Guild Wars 2

I know you thieves will probably all punt a puppy when I say Condition thief is just Way crazy strong and probably needs to be toned down but I have to say it: Condition thief is CRAZY strong!!!

I mostly roam on my engi and tend to only have troubles fighting Dire Condi Thief/Mes…like never have ever beaten one 1×1. I finally had to grab my own thief and followed the “Immortal Condi Thief” build. Yup easily destroyed people without hardly trying! (Only person to beat me 1v1 was a stealthy backstab thief…I claim no fame to thief play) But seriously the amount of survivability/stealth/regen/condi cleanse/mobility and hitting 2000Condi dmg (higher than my engi even) and I could out cleanse Necros since stealth clears conditions so just CnD until they don’t have much left. And this build allows for your own Condi burst every 4secs. The Dire Condi thief is just plane Crazy OP! You can easily sit in an enemy group and pick them off especially having the #2 skill so not even Nike Warriors can get away…

The point of the post is How do you recommend fighting one?!?! After playing mine for two days my conclusion is you just can’t unless you are a thief yourself or maybe a Diamond skin ele (maybe)?

Why would I punt and or kill a puppy for you saying condi thieves are really strong? It’s the truth, no puppies harmed, sheesh we’re thieves not satanic ritualists…

Alright so all puppies safely aside and the Powerful synergy of Dire Stealth Thief understood as being super powerful…how might you recommend taking them down? I recently had some trouble with a Meditation Guardian…(never really happened before) but he had lemongrass food on so my guess is he was fully geared to counter conditions.

So I suppose I will finally come to my final conclusion:

Dire Condi Thief is Crazy Strong!
Countering it is just having the Counter Condition Meta
Or run the kitten away if possible

Its definitely fun to play and can absolutely reck people but its not much of a challenge unless the opponent has tons of cleansing or you are outnumbered. Happy to hear of any more input for strategies against them.

- Using full dire I couldn´t beat eles with diamond skin. With thieves guild, mug, cnd and sneak attack I brought them under 90% but they just switched to water and healed.
- Most p/d thieves rely on cnd for stealth. It has a 1/2 s cast time and a quite obvious animation which makes it easy to dodge. Even with steal precasted cnds can be dodged.

I could out cleanse Necros since stealth clears conditions so just CnD until they don’t have much left.

- This is not always going to work. I know that cnd gives 4 s stealth. If the thief was low on health he is most likely to wait the full time to either attack or cnd again. Just count and dodge. Or if you are playing a x/d thief cnd on them.
- Reflects are also a good counter especially if the thief just spams sneak attack without thinking what the enemy does.
- Classes I have trouble against are mostly eles and engies. Most eles I fought lately could easily outheal and outcleanse my attacks. While their attacks weren´t hitting so hard the fight becomes very tedious and it is more likely that one makes mistakes.
Condi engies with grenades and bombs are probably the enemy I have most problems with. They are applying too many conditions for me to just cleanse via shadows embrace and using cnd on them is difficult thanks to their many aoe attacks.
Also a well played d/p thief. It should also be possible to build a warrior that is practically immortal against a p/d thief but I´m not sure if he could kill you so it doesn´t really count.

You can easily sit in an enemy group and pick them off especially having the #2 skill so not even Nike Warriors can get away…

Most warriors I meet that I have trouble to follow are using either sword or greatsword. In combination with mobile strikes body shot becomes useless against them.

Turamarth.3248:

- Using full dire I couldn´t beat eles with diamond skin. With thieves guild, mug, cnd and sneak attack I brought them under 90% but they just switched to water and healed.
- Most p/d thieves rely on cnd for stealth. It has a 1/2 s cast time and a quite obvious animation which makes it easy to dodge. Even with steal precasted cnds can be dodged.

I could out cleanse Necros since stealth clears conditions so just CnD until they don’t have much left.

- This is not always going to work. I know that cnd gives 4 s stealth. If the thief was low on health he is most likely to wait the full time to either attack or cnd again. Just count and dodge. Or if you are playing a x/d thief cnd on them.
- Reflects are also a good counter especially if the thief just spams sneak attack without thinking what the enemy does.
- Classes I have trouble against are mostly eles and engies. Most eles I fought lately could easily outheal and outcleanse my attacks. While their attacks weren´t hitting so hard the fight becomes very tedious and it is more likely that one makes mistakes.
Condi engies with grenades and bombs are probably the enemy I have most problems with. They are applying too many conditions for me to just cleanse via shadows embrace and using cnd on them is difficult thanks to their many aoe attacks.
Also a well played d/p thief. It should also be possible to build a warrior that is practically immortal against a p/d thief but I´m not sure if he could kill you so it doesn´t really count.

