Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

something i have been playing with lately and wanted to share, someone might find it useful.

Traits you need:

“Hidden Assassin” -> 25 into Shadow Arts
“Power of Inertia” -> 10 into Acro
“Feline Grace” -> 15 into Acro

Runes, Sigils and Equipment you need:

2x Superior Rune of Strength (25 Power, +20% Might Duration)
2x Superior Rune of Fire (25 Power, 20% Might Duration)
2x Superior Rune of the Hoelbrak (25 Power, +20% Might Duration)

2x Superior Sigil of Battle (3 Stacks Might on Weapon Swap)
2x Superior Sigil of Strength (30% Chance to gain Might on crit) Note: Not needed that much but way easier to maintain 25 with it.

Food:

“Bowls of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew” (100% Chance to gain Might on Dodge, +40% Endurance Refill Rate)

How it works:

- 3 Stacks Might (~35 seconds) on Weapon Swap (I recommend using the same weapon set two times such as S/D + S/D, D/P + D/P or P/D + P/D)
- 2 Stacks Might (~18 seconds) on dodge (1 without the food)
- 30% chance to get Might (~18 seconds) on crit
- 2 Stacks Might (~18 seconds) when entering Stealth (D/P + D/P is probably the best set for this)

The Might stacks last longer because we have 60% might duration and +15% Boon Duration. To be honest the uptime is really really high i have 20 constantly just running around killing mobs. I’m pretty sure i could reach much more if there was no cap at 25.

Edit: No clue why it’s underlining some of my test, sry abt that. Also didnt notice fraps recorded media player along so enjoy some muse :P

nerf incoming, thanks for the tip !

This build’s been around for a good while now, but with D/D instead of S/D. Having both direct and condition damage + Rampager gear maximizes your output by taking advantage of Might to the fullest.

+1

Nice! This might be the ultimate pve build! Thanks for sharing!

kittennit.7648:

Edit: No clue why it’s underlining some of my test, sry abt that. Also didnt notice fraps recorded media player along so enjoy some muse :P

You need a space between “+” and a number.

kittennit.7648:

Hey guys,

~snipfu

I guess when it comes down to it with a build like this, the question has to be how much you are sacrificing (also what you are sacrificing) in order to achieve might stacking on a thief. If your answer comes down to something that you can live with it and your group (or pugs or whatever you run with) can live with, then go for it.

If the sacrifice is too great, as it appears to be from time to time on a build like this on a thief, then it comes down to what you are looking at doing with your particular build.

Its a good idea though, and well-thought-out concept.

SquirtleMilk.5463:

Nice! This might be the ultimate pve build! Thanks for sharing!

This is actually pretty strong in small scale WvW roaming because you can stack up might pretty fast, you will have 15+ in a matter of seconds and 25 is very well possible. Especially if you run D/P.

I havent tried it in sPvP tho, the difference is that the food isnt there and Shadow Arts isnt nearly as good in sPvP as it is in WvW.

Loperdos.7924:

kittennit.7648:

Hey guys,

~snipfu

I guess when it comes down to it with a build like this, the question has to be how much you are sacrificing (also what you are sacrificing) in order to achieve might stacking on a thief. If your answer comes down to something that you can live with it and your group (or pugs or whatever you run with) can live with, then go for it.

If the sacrifice is too great, as it appears to be from time to time on a build like this on a thief, then it comes down to what you are looking at doing with your particular build.

Its a good idea though, and well-thought-out concept.

This is definetly true !

If you already run a stealth heavy build i strongly recommend this because it boosts your damage output drasticly. This is probably the best in a WvW roaming build which has 30 into SA anyway.

People would have to give up their shortbow tho and run double sets :P not sure if people like that, i definetly do ! I fell in love with Double S/D.

Cool build. A few pieces of rampagers might take advantage of the conditions a bit more, especially if you run P/D and D/D (or S/D). All ramp armor w/ zerk trinkets might be a good way to go, especially for all of us that already are running 6/6 ascended berserker trinkets.

The sigils will run you 13-14g and are the most expensive (and arguably most important) part of the build. Still unsure which way I’d lean on weapons. Most of us have zerker weapons w/ sigils we don’t want to replace, so since we are buying new ones anyways maybe split the the 4 between zerk and rampagers?

purgatoryz.6038:

Cool build. A few pieces of rampagers might take advantage of the conditions a bit more, especially if you run P/D and D/D (or S/D). All ramp armor w/ zerk trinkets might be a good way to go, especially for all of us that already are running 6/6 ascended berserker trinkets.

The sigils will run you 13-14g and are the most expensive (and arguably most important) part of the build. Still unsure which way I’d lean on weapons. Most of us have zerker weapons w/ sigils we don’t want to replace, so since we are buying new ones anyways maybe split the the 4 between zerk and rampagers?

