Guild Wars 2

What if Feline Grace was changed to provide a small amount of endurance on hit? This would reward more aggressive play styles and possibly synergize with lesser used weapon sets like P/P or S/P.

This would have little or no cooldown to work properly. I’m hoping this would allow more builds to take Arobatics. Right now the Vigor dependency limits the usefulness of Acrobatics to certain thief builds.

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

Just curious, buy why do you think that? They did make a clear delineation between offensive and defensive lines (no more might on dodge/stealth or fluid strikes) but it seems like they could leave some utility attached to crit to make sure we don’t end up in defensive gear with decent endurance regeneration. Remember when double shortbow quick pockets was so powerful it warranted nerfing SB? I doubt that we’d get more defense without somehow tying it to offense.

Maugetarr.6823:

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

Just curious, buy why do you think that? They did make a clear delineation between offensive and defensive lines (no more might on dodge/stealth or fluid strikes) but it seems like they could leave some utility attached to crit to make sure we don’t end up in defensive gear with decent endurance regeneration. Remember when double shortbow quick pockets was so powerful it warranted nerfing SB? I doubt that we’d get more defense without somehow tying it to offense.

I think the issue is on crit effects on thief just don’t set us apart in any way. By this I mean we are always the heavy bursting guys with many critical hits and trying to build away from that is very limiting already.

Our defensive trait lines need help, and restricting any part of that to an offensive set up isn’t going to help us get any better build diversity.

NinjaEd.3946:

Maugetarr.6823:

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

Just curious, buy why do you think that? They did make a clear delineation between offensive and defensive lines (no more might on dodge/stealth or fluid strikes) but it seems like they could leave some utility attached to crit to make sure we don’t end up in defensive gear with decent endurance regeneration. Remember when double shortbow quick pockets was so powerful it warranted nerfing SB? I doubt that we’d get more defense without somehow tying it to offense.

I think the issue is on crit effects on thief just don’t set us apart in any way. By this I mean we are always the heavy bursting guys with many critical hits and trying to build away from that is very limiting already.

Our defensive trait lines need help, and restricting any part of that to an offensive set up isn’t going to help us get any better build diversity.

I think that’s a valid point, but so far they seem resistant to give thief flat out defense without attacking. While “on crit” effects aren’t unique, I think it’s really the only way they could implement it in a way they consider balanced. On crit gives them the assurance that you aren’t going to go cleric thief and just tank on a point indefinitely with high endurance regen.

Flat out endurance regen on crit though would at least be partially unique as it would stack with vigor as opposed to the high or perma vigor (or equivalent) of other classes. I don’t get how they think that FG is competitive when you have

Renewing Stamina
Critical Infusion
Adrenal Implant
Signet of Stamina
and Vigorous Precision exist.

Most of those are 50-100% vigor (or effective vigor) uptime with no “skillful evasion” required. Maybe if Endless Stamina increased the base endurance regen and then stacked with vigor (so 5×1.5(ES)=7.5 or 5×1.5(ES)×1.5(V)=11.25 instead of 5+5×0.5(V)×1.5(ES)=8.75), we’d have something with a unique edge that fits us. I’d even take that if they made it a major trait.

Edit: If they did that I’d like to see more “successful dodge” traits too.

Maugetarr.6823:

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

Just curious, buy why do you think that? They did make a clear delineation between offensive and defensive lines (no more might on dodge/stealth or fluid strikes) but it seems like they could leave some utility attached to crit to make sure we don’t end up in defensive gear with decent endurance regeneration. Remember when double shortbow quick pockets was so powerful it warranted nerfing SB? I doubt that we’d get more defense without somehow tying it to offense.

Just looking at our traitlines, the description of the same and where all of our on Crit effects are.

::Critical Strikes is a core specialization for the thief that focuses on use of and benefits from critical hits and signets.

Every one of our on crit effects is in that line. Sundering strikes was moved there from another. I think the intent is to keep them all in that line rather than force the thief to take other traitlines to enhance a Core spec which is Critical hits.

Many of those other classes you list do not have a core spec described as revolving around Critical hits. The on crit effects tend to fall under lines that are more generic in their description.

I really think acro is the line that should give the most mobility , evasion and dodges and on trigger effects should be based on the same. IF one wants to maximize the benefits of an acrobatics build , I think it counterproductive to predicate it on a high crit rate .

Now IF it was an on crit when receiving a crit than it a different matter.

