Guild Wars 2

Trying to figure out what just happened to me.

From stealth I think I was hit with the needle trap because I couldn’t move, and my bar was filled with conditions, removed as many as possible, and couldn’t remove the immobilize, and I was dead in maybe 3 ticks.

Any help to understand what I just faced would be appreciated.

And this isn’t a troll post, trying to understand the build to figure out a counter.

Are you saying that after all of this time, you have no idea what a ghost thief is? Because that’s what killed you.

3 ticks sounds like bullkitten, but the build that got you is bullkitten too. Anet loves it though.

Cygnus.6903:

3 ticks sounds like bullkitten, but the build that got you is bullkitten too. Anet loves it though.

Maybe 4 ticks… I’m not trying to troll. Just know that after I used all of my condi clear I still had them on my bar and still died and never saw the thief.

Guess I need to google ghost thief.

Googled ghost thief… Yes I am aware of the thief stealth mechanic.

This isn’t a question about not seeing the thief, it is about the condi bomb.

It is stealth camping trapper thief, combination of traps, procs, food and traits killed you. You may thank the community (constantly complaining about power builds) and Anet for consistently nerfing power builds and buffing cheesy crap like trapper/condi builds.
If you ever complained about power builds from thief, you may thank yourself for the results you just experienced.

Cynz.9437:

It is stealth camping trapper thief, combination of traps, procs, food and traits killed you. You may thank the community (constantly complaining about power builds) and Anet for consistently nerfing power builds and buffing cheesy crap like trapper/condi builds.
If you ever complained about power builds from thief, you may thank yourself for the results you just experienced.

Thanks for the reply. It was vicious, and I just don’t see a way to counter it because I didn’t have enough condi clear (and I’m speced for condi clear).

MrSilver.5269:

Cynz.9437:

It is stealth camping trapper thief, combination of traps, procs, food and traits killed you. You may thank the community (constantly complaining about power builds) and Anet for consistently nerfing power builds and buffing cheesy crap like trapper/condi builds.
If you ever complained about power builds from thief, you may thank yourself for the results you just experienced.

Thanks for the reply. It was vicious, and I just don’t see a way to counter it because I didn’t have enough condi clear (and I’m speced for condi clear).

Piece of advice: if you can, don’t stand on same place nor follow the thief. At the end it is same as with DH – do not stand in traps duhh. Just ignore him and proceed going somewhere else, he won’t be able to kill you. If you play engi or rev, reveal is your friend. Same as reveal trap.

What are you running?

saerni.2584:

What are you running?

I’m running a tradition mesmer with inspiration for condi clear, and arcane thievery, torch with condi clear trait. My blink was down so I couldn’t escape trap.

How many condi can you clear instantly/on demand?

Yup its a stupid build. I normally have no problems with people running this but its game breaking sometimes in wvw where the thief can hide inside a keep during off peak hours and noone bothers helping to kill them. Yeah and don’t chase after or fight them especially on walls and bridge, teleport not working there makes it worse.

saerni.2584:

How many condi can you clear instantly/on demand?

Generally 6, but I was on cooldown… more if I hit arcane thievery.

Ghost thief burst takes a few seconds to build up applications. Wait for half a tick and then clear the condi. Their cool downs will be high enough to prevent easy reapplication. If blink is up you can also avoid them entirely.

Also my hint is to watch the ground. There is a puff of smoke when they place a trap if they are not trying to just drop them right on top of you. If you see a trap dodge through it. Thief traps are single trigger unlike with DH so you can dodge once to avoid the full effect. Stay mobile and if you see a red circle move away from it to force them to chase you. They need to restealth often enough that you can frustrate them if you just keep on moving.

While the needle trap will likely be more used in this build due to poison add, this can not be called trapper thief IMHO. This is ghost thief pure and simple using Needle to add to conditions. One trap does not a trapper build make and calling it a trapper is akin to calling it a Caltrops thief or perplexity thief. It inaccurate and does not help to illustrate how they work.

This is what they can now do.

I am summing thief built for maximum condition application thus using a Rune such as Perplexity.

Load a needle trap somewhere on the map. Ideally needle trap comes off cooldown on your toolbar in meantime.

Enemy steps on trap. Preload needle and steal to enemy using BA out of trickery.

