Guild Wars 2

First I want to make sure everyone understands I play almost exclusively as a thief, so this change affects me too.

So, as many have probably discovered, a player will now be revealed for 2 seconds exiting stealth if they do not attack during it. It may or may not be a bug since it was not announced in the update post. It also has other bugs associated with it, like shadow refuge no longer stealthing as long as it used to due to its pulsing nature. Anyways, the concept of revealing even if the player does nothing is a good and needed change.

The thing I want you all to understand here is that this idea does not hinder aggressive play, and it hurts strategies that many people complain about. Using dagger/pistol for the purpose of regenerating in stealth will no longer work as it used to, and sword/dagger thieves will also be unable to immobilize and CnD repeatedly. The list can go on, such as timing CnD to stealth again without even giving the opponent a second to react, and even using it on an object or a mob in the world multiple times. The change isn’t even only limited to thieves. Mesmers will now have to wait before using veil twice.

The theme here is the change will only affect strategies that use stealth excessively to regenerate large amount of health, prolong an encounter, troll, or simply be a pain to fight.

Yes there are bugs surrounding the change and yes the change may be a bug itself. I am not advocating that things stay as they are right now. But the idea of revealing for 2 seconds even if the player does not attack is a change that should be here to stay.

TL:DR No more turtling in stealth, thoughts?

Nema Tode.5637:

thoughts?

Disagree

As far as gaining revealed when you exit stealth is concerned I agree with the changes. However, as far as gaining revealed while in stealth is concerned, these changes make no sense, either for gameplay or for lore. As it stands thieves get revealed having done nothing to trigger the reveal, and can simultaneously have revealed and stealth on them.

This is a class-breaking change. Shadow Arts is almost useless. Imagine if they did something like this with any other classes mechanics. Guardians not being able to hit Renewed Focus and Shelter in quick succession, Mesmers not being able to put up 2nd reflect after their first, or their own invulns from traited signets. Imaging if a Ranger couldn’t use their sword evades, or stack traps, or a Warriors burst skills were on a shared cooldown.

No, I do not agree with this change

So like the only way to viably play thief is near perma stealth…. love that build balance. 1 Way to l2p. Count me out. Steal is a class mechanic is you want something to compare to renewed focus. You can chain evade frames with s/d and blind spam with d/p still. Stealth is not a Thief thing.. Does it have more then other classes? yes Is it there Class Mechanic.. no. it is 1 way to play thief that focuses on stealth just as there are ways to play that rely on evade, or daze.

If this is an actual change and not actually a bug then i agree with it, although 2s may be a bit much. I would rather just have a way to keep tabs on thiefs, general vicinity, there is no reason to break it into 2s revealed in stealth builds. I also think that SR shouldn’t break it as it’s specific purpose, IE long CD, long duration stealth is the entire purpose of it. therefore the pulses shouldnt affect it or change the pulse. It really doesnt have to pulse stealth anymore as you cant leave it early without getting revealed anymore anyway

I feel like my point didn’t get across here

Yes there are bugs surrounding the change and yes the change may be a bug itself. I am not advocating that things stay as they are right now. But the idea of revealing for 2 seconds even if the player does not attack is a change that should be here to stay.

i didnt play yet since the update so i still have to see how it works out in game but just listening at it i gotta say even though i generally think the change is good, 2s is too much – 1s or 0,75s is more appropriate imo
nobody likes x/D or D/P thieves just constantly stealthing to regen back up but aggressive play isnt changed with this – and it makes evading/avoiding the others backstab for long enough pretty rewarding
especially as a thief who doesnt use SA and mostly non-stealth-focused S/x builds i like the general idea of this

The largest impact for this change is in dungeons. Thieves found most usefulness in their utility, and more specifically in their stealth usage. Being able to stealth your entire party is a staple to many speed runs, something that changes with this bug, as shadow refuge does not work in the same fashion. I unfortunately found this during a dungeon, when I tried to stealth under shadow refuge but found that I was revealed 2s after my refuge ended. There are many places where stealth is a staple for speed running, and this change greatly impacts the usefulness of thieves in a dungeon- in a largely negative fashion.

