Guild Wars 2

Agenteusa.6380:

Exactly for which reason if an autoattack hits harder than a certain skill something is wrong?
There are plenty of examples of autoattacks that hits harder than another skill in the same bar, but it doesn’t mean that this skill is weak.

Your perception, in my opinion, is biased. The nerf were fair, you also obtained buffs to strategic skills like smoke bomb, scoprion wire or smoke screen, so it is quite clear that ANet has no hate against your profession.

Let me tell you I’m not biased cause I play all classes except the ranger and dedicate time to each of them. In fact the thief is not even my main.

Second I really don’t think CnD nerf makes a whole lot of change. I know my numbers it’s not because of 3k you’re going to avoid that but that is a different debate and I don’t want to go there. And if you need a HS might as well just auto attack and save the initiative (depending on how your AA hits).

The reason I think an AA should’t hit harder than PW for instance is basically cost. Why you ask, if PW has an evade and a stun. True that but in a perfect world (and god know I don’t play with Toughness or Vitality on my thief in pve for instance) I wouldn’t want to have mob attention on me. So why should I use PW if it’s situational and hits for less than a skill that costs 0 , also applies debuffs and even refunds initiative if specced?

Again, some bomb, meh, scorpion wire, even more meh since lots of mobs are linked anyway, smoke screen was a nice buff I agree. This in pve.

Pvp wise SW is quite good, smoke bomb is still a bit short imo and smoke screen is also highly situational because of positioning issues.

What I meant is not that the thief is nerfed to death at this point. We are still very good if played correctly. I just feel from past mmo experiences that we are disliked and will be given a nerf bat in the following months but that is speculation.

ArenaNet has proved many times that they nerf based on accurate analiysis rather than preferences, so I think that your concerns are unfounded.

About PW, don’t understimate the evade and the stun. In fact, PW allows you, in combination with shadowsteps, stealth or evade-backward skills (I’m talking about Roll for Initiative-like skills) to burst out decent damage without getting hit. While your autoattack leave you exposed, which is a really bad thing when talking about thieves, PW damage is nearly risk-free. This is the added value to PW, which explains why autoattack deals more damage. Obviously there are situations where using your autoattack is a better choice, but isn’t that as it should be? Isn’t right that any skill should have its place and its situation when it is right to be used, autoattack also?

Isn’t right that any skill should have its place and its situation when it is right to be used, autoattack also?

Well generally in mmo’s auto attack is only used when you can’t use anything else. At least all the past mmo’s I played fall under that category.

And I acknowledge your explanation but why would you use PW while stealthed?

The prob here is I’m throwing into the mix pve and pvp so I will agree with you on the pvp side. Pve I don’t feel PW should deal less dmg than auto attack specially cause I aim to run with premades where 2 people share the aggro most of the time( and yes it’s possible ).

PvP wise yes I think PW can be much more useful than AA .

Well, it was quite obvious that Guild Wars 2 isn’t the general MMO

I was not talking about using PW while stealthed, I was saying about using PW and than kite the damage with Stealth, Shadowsteps and evades-backward.
You can use Pistol Whip as a safe damage dealer also in PvE, reducing the risk to nearly zero, while most other skills leave you exposed to any form of damage.
It is quite obvious that the time you are most exposed to damage is the time in which you are dealing damage, but PW hasn’t this downside because of the evade, and this means a lot both in PvP and in PvE.

sorrow.2364:

Devildoc.6721:

Not yet, but backstab nerf is in the works, the C&D nerf was just the first step. the nerfs are coming. I actually called the DD, Cluster Bomb, and C&D nerfs.. and I’m actually sad that I was right.

Have you got any proof in support of what you are saying or is that your apocalyptic view of ArenaNet plans?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/first

Look for the red post.

I thought condition builds used to be bad too. This is coming from a former Backstab thief

CD > backstab

You can easily handle 1vmultiples

Backstab sucks after the first kill. When I was using backstab, I would only look out for squishies & under level 80. I would never target certain mesmers, some warriors/guardians/some tank eles. I used to love assassinating commanders with ease, though. I miss doing that…

Agemnon.4608:

Killshot and 100 blades were left alone and warriors actually got a buff! Lol that’s a surprise, Anet sure are pros when it comes to balancing classes!