This is 8 poison 6 bleeds 10 vuln , weakness , and 5 confusion loaded on target. Do a heal on top target. This drops another needle and will apply 3 confusion via runes. Drop caltrops.

This is 11 poison 9 bleed 15 vuln weakness and 8 confusion. If asura you can then use pain inverter for 3 more confusion. Added to this will be the bleeds and cripples from caltrops. Weapons are not used to do anything but apply stealth via stacking. Uncatchable is also used to dodge through Immobbed target for bleed/cripple adds.

The keys are the steal and the IMMObile inside the caltrops field all while staying stealthed. The ability to stay stealthed makes it harder for an enemy such as a necro to send those conditions back to the thief. Under most circumstances the bulk of damage does not come from the traps but from the Confusion adds and both caltrops sources.

To defend you need mobility and the ability to maintain it to get out of those fields and out of his range along with those cleanses They have to maintain stealth via black powder and HS and while doing that count on you remaining nearby. Classes with minimal mobility or immob breaks can be susceptible.

Something like a boon duration warrior with high resistance is all but immune to these things.

babazhook.6805:

While the needle trap will likely be more used in this build due to poison add, this can not be called trapper thief IMHO. This is ghost thief pure and simple using Needle to add to conditions. One trap does not a trapper build make and calling it a trapper is akin to calling it a Caltrops thief or perplexity thief. It inaccurate and does not help to illustrate how they work.

This is what they can now do.

I am summing thief built for maximum condition application thus using a Rune such as Perplexity.

Load a needle trap somewhere on the map. Ideally needle trap comes off cooldown on your toolbar in meantime.

Enemy steps on trap. Preload needle and steal to enemy using BA out of trickery.

This is 8 poison 6 bleeds 10 vuln , weakness , and 5 confusion loaded on target. Do a heal on top target. This drops another needle and will apply 3 confusion via runes. Drop caltrops.

This is 11 poison 9 bleed 15 vuln weakness and 8 confusion. If asura you can then use pain inverter for 3 more confusion. Added to this will be the bleeds and cripples from caltrops. Weapons are not used to do anything but apply stealth via stacking. Uncatchable is also used to dodge through Immobbed target for bleed/cripple adds.

The keys are the steal and the IMMObile inside the caltrops field all while staying stealthed. The ability to stay stealthed makes it harder for an enemy such as a necro to send those conditions back to the thief. Under most circumstances the bulk of damage does not come from the traps but from the Confusion adds and both caltrops sources.

To defend you need mobility and the ability to maintain it to get out of those fields and out of his range along with those cleanses They have to maintain stealth via black powder and HS and while doing that count on you remaining nearby. Classes with minimal mobility or immob breaks can be susceptible.

Something like a boon duration warrior with high resistance is all but immune to these things.

Awesome feedback. Thank you.

Looks like I just walked into the perfect storm. Problem obviously is that the thief can just reset the fight, but then again as a PU condi mesmer what’s good for the goose I guess.

Here how counter it go buy Stealth distributor at the the trap guy build it with 10 supply and stand on and wait for them come for you.

MrSilver.5269:

Thanks for the reply. It was vicious, and I just don’t see a way to counter it because I didn’t have enough condi clear (and I’m speced for condi clear).

Running away helps, as a ghost thief, all my crap is on CD for at least 15s. If you can’t book it by then you kinda deserve it.

medusashadow.3567:

Here how counter it go buy Stealth distributor at the the trap guy build it with 10 supply and stand on and wait for them come for you.

I usually send my thieves guild after people who I think are standing on traps, triggers any traps they have.

Here is some additional advice, put up swiftness and be moving constantly if you are aware a ghost thief is near. If the thief is able to pop you with the immob burst during movement, then you are dealing with an above avg ghoster. If you are able to clear the first round of burst, quickly deploy a stealth disruptor while the ghost thief is in stealth waiting for his burst rotation to come back. Odd are, if the thief does see you drop it he will not reengage. If the thief was too focused on stack stealth and not paying attension to your character animation the next round he goes in for he is pretty much screwed. Some ghost thieves dont use shadowstep or a shortbow in order for more dps, if that is the case, they are definatly screwed.

another thing that you can do, is attack in his black powder if you can spot it… and if you think you will be able to survive… but a fight against them is usually pretty one sided if you are not on a profession with good resistance and condi clear.