I think such a change would just make the game more shallow. In WvW for example, stealth chaining enables thieves to have a unique play style of scouting/tower backcapping, picking off stragglers etc, which compensates for their lack of zerg viability.

Maybe such a change would have worked before other classes got skills that cause reveal (sickem, etc) and before the ini-on-stealth trait got changed, but now I dont think so. In WvW it would just encourage more zerging, clumping into gank squads, and reduce role-based game play even more.

If this is intended or to be intended with the release of HoT:
- Shadow Refuge should be altered to work as it did previously, so the full duration of stealth can be used.
- Cloak and dagger should be restored to it’s full damage in PvP; currently in PvP it uses a lower damage coefficient.

If you do not engage, you should not have revealed debuff.
Hope this is a bug and nothing more

It’s already been stated as a bug but it’s a stealth haters wet dream so expect another 20 posts just like this one.

I don’t think it will be a bug when HoT releases. They just need to fix SR and it will be ok then. This is such a big change for being just a bug

Kolly.9872:

I don’t think it will be a bug when HoT releases. They just need to fix SR and it will be ok then. This is such a big change for being just a bug

My guess is it’s coupled with whatever spec we are getting. Kinda like how necro death shroud changes when they are a reaper etc.

Kadin.2356:

Kolly.9872:

I don’t think it will be a bug when HoT releases. They just need to fix SR and it will be ok then. This is such a big change for being just a bug

My guess is it’s coupled with whatever spec we are getting. Kinda like how necro death shroud changes when they are a reaper etc.

Might agree if they had bugged thieves specifically instead of all stealth, but…

Thief is overpowered and we all know that. Mobility, stealth , burst and so on.
I dunno if this is a bug or intentional but now the game is a little more fair and thanks to that, now thieves are human and not immortal gods.

LoL I was trying to solo CM p1 and was rudely surprised. I was so kittened! So I dont care about pvp that much as I use a more non stealth build but for dungeon speed runs this is crazy. Whats the point of my thief if I cant stealth? Its why I made the class. Dont tell me dps because My ele and warrior has better group dps support. Anet better fix this. The stealth haters sure are happy today.

It is a 3 second reveal. I have no idea why everyone is saying that it is only 2 seconds.

Dear OP,

Give thieves some condition removal and stun breaks that don’t pigeonhole thieves into a couple builds before you start suggesting making thieves’ best defense suck.

ty

This change practically broke stealth builds relaying on “Shadow Arts” tree.
Oder builds can still go on ..pity is that we are experiencing only nerfs ..they are small ones but every time in different areas ..so overall thief is going to be laughable class very soon.
Unfortunately for me “Shadow Arts” build was my favorable ..no point to play this toon anymore ..swithing to ele or warrior with hope I’ll find as much fun as I had with thief for last two years.

This is quite obviously a bug. If such a big mechanical change were intentional, it would be in the patch notes, but it’s not.

It’s even more obvious when you look at the stacking behaviour. You very rudely get pulled out and Revealed when a single stack of Stealth ends, even when you get another one. If the Revealed change was intentional, there would be literally no use for stacking Stealth, so that would have changed as well (along with patch notes).

This is the same patch that turned enemies friendly in WvW and blocked Mesmers from playing PvP among other gems. Not surprised.

it’s a stealth nerf to “sick em” since now thieves can get revealed by themselves

This can’t be intended it changes way too much with no major changes to thief in general it makes even less sense.

Must be a bug, it’s too heavy kitten to deal with if it’s not, since it’s out of the blue..

it might be a bug for sure, however what is the reason for messing around with stealth is the real issue. what kind of nerf are they going to implement so they can hear us cry and rage ?

