Guild Wars 2

Which one is generally better both in PvE and PvP?
I’m level 70, planing to craft my way up to level 80 today and I’m not quite sure whether I should go full Berserker glass cannon or spec in Conditions.

Currently, I feel extremely weak with D/P build in WvW, I can barely inflict any damage – killing guard takes ages, however I do like running with my Shortbow.

PVE

damage thief can kill 1 mob 2x faster than condition thief.

condi thief can kill 10 mobs 10x faster than dmg thief (if dmg thief even can kill 10)

condi thief wont die. dmg thief might die.

PVP/WVW

dmg thief is fun to play and hits hard.

condi thief on average has same or more DPS but not as fun bc its generally using only 2 or 3 facets instead of 4-5.

condi thief is more usefull in wvw/spvp bc it has more defense and armor ignoring offense and more heals on quicker demand.

so now you have to figure out which style you like and go for it. if u need help runnign d/p or p/d i have a few great builds . ive been thieving since late november.

cof path 1 doesn’t like the condition thief
and not any zerker parties will take a condi build
eg. don’t go AC path 1 or 3 with a condi char, you will only pull down the party
speed run parties are not consisted of condi builds

DanH.5879:

cof path 1 doesn’t like the condition thief
and not any zerker parties will take a condi build
eg. don’t go AC path 1 or 3 with a condi char, you will only pull down the party
speed run parties are not consisted of condi builds

hes right here. about 40% of the parties that do dungeons runs do speed runs which mean full zerk. about 1/3rd of those 40% are hardcore (they check gear and are very specific). so the 60%+ you can run whatever you want. dungeons arent hard and you can get away with anything. condi builds are constant dmg against bosses and really easy to stay alive. it depends on what kind of group you are in / want to run. so basically if you ONLY wanna do SPEED runs in dungeon than that is the ONLY area you HAVE to have a full zerk build. ONLY..

Direct damage is superior in nearly everything. Skill floor is lower for condition builds imo. If you think d/p has low damage you’ll absolutely hate condi thieves. D/P+SB with proper gear and traits puts out huge damage. Don’t go full zerker though… valk armor and berserker jewelry is a pretty good split. Tanky guardians are hard for everyone to take down though… just a fact of life.

Be careful about taking the first piece of advice you get here… there’s a lot of questionable stuff going around these forums. Hope this helps.

Hype.8032:

Direct damage is superior in nearly everything. Skill floor is lower for condition builds imo. If you think d/p has low damage you’ll absolutely hate condi thieves. D/P+SB with proper gear and traits puts out huge damage. Don’t go full zerker though… valk armor and berserker jewelry is a pretty good split. Tanky guardians are hard for everyone to take down though… just a fact of life.

Be careful about taking the first piece of advice you get here… there’s a lot of questionable stuff going around these forums. Hope this helps.

Well you also have to take the same advice for d/p players too. i mean i mastered d/p myself then moved to p/d as its overall much better. the skill floor SEEMs lower but in reality its roughly the same. so by the standard you said (me) a p/d player shouldnt be able to beat d/p most of the time right? well i do :P. d/p and zerker ISH style builds have a few REALLY big problems, AOE and CC mostly. p/d not so much. also the DPS is the same. d/p hits higher dps on low defense players and p/d condi hits more dps on higher toughness/defensive players. they really balance out especially if they are talented opponents. this is where the advantage is…… armor ignoring dmg and a better overall defense. im not talking about hiding bc i only sit in stealth for 1.5 -2 seconds max during a duel :P theres no need. anyway if you are looking for a build….first you must find your style. i enjoy backstabbing build as far as fun goes… but i run p/d when im serious ….so find what suits you or find/state a goal. you have to do either of those before you make a move in either direction.

Travlane.5948:

Hype.8032:

Direct damage is superior in nearly everything. Skill floor is lower for condition builds imo. If you think d/p has low damage you’ll absolutely hate condi thieves. D/P+SB with proper gear and traits puts out huge damage. Don’t go full zerker though… valk armor and berserker jewelry is a pretty good split. Tanky guardians are hard for everyone to take down though… just a fact of life.