Not really a PvP player or WvW’er here, but I have a feeling you probably got hit with all the traps and quite likely a few weapon sigils as well to proc additional conditions as buffers against cleansing (old GW1 mentality, that). Something like Sinister gear or the more damaging Viper prefix would explain the intense damage, as well as condition-spec runes for Bleeding or Poison, which would stack nicely with a Venom or two and Needle Trap and Caltrops (this one I believe applies constantly over the duration, which could ramp damage if you were immobilized on it). Basilisk could MAYBE explain the funky immobilized, too? Not sure, I almost never use it and haven’t seen it that often in the wild (thanks mostly to everything being covered in fire or cool effects from other classes).

I’d say there’s not really a solid counter, especially with the cleansing reworks, since it’s kind of a draw for what gets removed rather than being a “pop” of the last applied every time. At least that’s sort of what I recall from when they redid conditions for the millionth time. I myself and rather curious to hear more about this build, though, since it sounds both incredibly counter-intuitive to use and potentially intriguing to research for other applications when I faff around in PvE-land.

Thief drops Needle Trap, thief heals and drops second Needle Trap. Thief waits. Player hits both traps, Thief steals for Confusion, activates Elite so Krait fires adding cover condi, drops Caltrops, drops Needle Trap since it recharges from when it was placed not when it was tripped and then dodges for more bleeds.

… and watches most players melt.

The ability to drop the same trap 3 times on a player from stealth, hit them with 5 stacks confusion, proc rune condi application, etc all without popping a reveal is a stupid design. Leaving that in the game for two balance patches after numerous complaints… that borders on purposeful kittenry.

Obviously they disagree given that they buffed the traps.

saerni.2584:

Obviously they disagree given that they buffed the traps.

or……have…. no…. clue. Traps are extremely underrepresented (or rather non-existent) in pve and pvp so they just slap some nerfs on viable specs and proceed promoting condi play that nobody with common sense would use in those game modes.

Traps aren’t the problem though. Permanent stealth may be but not the traps. Think about how much DH traps do and thief traps look fairly tame in comparison.

Maybe they will eventually get rid of stealth stacking, but that will be because thief traps are finally a real threat and not something only newer players die to. They want traps to be viable and adding direct damage back onto them would make them far less so.

We are all speculating. It goes to show they dun give a rats behind about what’s being said here, because complaints about this anti-fun spec have been plenty.

To a ghost thief you die because you are immobilized, can’t clear it because of cover conditions and won’t be able to walk out of other stuff like caltrops he throws at you.

Adding direct damage to the Needle Trap for reveal would add counterplay. No further balancing needed.

It would not even destroy the purpose of the Needle Trap as it is designed to setup further damage (that would reveal you anyway) or secure your retreat after you have been engaged (which means you are not in stealth = no reveal debuff on trigger).

Doesn’t seem to be a good counter though. How are you gonna kill a thief in Dire in that short reveal window?

20k ish HP for full dire. Less if they run some trailblazers or other set.

Once they are forced out of stealth they will be burning initiative to regain it. You just need to interrupt their leap and force BP to expire to make them stay visible. Drop AoE traps on top of yourself and then more AoE on the BP if they are in stealth.

saerni.2584:

20k ish HP for full dire. Less if they run some trailblazers or other set.

Once they are forced out of stealth they will be burning initiative to regain it. You just need to interrupt their leap and force BP to expire to make them stay visible. Drop AoE traps on top of yourself and then more AoE on the BP if they are in stealth.

20k HP on something with 3k defense is pretty disgusting…

Once they are out of stealth, they can dodge, dodge again, dodge again, dodge yet again, use shadow step, use shortbow 5, really. A thief that doesn’t use this decease of a build is hard enough to kill. Ghosts still retain enough of those options to survive a few seconds of reveal.

‘You just need to interrupt the leap’. For a lot of classes that means you have to reach the BP first.

People acting like it’s easy to do anything against this build are almost as bad as it’s users.

Look. Anet wants to see traps being used, hence the buffs, and the problem with ghost thief is D/P stealth stacking, not traps. The only way ghost thief will be balanced is if anet nerfs stealth stacking, which hurts D/P meta. Is that what you all really want?

