Guild Wars 2

This recent nerf did little to address what I see as the real problem with Theifs and whether it really was or wasn’t necessary is not something I will or can comment on.

The fact that a thief can wait for Stealth to wear off naturally, attack you and then go right back into stealth with Cloak and Dagger allows stealth to be chained endlessly. Now, granted you aren’t going to stand there and wait for them to keep attacking you but it’s like Ele bunker builds there’s nothing you can really do to take them down. And in spvp I assume you need to be able to take players down in some cases.

As a solution, I feel, a Reveal “like” debuf should be applied when coming out of stealth from Cloak and Dagger naturally. If you use a different Stealth skill while still stealthed from CaD, the debuf could then be dropped from occurring, should you let stealth wear off naturally in this case. This way stealth skills are not affected and perma invis is stopped.

Maybe someone else can explain why this single skill is not excessive or over powered…
because I don’t understand how it is not the focus of anet’s attention, in regards to Theif.

That single skill is excessive and overpowered when used in that way.

Unfortunately rather than target the cheese/exploitative behaviour (CnD chaining, out of combat combo abuse etc etc) they’d rather do sweeping nerfs to mechanics in a way that effects off-spec builds and the weaker areas of thieves (PvE for instance) than address them.

Hey guys, I know that some people are frustrated about the CnD spamming thieves, but honestly, no thief is going to kill you with only CnD. Unless you’re just unfortunate I should say. Thieves can spam the skill to stay alive when they are low health, but it isn’t enough DPS to kill another player unless they are upleveled. If you’re being defeated by thieves who just spam CnD on you, I would recommend trying to learn how to counter thieves properly. If you have any questions on how to do so, just ask!

Fey Zeal.7032:

The fact that a thief can wait for Stealth to wear off naturally, attack you and then go right back into stealth with Cloak and Dagger allows stealth to be chained endlessly.

Now, granted you aren’t going to stand there and wait for them to keep attacking you

These two statements contradict each other. If he can’t hit you with CnD, he can’t stealth. With the new culling fix, unless he had precise, unhumanlike timing down to the millisecond you should easily have enough time to dodge that CnD. Dodging two of those will waste 10 initiative, minus the 1-2 he gains during that time

A perma stealth thief wont be able to kill you, get over it your prey ran away.
Stealth is a survival mechanism, if you lack the aoe skills to flush it out, then its your own fault.

Rizzy.8293:

A perma stealth thief wont be able to kill you, get over it your prey ran away.
Stealth is a survival mechanism, if you lack the aoe skills to flush it out, then its your own fault.

This. If you’re seriously standing still for like 40 seconds being cloak and daggered to death…that’s not a class/balance problem, that’s a skill+learn to play issue…

Just dodge around/use AOE…remember thieves can be hurt while in stealth, which a lot of people seem to forget. They aren’t invincible in stealth regardless of what the QQers here would have you believe!

Fey Zeal.7032:

This recent nerf did little to address what I see as the real problem with Theifs and whether it really was or wasn’t necessary is not something I will or can comment on.

The fact that a thief can wait for Stealth to wear off naturally, attack you and then go right back into stealth with Cloak and Dagger allows stealth to be chained endlessly. Now, granted you aren’t going to stand there and wait for them to keep attacking you but it’s like Ele bunker builds there’s nothing you can really do to take them down. And in spvp I assume you need to be able to take players down in some cases.

As a solution, I feel, a Reveal “like” debuf should be applied when coming out of stealth from Cloak and Dagger naturally. If you use a different Stealth skill while still stealthed from CaD, the debuf could then be dropped from occurring, should you let stealth wear off naturally in this case. This way stealth skills are not affected and perma invis is stopped.

Maybe someone else can explain why this single skill is not excessive or over powered…
because I don’t understand how it is not the focus of anet’s attention, in regards to Theif.

Doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me. Return the revealed to 3s and target the actual problem instead of trying to use a hammer to take out a splinter.

Fey Zeal.7032:

This recent nerf did little to address what I see as the real problem with Theifs and whether it really was or wasn’t necessary is not something I will or can comment on.