Im not so sure about a condition power hybrid. I’m running pure power based since i’m running double S/D.

In this Video i run full ascended zerker trinkets + valk armor with the runes to get the might duration up.

Edit: Have been playing around with it in WvW and good god these Lac strikes with 25 stacks, just lovely xD

I think i’ll definetly stick with this, it’s really fun and rewards good play (hitting the CnDs, constantly swapping)

Someone ask me to look at this, so here I am. lol.

This is a great idea, but in PVP people wont stand around like that giant mob where you can attack and hit them and do whatever you want saddly. But, that doesnt make it a bad idea, it just means you might be stuck at 16 or so instead of 25. Just from running 25 in Shadow arts, and stealthing like you should, you keep up 6 stacks of might 100% of the time. Your build is focusing on upping this number at the cost of executioner or hidden killer. You cant have 15 Acrobatics without dropping 5 from Critical strikes, as the survivability from Shadow Rejuvination is too good in WvW to give up. In sPVP its probably fine to dump it in favor of 30 Critical Strikes, since SA is a bad trait line for sPVP according to people who actually play it (I dont). So what Im going to do is make a mathematical evaluation of the damage increase 10 and 19 stacks of might would have compared to what you gain from 60 power, 110 precision, 17% crit damage (divinity runes+5 in CS), whatever food you would normally use, and Executioner or Hidden killer. Just for simplicitys sake we’ll say we’re using Butternut curry squash food in my build, for 100 precision and 10% crit damage.

So we have 2001 base power with no runes. With your runes you gain 75, mine gain 60, then my might is 35 * 6, yours is going to be 35 *16 and 35 * 25 and we’ll add 250 to each for bloodlust and assume we’re all smart enough to use master maintenance oil.
(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6))=
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 16))=
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 25))=
Heres our power listings, now we need to add crit chance and crit damage. The set Im using is 112 crit damage and 54 crit chance, your set would be 85 crit damage and 44 crit chance, since the only thing we’re changing is food, runes and traits.
(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 16)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 4600.284
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 25)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 5102.394

These are what we get without accounting for Hidden Killer or Executioner, but before we try to add them, lets figure out where the break even point is currently, because I want to know

(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 4711.864

Just over 18 stacks of might is the break even point currently. So if you cant maintain at least 19, this build will never be better. Now lets account for Executioner, since you’re using S/D and thats superior to Hidden Killer. If we think about it, you’d gain 20% damage whenever your target is below 50% HP, so 50% of the time, but things have heals, so we have to account for that, and we’ll say A standard heal on a character does about 1/3rd of their HP really, so we’d need to account for that as being part of the time executioner is not working. so if we gave the guy 10k HP, he’d lose 5k, then gain 3,333 then have to lose that before executioner took effect. So basically hes at 13,333 and at 5k we can count it.
5000/13333=0.375
So like 37.5% of the time we gain 20% damage.
20*.375=7.5
So executioner is really giving us like a 7.5% damage increase.

(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708 * 1.075= 5080.84861

In another thread I showed how when using D/D Executioner does less damage than Hidden Killer, so I wont be going over that since youre using S/D.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/page/2#post2216601
But lets look at the numbers and youre video again.
Your build @ 24 stacks of might
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 24)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 5046.604
25 stacks of might
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 25)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 5102.394
Standard 0/30/30/10/0 using executioner
(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708 * 1.075= 5080.84861

Conclusion
In your video, we can see you constantly flipping between 24 and 25 stacks of might when you get it that high, so your damage fluctuates between better and worse than a standard WvW build, and its stays worse until you can actually get to 25 stacks of might, Im not going to pretend I understand how long it takes for you to reach that, but I can assume that in WvW in a 1v1 fight, you wont reach 25 and maintain it before whoever youre fighting is dead. This is based on the idea that you only get executioner for a third of the fight though, if your opponent doesnt heal, your build loses by miles, if they get 2 heals off, youd probably only need to maintain 22ish stacks of might to win.

For PVP specifically, If it’s a GC type character youre fighting, youd lose by a lot with the might stacking build because theyd die before you got very high. When fighting a boonbunker type character, youd be using Sword 3 a lot and your might stacks would suffer greatly and the might stacking build would also lose there.

For PVE, a full out glass cannon build does 2-3x what the 0/30/30/10/0 build Im using as a comparison for this does, and it will outdamage your might stacking build, but will not have the survivability this has.

If you keep 30 in Critical Strikes and Executioner instead of Shadows Rejuvination, your build will come out ahead around 18 stacks of might, but youd have to keep at least 18 up at all times.

