Guild Wars 2

Just wondering what the new D/D “Meta” PvE build is going to be come Tuesday. I figured I’d ask the professionals who play and know so much more than me.

Thanks!

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

In the garbage can for the average player yes. Since most will just go D/P, cause why not?

Faction.4013:

Just wondering what the new D/D “Meta” build is going to be come Tuesday. I figured I’d ask the professionals who play and know so much more than me.

Thanks!

if u mean pvp it doesnt exist if u mean pve something like this http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBfAJkA6g~
critical strikes adapt and master and even gm depend on the situation
and shadow arts vs other trait lines depend on use for the thief too (stealth for skips vs evades for solos/hard encounters) but im not a theorycrafter

Watson.6492:

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

Whatever you say…You must be a hoot at parties.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

if u mean pvp it doesnt exist if u mean pve something like this http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBfAJkA6g~
critical strikes adapt and master and even gm depend on the situation
and shadow arts vs other trait lines depend on use for the thief too (stealth for skips vs evades for solos/hard encounters) but im not a theorycrafter

That’ll get me started. Thank you very much!

Faction.4013:

Watson.6492:

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

Whatever you say…You must be a hoot at parties.

The party don’t start til’ I walk in.

Watson.6492:

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

This thread’s about PvE, which D/D is the best possible thief weapon set combination for in regards to bosses, and one of the best in the game in general.

If I were into speed runs enough to care to change my build, I’d probably try something like this:

Skills and Gear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8al0MpvpFOx7J0PJBAAsN0GA-TVCBABVcQAqZ/hKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HY4IAEwJAAA-w

Traits:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcB3ALkBeg~

Huge might and permanent fury access through the trapping traits with Shadow Pursuit off of Shadow Trap for 15 stacks of might with permanent fury from NQ, reset trap cd’s through steal/thrill and maintenance of high might from Sigil of Strength maintaining what is likely to be around 12 from itself.

The build should be maintaining permanent 12-25 stacks of might and permanent fury uptime.

DeceiverX.8361:

This thread’s about PvE, which D/D is the best possible thief weapon set combination for in regards to bosses, and one of the best in the game in general.

If I were into speed runs enough to care to change my build, I’d probably try something like this:

Skills and Gear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8al0MpvpFOx7J0PJBAAsN0GA-TVCBABVcQAqZ/hKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HY4IAEwJAAA-w

Traits:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcB3ALkBeg~

Huge might and permanent fury access through the trapping traits with Shadow Pursuit off of Shadow Trap for 15 stacks of might with permanent fury from NQ, reset trap cd’s through steal/thrill and maintenance of high might from Sigil of Strength maintaining what is likely to be around 12 from itself.

The build should be maintaining permanent 12-25 stacks of might and permanent fury uptime.

kitten . Strength Runes are hella-expensive too. Guess I’ll start saving, because the skills are almost exactly what I run right now, except I use Blinding Powder instead of the Trap (I also use Thieves Guild…). So it’ll be almost the EXACT same thing, save for one or two traits, really.

I thank you very much, as well!

Watson.6492:

Faction.4013:

Watson.6492:

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

Whatever you say…You must be a hoot at parties.

The party don’t start til’ I walk in.

Yeah…it must be that charming personality you have…

I imagine it’ll look something like http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvAJkBaQ~
you’ve got the best total flat damage increase rates, you might be taking dagger training over mug, idk honestly, but it seems the best set-up for fast damage and quick nukes on bosses in pve. For pvp, meta will probably continue to be D/P but I’m sure there will be a lot larger variance in traits people can use. I’d imagine critical strikes being included in most of them, but we’ll see.

DeceiverX.8361:

This thread’s about PvE, which D/D is the best possible thief weapon set combination for in regards to bosses, and one of the best in the game in general.

If I were into speed runs enough to care to change my build, I’d probably try something like this:

Skills and Gear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8al0MpvpFOx7J0PJBAAsN0GA-TVCBABVcQAqZ/hKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HY4IAEwJAAA-w

Traits:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcB3ALkBeg~

Huge might and permanent fury access through the trapping traits with Shadow Pursuit off of Shadow Trap for 15 stacks of might with permanent fury from NQ, reset trap cd’s through steal/thrill and maintenance of high might from Sigil of Strength maintaining what is likely to be around 12 from itself.