You can easily sit in an enemy group and pick them off especially having the #2 skill so not even Nike Warriors can get away…

Most warriors I meet that I have trouble to follow are using either sword or greatsword. In combination with mobile strikes body shot becomes useless against them.

I was hoping someone would comment about Diamond Skin. I felt it was pretty strong against the full Dire builds but Celestial type builds could probably still be pretty powerful against them maybe. that is interesting about the Engi Nade/bomb. I have a hard time liking Nades but I could see them being nice under these circumstances. Nade/bomb builds (well most engi builds) lack in condi removal though. So it would be risky but I will have to give it a shot. Thanks for the input!

You come here with a rant that starts with an insult and expect positive feedback?
And no, just editing the post does not cut it. Be nice if you want to be treated nice.

Yes, P/D condition Thief is the pinnacle of the low-risk/high reward associated with condition play-style and part of the reason it has received so much criticism. And it still remains a major balance problem.

Thankfully D/P is probably one of the few counters to the build. Constant Blind spam is the only effective tool for denying P/D Thieves a Cloak and Daggger and thus denying all the benefits that come with it (Regeneration, Condition removal, Sneak Attack etc.).

At least it has been a while since I lost to a P/D Thief.

frans.8092:

You come here with a rant that starts with an insult and expect positive feedback?
And no, just editing the post does not cut it. Be nice if you want to be treated nice.

Alright I’ll give you that one. I came off a lot more negative than I had meant to (was trying to get a chunkle) but it was bad humor. I recognized that and altered it. So I apologize for that. But just responding “reported” on the thread is not helpful to the situation though.

Thank you for your feedback though it may not have been topic related it was a good reminder.

Dee Jay.2460:

Yes, P/D condition Thief is the pinnacle of the low-risk/high reward associated with condition play-style and part of the reason it has received so much criticism. And it still remains a major balance problem.

Thankfully D/P is probably one of the few counters to the build. Constant Blind spam is the only effective tool for denying P/D Thieves a Cloak and Daggger and thus denying all the benefits that come with it (Regeneration, Condition removal, Sneak Attack etc.).

At least it has been a while since I lost to a P/D Thief.

Yeah I totally agree with you. I only died to a P/D thief and really struggled against the meditation GS S/f Guardian. Both of them were spamming me with blinds! That is a really great point that can be utilized!

Thank you!

I actually have to modify what my build is…It is a combo of Celestial and Rabid gear (exotic). Just a bunch of stuff I through together while crafting since Dire was too expensive. So if I was running the build properly I would have a lot more vitality and a bit more condition dmg. than I initially thought. Still survive really well though.

Thank you.

Talk about fairness or risk/reward is pointless, you play to win, and so do they.

Dire P/D isn’t that strong, it’s damage potential is basically tied to it’s ability to keep 5-10 bleed stacks on the target, while having very good sustain against both damage and condition. The bleeds are covered by an array of other conditions, poison, vulnerability, torment.

5-10 bleed stacks represents 800-1600 HP/Sec (and don’t give me no fairy tales about 200 hp bleed ticks please, you’d need >3k condition damage), it will not burst you down in 10 seconds, but eventually it will kill if you have no means to remove it, or (dramatically) reduce condition duration, or at least bleed duration. Judging from the general condition-QQ I’d assume people would be running the -40% duration food, which should cover about half of the threat.

P/D durability relies on getting C&D to hit, denying them their stealth will kill them, or drive them off. Use blinds, blocks, knock-back, against C&D, or chill/cripple and kiting to throw them off their timing, whatever you have in your kitten nal to deny them stealth from C&D, if they use C&D on the wildlife, you can use the same wildlife, any trees and other obstacles to block (part of) their Sneak Attack.

Btw, Celestial + Rabid is fine, Sneak Attack scales quite well on Power based damage, C&D can hit quite hard – and you’ll be able to break Diamond Skin with ease. You’d also have enough crit chance to run on-crit sigils for even more effects (or Might, boosts power and condition damage)

I played a P/d thief for some time and started one long before it became the flavor of the day. Over that period I noted people adapting to it and had to adapt in kind.

Diamond skin saw me to drift more towards a hybrid model. More cleanses , saw me increasing the duration of my conditions as this would allow me to get on more total stacks before they did that cleanse (Vital shot and sneak attack both have low duration bleeds).

In my case, the enemy I had the greatest trouble with was the stealth using thief. P/d only works well as long as you can keep applying conditions and building those stacks. When the enemy stealths it much harder to build those stacks or get the cover conditions on making the stacks you did manage to apply vulnerable to a quick cleanse.