I don’t play stealth-reliant builds anyways so can’t say that I mind.
You’re still able to chain stealth accordingly (blast in smoke field, heartseekers, you all know the drill) so aside of the effect on Shadow Refuge, I think this is actually good.
Less passive playing I’d say.

roamzero.9486:

I think such a change would just make the game more shallow. In WvW for example, stealth chaining enables thieves to have a unique play style of scouting/tower backcapping, picking off stragglers etc, which compensates for their lack of zerg viability.

Maybe such a change would have worked before other classes got skills that cause reveal (sickem, etc) and before the ini-on-stealth trait got changed, but now I dont think so. In WvW it would just encourage more zerging, clumping into gank squads, and reduce role-based game play even more.

Going to have to say I agree with you here.

Considering the fact that SPvP has an increased reveal duration, Shadow Arts ate a nerf to initiative regeneration when gaining stealth (which ended the D/P spam of #5 – #2 for stealth for indefinite stealth and still being able to have a full burst rotation) and then, most importantly, the fact other classes have a forced reveal mechanic – which leads me to believe that adding a reveal after exiting stealth at all, feels like overkill.

I agree that without some of the previous changes, like if classes didn’t have the ability to reveal stealth players, then having a shorter duration reveal exiting stealth wouldn’t be such a bad thing … but if it’s kept like this with a 3 second reveal while exiting stealth, that’s just too much.

How much does this game need to be catered to casuals who have learn to play issues? -.-;; #Esports!

Thieves’ve been crippled by the half-fix of shadowstepping skills, with them randomly failing on open ground. They have poorest survivability, no immunity skills, no stability skills, not very reliable summons (can’t really call ambush a summon) and virtually no decent condi removal outside stealth in a condi heavy game environment. Stealth was the last patch of safety for them, not just a launching platform for huge damage (which, btw, isn’t bigger than the damage any other class can unleash). So hurray!

While there are other classes affected too, there isn’t one who relies so heavily on stealth for both survival and damage as thieves do.

You wanna remove this?! no problem, I think. Just give thieves invulnerability, good condi removal, 1200 range and stability (more than that troll on Dagger Storm), and the players will adapt. But you can’t really do all that much on a class whose main tools are broken or purely obliterated (like stealth is now) and has no alternatives.

“The wise use of initiative” needed for using weapon skills is basically unique to thieves, all other classes being able to spam 10 to 24 skills. Except the warrior and guardian who have high survivability, all other classes have some means of “balancing” a fight, by spawning ads, more health pools, pets, turrets. All have at the very least half-decent condi damage and removal and again, at least half-decent team support. And all can deal good damage in many ways.

So I think this is an intended feature aimed at silencing the cries of the players frustrated they can’t always 1 hit thieves because of stealth. It also addresses the ability of safely running past kitten mobs in some instances. As such, they just need to fine-tune this before coming clean. However, I do believe that Revealed eating away seconds of stealth is an unintended side effect in the effort to pretty much paralyze a class.

Thieves aren’t tanky. They’re not supposed to be. But now they’ll have to, because they can’t hide. Or they can just retire. Honorably. The game masters no longer want them walking the lands of Tyria ^x^

Totally agree! With shadow refuge broken we even can’t remove conditions properly now.

I’ll take my 3 seconds of protection on reveal now plz

Disagree completely. I play the thief for the stealth alone.

If Anet wants stealth to be changed, fine, do it the way other MMOs do it then. Toggleable permastealth until attack and then have a reveal debuff until you get out of combat again.

Its a bug. https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/601028659407912961

so much drama. gw2 community has no chill.

Pastry.4915:

Its a bug. https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/601028659407912961

so much drama. gw2 community has no chill.

Where’s the Reaper when you need one ?

I play S/P, so I’m cool with this change. Maybe it will make the dire p/d trash easier to fight.

This change or what it is ruins the thef we are no longer able to play with the playstyle we like what would you like if thay removed sword totaly ? eh becuse this change is just that now d is useless.

