Guild Wars 2

So i’m bored with my thief atm being full zerker, when the game first release my first build was a condition thief so i’m looking to switch back to condi.

What armor and jewels should i use? i was looking at the TP thinking that a Condi/healing/toughness armors would be ideal for me but i don’t think they exist, so what is the ideal gear for a death blossom spam build?

Apothecary armor with healing/toughness/condi damages has high sustain. Put an assassins reward up the acrobatics tree in there and a SOM for healing and you are hard to kill.

Settlers is another option but has toughness as the main stat. Most I see taking that route go Apothecary.

Apothecary sucks. Dire or go play warrior thx.

Why? Because Dire doesn’t waste any stat points at all. Tough+Vit+Condi with Condi being primary. That’s the ideal…IDEAL…meaning you can survive condis because you have enough vit and you take less damage because you have toughness, and you dish out max condi because it’s the primary stat.

In PvE, it would be better to use carrion than dire.

In WvW, dire is the best, but it’s also very boring, not to mention you shouldn’t use D/D with this gear.

In sPvP, condi thief is not viable no matter how you build it.

>>In WvW, dire is the best, but it’s also very boring, not to mention you shouldn’t use D/D with this gear.

Simply not true. I use dire with d/d and it works great. DB is superior at laying down bleeds over P/d. The AOE of db works great with mesmers that just invisoed and the clones.

In Pve D/d is great on trash mobs and on champions or veterans and their minions. Target the Champion or veteran with a few Dbs and and the AOE will stack the bleeds rapidly on the minions. The minions will go down without ever being a target and you can often rally off them.

If one is using SOM , the DB aoe adds oodles of life.

Heartseeker is incredibly useful in a condition build that uses p/d in opposite hands as it can chase down an opponent that is running using it as a gap closer. (lacking in p/d but I have used it to finish off those warriors that decided to run)

The type of rune set used along with the type of utilities and traits one has are more important when determining weapon sets then is the armor type.

Now the off hand weapon set is d/d and I would never use these utilities in WvW but it works fine in PvE. The 3600 attack makes for great backstabs and heartseekers. Your Auto attack does great raw damage and usind a combo of d/d and p/d you can get down 12+ stacks of bleeds doing 150/tick easily along with torments.

@up
Using Death Blossom in sPvP or WvW is a mistake, because your entire damage output is all about bleeds. Pure bleeds deal rather weak damage. They need cover of burn, poison and other condis, and are easy to cleanse. Not to mention you have to be in melee range to apply them as d/d.

About mesmers – cluster bomb with power/crit gear is 100x better than condi DB, add to it sb’s auto-attack and these clones with their master are roasted.

About PvE – same as above, and to be honest, everything works in PvE…

About signet of malice – it is the best with shortbow and sword (pistol whip), and these two weapons are all about power/crit damage.

I’m not claiming this is the best, but I’ve had a lot of luck and a lot of fun using this build:

Deadly Arts 30 IV, VIII, XII
Critical Strikes 0
Shadow Arts 0
Acrobatics 20 II, VIII
Trickery 20 III, X

With Carrion equipment. D/D and P/P. Gives you the option of switching to direct damage if your conditions aren’t working.

Best? No. And I know some people hate poisons, but you could probably switch that.

Can be very effective at times. Kind of plays like a grenade. Venoms x2 or x3 (might), Steal, DB DB DB, dodge out (caltrops might and swiftness) Pistols, direct damage. You could also finish with a stealth and use the pistol bleed stealth shot.

>>Using Death Blossom in sPvP or WvW is a mistake, because your entire damage output is all about bleeds. Pure bleeds deal rather weak damage

First and foremost all thief condition builds rely on bleeds to do the bulk of the damage.

Secondly no condition thief will ever lay down just one condition. Generally the target will have poison on it (from steal and DA line) along with weakness. You can also get poison and endurance regen from the autoattack chain.

P/d adds torment to be sure but using a single venom to your bar adds that to d/d as well.

Thirdly DB inflicts 10 seconds of bleeds versus the 4 from p/d and from shortbows.
This is HUGE. If one is facing a Runes of Melandru warrior using -40 condition food the p/d attack will get you ONE tick of bleeds versus 4 from deathblossom.