The build should be maintaining permanent 12-25 stacks of might and permanent fury uptime.

the trap build is a really really nice idea considering there is really nothing else to pick in deadly arts adept. gj i will keep an eye on this. but i dont think recourceful trapper is a complete cooldown reset

A few traits are still TBD, but it’ll still be very similar to what you run now – Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes, Trickery with Scholar runes.

Faction.4013:

Just wondering what the new D/D “Meta” PvE build is going to be come Tuesday. I figured I’d ask the professionals who play and know so much more than me.

Thanks!

There is still a lingering problem that would determine the viability of each build.

For example, in a ’zerker set, I choose to allocate 6pts into DA. That will give me +300 power and +30% condition duration.

After the patch, I’ll lose that +300 power and +30% condition duration from the trait line.

The question is, will they add those value into the ’zerker set?

If they do, then I can spec 00666 + ’zerker and have my build as if I have 6pts into DA.
If not, ’zerker is dead as we know it.

Do you see where this is going?

Now, since we have not seen any information about the gears — all hell breaks lose after the patch because ArenaNet took another big bite that is more than they can chew.

I mean seriously, they’ll be releasing the patch tomorrow and no mention about the gears?

DeceiverX.8361:

Watson.6492:

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

This thread’s about PvE, which D/D is the best possible thief weapon set combination for in regards to bosses, and one of the best in the game in general.

If I were into speed runs enough to care to change my build, I’d probably try something like this:

Skills and Gear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8al0MpvpFOx7J0PJBAAsN0GA-TVCBABVcQAqZ/hKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HY4IAEwJAAA-w

Traits:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcB3ALkBeg~

Huge might and permanent fury access through the trapping traits with Shadow Pursuit off of Shadow Trap for 15 stacks of might with permanent fury from NQ, reset trap cd’s through steal/thrill and maintenance of high might from Sigil of Strength maintaining what is likely to be around 12 from itself.

The build should be maintaining permanent 12-25 stacks of might and permanent fury uptime.

I don’t see how this build reaches 25 stacks of might. You state 15 stacks from traps but you do realize resourceful trapper does not reset traps to 0cd but reduces traps, probably by a few seconds from its cd. Also, I think trappers respite will only trigger on use, hence when you activate shadow pursuit. Nothing in the tooltip suggests it will trigger twice. As such I can’t see more than 5 stacks of might for 12 or so seconds from traps and 5 stacks from pistol sigil (but most players don;t have s/p and d/d at same time, it’s usually one or the other because shortbow’s 2 is too good to give up for mobility and most importantly the blast finisher for stealth/might stacking). The might and fury are also personal and provide no support to a pve group. Furthermore, you have given up assassins signet (180 power) which is an awful lot. Not forgetting warriors and ele’s can keep more stacks of might up easier than thieves and they can do it for the group.

@ OP – if the meta remains zerker the build will be similar to the current i.e. full zerker with scholars. Core specializations traits are likely to be this: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBfALkBag~

Utilities likely to be assasins signet, agility signet and haste.

Trickery is the only other line with a dps boost (lead attacks – upto 15%) and it appears flanking strike gives haste (the ability = 6s quickness + fury) and can be traited with trickster (20% reduced cd on tricks + tricks remove 1 condi) so that’s 12s every 48s or 25% quickness uptime.

There is no reason to take shadow arts or acro for dps focused builds because they offer little to no significant dps boost. I’m more curious to see the dps output of a full sinister thief with caltrops and death blossom spam. I think that build could be highly effective but we’ll see.

I’ve always preferred D/D. You just gotta know how to handle two D’s.

With gear and base stats receiving some buffs to make up for the removal of stats from trait lines, the gear mix will likely be the same - a mix of ascended assassin’s and berserker’s to optimize the offensive stats, of course factoring in consumables. Upgrades as far as we know will remain the same.

As for the traits it’s pretty obvious. Both offensive lines, and Trickery because it’s the only trait line besides Deadly Arts that kept its increased damage modifier minor trait. I imagine it’d be something like this: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g33;2ZwVb0K5N-kd0;9;4IJM;0158246146H

Impact.2780:

With gear and base stats receiving some buffs to make up for the removal of stats from trait lines, the gear mix will likely be the same – a mix of ascended assassin’s and berserker’s to optimize the offensive stats, of course factoring in consumables. Upgrades as far as we know will remain the same.