The fact that a thief can wait for Stealth to wear off naturally, attack you and then go right back into stealth with Cloak and Dagger allows stealth to be chained endlessly. Now, granted you aren’t going to stand there and wait for them to keep attacking you but it’s like Ele bunker builds there’s nothing you can really do to take them down. And in spvp I assume you need to be able to take players down in some cases.

As a solution, I feel, a Reveal “like” debuf should be applied when coming out of stealth from Cloak and Dagger naturally. If you use a different Stealth skill while still stealthed from CaD, the debuf could then be dropped from occurring, should you let stealth wear off naturally in this case. This way stealth skills are not affected and perma invis is stopped.

Maybe someone else can explain why this single skill is not excessive or over powered…
because I don’t understand how it is not the focus of anet’s attention, in regards to Theif.

Because unlike the Ele bunker you mention, the thief doesn’t capture points nor contest them while he does that and he does little damage and he doesn’t heal his allies around him at the same time?

avilo.1942:

Rizzy.8293:

A perma stealth thief wont be able to kill you, get over it your prey ran away.
Stealth is a survival mechanism, if you lack the aoe skills to flush it out, then its your own fault.

This. If you’re seriously standing still for like 40 seconds being cloak and daggered to death…that’s not a class/balance problem, that’s a skill+learn to play issue…

Just dodge around/use AOE…remember thieves can be hurt while in stealth, which a lot of people seem to forget. They aren’t invincible in stealth regardless of what the QQers here would have you believe!

Maybe because inVISIble and inVINCIble sound alike.

Fey Zeal.7032:

This recent nerf did little to address what I see as the real problem with Theifs and whether it really was or wasn’t necessary is not something I will or can comment on.

The fact that a thief can wait for Stealth to wear off naturally, attack you and then go right back into stealth with Cloak and Dagger allows stealth to be chained endlessly. Now, granted you aren’t going to stand there and wait for them to keep attacking you but it’s like Ele bunker builds there’s nothing you can really do to take them down. And in spvp I assume you need to be able to take players down in some cases.

As a solution, I feel, a Reveal “like” debuf should be applied when coming out of stealth from Cloak and Dagger naturally. If you use a different Stealth skill while still stealthed from CaD, the debuf could then be dropped from occurring, should you let stealth wear off naturally in this case. This way stealth skills are not affected and perma invis is stopped.

Maybe someone else can explain why this single skill is not excessive or over powered…
because I don’t understand how it is not the focus of anet’s attention, in regards to Theif.

Them doing that is really a non issue.

1) As others have pointed out, C&D alone isn’t actually going to kill anyone.

2) As you pointed out yourself, no one is actually going to stand there and let a thief do it. You know they will be standing right next to you, ON A TIMER. There’s any number of things you can do you disrupt or attack the thief with that information and turn the tables. Even just a simple dodge leaves the thief visible and initiative starved because they don’t get the ini refund on C&D for successfully stealthing.

3) You compare it to not being able to kill a bunker Elementalist in sPvP. The bunker ele is massively more powerful in sPvP because they can 100% contest points while being unkillable. A thief being unkillable through chain stealth doesn’t contest the point at all while in stealth. For the purpose of winning the game, they accomplish nothing outside of just being a distraction.

If a thief is chain stealthing, and you do not feel that you can catch or kill them, just let them run away. They aren’t doing any serious harm to anyone while they chain stealth and aren’t contesting any objectives either.

Ensign.2189:

That single skill is excessive and overpowered when used in that way.

Really?

So lets see, with what you are stating, it pretty much comes across as “Thieves being able to stay permastealthed and do a minimal amount of damage that can be easily countered with heals when they are off cooldown is OP!”.

This translates to “That Thief just toys with me and CnD’s me then runs away and waves and then comes back to do it again. Toying with me is OP!”.

Your statement in this manner constitues an absolute 0 amount of relativity and will surely end in yet another forum that goes absolutely nowhere!

Hurrah to OP CnD natural drops that allow Thievs to chuckle at me while I wait to see if they are really going to do anything….

Ensign.2189:

That single skill is excessive and overpowered when used in that way.

I dont know if I mentioned it in the previous thread but… That ability is also useless to a Thief when used in that manner !