Yes the p/d user can use condition duration food but even if they traited and used foods that extended duration to 70 percent their bleeds tick as many times as a DB bleed with no condition duration at all against said warrior. DB will lay down more bleed damage overall

Using d/d in a condition build is not about just spamming D/b and remaining in range. One uses it at the opportune moments then switches to the a/a chain and dodges or stealths out. One uses it to lay down the bleeds then flips to p/d for a torment and withdraw.

(I am speaking from the viewpoint of WvW btw. I do not do pvp)

babazhook.6805:

(I am speaking from the viewpoint of WvW btw. I do not do pvp)

No good player would allow themselves to be killed by condi d/d thief. Death blossom is too underpowered to be any threat to anybody but mobs. Pistol/dagger is way better, because the bleeds are easy to apply from range, plus you have torment.

If you want to have a good condi build, you need to have multilple easy ways to apply conditions. They need to be short duration and on short cooldowns. It’s better to apply 3x 3 sec bleed than 1x 10 sec, because the second option is too easy to cleanse.

The curent condi cleanse system is bad, because it harshly punishes single damaging condi users like thief while promoting mindless spam of random condis, but that’s another topic.

>>No good player would allow themselves to be killed by condi d/d thief. Death blossom is too underpowered to be any threat to anybody but mobs. Pistol/dagger is way better, because the bleeds are easy to apply from range, plus you have torment.

You obviously did not bother to read the post. You keep repeating the same straw man over and over again.

No condition thief relies on one condition. I stated several times there multiple ways to apply conditions. It might not be as easy as just clicking the Autoattack or 3 over and over again but there no need to do that.

DB applies 10 second bleeds.

DB does NOT apply 1 10 second bleed.

DB applies 3 10 second bleeds. P/d users have to eat condition duration foods and a d/d user using for bleeds does not. I can DB once and the person has 3 ten second stacks in that one attack. If he cleanses I attack again with db and put on three ten second stacks. If he cleanses I attack again with db and put on three 10 second stacks. There is more pressure to clear a 10 second stack then there is a 4 second stack because it will do more damage if not cleansed. You will get more stacks faster .My ini recharges more rapidly then does his condition cleanses and I have other ways of applying damage that do not use INI as I recharge and that also apply conditions.

3 ten second bleeds is more powerful then 3 4 second bleeds and few cleanse conditions in 10 seconds. In 10 seconds I have ini recharged.

If i see an enemy rezzing another I do not use P/d on him to inflict bleeds. He will just shrug it off especially if a warrior with lemongrass. I use deathblossom. There more stacks faster and they hit the person being rezzed as well. It more effective then is a crossbow because it faster and the bleeds last longer. A cleanse interrupts his rez.

If I see an enemy group clustered on the corner of a wall during a siege a quick hit of three d/b into the mob with a retreat and dodge/stealth away will lay down far more pressure on the group then simply standing at range and using p/d. If they all use their cleanses to clear those bleeds then they have less cleanses to deal with the other conditions being laid on them.

a d/d user has access to torment rather easily. D/d works well with P/d in the off hand. D/d AA damage does more direct damage then does that from p/d. The a/a chain of dagger is fast, restores endurance and poison.

The only issue with death blossom is the evade. As a means of inflicting AOE damage and laying down bleeds it far more then just adequate. If you do not wish to use deathblossom to inflict conditions it is your choice. Your style of play might not match another’s but please do not suggest “no one should use it” when many people do use it, use it successfully and a person is asking for advice on condition builds..

1 DB bleed stack does over 3000 bleed plus physical damage plus any venoms you use if not cleansed.

Yeah, if you’re fighting an anti-condition guardian you might have trouble, but that’s hardly common. Most people have 1 condition removal ability. With conditions so easy to apply its hardly ‘useless’.

Not to mention its AOE. meaning if you steal into a group of, lets say, 3 ppl, and trigger the poison and torment venoms, then do db 3 times, you’ll be applying:

1 5s stack of torment to each of 3 enemies for about 405-810 damage (depending on if the enemy is running

2 6s stacks of poison (so 12s) to each of 3 enemies for 2592 damage (plus weakness to all 3)

9 10s stacks of bleeding to each of 3 enemies for about 9720

If the enemies don’t cleanse the total damage possible is 39,366 which you applied in about 5s, and now you can stealth/run away.