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

Just curious, buy why do you think that? They did make a clear delineation between offensive and defensive lines (no more might on dodge/stealth or fluid strikes) but it seems like they could leave some utility attached to crit to make sure we don’t end up in defensive gear with decent endurance regeneration. Remember when double shortbow quick pockets was so powerful it warranted nerfing SB? I doubt that we’d get more defense without somehow tying it to offense.

Just looking at our traitlines, the description of the same and where all of our on Crit effects are.

::Critical Strikes is a core specialization for the thief that focuses on use of and benefits from critical hits and signets.

Every one of our on crit effects is in that line. Sundering strikes was moved there from another. I think the intent is to keep them all in that line rather than force the thief to take other traitlines to enhance a Core spec which is Critical hits.

Many of those other classes you list do not have a core spec described as revolving around Critical hits. The on crit effects tend to fall under lines that are more generic in their description.

I really think acro is the line that should give the most mobility , evasion and dodges and on trigger effects should be based on the same. IF one wants to maximize the benefits of an acrobatics build , I think it counterproductive to predicate it on a high crit rate .

Now IF it was an on crit when receiving a crit than it a different matter.

That’s a pretty good view on the line. I just dislike traits triggered by outside sources. If we accept that the on crit traits should be limited to CS, I’d really like to see a baseline endurance regen buff in acro with more traits proccing on successful evasion then. The real problem I see is that trickery is doing a better job of vigor uptime with BT than Acro, and ES doesn’t enhance vigor enough to trait into. Acro traits are mainly focused around ameliorating the hits you take now rather than dodging those hits.

untill we ‘ll have trickery right this, i believe acro and SA won t have space
i’d like to see acro boosts survability with dodges and evading frames
and SA boosts our stealth, gaining might (like before), protection ( maybe 2 secs with 5 od ICD) and maybe aegis.. our damage reduction in stealth is 25%.. why can t we have protection ele and guardians have perma protection..
we have to invest one whole specialitazion for 25%.. doesn t have much sense

Sparda.9750:

untill we ‘ll have trickery right this, i believe acro and SA won t have space
i’d like to see acro boosts survability with dodges and evading frames
and SA boosts our stealth, gaining might (like before), protection ( maybe 2 secs with 5 od ICD) and maybe aegis.. our damage reduction in stealth is 25%.. why can t we have protection ele and guardians have perma protection..
we have to invest one whole specialitazion for 25%.. doesn t have much sense

Protection and aegis aren’t fitting for a thief, plus that seems far to similar to Mesmer PU.

SA wouldn’t be so bad if the traits lined up a little better and had a distinguished selection on how to use it rather than having all these traits basically hover on the same spec. As for acro, its mostly underperforming traits partly from the fact that we don’t get boon duration anymore.

Maugetarr.6823:

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

babazhook.6805:

Maugetarr.6823:

Dagger.2035:

I’m thinking it could reward 2-3 endurance per hit with a one second cool down. The cool down is necessary to prevent it from being overpowered when you hit multiple enemies (Cluster Bomb) or equip Air/Fire sigils.

5 endurance per crit 1 sec icd is what I wish they’d do.

I think they want to stay away from ON crit effects on the acro line.

Just curious, buy why do you think that? They did make a clear delineation between offensive and defensive lines (no more might on dodge/stealth or fluid strikes) but it seems like they could leave some utility attached to crit to make sure we don’t end up in defensive gear with decent endurance regeneration. Remember when double shortbow quick pockets was so powerful it warranted nerfing SB? I doubt that we’d get more defense without somehow tying it to offense.

Just looking at our traitlines, the description of the same and where all of our on Crit effects are.

::Critical Strikes is a core specialization for the thief that focuses on use of and benefits from critical hits and signets.

Every one of our on crit effects is in that line. Sundering strikes was moved there from another. I think the intent is to keep them all in that line rather than force the thief to take other traitlines to enhance a Core spec which is Critical hits.

Many of those other classes you list do not have a core spec described as revolving around Critical hits. The on crit effects tend to fall under lines that are more generic in their description.

I really think acro is the line that should give the most mobility , evasion and dodges and on trigger effects should be based on the same. IF one wants to maximize the benefits of an acrobatics build , I think it counterproductive to predicate it on a high crit rate .

Now IF it was an on crit when receiving a crit than it a different matter.

That’s a pretty good view on the line. I just dislike traits triggered by outside sources. If we accept that the on crit traits should be limited to CS, I’d really like to see a baseline endurance regen buff in acro with more traits proccing on successful evasion then. The real problem I see is that trickery is doing a better job of vigor uptime with BT than Acro, and ES doesn’t enhance vigor enough to trait into. Acro traits are mainly focused around ameliorating the hits you take now rather than dodging those hits.