But seriously, moral of the story: complaining on forums is a more viable strategy than learning how to play. Why try outdoing your opponent when you can just cry for fundamental gameplay changes?

People still complaining they can’t dodge, LoS, etc HB or killshot.

I’m a thief, played the backstab build, played the ranged cannon build, played the cond build, played the S/D build. Did it all! I don’t mind the CnD nerf at all. I guess some people who don’t want to move after they did #5, F1, #1, F (or other hotkeys) are mad but I understand why ANet would nerf a 15-20k damage chain in under 1s.
And to be honest I still think they should fix the fact that you can precast CnD before popping steal.

That being said I also would like to say there are plenty of other classes that are messed up. If Thieves shouldn’t be able to do 15k damage in a short amount of time to glass builds (you know the kind of builds that go high risk/high reward by sacrificing all kinds of survivability) then a Warrior shouldn’t be able to do a 10k volley that follows me into stealth, or a hasted 100b for 16-19k in 1,5s.
Now I know, I know, I should just get stunbreakers right? So maybe I should just use the Evade heal skill, roll for initiative AND shadowstep on my utility because you never know when you will get slammed by the next 100b warrior using his Bulls Charge after you succesfully dodged two of them and had to use a stunbreaker on the third..

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

Kabooky.8071:

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

I performed a backstab hit over a milion dmg, does that mean that my Thief is OP?
No, it mean that I have hit a rabbit only…..

STRanger.5120:

Kabooky.8071:

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

I performed a backstab hit over a milion dmg, does that mean that my Thief is OP?
No, it mean that I have hit a rabbit only…..

I just got killed by a thief and didnt see anything, til he stomped me. The whole thing happened so fast i didnt even have time to dodge… I have almost 20k hp with 2600 armor, am i a rabbit???

masztipapa.7519:

STRanger.5120:

Kabooky.8071:

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

I performed a backstab hit over a milion dmg, does that mean that my Thief is OP?
No, it mean that I have hit a rabbit only…..

I just got killed by a thief and didnt see anything, til he stomped me. The whole thing happened so fast i didnt even have time to dodge… I have almost 20k hp with 2600 armor, am i a rabbit???

How did you not see him ? He was invisible? No he wasn’t.
I could come up whit one of these stories of my own.
watch me..
I just got killed by a warrior and didn’t see anything , till he stomped me.The while thing happened so fast i didn’t even have time to dodge.Kill shot from 1200 range.Man warriors are so OP.No they are not , they are a joke and so are BS thieves and you 2.

Kabooky.8071:

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

And you’re a fully geared, non-glass cannon lvl 80?

NightyNight.1823:

masztipapa.7519:

STRanger.5120:

Kabooky.8071:

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

I performed a backstab hit over a milion dmg, does that mean that my Thief is OP?
No, it mean that I have hit a rabbit only…..

I just got killed by a thief and didnt see anything, til he stomped me. The whole thing happened so fast i didnt even have time to dodge… I have almost 20k hp with 2600 armor, am i a rabbit???

How did you not see him ? He was invisible? No he wasn’t.
I could come up whit one of these stories of my own.
watch me..
I just got killed by a warrior and didn’t see anything , till he stomped me.The while thing happened so fast i didn’t even have time to dodge.Kill shot from 1200 range.Man warriors are so OP.No they are not , they are a joke and so are BS thieves and you 2.

I explain it to u if u never played a thief, cast cnd→steal→cnd hit→backstab=dead, never saw him since he uses that build because he can time the steal to the end of the cast and u never see him comin, except if hes stupid enough to do it in front of u…

I do play thief and theres no way I could loose to those kind of thieves ,ever.Learn the class don’t complain.

masztipapa.7519:

I explain it to u if u never played a thief, cast cnd->steal->cnd hit->backstab=dead, never saw him since he uses that build because he can time the steal to the end of the cast and u never see him comin, except if hes stupid enough to do it in front of u…

I explain it to you, if you never read the forums actually nor played a Thief
The “never saw him” issue is actually a engine/server rendering bug, that has nothing to do with Thief class, so don´t even try to push something because of it (FYI it applies for everyone, but mostly for Thieves and Mesmers, cause their stealth abilities).