If I made any math errors, feel free to point them out.

wish.1027:

Conclusion
In your video, we can see you constantly flipping between 24 and 25 stacks of might when you get it that high, so your damage fluctuates between better and worse than a standard WvW build, and its stays worse until you can actually get to 25 stacks of might, Im not going to pretend I understand how long it takes for you to reach that, but I can assume that in WvW in a 1v1 fight, you wont reach 25 and maintain it before whoever youre fighting is dead. This is based on the idea that you only get executioner for a third of the fight though, if your opponent doesnt heal, your build loses by miles, if they get 2 heals off, youd probably only need to maintain 22ish stacks of might to win.

For PVP specifically, If it’s a GC type character youre fighting, youd lose by a lot with the might stacking build because theyd die before you got very high. When fighting a boonbunker type character, youd be using Sword 3 a lot and your might stacks would suffer greatly and the might stacking build would also lose there.

For PVE, a full out glass cannon build does 2-3x what the 0/30/30/10/0 build Im using as a comparison for this does, and it will outdamage your might stacking build, but will not have the survivability this has.

If you keep 30 in Critical Strikes and Executioner instead of Shadows Rejuvination, your build will come out ahead around 18 stacks of might, but youd have to keep at least 18 up at all times.

If I made any math errors, feel free to point them out.

Thanks a lot for this man really appreciate it ! I’m not really into all that math stuff so that is definetly quite interesting. Would be interesting to see how far these numbers are apart if you take Executioner into consideration because that is what i am running with.

I’m running 0 / 30 / 25 / 15 / 0 with this setup and it works great. While you’re right that Shadow rejuvenation helps a lot to keep sustain i can live without it. I also use S/D so i got a lot of survivability from Infil Strike. You also have so much dodges because of the food and 15 into acro in addition to the 25 into shadow arts (stealth in general + con removal is just great survivability)

I was ganking for like an hour today in front of a keep and kept killing people that tried to move somewhere else, i can maintain around 15 constantly even out of fight (this works really well in WvW because there is so much stuff you can CnD off before engaging someone) and easily get back up to 20+ by swapping weapons as soon as i engage someone. Once you have someone under 50% and 25 stacks up the fight is pretty much over, the highest lac strike i did so far was 7k on a lvl 80 but he was a full gc thief. I also did a 8k CnD on an uplvled necro, he melted so fast i kinda felt sorry for him lol

The reason why D/P is probably really really good with this (i havent tried it yet) is because you can spam heartseekers thru ur smoke field to grant urself might, you can do this over and over before you engage someone and have 25 stacks up before engaging (im pretty sure you can easily get 25 on D/P out of combat with this setup)

I will probably get another weapon with Bloodlust Sigil and stack that up to 25, then see how much i can pull off with 25 stacks might. Will have around 4,2k attack.

I also believe that this doesnt really fit that much into PvE because a warrior for example grants so much might you really dont have to build it up urself. I would prolly use this tho if im pugging.

kittennit.7648:

wish.1027:

If you keep 30 in Critical Strikes and Executioner instead of Shadows Rejuvination, your build will come out ahead around 18 stacks of might, but youd have to keep at least 18 up at all times.

Thanks a lot for this man really appreciate it ! I’m not really into all that math stuff so that is definetly quite interesting. Would be interesting to see how far these numbers are apart if you take Executioner into consideration because that is what i am running with.

I did that, my original equastions did not count executioner, but they also did not count +5 CS for the might stacking build.

wish.1027:

(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 16)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 4600.284
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 25)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 5102.394

These are what we get without accounting for Hidden Killer or Executioner, but before we try to add them, lets figure out where the break even point is currently, because I want to know

(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 4711.864

If we just change this:
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))=
to this:
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4859.664
We account for +5 CS instead of +5 SA in the build, then we can count down might stacks to find where it wins exactly:
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 17)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4802.124
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 16)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4744.584
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 15)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4687.044
We can see the exact point where it overtakes the other build provided they use the same gear.

0/30/30/10/0 set:
(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708

It’s 16 stacks, which is right where I said originally, around 18 for this build to actually be better from from a damage standpoint.

EDIT: I personally dont like this set because of the lack of weapon swap btw. It doesnt have enough Ini regen for me to use double S/D, and the damage/utility is lacking from a D/D+S/D or D/P+S/D perspective. I think you should try mixing it with Jumpers traits and see how much might you can keep up.

wish.1027:

kittennit.7648:

wish.1027:

If you keep 30 in Critical Strikes and Executioner instead of Shadows Rejuvination, your build will come out ahead around 18 stacks of might, but youd have to keep at least 18 up at all times.