Oh yeah, but that’s not optimal play so don’t bother doing it…

The op specifically stated he wants to do this, so stop telling him not to.

@babazhook
I’ve been playing d/d condi build some time ago in various forms and I know how terrible it is. It works quite well against PvE noobs, but against decent players you have almost zero win chance.

Even if you somehow manage to win against somebody good, they quickly learn how to counter it, and it is really easy to counter.

Other condi classes will deal more condi damage than you (burn, confusion), and if you stay in melee range for too long against a power build, you will die (no protection or weakness, low armor and hp pool).

@Anthony
No, most people have more than 1 condition removal, and that’s the problem. There are also jewels like automated response and diamond skin.

>>No, most people have more than 1 condition removal, and that’s the problem. There are also jewels like automated response and diamond skin.

Which is why d/d can be superior for condition damage users. D/d inflicts more upfront raw damage. That 10 percent damage needed before conditions take is taken down far quicker with d/d.

>>I’ve been playing d/d condi build some time ago in various forms and I know how terrible it is. It works quite well against PvE noobs, but against decent players you have almost zero win chance.

No YOU had no chance. Other players make it work. It inconceivable that an attack that inflicts MORE damage and applies more bleeds can somehow only work against “noobs” while those killed by p/d that inflicts less direct damage and bleeds somehow bests only “good players”.

I use both p/d and d/d. I made d/d work in my condition build and it does the majority of my damage.

>>Other condi classes will deal more condi damage than you (burn, confusion), and if you stay in melee range for too long against a power build, you will die (no protection or weakness, low armor and hp pool).

My armor was over 3k with hps over 22k. This is not “low”. In fact I now have less armor and less hps because I did not feel I needed it all. This with 2200 condition damage and 3k attack.

Conditions that other classes can apply can also be applied at range. Signet of spite and confusion do not have to be applied at melee. The P/d thief is just as susceptible.

The condition damage thief using d/d has the same stealth and dodge abilities as a backstab thief and yet has more armor and health yet somehow he can not survive? That not logical. You use the same methods to evade attacks. Dodge still works. Stealth still works. You can lay down a d/b and hide right away if you wish. You can then dodge out of reach if you wish and leave caltrops as you dodge. You can use blinding powder right after a few d/bs. You can switch over to p/d with a hydromancy and then shadowstrike away.

Nothing forces you to stay in melee and swap attacks. Refine your tactics.

What I dislike about p/d is inconsistent stealth access to for bleed stacks – you’re left far too vulnerable if you blow your utilities as an opener. The cloak and dagger / shadow strike combo is risky and costs a 10 initiative. A lot of builds carry 1 long cool down cleanse which will remove all of these conditions and make you go on the defensive for ~ 8/10 secs. Anyone decent with a high health pool is a pain to kill with p/d, it lacks sustained condition damage without sacrificing your own defences.

I play an aggressive condition d/d carrion/rabid build. Constant evades and dodges keep me alive. When you throw weakness into the mix incoming damage is usually pretty low. Generally I only use stealth from shadow refuge for escaping or for the surprise shot immobilize on the shortbow.

“No condition thief relies on one condition” babazhook is right – the best way to kill someone is to bury your bleeds under other conditions. Not a fan of venoms, they seem weak untraited considering their long cooldowns. I use a sigil or torment and runes of perplexity for my extra conditions. One my favourite tactics is a counter burst: interrupt on steal and cause damage, weakness, poison, daze and 5 stacks of confusion – death-blossom – heartseeker (gap closer) -death-blossom – dodge (for the cripple and avoid their counter). I often chuck in devourer venom if fighting another thief. Signet of malice – caltrops – daggerstorm combo is good for group fights.

I tend to find some condition duration hadny – I’m at 70% with food. You might lose damage due to conditions being removed before the full duration, but its all about maintaining pressure to control the fight (force them to blow their cleanse early). The only other builds I regularly struggle with fighting are condition necromancers and 1v1 against full glass d/p thieves.