And if you´re running WvW on your own, it´s unfortunately your own fault that you get killed like that, WvW =/= 1vs1. It´s a team based play, siege capturing and stuff. If you want to roam, go sPvP/tPvP. That´s all, folks…

I do know the rendering issue, and it was in spvp not wvw, i also have a 60+ thief… Its pretty much a futile defending the backstab spec when every non-thief main player consider it nerf material.

masztipapa.7519:

Its pretty much a futile defending the backstab spec when every non-thief main player consider it nerf material.

ANet doesn’t agree, apparently, since they decided to nerf thief control-based builds while leaving bursty instakill specs intact.

masztipapa.7519:

I do know the rendering issue, and it was in spvp not wvw, i also have a 60+ thief… Its pretty much a futile defending the backstab spec when every non-thief main player consider it nerf material.

It was in sPvP? I´m so sorry for you then, you should look around a bit, you know? The situational awareness is one of the most important things for sPvP/tPvP and it is not the Thiefs fault that you don´t pay attention. The warrior or most of the other classes will kill you just as fast if you don´t know they´re coming….

Every? have evidence to back up that statement? Sorry bro..its just you.And a tiny tiny ammount of people that consider it over powered.The fact is..Anet looked into it , the nerfs came , it was done little to nothing about it .Thats leaves you whit only 1 conclusion.BackStab is fine.

Devildoc.6721:

sorrow.2364:

Devildoc.6721:

Not yet, but backstab nerf is in the works, the C&D nerf was just the first step. the nerfs are coming. I actually called the DD, Cluster Bomb, and C&D nerfs.. and I’m actually sad that I was right.

Have you got any proof in support of what you are saying or is that your apocalyptic view of ArenaNet plans?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/first

Look for the red post.

It was pre 15th November patch, so the nerf bat has already spoken on CnD.
Still waiting for proofs.

sorrow.2364:

Devildoc.6721:

sorrow.2364:

Devildoc.6721:

Not yet, but backstab nerf is in the works, the C&D nerf was just the first step. the nerfs are coming. I actually called the DD, Cluster Bomb, and C&D nerfs.. and I’m actually sad that I was right.

Have you got any proof in support of what you are saying or is that your apocalyptic view of ArenaNet plans?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/first

Look for the red post.

It was pre 15th November patch, so the nerf bat has already spoken on CnD.
Still waiting for proofs.

Do you seriously think patches with changes get pushed out that fast? They don’t put in a change in a week after they say they’re going to, it takes a few weeks, the November changes had been in works for a month or more.

Backstab is still on the agenda, they’re still looking at it.

Devildoc.6721:

Do you seriously think patches with changes get pushed out that fast? They don’t put in a change in a week after they say they’re going to, it takes a few weeks, the November changes had been in works for a month or more.
Backstab is still on the agenda, they’re still looking at it.

I don´t want to offend anybody, but do you really believe that there is weeks of testing before the patches are pushed to clients?
Look at the Elementalists after this patches, more accurately at their Evasive Arcana and Dragon´s tooth fixes. That wasn´t been tested at all, because those two skills basically don´t work for the most part (both should perform blast finisher – there was fix for them due to unintended behavior – both of them have lost the finishers completely!!! Which seems kinda non-tested to me.)

Devildoc.6721:

Do you seriously think patches with changes get pushed out that fast? They don’t put in a change in a week after they say they’re going to, it takes a few weeks, the November changes had been in works for a month or more.

Backstab is still on the agenda, they’re still looking at it.

1. You are assuming that they actually test a change like the CnD nerf for 1+ weeks.
2. You are assuming that they have decided to nerf the backstab combo after they posted that.

Too many assumption to be considered a proof.