I play P/D trapper thief when there’s lots of builds my power bud struggles with, it’s plenty strong atm even without permanent stealth. I’ve killed ghost thieves by intentionally taking a burst while stood on shadow trap, cleansing, then using shadow trap’s port to apply my own needle trap burst. You can also see where the traps are placed if you watch carefully, and dodge through them to waste their cds. On staff thief I dodge the traps, then wait for black powder and Shadow refuge and aoe the crap out of it to force them out of stealth (eventually). Most ghost thieves aren’t that good and panic when the other guy is hitting you through stealth, take advantage of that.

Yeah, it’s an utter cheese build. But it’s killable with permanent stealth, and the only way to remove permanent stealth is to nerf D/P. Again, is that what you all really want?

Ghost thieves often run a core build. Core builds have a more limited number of dodges. Also, I can’t speak to every class vs this thief. Every class may or may not have a counter depending on a lot of factors. My only ability to comment is based on a general understanding of playing thief and fighting thieves. 20k disappears quite quickly without protection. Many attacks hit for 5-10k even with 3k armor. And unlike a Daredevil the hp regen won’t be that high either.

Sure a ghost thief can run away quickly with short bow but only if they no longer are in stealth to do it. At that point you are complaining about an entirely different thing, thief mobility. Stealth stacking by blinding powder is why this build works more than anything else. People should focus on the duration of blinding powder if they really want to insist on a targeted nerf to this build. But that would need D/P and make lots of thieves very unhappy who are not ghost players.

The problem isn’t the trap it is that a thief can stack stealth for ridiculous periods of time. Stealth stacking needs to die. This applies to D/P builds as a whole.

Stealth in this game was never meant to be a perma-status otherwise the reveal should be long like other games with stealth.

Removing stealth stacking is not the way to go IMO. Thief relies on that in other areas as well, so it’d be a huge nerf.

Just give traps a damage portion and a longer reveal. Say, the duration of the conditions applied.

Straegen.2938:

The problem isn’t the trap it is that a thief can stack stealth for ridiculous periods of time. Stealth stacking needs to die. This applies to D/P builds as a whole.

Stealth in this game was never meant to be a perma-status otherwise the reveal should be long like other games with stealth.

Removal of stealth stacking lowers the Thiefs overall condition cleanses , heals , initiative gains , movement ability and damage mitigation all of which are enhanced the longer one stays in stealth. SE just as example would take a significant hit in Condition cleanse potential.

All of this together all but eliminates SA as a viable choice as a traitline which hurts Core thief and forces more people into taking DD as a matter of course.

Were stealth stacking removed all of this would need looking at such as…

SE providing two cleanses at each click that being as soon as stealth entered and at the 3 seconds for a total of four per stealth, A higher return on INI and heal out of Rejuv , boosting Shadow resilience mitigation to 50 percent and boosting the duration of the regen from shadow protector on applying stealth.

SA is already seen as a “weak” traitline and all of the returns on these abilities will take a hit if stealth can not be stacked.This in turn would have a ripple effect and diminish other skills and utilities one might only use in conjunction with the SA line.

babazhook.6805:

Straegen.2938:

The problem isn’t the trap it is that a thief can stack stealth for ridiculous periods of time. Stealth stacking needs to die. This applies to D/P builds as a whole.

Stealth in this game was never meant to be a perma-status otherwise the reveal should be long like other games with stealth.

Removal of stealth stacking lowers the Thiefs overall condition cleanses , heals , initiative gains , movement ability and damage mitigation all of which are enhanced the longer one stays in stealth. SE just as example would take a significant hit in Condition cleanse potential.

All of this together all but eliminates SA as a viable choice as a traitline which hurts Core thief and forces more people into taking DD as a matter of course.

Were stealth stacking removed all of this would need looking at such kitten providing two cleanses at each click that being as soon as stealth entered and at the 3 seconds for a total of four per stealth, A higher return on INI and heal out of Rejuv , boosting Shadow resilience mitigation to 50 percent and boosting the duration of the regen from shadow protector on applying stealth.

SA is already seen as a “weak” traitline and all of the returns on these abilities will take a hit if stealth can not be stacked.This in turn would have a ripple effect and diminish other skills and utilities one might only use in conjunction with the SA line.

Tbf, SA is not a viable line as is. Both Daredevil and Acro are better choices for defensive traitlines. SA only serves as a gimmicky traitline to strip tons of boons or troll people in WvW.

