Guild Wars 2

In response to an earlier thread, I decided to put together a list of all our nerfs since launch, but in a new thread rather than a reply as I feel it could be of use to more than that one thread. This list does not include anything that isn’t strictly related to thieves (The revealed changes for instance) So here you go:

September 2012:

• Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
• Descent of Shadows: This trait’s effect can now only trigger once every 8 seconds.

October 2012:

• Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%.
• Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.
• Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
• Ink Shot: This skill no longer allows players to shadowstep out of water.
• Whirling Axe: This skill has had evasion removed from the ability and has a missile-reflection effect applied to the whirl effect.

November 2012:

• Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
• Shadowstep: This skill is temporarily disabled underwater to keep players from circumventing walls when using it.
• Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
• Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
• Bountiful Theft: This trait no longer applies aegis at odd times.

December 2012:

• Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
• Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
• Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.(Can be either nerf or buff)
• Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.

January 2013:

• Leeching Venoms: This trait no longer affects gadgets.
• Smoke Screen: This skill’s blinding pulse no longer follows the thief.
• ALL VENOMS + ASSASSIN’S SIGNET: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.

February 2013:

• None except for some bug fixes

March 2013:

• Caltrops: Reduced duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. Now indicates its radius.
• Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.

April 2013:

• Mug trait: Can no longer critically hit. Now heals the thief from a range of 1980 health to 2700 health.
• Smoke Screen skill: No longer destroys unblockable missiles.
• Trick Shot skill: First arrow is no longer heat-seeking.

May 2013:

• Black Powder skill: No longer fires its projectile backward while moving. The field can still be generated.

June 2013:

• Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.
• Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
• Nine Tailed Strike: Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 5.
• Shadow Assault: Increased the initiative cost from 5 to 7.
• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
• Lotus Poison: Increased weakness duration to 4 seconds, but it can only apply once every 20 seconds per target.

July 2013:

• Shadow Trap: This skill now has a maximum duration of 120 seconds.

August 2013:

• None other than a few minor bug fixes

September 2013:

• None

October 2013:

• Destroy Shadow Trap: This skill now has a 1.5-second cast time. It plays an effect on the thief and on the trap location when it is being cast. Added 5 seconds of regeneration.
• Hide in Shadows: This skill now only increases Blinding Powder stealth by 1 second so it is consistent with the trait’s functionality.
• Larcenous Strike: This skill now steals only 1 boon.
• Body Shot: This skill now applies 1 second of immobilize. Reduced the number of vulnerability stacks from 10 to 5. Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 4.
• Basilisk Venom: Petrify is now removed on stun break.

November 2013:

• None

December 2013 (According to the preview):

• Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
• Infiltrator’s return will no longer be usable while stunned.
• Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.
• Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.
• Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 5s from 8s.
• Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
• Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier. (since it might hinder some builds)
• Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 10s.

I hope that this aided you in some way. c:

I think its important to differentiate fixes from nerfs, the same way fixes that make a skill function as intended are not buffs (such as the recent Withdraw/Roll for initiative fixes)

The following from your list above were fixes to improperly functioning skills, not nerfs.

• Bountiful Theft: This trait has been fixed so that it doesn’t apply 15 seconds of vigor twice.
• Shadow Return skill: No longer has infinite range.
• Withdraw: The travel distance underwater has been cut in half to match the land distance.
• Blinding Powder: Stealth duration has been decreased from 5 seconds to 4 seconds when traited with Meld with Shadows. The skill remains with a base of 3 seconds. This skill is now a blast finisher.

The following were changes in functionality, and can’t clearly be considered a buff or a nerf

• Body Shot: This skill now applies 1 second of immobilize. Reduced the number of vulnerability stacks from 10 to 5. Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 4.
• Venomous Aura: Activating a venom skill with this trait equipped will now briefly display an indicator ring around the thief. (This wasn’t really a buff, nerf or fix, just a visual clue for your opponent so they can recognize whats happening)

The following were actually buffs.

• Death Blossom: This skill now costs 4 initiative. (Down from 5, IIRC)
• ALL VENOMS + ASSASSIN’S SIGNET: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable. (IIRC, and I admit I may be wrong here, I believe venoms and assassin’s sig used to be consumed on any swing of your weapon, even if you were swinging at empty air.)

evilapprentice.6379:

I think its important to differentiate fixes from nerfs, the same way fixes that make a skill function as intended are not buffs (such as the recent Withdraw/Roll for initiative fixes)

The following from your list above were fixes to improperly functioning skills, not nerfs.

• Bountiful Theft: This trait has been fixed so that it doesn’t apply 15 seconds of vigor twice.
• Shadow Return skill: No longer has infinite range.
• Withdraw: The travel distance underwater has been cut in half to match the land distance.
• Blinding Powder: Stealth duration has been decreased from 5 seconds to 4 seconds when traited with Meld with Shadows. The skill remains with a base of 3 seconds. This skill is now a blast finisher.

