside from that….no use for it personally. Just a big nothing. Dodging and evading is my thing, and quite fun, but I do miss the old ability to force it to dump aggro ( which was what I used it for when desired).

I’ve noticed fighting experienced people that they usually have a good idea of where you are in stealth. They don’t need a channelled attack to track you.

You can always restealth after the channel ends if you wanted to. Also, don’t forget that even though the channelled attack is tracking you, your opponent still needs to reselect your toon after you come out of stealth to target you again.

I would rather ANet fix the wonky pathing of Flanking Strike and get rid of some useless skills that nobody uses, like Vital Shot (Pistol 2) and Dancing Dagger (Dagger 4).

Yams.6082:

I’ve noticed fighting experienced people that they usually have a good idea of where you are in stealth. They don’t need a channelled attack to track you.

You can always restealth after the channel ends if you wanted to. Also, don’t forget that even though the channelled attack is tracking you, your opponent still needs to reselect your toon after you come out of stealth to target you again.

I would rather ANet fix the wonky pathing of Flanking Strike and get rid of some useless skills that nobody uses, like Vital Shot (Pistol 2) and Dancing Dagger (Dagger 4).

Hey hey chill out ! I use dancing dagger !

dancing dagger is fun for kiting

Brtiva.9721:

dancing dagger is fun for kiting

I use it for chasing ^^

Yams.6082:

You can always restealth after the channel ends if you wanted to. Also, don’t forget that even though the channelled attack is tracking you, your opponent still needs to reselect your toon after you come out of stealth to target you again.

Re-stealth? You are operating under the assumption that you live, or after which you had already taken additional damage that your “defense” should have helped you with, yet now you are targetable for 4 seconds. That is assuming you have another stealth skill available to use or you have favorable positioning to do so (CnD).

I wish I could stand there and lazily do damage with my channel and watch my toon’s head swivel in the direction of my kind-of invisible target, completely negating the core ability and “defense” my enemy’s class was based around.

Karolis.4261:

Brtiva.9721:

dancing dagger is fun for kiting

I use it for chasing ^^

very nice as well!

They need to fix it so channeled abilities lose target since they gave us a 4 sec reveal debuff.

I’ve lost fights due to this bullkitten.

Can we get a developer response on this? This just seems ridiculous with everything else we have to deal with, to completely have “defense” negated in this manner.

This could be the entire reason that they decided against the revealed everytime you exit stealth since it’s already weak against channeled skills and experienced players.

I cannot honestly believe channeled spells through Stealth is actually intended.

Even I want to even have a small chance to live, I have to waste my dodges (if I have any) or hope that I can LOS the attack (because that’s always convenient).

It would be a shame if they did not adjust it in some way (for the Thief’s benefit :p) and/or leave it like it is now.

Im abusing this daily with dual pistols, if i couldnt shoot other thieves through stealth with unload, i wouldnt be able to kill them.

Does that mean dual pistol need fix or channeled abilities?

Rissou.7213:

Im abusing this daily with dual pistols, if i couldnt shoot other thieves through stealth with unload, i wouldnt be able to kill them.

Does that mean dual pistol need fix or channeled abilities?

I am sure you’ve used it on me. Or someone like you. Maybe if Unload stopped its channel immediately on losing target? Although you would lose the initiative as well, not sure how to recover from that…would be the same thing if your channel got interrupted, perhaps.

Stealth offers a thief exactly the same protection to a channeled attack as to an instant attack. Don’t be the target when it activates. Remember that a channeled skill is static for a long period of time, it offers no defense, needs the right facing, and it can be interrupted. This already makes them frequently weaker than most instant attacks.

Stealth is not a soft interrupt to a channeled skill. Neither is blind, aegis, or a single dodge and they don’t need fixing either. Use an hard interrupt to counter a channeled skill.

Stooperdale.3560:

Stealth offers a thief exactly the same protection to a channeled attack as to an instant attack. Don’t be the target when it activates. Remember that a channeled skill is static for a long period of time, it offers no defense, needs the right facing, and it can be interrupted. This already makes them frequently weaker than most instant attacks.

Stealth is not a soft interrupt to a channeled skill. Neither is blind, aegis, or a single dodge and they don’t need fixing either. Use an hard interrupt to counter a channeled skill.

Saying don’t be the target when it activates is akin to insinuating that I can read the player’s mind and preemptively use Stealth (ignoring that I am Revealed, right?)