Thanks a lot for this man really appreciate it ! I’m not really into all that math stuff so that is definetly quite interesting. Would be interesting to see how far these numbers are apart if you take Executioner into consideration because that is what i am running with.

I did that, my original equastions did not count executioner, but they also did not count +5 CS for the might stacking build.

wish.1027:

(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 16)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 4600.284
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 25)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 5102.394

These are what we get without accounting for Hidden Killer or Executioner, but before we try to add them, lets figure out where the break even point is currently, because I want to know

(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))= 4711.864

If we just change this:
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .56) + (2.35 * .44))=
to this:
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 18)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4859.664
We account for +5 CS instead of +5 SA in the build, then we can count down might stacks to find where it wins exactly:
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 17)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4802.124
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 16)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4744.584
(2001 + 250 + 75 + (35 * 15)) * ((1 * .54) + (2.4 * .46))= 4687.044
We can see the exact point where it overtakes the other build provided they use the same gear.

0/30/30/10/0 set:
(2001 + 250 + 60 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .46) + (2.62 * .54))= 4726.3708

It’s 16 stacks, which is right where I said originally, around 18 for this build to actually be better from from a damage standpoint.

EDIT: I personally dont like this set because of the lack of weapon swap btw. It doesnt have enough Ini regen for me to use double S/D, and the damage/utility is lacking from a D/D+S/D or D/P+S/D perspective. I think you should try mixing it with Jumpers traits and see how much might you can keep up.

Thanks again mate really interesting !

If i would make a hybrid between jumpers and this one i would prolly go 0 / 15 / 25 / 30 / 0, very high survivability + damage from the 25 might. Jumpers would still be better in tPvP tho, because SA is generaly lacking in sPvP and 25 is neccessary to build up the might. I’d also like to point out that you will be running 20+ might a lot in this build. The Stacks last so long it’s very easy to build it up. I will probably make a few vids soon to showcase it in action.

Note: Shadow Refugee became sooo good with this =O

kittennit.7648:

[…]
2x Superior Sigil of Battle (3 Stacks Might on Weapon Swap)
2x Superior Sigil of Strength (30% Chance to gain Might on crit) Note: Not needed that much but way easier to maintain 25 with it.
[…]

Just for clarifaction:
Will not the internal cooldown of the Sigil of Battle prevent the Sigil of Strength from triggering if you are constantly swapping?

According to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil:
Sigil of Battle 9s
Sigil of Strenght 2s

ArgelErx.4328:

kittennit.7648:

[…]
2x Superior Sigil of Battle (3 Stacks Might on Weapon Swap)
2x Superior Sigil of Strength (30% Chance to gain Might on crit) Note: Not needed that much but way easier to maintain 25 with it.
[…]

Just for clarifaction:
Will not the internal cooldown of the Sigil of Battle prevent the Sigil of Strength from triggering if you are constantly swapping?

According to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil:
Sigil of Battle 9s
Sigil of Strenght 2s

I dont think so? But i really dont know, i always thought only sigils of the same type share a cooldown, for example putting two sigils that trigger on swapping.

I have not really experienced it not working, i’ve gotten 3 stacks everytime i swap so far

Just to clarify, you will use Battle + str in one weapon set and battle + str in the other one too.

SharadSun.3089:

This build’s been around for a good while now, but with D/D instead of S/D. Having both direct and condition damage + Rampager gear maximizes your output by taking advantage of Might to the fullest.

+1

yeah. already ran this build….well slightly diff version of it. +25 bloodlust = insane

kittennit.7648:

ArgelErx.4328:

kittennit.7648:

[…]
2x Superior Sigil of Battle (3 Stacks Might on Weapon Swap)
2x Superior Sigil of Strength (30% Chance to gain Might on crit) Note: Not needed that much but way easier to maintain 25 with it.
[…]

Just for clarifaction:
Will not the internal cooldown of the Sigil of Battle prevent the Sigil of Strength from triggering if you are constantly swapping?

According to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil:
Sigil of Battle 9s
Sigil of Strenght 2s

I dont think so? But i really dont know, i always thought only sigils of the same type share a cooldown, for example putting two sigils that trigger on swapping.

I have not really experienced it not working, i’ve gotten 3 stacks everytime i swap so far

Just to clarify, you will use Battle + str in one weapon set and battle + str in the other one too.

Again http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil:
“All sigils that have a cooldown share the same cooldown timer; while the timer is active, no other sigil with a cooldown can trigger. "

Its about the Sigil of Strenght not triggering because Sigil of Battle startet the cooldown.