Rough strategy vs class X:

Necro: Usually a difficult fight for condition builds. Be prepared for your conditions to come back. Target them first in group fight. Make use of stolen fears to go on the offensive.

Guardian: Some pack a lot of cleanses, but a successful burst will kill them pretty quickly due to their small health pool. Make sure aegis is down before stealing. Be wary of their circle of pain; a shortbow comes in handy for using shadow shot to escape. Its possible to dodge/death-blossom inside the circle without hitting the sides – don’t be afraid to try this if you have the upper hand.

Mesmer: Don’t waste initiative on clones unless they’re grouped. Spam heart seeker to stay on the real mesmer, they will usually die quickly if you can pull of a death-blossom burst. Signet of malice, daggerstorm combo can come in handy if the mesmer gets all their clones out.

Warrior: Usually the class I find easiest since they have very telegraphed attacks. Apply constant pressure with alternating death-blossoms and dodges. Have a stun breaker or dodge ready so you can back off when they burst. Counter burst with stun on steal and perplexity runes works well here. Occasionally I come up against hammer / bow bunker builds with scary amounts of condi damage – these need to be treated with care. I would recommend using dagger storm to counter their bow (best elite for condition thief).

Thieves: For backstab thieves you want to pace your dodges. Don’t try to out stealth them unless running away. If you see a miss flash up, turn around and death-blossom. Save your steal and bide your time – your waiting for them to run down their stealth skills / initiative. Dodge/stun break then counter burst if they land their back stab. Once again stun on steal and perplexity runes works well here (especially since it works when your hit with basilisk venom). I tend to treat p/d thieves like mesmers, hound them with heartseeker then death-blossom.

Elemental: They have lots of evades and can pull a chain of condition cleanses, so be prepared for a long fight – make use of opportunities but don’t overextend.

Engineer: If they start laying bombs, dodge through the AoE then death blossom after it detonates and before they lay the next bomb – you might need to hit them with a dancing dagger to ensure they don’t kite you (The best class for fighting while facing the wrong way :-)). Don’t be tempted to tank the bombs / grenades, go ranged if you must. Counter their turret elite with daggerstorm.

Rangers: If you can close on them they will die very quickly – I use a signet of agility for this (6 back to back evades with feline grace). Second to top priority in group fights since it’s a quick kill and one less person kiting you. Some rangers can stack up some nasty bleeds, steal for healing seed to counter.

d/d condition is very viable for PVE,depending on your party, and roaming / small group WVW.

man i cant believe scrubs think building around D/D deathblossom can be effective other than trolling…. o wellz more easy kills for me when i see these scrubs around i guess

I just finished a setup for this on my thief.

Full Dire on Armor and Weapons (Vitality + Toughness + Condition Damage)
Full 6/6 set of Superior Runes of the Afflicted

I have two dagger sets.

The first set has a Superior Sigil of Corruption on one dagger and a Superior Sigil of Bursting on the other. This is to build up 25 stacks of corruption to increase my condition damage.

The second set has a Superior Sigil of Bursting on one dagger and a Superior Sigil of Agony on the other. I switch to this set once i have 25 stacks of corruption built up.

All my accessories, rings, and amulet have +toughness, +vitality, and +condition damage. Each of them has an Exquisite Chrysocola Jewel.

I use Koi Cakes and Master Tuning Crystals as my buffs.

Traits are 30/0/20/0/20 (IV, VII, and XII in Deadly Arts) (III and IX in Shadow Arts) and (II and III in Trickery)

Healing skill is Skelk Venom. Utilities are Skale Venom, Spider Venom, and Blinding Powder. Elite is Basilisk Venom.

With all this combined, your poison lasts an extremely long time, bleeds last a really long time, and your condition damage is absolutely through the roof. Additionally, you have loads of toughness and vitality, meaning your survivability is above-par.

I tend to use Skelk Venom at around half health. This plus a few Death Blossoms gets me back up to full health easily.

Most of the time I just spam Death Blossom to get as many stacks of bleed up on the target as quickly as possible. If Spider Venom is on cooldown, I’ll autoattack to get poison on the target.

When things get sticky, I’ll pop Blinding Powder. This will give me regeneration and 4 seconds of stealth. It’s enough time to get away to recover.

The rest you can learn from just playing the build yourself.