The following were changes in functionality, and can’t clearly be considered a buff or a nerf

• Body Shot: This skill now applies 1 second of immobilize. Reduced the number of vulnerability stacks from 10 to 5. Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 4.
• Venomous Aura: Activating a venom skill with this trait equipped will now briefly display an indicator ring around the thief. (This wasn’t really a buff, nerf or fix, just a visual clue for your opponent so they can recognize whats happening)

The following were actually buffs.

• Death Blossom: This skill now costs 4 initiative. (Down from 5, IIRC)
• ALL VENOMS + ASSASSIN’S SIGNET: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable. (IIRC, and I admit I may be wrong here, I believe venoms and assassin’s sig used to be consumed on any swing of your weapon, even if you were swinging at empty air.)

Fixed the list. I kept body shot on there though because of the vulnerability reduction and initiative increase though.

Arena Net <3 thieves

At least you were good enough to get nerfed.. some of us were bad to start with and have hardly changed from there :P

Massiiiiiiiiveeee buffs !!! lol

I have something interesting to say to my fellow thieves….
I made a research on every class profession fórum and asked wich class they feel easiest to kill….

Not a surprise in almost ALL, the Thief was the easiest or the second easiest to kill…

From the feedback i could divide on the top been most screwed and in the end overpowered

Thief
Elementalists
Ranger/Guardians
Mesmers
Engineers
Warriors
Necros
<Overpowered>

Basically the first 4 were always been pointed as easy target and the 4 last ones always as difficult targets….

This is one of the most important threads in this forum section. Lets make sure it always stays on the front page so people understand our feelings when they continue the nerbat spree without fixing broken traits or clunky mechanics.

To a-net: I have invested some 2.5k hours into a proffession which doesnt really feel the same as it did pre-release when i rolled it. Thank you for ruining my game experience.

Why so hate pistol whip?

I have played thief since headstart (it’s my main character, all best gear on her, almost 3 legendary weapons: the dreamer, incinerator and almost quip) and now i’m thinking about stop playing in this gamy. I love all thiefs/assassins/rouges in mmo but in gw2 this character is going to “die”. I don’t know why ANet <3 warriors and theirs gswords but IMO thief is THE MOST hated, nerfed and becomes the mots boring and hard survivable class.

p.s. Sorry 4 my poor english.

rVn.2076:

I have played thief since headstart (it’s my main character, all best gear on her, almost 3 legendary weapons: the dreamer, incinerator and almost quip) and now i’m thinking about stop playing in this gamy. I love all thiefs/assassins/rouges in mmo but in gw2 this character is going to “die”. I don’t know why ANet <3 warriors and theirs gswords but IMO thief is THE MOST hated, nerfed and becomes the mots boring and hard survivable class.

p.s. Sorry 4 my poor english.

Im in the same mode now, except the Legendarys ^^
im pvpler since headstart playing with friends tpvp and spvp and ist kind of frusttrating beeing nerfed by every patch , getting a Little buff which will pluck into pieces
But i will try a last new control build after dec 10th, if ppl cry me and anet nerfed this , I will delete this game.

I don’t think this is all of them. What about Unload, Repeater. They got nerfed. in (pre-sale?) Are you not counting pre-sale nerfs?

Also you should add some of the broad nerfs, (Haste, Vigor [next patch] They nerfed Unload, Repeater and Pistol whip because it had to much synergy with haste.

Interesting thread was thinking about doing this myself

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Why so hate pistol whip?

Becouse they thought its too strong. S/p was one of the most used build before those huge nerfs. You could stun from stealth and kill anyone with it before stun ended.
Anyway i think thief was much more fun before then now. Yes glass canon thief could one shot anyone, but anyone could one shot glass thief too. It has kind of balance.
Now everyone can one shot thief, but thief can one shot noone.

Holly!!!!! when you put it like this it even more sad.

Don’t worry we wil get MASSSSSSSSSSSSSSIVE buff on Dec. 10

meanwhile bunkerkitten, brainless aoe+ccspam increased.

For sure the best balance team evvah….

fodem.2713:

Massiiiiiiiiveeee buffs !!! lol

I have something interesting to say to my fellow thieves….
I made a research on every class profession fórum and asked wich class they feel easiest to kill….

Not a surprise in almost ALL, the Thief was the easiest or the second easiest to kill…

From the feedback i could divide on the top been most screwed and in the end overpowered

<screwed>
Thief
Elementalists
Ranger/Guardians
Mesmers
Engineers
Warriors
Necros
<Overpowered>

Basically the first 4 were always been pointed as easy target and the 4 last ones always as difficult targets….

Thats because too many scrubs picked thief as their second character.