ArgelErx.4328:

kittennit.7648:

ArgelErx.4328:

kittennit.7648:

[…]
2x Superior Sigil of Battle (3 Stacks Might on Weapon Swap)
2x Superior Sigil of Strength (30% Chance to gain Might on crit) Note: Not needed that much but way easier to maintain 25 with it.
[…]

Just for clarifaction:
Will not the internal cooldown of the Sigil of Battle prevent the Sigil of Strength from triggering if you are constantly swapping?

According to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil:
Sigil of Battle 9s
Sigil of Strenght 2s

I dont think so? But i really dont know, i always thought only sigils of the same type share a cooldown, for example putting two sigils that trigger on swapping.

I have not really experienced it not working, i’ve gotten 3 stacks everytime i swap so far

Just to clarify, you will use Battle + str in one weapon set and battle + str in the other one too.

Again http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil:
“All sigils that have a cooldown share the same cooldown timer; while the timer is active, no other sigil with a cooldown can trigger. "

Its about the Sigil of Strenght not triggering because Sigil of Battle startet the cooldown.

I’ve tried it and you’re right, it doesnt trigger while weapon swakitten till on cooldown. Thanks for this mate !

Heres a quick video to showcase the damage potential this has

Sorry for the crappy playing coming from jumpers build i have to get used to this… The 6,1k CnD was with the ranger above 50% health, it would have hitted for 7k+ with Executioner triggering. I also didnt get the 2 Might stacks from the failed CnD so the Lac strike does a bit less damage.

I have around 4,1k Attack in that Video (around 20 might stacks) and 95% crit damage.

Your build

Epower: 7121 (24 Might)

Your build, but Rubyorbs + Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Epower: 7446 (15 might – thats 24 might without 60% boonduration and the buff food)

And every boonstrip on the enemy team, every buffing warrior/guard on your team is another reason to use Ruby Orbs + Squash Soup.

Tl; dr: You sacrifice too much to get those mightstacks.

What about the high condition damage you get from the might stacks? That’s why I’m saying a hybrid build might be better for this. Maybe P/D and D/D? That way you can sneak attack and death blossom, but also backstab utilizing both aspects?

Also, since the sigil of battle will stay on cooldown all the time (assuming you are always switching weapons) you either need to ditch them or ditch the sigils of strength. So we need a new sigil. Either way the calculations done above probably should be re-done.

purgatoryz.6038:

What about the high condition damage you get from the might stacks? That’s why I’m saying a hybrid build might be better for this. Maybe P/D and D/D? That way you can sneak attack and death blossom, but also backstab utilizing both aspects?

Also, since the sigil of battle will stay on cooldown all the time (assuming you are always switching weapons) you either need to ditch them or ditch the sigils of strength. So we need a new sigil. Either way the calculations done above probably should be re-done.

Yea you’re right i ditched the Sigils of Strength and used Force, but i doubt i will leave it at that. Prolly gonna use something else but have to think about which ones first. Sigil of Para might be a good choice to get that 3 second daze but i dont know…

I dont believe i will try a hybrid spec with this because i love double S/D to death, but u’re free to try it out and post ur results. It’s always nice to see how different playstyles work out.

I’ve actually switched from my original build with this (0 / 30 / 25 / 15 / 0) to a different trait setup. I’m now running 0 / 15 / 25 / 30 / 0 because i felt that it lacks a lot of sustain (mostly because of initiative) and the damage was a little bit over the top. With this setup i can use flanking strike and CnD much more effectly. I can also do the Flanking Strike rotation with it that jumpers build uses. 15 more into Acro also means +15% Boon Duration to keep the might up. The damage is still really good because of the might stacks, even tho i miss Executioner, but the trade off is just too good. I kinda fell in love with that build as a WvW roaming spec. I wouldn’t recommend it tho if you aint using Double S/D.

Molch.2078:

Your build

Epower: 7121 (24 Might)

Your build, but Rubyorbs + Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Epower: 7446 (15 might – thats 24 might without 60% boonduration and the buff food)

And every boonstrip on the enemy team, every buffing warrior/guard on your team is another reason to use Ruby Orbs + Squash Soup.

Tl; dr: You sacrifice too much to get those mightstacks.

I doubt you can maintain 15 stacks of might or get that much without the food and the runes tho, when i played 0 / 30 / 30 / 10 / 0 i averaged at 6-8

This might not be the end of all builds but it is sure fun as hell, and 25 might stacks feel kitten. Maintaining them thru out combat even more :P

Molch.2078:

Your build

Epower: 7121 (24 Might)

Your build, but Rubyorbs + Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Epower: 7446 (15 might – thats 24 might without 60% boonduration and the buff food)

And every boonstrip on the enemy team, every buffing warrior/guard on your team is another reason to use Ruby Orbs + Squash Soup.

Tl; dr: You sacrifice too much to get those mightstacks.