To the OP:

You can not “turtle” in stealth you will take full damage, other than s/d evades combined with acrobatics extra dodge thieves have no other defensive mechanism no “oh snap” buttons. Thieves can not turtle, you die in less than 2 sec if you do not evade stealth is just a distraction.

In regards of “promoting a more agressive play style” without drastic changes to passive survivability this will NEVER EVER work, especially in group settings, less HP less armor less damage than all other melee centric proffesions will show.
All the odds are against thieves in that regard.
Just look at the current s/d meta build you have to trait fully into defense to make that set work. Full acro full trickery and extra healing by mug, why, because an agressive thief build will kill you.

Don’t say positive things about a bug if you don’t know what’s going on. You’re playing into the hands of evil. You’re basically provoking them to do an actual nerf. :o

It’s possible it was intentional to gauge the community reaction, which is all “loltrololo huehue thieves are unhappy huehue” for the most part from people who don’t actually care about the class nor understand it, while everyone who actually plays the class is supposed to not accept it so it doesn’t happen. If you destroy and corrupt the 2nd part you’re condemning a lot of innocent squishiez and should feel bad.

And also:

Certain people, like myself, want to play stealth centric builds, for a lot of players this is actually the whole reason to pick thieves in the first place.

Frankly if I wanted a toon who is able to go face to face in a melee and walk tall like she owns the place I would play warrior.

To everyone complaining about having no condition removal and damage control without stealth,

Other solutions to clearing conditions are:

1. Hide in Shadows (Dot removal)
2. Withdrawal and Roll for Initiative (Movement hindering)
3. Infiltrators return (Clears 1)
4. Shadow Step (Clears 3)
5. Pain Response in Acrobatics (Dot removal)
6. Fleet of Foot in Acrobatics (Cripple and Weakness)
7. Signet of Agility (Clears 1 for each ally)
8. Daggerstorm and Smoke Wall (Many condition based builds utilize projectiles)
9. Avoiding the attack that applies conditions altogether using a method listed below

It should also be noted that shadows embrace still clears 2 conditions if the thief has 3 in shadow arts or greater

Other solutions to avoiding damage are:

1. Dodge rolling, Flanking strike, Withdraw, Disabling Shot, and Death Blossom to evade damage. Can be enhanced through using Agility signet, Feline Grace, and initiative gain traits
2. Shadow shot, blinding powder, tactical striking and Several utilities to blind the opponent
3. Hit and Run tactics using the many teleportation skills available to thief to either add or subtract distance, such as shadow shot and strike, infiltrators strike, arrow, and signet, along with stealing.

Many of you are talking as if thief can only go face without being able to chain stealth, when thief has so many ways to avoid taking a hit without relying heavily on stealth.

Thieves are supposed to be stealthy AND agile. Do not rely too much on either one

I agree with Nema Tode here.

3 sec of stealth can still clear 3 conditions with only 2 trait points needed. And depending on the build, thieves have a lot of that. I personally play Mesmer. And on my CI build I have not a single condition clear and I still am fine (except for P/D condi thieves… but well, we all know the story).

As for other defenses. Yes stealth doesn’t make you invulnerable. But I, as Mesmer, understand very well the importance of unpredictable positioning and stealth (less access to it than thieves). So do not tell me, how weak stealth is, even if you can’t chain it. I agree though that this comparison falls a bit short, because as a Mesmer I can rely on damage pressure from range.

However. I believe that, except for Shadow Refuge being screwed over with this bug, Thieves can adept. Chain stealthing is very annoying to deal with against Thieves and Mesmers alike. And preventing such a thing and requiring you to think a bit more about what you’re doing is a welcome change imho.

Shadow Refuge bug the other stuff gr8 material. I got no issue playing my thief whit the forced reveal even if i dont attack and do you know why?
Cause i will attack, i want my backstabb and i want my sneak attack and such. It’s a very important change and a very lovely one. The Shadow Refuge is however propably a bug.
However i wouldent mind you guys to add a 4-6 sec reveal after the Shadow Refuge ends, after all u got alot of options to reposition ur self as a thief and nice burst damage.