You know what thief class!!, all the other classes been asking for; in the past 15 months?, is to just have counter measures against your mechanics"… that’s all!!.

Was that too much to ask?

Yet

Arena.net thinks otherwise.

In other word, Don’t Blame us for nerfing your class, Blame Arena.net as the sole responsible party for intentionally allowing your class to break the game and causing hatred, animosity, grudge, retaliation, malice, spitefulness, disgust, greed, lust for total power, lust for total control, greed. and injustice, among ourselves.

As the saying goes, "why blame a blind man for not seeing, when in fact you are the one who took his eyes"

once more…….

We are not to be blamed or is responsible for your Broken class

(if we were to be responsible for your class and its creation; with some minor tweaking, we would make you similar to your kin, The Assassin . .http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin)

there…

no more unjust wars

now we just need list of buffs…. althrough looking at some of them from dec 10th, they are not even worth mentioning as they are useless lol (trolololol hard to catch)

fodem.2713:

Massiiiiiiiiveeee buffs !!! lol

Ha ha ha. I think thieves’ lover play this joke a lot from now on.
But i don’t know what ANet is thinking about buffing initiative. (I can’t say much because i mostly play venom share and it’s only in PvP).
I also don’t know much why other players feel sad about reduce alternative initiative resource.

Burnfall.9573:

You know what thief class!!, all the other classes been asking for; in the past 15 months?, is to just have counter measures against your mechanics"… that’s all!!.

Yet

Arena.net thinks otherwise.

In other word, Don’t Blame us for nerfing your class, Blame Arena.net as the sole responsible party for intentionally allowing your class to break the game and causing hatred, animosity, grudge, retaliation, malice, spitefulness, disgust, greed, lust for total power, lust for total control, greed. and injustice, among ourselves.

As the saying goes, "why blame a blind man for not seeing, when in fact you are the one who took his eyes"

once more…….

We are not to be blamed or is responsible for your Broken class

(if we were to be responsible for your class and its creation; with some minor tweaking, we would make you similar to your kin, The Assassin . .http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin)

there…

no more unjust wars

I would just like to point out that I don’t see how this list implies that we hold you responsible for our nerfs. I simply compiled this list for others to read, and I too think that the majority of these were rightfully installed.

What I personally think about the subject however is that it starts with feedback from the other 7 classes, and then Anet decides what to do about that feedback. The problem is most feedback they receive is unfortunately negative, because if one were to fight a different class, they would probably note what that class’s strongpoints against them are, and not so much what their weakpoints are (what im saying is you dont see warriors or whatever saying “thieves r too squishy, plz buff”)

Therefore, I think there is some truth to the saying that the source of our nerfs is the community, but not entirely because what Anet decides to do with that information is up to them.

Most players want to be invincible… When they rcv a big shot they cry…. But Thats what an assassin class is all about… Glass cannons are suposed to hit hard… But as stated for someone, now thieves die fast but dont hit hard enough…

For fairness, would someone be willing to post a topic with the complete list of buffs since release?

Viking Jorun.5413:

For fairness, would someone be willing to post a topic with the complete list of buffs since release?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Complete-list-of-buffs-since-release/first#post3254448

evilapprentice.6379:

Viking Jorun.5413:

For fairness, would someone be willing to post a topic with the complete list of buffs since release?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Complete-list-of-buffs-since-release/first#post3254448

Thanks!

evilapprentice.6379:

Nema Tode.5637:

Burnfall.9573:

You know what thief class!!, all the other classes been asking for; in the past 15 months?, is to just have counter measures against your mechanics"… that’s all!!.

Yet

Arena.net thinks otherwise.

In other word, Don’t Blame us for nerfing your class, Blame Arena.net as the sole responsible party for intentionally allowing your class to break the game and causing hatred, animosity, grudge, retaliation, malice, spitefulness, disgust, greed, lust for total power, lust for total control, greed. and injustice, among ourselves.

As the saying goes, "why blame a blind man for not seeing, when in fact you are the one who took his eyes"

once more…….

We are not to be blamed or is responsible for your Broken class

(if we were to be responsible for your class and its creation; with some minor tweaking, we would make you similar to your kin, The Assassin . .http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin)

there…

no more unjust wars

I would just like to point out that I don’t see how this list implies that we hold you responsible for our nerfs. I simply compiled this list for others to read, and I too think that the majority of these were rightfully installed.

What I personally think about the subject however is that it starts with feedback from the other 7 classes, and then Anet decides what to do about that feedback. The problem is most feedback they receive is unfortunately negative, because if one were to fight a different class, they would probably note what that class’s strongpoints against them are, and not so much what their weakpoints are (what im saying is you dont see warriors or whatever saying “thieves r too squishy, plz buff”)

Therefore, I think there is some truth to the saying that the source of our nerfs is the community, but not entirely because what Anet decides to do with that information is up to them.