I might have just gotten home and been drinking, but Im pretty sure that site cnt account for stacks or duration increases or how much you gain and stuff. Making the EP stat it lists useless. Which is why earlier int eh day before I was drinking I posted a lot of maths I had to do to show whether or not it increased damage and by how much compared to other stuff.

kittennit.7648:

I’ve actually switched from my original build with this (0 / 30 / 25 / 15 / 0) to a different trait setup. I’m now running 0 / 15 / 25 / 30 / 0 because i felt that it lacks a lot of sustain (mostly because of initiative) and the damage was a little bit over the top. With this setup i can use flanking strike and CnD much more effectly. I can also do the Flanking Strike rotation with it that jumpers build uses. 15 more into Acro also means +15% Boon Duration to keep the might up. The damage is still really good because of the might stacks, even tho i miss Executioner, but the trade off is just too good. I kinda fell in love with that build as a WvW roaming spec. I wouldn’t recommend it tho if you aint using Double S/D.

Im glad you switched over to something with more ini regain, as I find that pretty crucial for double S/D. Post all your traits and gear and stuff and I’ll see if I can make it better tomorrow for you.

kittennit.7648:

Molch.2078:

Your build

Epower: 7121 (24 Might)

Your build, but Rubyorbs + Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Epower: 7446 (15 might – thats 24 might without 60% boonduration and the buff food)

And every boonstrip on the enemy team, every buffing warrior/guard on your team is another reason to use Ruby Orbs + Squash Soup.

Tl; dr: You sacrifice too much to get those mightstacks.

I doubt you can maintain 15 stacks of might or get that much without the food and the runes tho, when i played 0 / 30 / 30 / 10 / 0 i averaged at 6-8

This might not be the end of all builds but it is sure fun as hell, and 25 might stacks feel kitten. Maintaining them thru out combat even more :P

If you maintain 24 might with food, 15% from Acrobatics and 60% runes, you can maintain 24 × 1.15 / 1.75 = 15.7 might without runes (but with food)
Simple math.

So, if you remove the food, how much would you lose? 1? 2? Im sure with 14 stacks, the number wont change that much.

wish.1027:

I might have just gotten home and been drinking, but Im pretty sure that site cnt account for stacks or duration increases or how much you gain and stuff. Making the EP stat it lists useless. Which is why earlier int eh day before I was drinking I posted a lot of maths I had to do to show whether or not it increased damage and by how much compared to other stuff.

Sorry? Not sure what you want to say. You can calculate your Epower with might on this site.

Molch.2078:

kittennit.7648:

Molch.2078:

Your build

Epower: 7121 (24 Might)

Your build, but Rubyorbs + Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Epower: 7446 (15 might – thats 24 might without 60% boonduration and the buff food)

And every boonstrip on the enemy team, every buffing warrior/guard on your team is another reason to use Ruby Orbs + Squash Soup.

Tl; dr: You sacrifice too much to get those mightstacks.

I doubt you can maintain 15 stacks of might or get that much without the food and the runes tho, when i played 0 / 30 / 30 / 10 / 0 i averaged at 6-8

This might not be the end of all builds but it is sure fun as hell, and 25 might stacks feel kitten. Maintaining them thru out combat even more :P

If you maintain 24 might with food, 15% from Acrobatics and 60% runes, you can maintain 24 × 1.15 / 1.75 = 15.7 might without runes (but with food)
Simple math.

So, if you remove the food, how much would you lose? 1? 2? Im sure with 14 stacks, the number wont change that much.

wish.1027:

I might have just gotten home and been drinking, but Im pretty sure that site cnt account for stacks or duration increases or how much you gain and stuff. Making the EP stat it lists useless. Which is why earlier int eh day before I was drinking I posted a lot of maths I had to do to show whether or not it increased damage and by how much compared to other stuff.

Sorry? Not sure what you want to say. You can calculate your Epower with might on this site.

Would be quite interesting if you could try it out so we can see which is better, to go for the runes or for the orbs.

I am not sure what you want me to try. You can calculate, that rubyorbs provide more damage. And every field study would go even more in favour of orbs. You can’t remove them and they have no 25 limit.

Btw, I don’t want to say that this build is bad or anything. But I think it’s improvable.

Molch.2078:

I am not sure what you want me to try. You can calculate, that rubyorbs provide more damage. And every field study would go even more in favour of orbs. You can’t remove them and they have no 25 limit.

Btw, I don’t want to say that this build is bad or anything. But I think it’s improvable.

Yes definetly ! It’s just a concept at the moment and i’m still tweaking. I think i have the traits spot on now to be honest, atleast for double S/D with this setup. I’m still thinking about off hand sigils tho, not sure what to use. I’m deciding between Para and +5 crit chance.