Nema Tode.5637:

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TyPin.9860:

snip

Good idea, actually! Very valid arguments and stuff, it’s just like:

“What mesmer clones broken? Just use stealth – mesmers are designed to stealth and use clones- don’t rely on clones!”
or:
“Longbow broken for ranger? Well, just go melee, rangers are designed to be a ranged and a melee class”
“What? Adrenaline broken? What are you complaining about? Warriors are designed to be tanky and do damage..”
“What Aegis doesn’t work? Use a shield, Guardians are designed to be tanky and protect others, don’t rely on only one of the options!”
“Deathshroud broken? Well you already have got 2 weaponsets – don’t complain, Necros are designed for.. umm..doing damage?”

I hope you realize how poor your argumentation is.

And yeah this change completely breaks my build as all of it relies on stealth – might, condi removal, burst – and I don’t think that this is because of my bad descisions but because the traits are designed like this. And if anet wanted to implement a change like this I sure hope they offer a solution/compensation to all what is now bound to stealth.

Ps: Anet please don’t listen to these guys, most of them are rangers in disguise who want thieves to be nerfed, the rest of them is theorycrafters who haven’t played since beta.

Nema Tode.5637:

First I want to make sure everyone understands I play almost exclusively as a thief, so this change affects me too.

So, as many have probably discovered, a player will now be revealed for 2 seconds exiting stealth if they do not attack during it. It may or may not be a bug since it was not announced in the update post. It also has other bugs associated with it, like shadow refuge no longer stealthing as long as it used to due to its pulsing nature. Anyways, the concept of revealing even if the player does nothing is a good and needed change.

The thing I want you all to understand here is that this idea does not hinder aggressive play, and it hurts strategies that many people complain about. Using dagger/pistol for the purpose of regenerating in stealth will no longer work as it used to, and sword/dagger thieves will also be unable to immobilize and CnD repeatedly. The list can go on, such as timing CnD to stealth again without even giving the opponent a second to react, and even using it on an object or a mob in the world multiple times. The change isn’t even only limited to thieves. Mesmers will now have to wait before using veil twice.

The theme here is the change will only affect strategies that use stealth excessively to regenerate large amount of health, prolong an encounter, troll, or simply be a pain to fight.

Yes there are bugs surrounding the change and yes the change may be a bug itself. I am not advocating that things stay as they are right now. But the idea of revealing for 2 seconds even if the player does not attack is a change that should be here to stay.

TL:DR No more turtling in stealth, thoughts?

no disagree. initiative is our mechanic that prevents us from abusing stealth cnd costs 5. you cant repeatedly cnd + sword 1 (which isnt immo its a daze and only 1 second).

plus you cant “turtle” in stealth, you can get hit and get AOEd in stealth. plus channeled spells just keep on channeling in stealth as someone casted them before the thief stealthed.

the nerfs to thieves are going to ruin the class. we already have a hard enough time. the effort that goes in to kills and winning games is tremendous and this is just enough godkitten hurtle

TyPin.9860:

I agree with Nema Tode here.

3 sec of stealth can still clear 3 conditions with only 2 trait points needed. And depending on the build, thieves have a lot of that. I personally play Mesmer. And on my CI build I have not a single condition clear and I still am fine (except for P/D condi thieves… but well, we all know the story).

As for other defenses. Yes stealth doesn’t make you invulnerable. But I, as Mesmer, understand very well the importance of unpredictable positioning and stealth (less access to it than thieves). So do not tell me, how weak stealth is, even if you can’t chain it. I agree though that this comparison falls a bit short, because as a Mesmer I can rely on damage pressure from range.