I have seen Volley start (I was in melee range) and continue to channel/damage me and pivot a Warrior while I was running around him in Stealth (out in the open). By all means, name the hard interrupt I would have used on him at the time as anything but S/P?

An instant attack is just that. Instant and (in Stealth) can be ranged easily in Stealth. Not so with channeled attacks.

Personally i stopped using offhand dagger completely and traded it for a pistol offhand (making it dagger/pistol).

Because of this I now stop channels with pistol 4 before i stealth, problem quite frankly solved in my case.

Vyxion.6358:

Personally i stopped using offhand dagger completely and traded it for a pistol offhand (making it dagger/pistol).

Because of this I now stop channels with pistol 4 before i stealth, problem quite frankly solved in my case.

So how much initiative do you have mate?

No disrespect but i’ma call bullkitten on this one

This is intended just as much as it is intended that you take damage from aoe’s while in stealth: Stealth is just that, invisible to enemy. It’s not invulnerability.
Stop complaining about it and learn to deal with it (hint: you can dodge while in stealth).

Jinks.2057:

Vyxion.6358:

Personally i stopped using offhand dagger completely and traded it for a pistol offhand (making it dagger/pistol).

Because of this I now stop channels with pistol 4 before i stealth, problem quite frankly solved in my case.

So how much initiative do you have mate?

No disrespect but i’ma call bullkitten on this one

Headshot = 4 + Black Powder = 6 + Heartseeker = 3

The above sequence requires 10 Initiative.

Without 15 in Trickery, Initiative is 12. The only option would be to Headshot (assuming D/P) if you have the Initiative.

With 15 in Trickery, Initiative is 15. Headshot still required, but more Initiative buffer (hopefully).

Point being, I’ll save some Initiative for Headshot for channels.

Thanks for the heads-up, Vyxion. Much appreciated.

@Master of Timespace: I totally see your point with channeled AOE (same principle), but dodges are finite, lol.

I will be honest in that coming from S/x, I tend to forget about Headshot. ._.

@Master of Timespace: I totally see your point with channeled AOE (same principle), but dodges are finite, lol.

Ya, of course dodges are finite. If you are out of dodges when a warrior channels volley, then that’s just too bad. Stealth is not and should not be your magical counter button against everything. Thief mechanics are already way too noob-friendly.

ps. As a thief player I’m amazed that some people think channeled skills need a nerf.

For the most part very few people will actually try utilizing this against you, if your just stomping around WvW (roaming or actually with a group) the moment you stealth people will tend to instantly forget you where ever there.

But for completions sake if you actually walk behind someone else while stealthed (granted not doable if your solo roaming, but thats your own fault for going solo in a group based arena) while the channel is going the channel should then start hitting them instead freeing you up to use the remaining second or two to do whatever else. Heck I think that works even without stealth but yeah…

If your against people who have played thieves or learnt to fight em channeled chasing stealth is going to be the least of your worries.

Master of Timespace.2548:

@Master of Timespace: I totally see your point with channeled AOE (same principle), but dodges are finite, lol.

Ya, of course dodges are finite. If you are out of dodges when a warrior channels volley, then that’s just too bad. Stealth is not and should not be your magical counter button against everything. Thief mechanics are already way too noob-friendly.

ps. As a thief player I’m amazed that some people think channeled skills need a nerf.

Naturally, I wrote my post in frustration. I have no desire for an IWIN button and I am not trying to insert too much logic in a fantasy game. Channeled skills that require a target is what I am specifying.

Vyxion mentioned Headshot as a counter, which I had totally spaced out on, and I’ll roll with that. There are other Thief things that require much more attention.

xmtrcv.5236:

Master of Timespace.2548:

@Master of Timespace: I totally see your point with channeled AOE (same principle), but dodges are finite, lol.

Ya, of course dodges are finite. If you are out of dodges when a warrior channels volley, then that’s just too bad. Stealth is not and should not be your magical counter button against everything. Thief mechanics are already way too noob-friendly.

ps. As a thief player I’m amazed that some people think channeled skills need a nerf.

Naturally, I wrote my post in frustration. I have no desire for an IWIN button and I am not trying to insert too much logic in a fantasy game. Channeled skills that require a target is what I am specifying.

Vyxion mentioned Headshot as a counter, which I had totally spaced out on, and I’ll roll with that. There are other Thief things that require much more attention.

Glad i could help

@jinx: I don’t play the silly 25-30-0-0-15 build. I play 0-30-20-20-0. My initiative is fine. Never been an issue.