I use SA in my very much not a troll build.

babazhook.6805:

Removal of stealth stacking lowers the Thiefs overall condition cleanses , heals , initiative gains , movement ability and damage mitigation all of which are enhanced the longer one stays in stealth. SE just as example would take a significant hit in Condition cleanse potential.

We aren’t talking about removing stealth or the many ways a thief can access it. Instead players would have to “come up for air” more frequently allowing for more counter play.

The ability to attack a player from stealth and then disappear 3s later for an undetermined amount of time is a balancing nightmare. Removing the ability to disappear for ridiculously long periods of time without being visible and with no counter play is sensible. This includes other classes as well.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Removal of stealth stacking lowers the Thiefs overall condition cleanses , heals , initiative gains , movement ability and damage mitigation all of which are enhanced the longer one stays in stealth. SE just as example would take a significant hit in Condition cleanse potential.

We aren’t talking about removing stealth or the many ways a thief can access it. Instead players would have to “come up for air” more frequently allowing for more counter play.

The ability to attack a player from stealth and then disappear 3s later for an undetermined amount of time is a balancing nightmare. Removing the ability to disappear for ridiculously long periods of time without being visible and with no counter play is sensible. This includes other classes as well.

Be that as it may it a fact that many of the benefits of the SA line increase the longer one stays in stealth. If people are “forced to come up for air” then there will be less healing, ini gain and condition cleanses if one uses SA for those things.

Given A person can evade/dodge just as example and gain ini from the same via upper hand or healing and condition cleanse from an EA or Driven Fortitude , it very much like increasing the duration of a cleanse off ea to 5 seconds or putting an ICD on Fortitude and upper hand of the same.

Less time in stealth means LESS of those things even as there no decrease to the cleanses one gets from EA or the INI from upper hand meaning the SA line becomes less competitive.

I understand what you are trying to do but it can not happen in a vacuum. If stealth stacking removed those traits In the SA line that I speak off will need to be made better.

babazhook.6805:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Removal of stealth stacking lowers the Thiefs overall condition cleanses , heals , initiative gains , movement ability and damage mitigation all of which are enhanced the longer one stays in stealth. SE just as example would take a significant hit in Condition cleanse potential.

We aren’t talking about removing stealth or the many ways a thief can access it. Instead players would have to “come up for air” more frequently allowing for more counter play.

The ability to attack a player from stealth and then disappear 3s later for an undetermined amount of time is a balancing nightmare. Removing the ability to disappear for ridiculously long periods of time without being visible and with no counter play is sensible. This includes other classes as well.

Be that as it may it a fact that many of the benefits of the SA line increase the longer one stays in stealth. If people are “forced to come up for air” then there will be less healing, ini gain and condition cleanses if one uses SA for those things.

Given A person can evade/dodge just as example and gain ini from the same via upper hand or healing and condition cleanse from an EA or Driven Fortitude , it very much like increasing the duration of a cleanse off ea to 5 seconds or putting an ICD on Fortitude and upper hand of the same.

Less time in stealth means LESS of those things even as there no decrease to the cleanses one gets from EA or the INI from upper hand meaning the SA line becomes less competitive.

I understand what you are trying to do but it can not happen in a vacuum. If stealth stacking removed those traits In the SA line that I speak off will need to be made better.

That’s actually a well put argument. I never thought of it that way! +1

saerni.2584:

I use SA in my very much not a troll build.

Everybody runs sub-optimal stuff from time to time, no worries.

Lol, it’s hardly suboptimal. But you probably don’t care to understand the theory crafting or build so I’ll just leave it there.

babazhook.6805:

Be that as it may it a fact that many of the benefits of the SA line increase the longer one stays in stealth. If people are “forced to come up for air” then there will be less healing, ini gain and condition cleanses if one uses SA for those things.

Skills such as CnD, Steal, Blinding Powder, etc will still generate the same duration of stealth just not all at once. Players could still CnD… wait 4s… Steal… wait 3s… Blinding Powder. Same up time but more skill required to maintain contiguous stealth.

The only direct nerf here is to Black Powder since a player wouldn’t be able to get 9s of stealth off of one. In this case, it would likely make sense to lower the cost of BP from say 6 to 4 or 5 depending on how it plays.

The change allows for more counter play and requires more skill to chain long stealth uptime. SA would still very much be a strong traitline.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Be that as it may it a fact that many of the benefits of the SA line increase the longer one stays in stealth. If people are “forced to come up for air” then there will be less healing, ini gain and condition cleanses if one uses SA for those things.