As for the traits it’s pretty obvious. Both offensive lines, and Trickery because it’s the only trait line besides Deadly Arts that kept its increased damage modifier minor trait. I imagine it’d be something like this: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g33;2ZwVb0K5N-kd0;9;4IJM;0158246146H

If you trait mug (which is a toss up between the dagger poison, need to see if perma weakness helps at all), having the 2k heal on a 19.5s cd is kinda a no brainer and thus taking the 20% steal reduc trait is best. 3 init every 10s is kinda meh and if this was the old tree we’d just stop at lead attacks ;p.

With regards to gear, thieves don’t need assassins gear in pve, full zerker and agility signet gets them to 62% base. 5% from hp >90% trait then fury = 20% gets them to 87%. They use to take 7% from side strike but flawless power is too good now. Still that’s 87% crit rate and with food you’re into the 90’s (was almost 100 with side strike). Even with the changes, because fury is permanent (watch some of the twitch streams – guy stacked minutes of fury!) it makes assasin’s gear even more redundant for thieves. For those who did want 100% or near enough, slot precise infusions instead of power.

Terra.8571:

DeceiverX.8361:

Watson.6492:

The new meta D/D build is going to be D/D in the garbage can where it has been for months upon months.

This thread’s about PvE, which D/D is the best possible thief weapon set combination for in regards to bosses, and one of the best in the game in general.

If I were into speed runs enough to care to change my build, I’d probably try something like this:

Skills and Gear:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoY8al0MpvpFOx7J0PJBAAsN0GA-TVCBABVcQAqZ/hKV/5MlgYp8DgHAQe6HY4IAEwJAAA-w

Traits:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcB3ALkBeg~

Huge might and permanent fury access through the trapping traits with Shadow Pursuit off of Shadow Trap for 15 stacks of might with permanent fury from NQ, reset trap cd’s through steal/thrill and maintenance of high might from Sigil of Strength maintaining what is likely to be around 12 from itself.

The build should be maintaining permanent 12-25 stacks of might and permanent fury uptime.

I don’t see how this build reaches 25 stacks of might. You state 15 stacks from traps but you do realize resourceful trapper does not reset traps to 0cd but reduces traps, probably by a few seconds from its cd. Also, I think trappers respite will only trigger on use, hence when you activate shadow pursuit. Nothing in the tooltip suggests it will trigger twice. As such I can’t see more than 5 stacks of might for 12 or so seconds from traps and 5 stacks from pistol sigil (but most players don;t have s/p and d/d at same time, it’s usually one or the other because shortbow’s 2 is too good to give up for mobility and most importantly the blast finisher for stealth/might stacking). The might and fury are also personal and provide no support to a pve group. Furthermore, you have given up assassins signet (180 power) which is an awful lot. Not forgetting warriors and ele’s can keep more stacks of might up easier than thieves and they can do it for the group.

@ OP – if the meta remains zerker the build will be similar to the current i.e. full zerker with scholars. Core specializations traits are likely to be this: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBfALkBag~

Utilities likely to be assasins signet, agility signet and haste.

Trickery is the only other line with a dps boost (lead attacks – upto 15%) and it appears flanking strike gives haste (the ability = 6s quickness + fury) and can be traited with trickster (20% reduced cd on tricks + tricks remove 1 condi) so that’s 12s every 48s or 25% quickness uptime.

There is no reason to take shadow arts or acro for dps focused builds because they offer little to no significant dps boost. I’m more curious to see the dps output of a full sinister thief with caltrops and death blossom spam. I think that build could be highly effective but we’ll see.

Didn’t know it wasn’t a full reset, though I suppose that would make it quite a bit more balanced. We’ll just have to look at the numbers once they’re revealed. Depending on what they are, and what can be done with boon duration food, it might be viable.

25 comes from the trap and the sigil. The sigil will provide reasonably around 10-12 stacks of might as long as the thief remains attacking. Respite gives 5 stacks when the trap triggers, and Shadow Pursuit, the second half of Shadow Trap, teleports you to your target and provides 10 stacks of might and 5 seconds of fury baseline. So one use of Shadow Trap = 15 stacks of might and fury which gets extended from No Quarter.