Blind spams another issue and you have to focus on staying out of range of the attacks that apply it which can be easier said then done at times.

I play a P/D condition stealth build as well (20606 or 30506, depending if I want heal on stealth). Is it better to use Dire or Celestial gears?

Thanks!

but I have to say it: Condition thief is CRAZY strong!!!

Nope. Not going to disagree. Completely agree. It’s so ridiculously simple that I refuse to play it at all. Sadly, I didn’t realize that until I crafted a full set of dire.

The whole build should be burned at the stake.

lately ppl find builds and play style which can handle the p/d build
guardian – use blocks (3 of them) blind (2-3 of them) which can break the cnd rotation
ele – use diamond and fast heal, some aoe ,cc chill
engi – use massive aoe while bursting conditions
warrior – can out heal you and mobility with some stun etc
necro – use aoe, fear, cc
thief – d/p can kill you if play right and patiently
mesmer and ranger have the most trouble with p/d

so as you can see player who knows how to time their skill right can counter the pd rotations and win

If mesmer and ranger manage their pets and clones better they shouldn’t have to much trouble. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY8Y7pvQQuA In the first fight I deal with a condi pd thief while on my mesmer in SoloQ. Mesmer clones in not always a weakness they can be use strategically.

Mesmers can use clones as human shields negating alot of the damage from sneak attack. They can also shatter their clones at the right times breaking thiefs cnd rotation. If they wanna take it even further they can slot arcane thievery and send a thief condi back on him. Also its pretty easy to dodge up to half of sneak attack if you dodge as soon as you hear it.

Meh so many ways to counter pd thief I usually don’t like giving advice that may make roaming harder for me.

messiah.1908:

ele – use diamond and fast heal, some aoe ,cc chill

This is why I like to slot carrion gear. Better DPS, and diamond skill eles are much more easily dealt with. You do miss out on some toughness, but you’ll kill them faster and just have to avoid being hit like normal.

People are running S/D 2/0/0/6/6 thief, which one would you say is stronger?

Koroshi’s immortal condi thief or S/D one?

MrSimpleMan.6194:

People are running S/D 2/0/0/6/6 thief, which one would you say is stronger?

Koroshi’s immortal condi thief or S/D one?

I think they can each serve different roles, so it might depend on the game mode, group comp, &c. For instance, an s/d thief might work better as a node assaulter and roamer in sPvP since it will generally have more mobility and evasion options.

In terms of a straight up fight, I’d probably say the p/d condi thief would be the stronger option, although it doesn’t mean it would be superior in all matchups. Although it would also depend if consumables are used or not. Koi cakes add a lot of value to such condi builds, so taking that away does make them less effective overall.

MrSimpleMan.6194:

People are running S/D 2/0/0/6/6 thief, which one would you say is stronger?

Koroshi’s immortal condi thief or S/D one?

The 2/0/0/6/6 s/d build is for spvp. Koroshis build is for WvW. Since koroshis build heavily utilizes stealth to survive its horrible for spvp, because stealth decaps points

Yamsandjams.3267:

messiah.1908:

ele – use diamond and fast heal, some aoe ,cc chill

This is why I like to slot carrion gear. Better DPS, and diamond skill eles are much more easily dealt with. You do miss out on some toughness, but you’ll kill them faster and just have to avoid being hit like normal.

you dont really have to.

if you roam 1v1 or 1v2 go full venom the ele will drop fast t0 20% hp with 10 stacks of might so you get same power as carrion gear

check my post chilli con carne (first clip against d/d diamond ele)

s/d as for standard… problems with p/d thieves? Well. they probably won’t die if they plan on staying in stealth and doing nothing.. but that requires them hitting c/d of course. Deny them that, time your Dagger Storm just asthey unleash their sneak attack… If anything S/D should be called unkillable(for as long as you don’t screw up of course), not that little stealthy condi thief.

messiah.1908:

Yamsandjams.3267:

messiah.1908:

ele – use diamond and fast heal, some aoe ,cc chill

This is why I like to slot carrion gear. Better DPS, and diamond skill eles are much more easily dealt with. You do miss out on some toughness, but you’ll kill them faster and just have to avoid being hit like normal.

you dont really have to.

if you roam 1v1 or 1v2 go full venom the ele will drop fast t0 20% hp with 10 stacks of might so you get same power as carrion gear

check my post chilli con carne (first clip against d/d diamond ele)

Are you advising popping your venoms for engaging on a diamond skin ele? Because that seems a bit counterproductive.

The only con to my Thief build in my opinion is lack of stun break.