Be careful about taking the first piece of advice you get here… there’s a lot of questionable stuff going around these forums. Hope this helps.

Well you also have to take the same advice for d/p players too. i mean i mastered d/p myself then moved to p/d as its overall much better. the skill floor SEEMs lower but in reality its roughly the same. so by the standard you said (me) a p/d player shouldnt be able to beat d/p most of the time right? well i do :P. d/p and zerker ISH style builds have a few REALLY big problems, AOE and CC mostly. p/d not so much. also the DPS is the same. d/p hits higher dps on low defense players and p/d condi hits more dps on higher toughness/defensive players. they really balance out especially if they are talented opponents. this is where the advantage is…… armor ignoring dmg and a better overall defense. im not talking about hiding bc i only sit in stealth for 1.5 -2 seconds max during a duel :P theres no need. anyway if you are looking for a build….first you must find your style. i enjoy backstabbing build as far as fun goes… but i run p/d when im serious ….so find what suits you or find/state a goal. you have to do either of those before you make a move in either direction.

I wasn’t referring to you specifically but since you made it about you, I don’t agree with your advice. The OP will be more helpful in a zerg with shortbow and better in small skirmishes with d/p.

P/D is known as a troll build. It’s hard to kill even with a lot of people, but at the same time it won’t be killing any one in the group… so it just trolls them. That build has no burst and it is easily cleansed. Anyone who wants to just run away can typically do so. It is a good 1v1 build when the opponent needs to stick around but how often does that happen in WvW?

I like the play behind p/d (I played it for several months when I didn’t know as much) but it needs more buffs to be a serious build. Does anyone know of a serious Tpvp team with a p/d or d/d death blossom thief on it? I don’t personally know of any.

So in summary, I believe direct damage builds to be far superior for everything the OP wants. It takes longer to get the hang of it since you don’t have as much vitality but it’s worth the time to figure it out. I have direct damage and carrion gear sets but the carrion one is just collecting dust. The only reason I hold on to it is in hope anet buffs condi thief at some point.

Thanks for the replies – So full Zerker gear – all ring / accessories ?

Nick.6972:

Thanks for the replies – So full Zerker gear – all ring / accessories ?

Get enough valk/soldier to have something like 2500 armor and 15k hp. There’s a pretty big +/- from those values based on personal preference though. You can still have over 100% crit damage and a crit chance just below 50% w/o food buffs.

There aren’t any valkyrie ascended items so get the vitality you need on your armor and weapons.

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

Travlane.5948:

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

I think we both agree that both versions can be played and a player can excel using either. Condi thief is far from garbage but I want it to have more condi burst like engineers and necros.

I agree with your advice in this post though. P/D is much better in WvW than dungeons. A lot of the dps is wasted if there is another condition build in the group.

Who was it that made a thread several weeks/months ago trying to figure out the optimal gear for a balanced thief? I liked/agreed the end result but I was too cheap to re-gear for a minor gain. Was it Wish?

Edit: Found it – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/first#post2196794

Hype.8032:

Travlane.5948:

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

I think we both agree that both versions can be played and a player can excel using either. Condi thief is far from garbage but I want it to have more condi burst like engineers and necros.

I agree with your advice in this post though. P/D is much better in WvW than dungeons. A lot of the dps is wasted if there is another condition build in the group.

Who was it that made a thread several weeks/months ago trying to figure out the optimal gear for a balanced thief? I liked/agreed the end result but I was too cheap to re-gear for a minor gain. Was it Wish?

Edit: Found it – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/first#post2196794

i think anet is afraid to play with fire (excuse the pun). they wont give thieves fire … :P i think they are afraid we would have a hyrbrid buidl too strong or something. without a more steady mix of conditions….we will never have more than bleed burst.

Travlane.5948:

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

Please define why P/D is a “troll” build. Feel free to detail what the “generic” troll build is versus any “good” version that is actually “much superior”.

xmtrcv.5236:

Travlane.5948:

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

Please define why P/D is a “troll” build. Feel free to detail what the “generic” troll build is versus any “good” version that is actually “much superior”.