I doubt ill drop the runes and the food tho, i have played with orbs and crit damage food way too long, i also really enjoy the perma vigor from the food, it’s so much survivability. I also have my doubts that orbs do more damage, atleast the damage i do right now feels a lot higher than the damage i did with my old spec (0 / 30 / 20 / 20 / 0), when i hit 20+ mights it feels like a lot more damage than i did with orbs and executioner triggering. I wasnt using Bloodlust with my old build tho so the 250 attack definetly make a difference there.

Having run Might-based builds quite a bit, I favor Trickery hugely over Shadow Arts. Trickery V lets you leverage that boon duration/Might even more. Furthermore, condition damage is very important for getting the most out of Might stacks, and Trickery lets you further boost that condition damage as well as letting you pick up dodgetrops to apply bleeds with your frequent dodging.

If you want to push even more Might, since you should be running both Signet of Agility and Signet of Malice (due to dodgetrops) you can pick up Signets of Power from Critical Strikes for massive burst Might whenever you want it.

All of the people straight-up ignoring 50 % of the benefit of Might by only looking at the power-based benefits are probably not the type that’ll most benefit from a Might-heavy build anyways.

tl;dr – Shadow Arts doesn’t do Might particularly well, but if you’re already running a stealth-heavy build and want to integrate Might it can work.

Tulisin.6945:

Having run Might-based builds quite a bit, I favor Trickery hugely over Shadow Arts. Trickery V lets you leverage that boon duration/Might even more. Furthermore, condition damage is very important for getting the most out of Might stacks, and Trickery lets you further boost that condition damage as well as letting you pick up dodgetrops to apply bleeds with your frequent dodging.

If you want to push even more Might, since you should be running both Signet of Agility and Signet of Malice (due to dodgetrops) you can pick up Signets of Power from Critical Strikes for massive burst Might whenever you want it.

All of the people straight-up ignoring 50 % of the benefit of Might by only looking at the power-based benefits are probably not the type that’ll most benefit from a Might-heavy build anyways.

tl;dr – Shadow Arts doesn’t do Might particularly well, but if you’re already running a stealth-heavy build and want to integrate Might it can work.

I was thinking about the 5 might from signets but it is not needed, they last way too short and i can maintain 20+ without them. I’m also not a fan of SoM, atleast not in small scale, i use it in PvE and blob fights tho, it’s really strong with the shortbow. If you want to “burst” might stacks you can drop a refugee, thats 8 stacks right there that last 20+ seconds. I’m not really sure about trickery V too, 1 stack every 45 seconds (base cooldown, i know it’s a bit less if you trait into trickery) is pretty meh…

And as you probably know, S/D has pretty much no condition so thats out of question :P

I’d love to see someone try a power / conditon hybrid with this setup tho and see how it works out, i figure P/D + D/D would work quite well.

Edit: I just noticed the might stacks last a lot longer than i was thinking. The 2 from dodge rolling / stealthing last 27 seconds, weapon swap lasts 37 seconds.

SquirtleMilk.5463:

Nice! This might be the ultimate pve build! Thanks for sharing!

Not really….

1. P/D is bullkitten, S/P is just for trashmobs, S/D is bullkitten if you use stealth b/c Tactical Strike is too weak… pls use D/D
2. If you have 1 ele or 2 warrior you lose tons of DPS b/c of the might cap
3. Molch is right, the build is good but not the food, the runes, the sigils and the way he plays it

with ruby orbs, + 10% dmg against an specific enemy type and + 10% dmg at night/ + 5% dmg you do more damage.

Compare it, calculate it: 25 stacks of might vs 10 stacks (+15 stacks with your team) + ~30-35% dmg

Anubarak.3012:

SquirtleMilk.5463:

Nice! This might be the ultimate pve build! Thanks for sharing!

Not really….

1. P/D is bullkitten, S/P is just for trashmobs, S/D is bullkitten if you use stealth b/c Tactical Strike is too weak… pls use D/D
2. If you have 1 ele or 2 warrior you lose tons of DPS b/c of the might cap
3. Molch is right, the build is good but not the food, the runes, the sigils and the way he plays it

with ruby orbs, + 10% dmg against an specific enemy type and + 10% dmg at night/ + 5% dmg you do more damage.

Compare it, calculate it: 25 stacks of might vs 10 stacks (+15 stacks with your team) + ~30-35% dmg

Not to mention that you generaly have people in ur party to grant u might so it’s not needed.

I mentioned earlier that i wouldn’t recommend it for PvE that much.