I would not disaagree. Acro has a problem in that at any given choice there is one that almost no matter the weaponset or type (condi/power/hybrid) there only one strong choice. SA is like that to a certain degree as well. The ACRO line is undertuned as far as survival and defenses is concerned given we do not use blocks protection invulns stability and the like.

As example vigrorous recovery was not that bad a choice in the older system as vigor had a better return. Due to endurance return being turned down It does not do what it once did whereas in the current meta with all those conditions Pain response perfroms better.

With less in the way of dodges, more damage overall and all that AOE and other damage sources out there it much harder for a thief to stay at +90 percent health so Hard To Catch becomes that much better then Guarded Initiation and SE is just not enough payback to choose over the stun break and endurance regain of hard to catch.

Now the line is not bad and I use it in a build now, it just that I can not see picking anything other then three of the traits available and think even taking those it undertuned. (A case in point here is swiftness on dodge with no added duration).

I think it can be tuned to something special wherein the person taking this line can rely on constant pressure and evades to “build up” the longer he stays active in battle making it a seperate means of survival from a more passive SA line. Thus things like gaining health the more in battle or more ini to be abe to keep up attacking or the ongoing removal of conditions that affect that mobility.

I really do not like the plethora of passive type skill triggers that are out there (Such as the defy pain trait). We can have some of them but I would like to see more of those enhancements one gets from a trait predicated on the player actively doing something to grant it.

In this way , when comparing to SA we can truly create two types of playstyle, one very active and one much more passive.

I disagree with some that suggest SA should become a “more active” line. There is nothing wrong with a style that is premised arroung waiting for that opportunity to strike and going back to waiting if the time not just right and the SA line can bring us that.

Waiting is one thing, resetting the fight altogether is another. That’s why I completely disagree with the notion of giving SA builds extra damage.

DA/CS/SA would allow for 25 stacks of might with the highest damage modifier in the game at the end with passive damage reduction, healing, and cleansing, plus the obvious benefits of stealth. Or DA/SA/Trick netting the same damage as DA/CS/Trickery signets… without needing signets.

If you want more damage, you should have to work for it or invest into it.

DeceiverX.8361:

Waiting is one thing, resetting the fight altogether is another. That’s why I completely disagree with the notion of giving SA builds extra damage.

DA/CS/SA would allow for 25 stacks of might with the highest damage modifier in the game at the end with passive damage reduction, healing, and cleansing, plus the obvious benefits of stealth. Or DA/SA/Trick netting the same damage as DA/CS/Trickery signets… without needing signets.

If you want more damage, you should have to work for it or invest into it.

A reset of a fight is fine. It not my own style as I have always preferred dodging but all classes can reset to a degree, Medi Guards got heals out the Ying yang. Warriors flee a fight until health regenned through their signet and then return. A Necro can drop into DS for another health pool. When a thief sits in hiding to regain health , his health regen is not magnitudes higher then is that of a warrior on the signet waiting for that thief to appear. A full reset of health using stealth takes more than 4 or 5 seconds and in those seconds the enemy is also healing or seeing skills come off cooldown. I do not see the issue.

Unlike other classes versions of a reset the thief in hiding does zero damage. If it took me forever to get a mediguard to use up his heals and condition cleanses and get his health pool down to where I can fnally drop him the last thing I want to do is “reset from stealth” and allow all of his skills to reset.

As to gaining attack power from stealth I do not see a lot of proposals for it outside might in stealth and we used to have that before as a minor trait. Put that in as a GM replacing the current cloaked in shadows and put blinding baseline to the dagger #5 and a whole lot of people will NOT take it. They would have to give up Rejuv or Venomous Aura and that is not as easy a choice as implied. In fact were it the old version of two stacks of might per stealth many would see it as underpowered for a GM trait.

Further to that someone giving up rejuv for might is not going to be able to enter stealth for health regen. Shadows proetector will not generate a lot so this would have the effect of making such a theif active in combat more.

DeceiverX.8361:

Waiting is one thing, resetting the fight altogether is another. That’s why I completely disagree with the notion of giving SA builds extra damage.

DA/CS/SA would allow for 25 stacks of might with the highest damage modifier in the game at the end with passive damage reduction, healing, and cleansing, plus the obvious benefits of stealth. Or DA/SA/Trick netting the same damage as DA/CS/Trickery signets… without needing signets.