I think it is NOT a troll build. quite the contrary. i guess you COULD troll with it. but def a very deadly build.

PVE = sword/pistol and dagger/dagger melee damage builds depending on how many mobs youre fighting.

People say silly things about condition damage being awesome, but you shouldnt believe them. S/P with a bit into acrobatics lets you drop smoke fields 24/7 and stand in them taking 0 damage while you beat everything down in full berserker gear not caring about dodging or healing yourself like a boss.

wish.1027:

PVE = sword/pistol and dagger/dagger melee damage builds depending on how many mobs youre fighting.

People say silly things about condition damage being awesome, but you shouldnt believe them. S/P with a bit into acrobatics lets you drop smoke fields 24/7 and stand in them taking 0 damage while you beat everything down in full berserker gear not caring about dodging or healing yourself like a boss.

he has a point here but thats a zerkish build and still has the ability to die. even with smoke fields u cant take on 10+ at the same time. but even so unless ur in orr area that wont be happening.

Travlane.5948:

xmtrcv.5236:

Travlane.5948:

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

Please define why P/D is a “troll” build. Feel free to detail what the “generic” troll build is versus any “good” version that is actually “much superior”.

I think it is NOT a troll build. quite the contrary. i guess you COULD troll with it. but def a very deadly build.

My mistake, I thought you were calling it a troll build, which would have been ironic as I know you have used it before (against me also, along with D/D). xD

I am still curious as to what differentiates the generic version from any good/much superior version?

generic version runs points in acrobatics and Power lines. :P

Alright.
So, just got level 80.
Bought 4 Berserker and 2 Knight Armor Pieces. + Have 1 Ascended Berserker Ring.

What Runes should I get? Accessories – 3 Berserker and 1 Valkyrie ?

Nick.6972:

Alright.
So, just got level 80.
Bought 4 Berserker and 2 Knight Armor Pieces. + Have 1 Ascended Berserker Ring.

What Runes should I get? Accessories – 3 Berserker and 1 Valkyrie ?

Knights is bad, use Soldiers+Berserker. If youre interested in why, click that link on the word thief in my sig, then review the builds posted and the 3 threads linked there.

Yeah, mistake, I eant Soldier ( 2 Soldier 4 Berserker)

The thing is – I want the most damage, but I also don’t want to die when I get hit once or few times.

I think divinity runes are the best. If they are too expensive you can mix in ruby orbs or the valkyrie orb equivalent if you need more health. Runes of the wurm are another option. It all depends on the gear you have and the traits you picked. 10/30/0/0/30 needs different gear than 0/30/20/20/0 to be optimal.

My personal preference is 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/10/0 for dagger/dagger and the 2 distributions from the first paragraph for dagger/pistol. In my experience d/d is better at winning outnumbered fights while d/p is better against the rare competent wvw opponent :P Both can escape bad situations but d/d has a better chance of getting some stomps in that case. I’ve ran a lot of both but in the end I prefer d/p.

One way to keep damage and some survivability is to trait into Hidden Killer. That way you can keep good vitality/toughness (at the expense of having lower crit chance) and still have huge (huge meaning 5-7k) backstabs.

The big 10k+ backstabs are possible but it’s with absolute glass builds (using all cooldowns to buff your damage) against other glass builds. Having good sustained damage with ~7k burst on call is a better option I think.

I have played thief in and after beta almost exclusively until now and with upcomming changes to magic find have been wondering the same thing. should i reroll crit or condi.
heres some wisdom i have endured to obtain:

Weapon: Opinion, Survivability, Damage, Utility & Synergy, Bonuses

in the eyes of Spvp/WvW:
P/D: very fun, very survivable(teleports/stealth), low condi, no crit, good synergy
P/P: fun, not survivable, no condi, ok crit, no synergy (needs some DEV love), empties initiative
D/P: fun, survivable(stealth), no condi, good crit, excellent utility & synergy
D/D: kinda fun, survivable(evades), best condi damage(which is low), ok crit, low synergy
S/P: fun, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: meh, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, ok utility & synergy, boon stripping
SB: fun, survivable(evades), good condi, good crit, good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

in the eyes of PvE:
P/D: survivable(teleports/stealth), lacking all damage, ok utility & synergy
P/P: survivable(blind), lacking all damage, very low utility & synergy, empties initiative
D/P: survivable(blind/stealth), good crit/no condi, lesser pve utility
D/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit/best-ok condi(aoe), ok utility & synergy
S/P: very survivable(evades/blind), good crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, npc’s dont need boon stripped
SB: survivable(evades), good all damage(aoe), good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

Survivability is exceptionally important to keep in mind when playing thief. Know what weapons have access to and will limit you to. A direct hit in pve will kill a glass cannon, even more so in pvp.

jkough.7316:

I have played thief in and after beta almost exclusively until now and with upcomming changes to magic find have been wondering the same thing. should i reroll crit or condi.
heres some wisdom i have endured to obtain:

Weapon: Opinion, Survivability, Damage, Utility & Synergy, Bonuses

in the eyes of Spvp/WvW:
P/D: very fun, very survivable(teleports/stealth), low condi, no crit, good synergy
P/P: fun, not survivable, no condi, ok crit, no synergy (needs some DEV love), empties initiative
D/P: fun, survivable(stealth), no condi, good crit, excellent utility & synergy
D/D: kinda fun, survivable(evades), best condi damage(which is low), ok crit, low synergy
S/P: fun, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: meh, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, ok utility & synergy, boon stripping
SB: fun, survivable(evades), good condi, good crit, good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

in the eyes of PvE:
P/D: survivable(teleports/stealth), lacking all damage, ok utility & synergy
P/P: survivable(blind), lacking all damage, very low utility & synergy, empties initiative
D/P: survivable(blind/stealth), good crit/no condi, lesser pve utility
D/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit/best-ok condi(aoe), ok utility & synergy
S/P: very survivable(evades/blind), good crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, npc’s dont need boon stripped
SB: survivable(evades), good all damage(aoe), good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

Survivability is exceptionally important to keep in mind when playing thief. Know what weapons have access to and will limit you to. A direct hit in pve will kill a glass cannon, even more so in pvp.

Good contribution. I think using shortbow as a secondary increasing survivability of all builds by a whole lot. S/D can be a bit more boring but I feel like I’m finally getting good at it and it’s really satisfying feeling strong with it.

jkough.7316:

I have played thief in and after beta almost exclusively until now and with upcomming changes to magic find have been wondering the same thing. should i reroll crit or condi.
heres some wisdom i have endured to obtain:

Weapon: Opinion, Survivability, Damage, Utility & Synergy, Bonuses

in the eyes of Spvp/WvW:
P/D: very fun, very survivable(teleports/stealth), low condi, no crit, good synergy
P/P: fun, not survivable, no condi, ok crit, no synergy (needs some DEV love), empties initiative
D/P: fun, survivable(stealth), no condi, good crit, excellent utility & synergy
D/D: kinda fun, survivable(evades), best condi damage(which is low), ok crit, low synergy
S/P: fun, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: meh, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, ok utility & synergy, boon stripping
SB: fun, survivable(evades), good condi, good crit, good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

in the eyes of PvE:
P/D: survivable(teleports/stealth), lacking all damage, ok utility & synergy
P/P: survivable(blind), lacking all damage, very low utility & synergy, empties initiative
D/P: survivable(blind/stealth), good crit/no condi, lesser pve utility
D/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit/best-ok condi(aoe), ok utility & synergy
S/P: very survivable(evades/blind), good crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, npc’s dont need boon stripped
SB: survivable(evades), good all damage(aoe), good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

Survivability is exceptionally important to keep in mind when playing thief. Know what weapons have access to and will limit you to. A direct hit in pve will kill a glass cannon, even more so in pvp.

few of these are off :P if i may add:

d/d LOW DEFENSE and high crit
p/d high condition dmg (bleeds and poison and torment)
s/p low to medium survivability (depends on BPS usage)