If the fight lasts longer than just a few seconds, the sigil has more of a benefit than force, night, or air. It isn’t group might, no, but that’s not what the thief does. A spec with DT and RT doesn’t provide any more group damage bonuses.

As far as group might-stacking, you’re very much right, and your build reflects the optimal DPS possible under the assumption other people are stacking and maintaining the permanent might for you. I didn’t build on that assumption.

Either way, the build is definitely 6/6/0/0/6, and if PT provides ferocity instead of vitality as it does now, it will be the choice made for most DPS builds. Otherwise the choice is obvious to move to Sundering Strikes unless the vitality is really called for, but that’s situational. I do wonder the benefits of using Uncatchable versus ToTC or Flanking Strikes as a bonus to damage dealt. I saw Thrill being a more reliable way to maintain the crit chance throughout the dungeon or in scenarios where CC or other non-attack sequences might cause it to start running low. That’s just me, though.

Didn’t know it wasn’t a full reset, though I suppose that would make it quite a bit more balanced. We’ll just have to look at the numbers once they’re revealed. Depending on what they are, and what can be done with boon duration food, it might be viable.

25 comes from the trap and the sigil. The sigil will provide reasonably around 10-12 stacks of might as long as the thief remains attacking. Respite gives 5 stacks when the trap triggers, and Shadow Pursuit, the second half of Shadow Trap, teleports you to your target and provides 10 stacks of might and 5 seconds of fury baseline. So one use of Shadow Trap = 15 stacks of might and fury which gets extended from No Quarter.

If the fight lasts longer than just a few seconds, the sigil has more of a benefit than force, night, or air. It isn’t group might, no, but that’s not what the thief does. A spec with DT and RT doesn’t provide any more group damage bonuses.

As far as group might-stacking, you’re very much right, and your build reflects the optimal DPS possible under the assumption other people are stacking and maintaining the permanent might for you. I didn’t build on that assumption.

Either way, the build is definitely 6/6/0/0/6, and if PT provides ferocity instead of vitality as it does now, it will be the choice made for most DPS builds. Otherwise the choice is obvious to move to Sundering Strikes unless the vitality is really called for, but that’s situational. I do wonder the benefits of using Uncatchable versus ToTC or Flanking Strikes as a bonus to damage dealt. I saw Thrill being a more reliable way to maintain the crit chance throughout the dungeon or in scenarios where CC or other non-attack sequences might cause it to start running low. That’s just me, though.

I’ve never noticed shadow trap has 10stacks of might on it, wow. Anyways, fury can be stacked for minutes according to one streamer with just the crit line traits (+/- haste, he was using flanking strike so I don;t know if this was needed). This kinda reduces the need for TotC as it gives only one might stack. Also, as haste gives 6s quickness and 6s fury, thats a lot more dps than without.

Ah right, forgot about the change where Haste is getting fury. Yea, ToTC probably not necessary, then. Could have sworn ANet mentioned giving No Quarter an ICD equal to the fury duration, though, but if it can really be stacked for such a long period, then yea, there’s no need for ToTC.

Yea, Shadow Trap is actually really strong on activation. It can even be used as the same thing as Infiltrator’s Return but with an added stunbreak (just no might/fury) to where the trap was put down if it’s not triggered. It’s just most PvP scenarios favor Shadowstep/signet and the might is really hard to get when most targets are smart enough not to try and rush you, or you need to rush them first instead.

Terra.8571:

Impact.2780:

With gear and base stats receiving some buffs to make up for the removal of stats from trait lines, the gear mix will likely be the same - a mix of ascended assassin’s and berserker’s to optimize the offensive stats, of course factoring in consumables. Upgrades as far as we know will remain the same.

As for the traits it’s pretty obvious. Both offensive lines, and Trickery because it’s the only trait line besides Deadly Arts that kept its increased damage modifier minor trait. I imagine it’d be something like this: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g33;2ZwVb0K5N-kd0;9;4IJM;0158246146H

If you trait mug (which is a toss up between the dagger poison, need to see if perma weakness helps at all), having the 2k heal on a 19.5s cd is kinda a no brainer and thus taking the 20% steal reduc trait is best. 3 init every 10s is kinda meh and if this was the old tree we’d just stop at lead attacks ;p.