Ok, my fail… I would recommend you to mention that in your first post

Babayum.9204:

Molch.2078:

wish.1027:

I might have just gotten home and been drinking, but Im pretty sure that site cnt account for stacks or duration increases or how much you gain and stuff. Making the EP stat it lists useless. Which is why earlier int eh day before I was drinking I posted a lot of maths I had to do to show whether or not it increased damage and by how much compared to other stuff.

Sorry? Not sure what you want to say. You can calculate your Epower with might on this site.

Would be quite interesting if you could try it out so we can see which is better, to go for the runes or for the orbs.

I was drinking a bit, Strike Force guild represent!, anyway, your links dont work because you cant link the build and have it keep track of might stacks for others when they click the link. So the numbers you posted are different than what you see when you click the link. Also the site isnt super reliable to give good answers. It thinks Sharpening Stones are better than Oils for instance. Whenever the end results are close when comparing two things you should always do the math yourself and post it for others to double check your work.

(Im not saying youre incorrect in the things you said, just that you should do things a bit differently)

kittennit.7648:

Not to mention that you generaly have people in ur party to grant u might so it’s not needed.

If we’re going to talk about group play also, this is correct, this build would never win if other people are giving you might.

just throwing it out there, for those p/d enthousiasts…if you went power instead of crit (what?). You’d be getting lots of power+condi duration which would go nicely with p/d. You also get venomous strength. Which lets you add in venoms so you can stack poison/weakness/whatever on top of your bleeds. Say you have 2-3 venoms, thats 4-6 stacks of might that you can get up-front, on top of your 2 from weapon swap and what you get from stealthing/dodging. If you lead with dodge + cnd, then swap weapons and hit 1, you’d have 12+ stacks just in time for that stealth attack with all those nice bleeds/extra conditions.

This does mean that the might on crit sigils don’t matter as much, maybe replace them with something like sigil of ice.

wish.1027:

Molch.2078:

Your build

Epower: 7121 (24 Might)

Your build, but Rubyorbs + Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash Soup

Epower: 7446 (15 might – thats 24 might without 60% boonduration and the buff food)

And every boonstrip on the enemy team, every buffing warrior/guard on your team is another reason to use Ruby Orbs + Squash Soup.

Tl; dr: You sacrifice too much to get those mightstacks.

I might have just gotten home and been drinking, but Im pretty sure that site cnt account for stacks or duration increases or how much you gain and stuff. Making the EP stat it lists useless. Which is why earlier int eh day before I was drinking I posted a lot of maths I had to do to show whether or not it increased damage and by how much compared to other stuff.

kittennit.7648:

I’ve actually switched from my original build with this (0 / 30 / 25 / 15 / 0) to a different trait setup. I’m now running 0 / 15 / 25 / 30 / 0 because i felt that it lacks a lot of sustain (mostly because of initiative) and the damage was a little bit over the top. With this setup i can use flanking strike and CnD much more effectly. I can also do the Flanking Strike rotation with it that jumpers build uses. 15 more into Acro also means +15% Boon Duration to keep the might up. The damage is still really good because of the might stacks, even tho i miss Executioner, but the trade off is just too good. I kinda fell in love with that build as a WvW roaming spec. I wouldn’t recommend it tho if you aint using Double S/D.

Im glad you switched over to something with more ini regain, as I find that pretty crucial for double S/D. Post all your traits and gear and stuff and I’ll see if I can make it better tomorrow for you.

To the last sentence of you,

this is the exact build im using currently

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|c.1p.h1h.8.1p.hd|c.1p.h1h.8.0.hd|1p.77.1p.77.1p.79.1p.79.1p.7d.1p.7d|2s.d1a.3s.d17.2s.d1a.2s.d14.3s.d1a.2u.d14|0.f3.p45.u29c.0|1b.7|57.5b.5c.5g.5u|e

I dont think i could tweak it even further to be honest (atleast trait / sigil wise, atleast not for what i want to do, which means might stacking). Gear im not sure, i want to stay as offensive as possible while still maintaining a good amount of HP. I dont really want to lose any more damage (not running 30 into CS with Exe is enough :P ). But it would be cool if you could help me to tweak the gear so i get a bit more defensive while still maintaining the same damage.

Note: NOT a PvE build, this is a WvW skirmishing build.

Full zerker thiefs do more damage with a 25-30-x-x-x build with 0 stacks of might with d/d.

Ive used this build since the flanking strike buff patch in Spvp:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cF3F3;0RwF_06-V-Vd0;9;5T-T9;117A;118B4T

Always high-full might stacks during a fight, even without the food. I run the sigil of fire as my other sigil.

The popular build uses vigor on heal and and extra dodge every 9 seconds, but I find that the huge boost in damage (pressure) makes up for this loss.