Skills such as CnD, Steal, Blinding Powder, etc will still generate the same duration of stealth just not all at once. Players could still CnD… wait 4s… Steal… wait 3s… Blinding Powder. Same up time but more skill required to maintain contiguous stealth.

The only direct nerf here is to Black Powder since a player wouldn’t be able to get 9s of stealth off of one. In this case, it would likely make sense to lower the cost of BP from say 6 to 4 or 5 depending on how it plays.

The change allows for more counter play and requires more skill to chain long stealth uptime. SA would still very much be a strong traitline.

Disagreed. I am all for counter play but there are repercussions.

Assuming SA traited for condition cleanse, on a stealth of 4 seconds two cleanses are made before one has to come out and face the music again. This will very often leave yet other conditions on the player. Contrast that to the EA cleanse which a person can use to cleanse every time they evade. In theory in those same 4 seconds EA can cleanse 4 conditions.

Your proposal then forces the thief out of hiding for four seconds where he could not cleanse at all for that period whereas the EA user can continue to do so.

The stealth for INI will garner one INI per stealth out of rejuv. No Ini would be generated for the next 4 seconds because reveal is forced. Upper hand can continue to generate INI and Regen through that entire period on its 2 second cooldown.

Driven Fortitude another example when it comes to health. On stealth with forced reveal one will only get 4 tics of health gain then none for the next 4 seconds whereas DD can generate health (and more of it) on every evade even as Upper hand can continue to kick in its own regen on evade.

In all of these examples forcing reveal after 4 seconds AS the system currently implemented will mean relatively less INI and health gain and less condition cleanses since a person can no longer chain stealth and stealth is in effect put on cooldown.

The cleanses, healing and INI gain offered by the SA line are all over time functions meaning if you do chain stealth you will garner more benefit from the same. If you limit the time one can spend in stealth then those benefits are lessened.

This shifts the weight of traitlines even more in favor of DD and or Acro over SA. You can not look at SA and what it does in isolation. You have to acknowledge that a person who does not trait SA can stealth almost as easily , gaining many of its benefits while at the same time maintaining the advantges that Acro/DD offer. Unless there benefits form entering stealth over and above what one can gain from other traitlines there less reason to use it.

Think of it this way. Upper hand can generate 4 ini and full uptime on regen over an 8 second period as a GM trait. With stealth stacking over that 8 seconds Rejuv generates two ini and around 2300 in heals. You want to cut the INI that can be gained via rejuv in that 8 second period to 1 and the heal to 1150. In game terms relative to a GM trait that provides the same benefits (healing and INI) Upper hand in a non stealth stacking world is VERY much a better choice.

babazhook.6805:

Assuming SA traited for condition cleanse, on a stealth of 4 seconds two cleanses are made before one has to come out and face the music again. This will very often leave yet other conditions on the player. Contrast that to the EA cleanse which a person can use to cleanse every time they evade. In theory in those same 4 seconds EA can cleanse 4 conditions.

EA is a fine supplemental condi manager but EA has strong counter play. I do it all the time, load a thief up with condi and stop attacking.

That aside the amount of condi clear for everything save D/P remains unchanged. Today I can CnD, Steal, Blinding Powder all at once for about 12s of stealth or roughly 5 condi clears. With the change a player can CnD (two condi clears), Steal (one condi clear), Blinding Powder (two condi clears). They just have to be watching their stealth timer to maximize that time. It is the same duration with one exception (BP).

What they won’t be able to do is attack a player, dodge twice, drop Black Powder and vanish without burning a few more skills. Rather than passive Stealth management shifting it to an active system doesn’t penalize good players just lazy ones. It also breaks Ghost Thief and limits D/P Stealth which lets be honest has been broke since launch.

the way you fight con thief is you wait for him to drop his bomb then con clear it then he go on CD for 30 seconds you pray your con removal is shorter CD then that otherwise you better just run well you can XD.

saerni.2584:

Lol, it’s hardly suboptimal. But you probably don’t care to understand the theory crafting or build so I’ll just leave it there.

That’s so weak, I’ll just leave it there.

So are you interested in the build or just name calling? Your choice, because frankly I don’t have time to entertain your petty attitude.

All of you that play this build and anet jokers balance team members should get girlfriends in real life. They would be happier and think thing trough before making this mess.