The first rule of the thief forums is we do not respond to Sanduskel or Burnfall.

They’re trolls with an agenda. They are not here for a discussion, from their perspective their opinions are ironclad fact. No amount of facts or counter-arguments will sway them. They just come here to exaggerate, misinterpret and derail threads.

The first rule of the thief forums is we do not respond to Sanduskel or Burnfall.

As the saying goes, “i come in peace, yet you treat me as an enemy”

In other word evilapprentice, you are banishing us and mistreating us, for our peaceful support and criticism to the thief class.

Sincerely, I don’t understand your opposition at all against sanduskel and i; after all, we are valuable player in the world of guild wars 2… like you.

So my encouragement, ‘cut us some slack’ and appreciate the fact, not everyone will agree with the current state thief class is in, including it’s future.

Including our mindful thoughts and reasonings to our concern of theif class status.

We will continue to make a strong case against thief class, in the name of balance; in general. To be balanced is to have strengths and weakness, and unfortunately, thief class balance is all strengths with having no counter or weaknesses whatsoever.

And if there are any weaknesses; in a blink of an eye, it is completely gone.

Evilapprentice, guild wars 2 is not a single player game, where you can have this one class profession, overpowering, controlling, destroying everyone and everything, to the point of reversing time a.k.a resetting fights.

Well unfortunately, this is the case of what we have here in guild wars 2, of the class; called thief.

So at the end of the day, we all can agree, thief class is severely broken and is in need of serious complete redesign; instead of nerfs, nerfs and nerfing them more. until they are more severely broken.

Big Encouragement to Arena.net, please pull this class from the class roster until they are completely redesigned and fully reworked, from the ground up.

In other word, put thief class to sleep until they are reborn again.

(that’s the only right way i believe, to help this class)..

Finally to Evilapprentice,

(As the saying goes, in order to understand wisdom, to learn wisdom, is to embrace its peacefulness and its calmness’)

In calmness, I leave you in peace.

Dear burnfall, if thieves are so overpowered why don’t they see widespread use in spvp/tpvp?
If they’re as strong as you say, it shouldn’t matter that they’re unable to cap in stealth, since they would kill the opposing player with such ease that the fight over a point would only last a minimal amount of time.

One nerf you left off the list, that I don’t remember when exactly it was changed, was when Lotus Venom was changed to have an internal cooldown as to how often it applies the weakness.

Burnfall.9573:

…
In other word, Don’t Blame us for nerfing your class, Blame Arena.net as the sole responsible party for intentionally allowing your class to break the game and causing hatred, animosity, grudge, retaliation, malice, spitefulness, disgust, greed, lust for total power, lust for total control, greed. and injustice, among ourselves.
…

LOL, you’re a kittening poet Brunfall… are you a poet?
Bad thieves! bad!

Burnfall.9573:

… your class to break the game …

l2p

You also forgot about this nerf, date 25th June 2013:

Last Refuge: Reduced the cooldown of this trait from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.

Lucky Shot.7650:

You also forgot about this nerf, date 25th June 2013:

Last Refuge: Reduced the cooldown of this trait from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Dakota.4591:

One nerf you left off the list, that I don’t remember when exactly it was changed, was when Lotus Venom was changed to have an internal cooldown as to how often it applies the weakness.

Thanks! It was in June and has been added to the list.

Nema Tode.5637:

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Not with Last Refuge. Remember it’s that minor trait that automagically puts you in stealth a split second before your c&d hits. Would be a buff if they increased the cooldown to, say, 30 minutes.

frans.8092:

Nema Tode.5637:

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Not with Last Refuge. Remember it’s that minor trait that automagically puts you in stealth a split second before your c&d hits. Would be a buff if they increased the cooldown to, say, 30 minutes.

Yea, I do. I admit sometimes it kills me too, but if you anticipate and trust it, it can work ya wonders.

frans.8092:

Nema Tode.5637:

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Not with Last Refuge. Remember it’s that minor trait that automagically puts you in stealth a split second before your c&d hits. Would be a buff if they increased the cooldown to, say, 30 minutes.

Does it put you in stealth? Really?

Weird, I thought Last Refuge was “Grants revealed once your health reaches 25%”.

Lucky Shot.7650:

frans.8092:

Nema Tode.5637:

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Not with Last Refuge. Remember it’s that minor trait that automagically puts you in stealth a split second before your c&d hits. Would be a buff if they increased the cooldown to, say, 30 minutes.

Does it put you in stealth? Really?

Weird, I thought Last Refuge was “Grants revealed once your health reaches 25%”.

Haha good one! So true though… it’s useful if you can see it coming, but it would be best of they could remove the debuf on that one only. But they probably can’t just remove the debuff for one trait