However. I believe that, except for Shadow Refuge being screwed over with this bug, Thieves can adept. Chain stealthing is very annoying to deal with against Thieves and Mesmers alike. And preventing such a thing and requiring you to think a bit more about what you’re doing is a welcome change imho.

3 secs of stealth clears 3 condi? Maybe 2 years ago…

I hope this revealed thing is permanent. If its just a bug, I hope they turn it into a balancing change. (Except for the shadow refuge, that should probably get fixed asap!)

And its 4sec of stealth to clear 3 condis, not 3sec.

Jana.6831:

Nema Tode.5637:

snip

TyPin.9860:

snip

Good idea, actually! Very valid arguments and stuff, it’s just like:

“What mesmer clones broken? Just use stealth – mesmers are designed to stealth and use clones- don’t rely on clones!”
or:
“Longbow broken for ranger? Well, just go melee, rangers are designed to be a ranged and a melee class”
“What? Adrenaline broken? What are you complaining about? Warriors are designed to be tanky and do damage..”
“What Aegis doesn’t work? Use a shield, Guardians are designed to be tanky and protect others, don’t rely on only one of the options!”
“Deathshroud broken? Well you already have got 2 weaponsets – don’t complain, Necros are designed for.. umm..doing damage?”

I hope you realize how poor your argumentation is.

And yeah this change completely breaks my build as all of it relies on stealth – might, condi removal, burst – and I don’t think that this is because of my bad descisions but because the traits are designed like this. And if anet wanted to implement a change like this I sure hope they offer a solution/compensation to all what is now bound to stealth.

Ps: Anet please don’t listen to these guys, most of them are rangers in disguise who want thieves to be nerfed, the rest of them is theorycrafters who haven’t played since beta.

Just be thankful your character can still attack, only because it was designed to attack. Lol…

Revealed just needs to be removed. There is no actual reason for it other than to balance the class.

Silhouette.5631:

Revealed just needs to be removed. There is no actual reason for it other than to balance the class.

Pretty sure balance is an actual reason. xD

Nema Tode.5637:

stuff

Fair point but I have a few objections…

• As many conditions are being thrown around in this game, having selective condition removal isn’t reliable unless it removes entire spectrums of conditions like movement-impairing or DoT conditions. For example, while you might have removed burning, bleeding and poison you still have torment and confusion. Oh look, more bleeds and burning. Players might use it if there is nothing else, but it is unreliable compared to indiscriminate condition removal. Cooldowns (specially long ones) on selective condition removal doesn’t help either. Which leaves things like Sword #2b, Shadow Return and Shadow’s Embrace as the only reliable sources of condition removal. And as such, it reduces the amount of choices the player has (or the could just dwi).

• Same thing for stun breaks. Shadowstep is almost mandatory as a utility simply because it is 2 stunbreaks and condition removal packed into a solid effect. In order of usefulness, what thieves have left is Roll for Initiative which has a long CD and then Haste and Infiltrator’s Signet that produces very little effect to justify the cooldowns. And you rarely see people use them because Shadowstep is much better in comparison.

• This game most reliable survivability mechanics are all either passive or generate solid mitigation for a few seconds. Evasion does not. A thief might be able to evade all day, but then they are burning utilities that could be used to take advantage of opportunities. Secondly, most evasions are 1/4-1/2 a second and unless timed perfectly most attacks will punch through. It isn’t as reliable as stealth which can stay for seconds at a time and provide effects that keep the thief alive more.

• Blind is easily removed as it is applied. Simply cause a “Miss” to appear and blind is gone. Most blinds require a large chunk of initiative and initiative is thief’s lifeline. Blind spam simply is not as reliable as stealth.

• It isn’t that thieves rely on steath, its that their is no better choice. Evades are spotty defense and blinds are too costly to spam.

So 3 seconds of stealth only cleanse 2 conditions (when traited)… how horrible, I might start crying here… you have it sooooooo bad. This ‘revealed on the end of stealth’, so you can’t chain stealth for ages, must really limit this ability. How often can a thief stealth? How many conditions does that remove?