With regards to gear, thieves don’t need assassins gear in pve, full zerker and agility signet gets them to 62% base. 5% from hp >90% trait then fury = 20% gets them to 87%. They use to take 7% from side strike but flawless power is too good now. Still that’s 87% crit rate and with food you’re into the 90’s (was almost 100 with side strike). Even with the changes, because fury is permanent (watch some of the twitch streams - guy stacked minutes of fury!) it makes assasin’s gear even more redundant for thieves. For those who did want 100% or near enough, slot precise infusions instead of power.

High weakness up-time isn’t all that good in PvE. A year ago when I was actually interested in this gear/DPS optimising for speed runs, I read a lot of threads, and did a lot of maths. There comes a point, with berserker’s, when assassin’s becomes more optimal because precision becomes worth more than power. This is due to power from a particular food, and bloodlust stacks increasing power, and the berserker’s gear also increasing precision and ferocity.

Impact.2780:

Terra.8571:

Impact.2780:

With gear and base stats receiving some buffs to make up for the removal of stats from trait lines, the gear mix will likely be the same – a mix of ascended assassin’s and berserker’s to optimize the offensive stats, of course factoring in consumables. Upgrades as far as we know will remain the same.

As for the traits it’s pretty obvious. Both offensive lines, and Trickery because it’s the only trait line besides Deadly Arts that kept its increased damage modifier minor trait. I imagine it’d be something like this: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g33;2ZwVb0K5N-kd0;9;4IJM;0158246146H

If you trait mug (which is a toss up between the dagger poison, need to see if perma weakness helps at all), having the 2k heal on a 19.5s cd is kinda a no brainer and thus taking the 20% steal reduc trait is best. 3 init every 10s is kinda meh and if this was the old tree we’d just stop at lead attacks ;p.

With regards to gear, thieves don’t need assassins gear in pve, full zerker and agility signet gets them to 62% base. 5% from hp >90% trait then fury = 20% gets them to 87%. They use to take 7% from side strike but flawless power is too good now. Still that’s 87% crit rate and with food you’re into the 90’s (was almost 100 with side strike). Even with the changes, because fury is permanent (watch some of the twitch streams – guy stacked minutes of fury!) it makes assasin’s gear even more redundant for thieves. For those who did want 100% or near enough, slot precise infusions instead of power.

High weakness up-time isn’t all that good in PvE. A year ago when I was actually interested in this gear/DPS optimising for speed runs, I read a lot of threads, and did a lot of maths. There comes a point, with berserker’s, when assassin’s becomes more optimal because precision becomes worth more than power. This is due to power from a particular food, and bloodlust stacks increasing power, and the berserker’s gear also increasing precision and ferocity.

That’s interesting, I’d like to see the math behind that. Speaking for thieves, pre patch, thieves could get around 97% crit rate in full zerkers with food + fury + agility signet + traits (looking at you side strike). With ranger’s spotter or warrior’s banners, thieves could sit at 100% crit most of the fight. As such, assassin’s bonus precision did not really help. The only exception where assassin’s may have been of use was with bosses which reduce crit rate significantly. I’m not sure on the math of how much these bosses reduce crit rate and if would then be preferential to have taken assassin’s but these fights were rare.

Post patch, thieves have perma fury apparently, this means most thieves with full zrker and agility signet will be sitting at well over 80% crit rate most of the fight. More with food and banners/ spotter. I can’t see how (but can’t say for sure until I’ve seen the math) on how increasing the crit rate further would outscale power (which scales better with dps).

Like I said, thieves were different than most of the other classes because of bonus crit from traits and signet and hence could get higher than most zerker’s crit rate. I guess we’ll see over the next few weeks as the numbers are crunched.

When I was doing it, the elementalist(s) maintained the permanent fury and might for the group. It’s true regarding Keen Observer and Side Strike though. Plus, there’s also the fact you can mod ascended gear with precise infusions which, combined with the two traits should raise it to 100%. I mained ele at the time, and got into PvP around the time ascended gear came out, which was when I changed mains from ele to thief. For ele, finding the mix that got you as close to the 100% mark so as to keep "wasted stat points" to a minimum (to be used on power) was more complicated, and it truly was a mix - may even still be. Still, I did say "the gear mix will likely be the same," whether I have its current state right or wrong, the main point was that it will likely stay the same, because those keeping up with it will know what is current.

Doggie.3184:

I’ve always preferred D/D. You just gotta know how to handle two D’s.

Well lookie here, we have a natural!