If you want more damage, you should have to work for it or invest into it.

Well you still can’t have the healing and the damage from SA, its one or the other. In any case, maybe a revision like 4 stacks of might on entering stealth and 1 every 3 seconds (10 seconds duration?) That way it promotes entering exiting stealth vs sitting in it?

Either way you can’t really benefit from sitting in stealth anymore than your enemy waits on their cooldowns letting you figure out your next move. I just wish there was a way to buff anything at all without it buffing d/p. That weapon set is a disease for thief.

NinjaEd.3946:

Sparda.9750:

untill we ‘ll have trickery right this, i believe acro and SA won t have space
i’d like to see acro boosts survability with dodges and evading frames
and SA boosts our stealth, gaining might (like before), protection ( maybe 2 secs with 5 od ICD) and maybe aegis.. our damage reduction in stealth is 25%.. why can t we have protection ele and guardians have perma protection..
we have to invest one whole specialitazion for 25%.. doesn t have much sense

Protection and aegis aren’t fitting for a thief, plus that seems far to similar to Mesmer PU.

SA wouldn’t be so bad if the traits lined up a little better and had a distinguished selection on how to use it rather than having all these traits basically hover on the same spec. As for acro, its mostly underperforming traits partly from the fact that we don’t get boon duration anymore.

i said that because in my point of wiev something like PU should be the suit for a thief, not for a mesmer
just think about it.. in the common view, is the assassin (thief) that should spam invisibility and attack from the shadow, not the mesmer ( + 100% stealth duration, while we have + 1 sec stealth duration).. i think that anet has distorted the idea, so, from my view of my favorite profession, protection and aegis fit us like a suit
“nothing suits me like a protection suit”
this is what i thought if i were Barney Stinson

anyway, thief needs some survability skills and traits, and i think it s a matter of fact, no one can doubt about it
yes, the attack is the best defense, still i can t always one shot people, and when i don t, i m deleted from: rampager warrior, shatter mesmer, D/D firing ele, burning guardian and iWIN botton ranger ( btw, after 3 years, rapid shot won t take the target off when u go stealth, and 12k damage in pvp against my marauder build is just ridicolous)…
acro, IMO, is not bad, i mean it’s not very usefull, but it can be improved a little to be competitive.. shadow art, instead, should be impronted in only defensive stats, giving the chance to obtain defensive boon.. 3 secs of aegis and protection should be enough
imo with those 2 boons u can play fine..

i have the impression that i have no windows of errors.. one wrong movement and i am gone, thus, in pvp where u can t always have the chance to stay out of the fight to reset it, with a couple of aoe u are out of games, and i think is not fair, and it s more true just seeing the last nerfs and buffs of survability of the top tier professions
against a good mesmer u can t win.. 25 stacks on vulnerability in 2 seconds, plus 12% damage plus shutter combo and farewell my friend.. a good ele can target u with 7/8 stacks of burn ( and after last buff on burn, u are down), same for guardian.. and plz, remeber the warrior.. one error against him and see above

i hope to have show u my view

Still, thief is not and never was about surviving hits due to boons like protection or aegis. We avoid hits altogether via stealth, mobility, evasion and the few that slip in we either stealth or try to stay on our toes for our small heals to come off cd.

I like the feeling of staying on my toes, what I don’t like is how much effort we have to pump into that rythme when there are professions like Mesmer and warrior that get so many free passes to screw up and still dish out astonishing damage and control. I do agree out survivability needs a bump but that doesn’t come from changing our natural defenses to match that of a boon heavy profession, excluding vigor since that ties to our evasion.

I’m seeing a lot of topics relating to Mesmer, our closest relative profession, that thief should adapt their damage or defenses. I know that Mesmer has taken the throne for hidden bursts for the time being but I really hope people realize what they are asking.

There is no reason to give us invulnerabilities or buff our damage. This insta-gib movement should of been toned down the last patch and it only made things worse, especially for a class forced into the glass cannon role. Thief needs sustain outside of stealth and less heavy damage focused builds. Support via boon stripping/stealing, in combat healing that works (looking at you assassin’s reward and signet of malice…), better options for condition removal, QoL fixes to weapon sets and utilities.

Our damage is plenty as is, especially when I can get a 1,800 aa on shortbow and it bounces and I have 0 might and using only marauders or 11k on pw. Can’t say thief will be fixed anytime soon although I hope it gets some attention, but I rather not see this profession turn to some 1 trick pony any further than it already is. I’m really sick of using the same traits even after this patch but after trying other things, they just don’t really compare.