I am not saying that this bug, if it was a balance change, alone would be a good step. Of course thieves need some compensation. What I am saying is, that Thief is horribly broken atm. (only focusing on areas, where I have certain experience with). I will refer further to the bug, as if it was a balance change:

Dungeons:

• Content skipping with long invisibility and bypassing of the original dungeon design
  —> this bug fixes that
• Other buffs might be needed, to compensate and give the thief a more solid ground in Dungeons.

sPvP:

• Either hardcounters certain professions, like the common IP Power Shatter Mesmer or is kinda lackluster
  —> this bug doesn’t address those issues nearly enough and is, when solely looked upon, too strong of a nerf.
• There were some suggestions in this thread alone, how to possibly buff Thieves to compensate for the bug

WvW roaming:

• Thieves are the sole kings of WvW roaming. Especially the abuse of chain stealthing and CnD restealthing is an abomination to everything that requires a target. Also failing the ‘back stab’ attack and just prolonging stealth, when it ultimately fails, doesn’t really require skilled play.
  —> this bug addresses this issue to a certain degree. Toning down Thieves in WvW roaming would be a welcome addition.
• However, it is weird that ANet would address this, for the balance is, as proclaimed, 5v5 PvP not 1v1 WvW

WvW large scale combat:

• Thieves desperately need a buff there. The occasional back line harassment goes only so far
  —> Thieves need a good compensation to the potential performance loss in WvW roaming, making them less of a specialist and giving them more roles.

At this time this issue is/was a bug (no idea if still around). One has to look upon this from the PoV of the new skill system of (pre) HoT. Nobody can exactly predict, how the balance will develop there. Certain issues on the other hand are clear (like the dungeon part). The only thing this ‘reveal after stealth’ prevents is chain stealthing. And this is a change I welcome. It also hinders chain stealthing for Mesmer btw. And as long as skills like shadow refuge still work properly (what it didn’t with this bug) Thieves will be able to adept.

TyPin.9860:

stuff

Does it matter how much a thief can stealth and how many conditions they can cleanse in it? As long as they are stealthed, they can’t do anything unless they feel like forfeiting stealth’s benefits and there is only 1 stealth attack that makes it worth it. That attack almost requires zerk to be worth it.

Secondly, half the classes in this game have the capability to cleanse conditions like its nothing like Mesmer’s Mantra of Recovery/Power Return with Mender’s Purity (4-6 conditions cleansed in 10s. I forget) or Guard with light fields and finishers abound or engi with their elixer gun and blasts or necro that can often transfer conditions to other players or ele where most of their condition removal cures multiple conditions at a time. Look on this page and see how many times thief shows up and how many is cleared vs. how many other professions show up and how many they clear. Guard is the exact opposite of thief.

Finally, the real problem of stealth camping people rarely acknowledge is thief’s lack of diversity which stems from a few things:

1.) Most of their survivability is used through the weaponset. Initiative provides immediate use of defenses with little cooldown. Thief is currently the only profession without passive play. Their stealth, blind and evasion spam is balanced by their lack of decent condition removal/defensive boons/healing. And even then, they still need something like HiS and SE to keep up with other professions.

2.) There is a reason nobody will slot half of thief’s traits and utilities and it usually is because they either provide little support or are detrimental. Nothing says “kill me here” when you go down like a Smoke Screen automatically placed on top of you. And nothing kills you like automatically and randomly randomly teleporting into a zerg after getting stunned. Good thing that’s getting fixed though.

3.) Thieves do not have the passive defense to augment defensive stats like healing power and toughness. They also are poor a basic forms of team support like healing and condition removal unless its through traited stealth.

Regardless of how powerful you think stealth might be, it is the best thief has. Break stealth and you break the class. If you want thieves to stop using stealth so much, however, up evasion times or provide other means of cleansing conditions or defense that doesn’t require stealth. Anything to make stealth less of a requirement and more of a tool.