Convince me to not use str runes
Meh, Ferocity has a low payback. Hoelbrak is an alternative to Strength, but it trades dps for sustain (against condition damage).
I have sustain need more deeps and im at 220% crit dmg? Jst power is 1.8k
Do try to get power to 2100 or over, obv strength runes can do that.
Also pack, scholar, etc.
Str is still best if you build towards might uptime, especially if you also have more than a couple condi’s (like you run p/d or something).
Though I think you’re just going to need to convince yourself ;p
I run pack in wvw cause I like the quality of life improvement. I convinced myself that was better.
In before math wizards.
youtube
I have sustain need more deeps and im at 220% crit dmg? Jst power is 1.8k
Your dps will like more power, less Ferocity. Runes of Strength would be better then Wurm. The +45% basically turns every 2 stacks into 3.
Well, one thing to consider is that strength runes are now one of the most likely candidates for nerfs among the different rune sets. I don’t imagine they’d really change the functionality at all, make just tone the numbers down.
I don’t know why they buffed the damage bonus to +7% in the first place, it was perfectly fine at the +5% it was originally.
I would say that the main disadvantage to using the strength runes is that your damage bonus is dependent on might, but might can more or less be maintained effortlessly so that’s not really a factor.
Do try to get power to 2100 or over, obv strength runes can do that.
Also pack, scholar, etc.
Str is still best if you build towards might uptime, especially if you also have more than a couple condi’s (like you run p/d or something).
Though I think you’re just going to need to convince yourself ;p
I run pack in wvw cause I like the quality of life improvement. I convinced myself that was better.
In before math wizards.
Pack runes all the way.
What are you using it for? PvE? PvP? WvW? And with what build/trait?
I like pack runes for perma-swiftness. Very good for roaming. (S/D build).
I like strength runes for backstab builds. The go-to for burst glass cannons (D/P or D/D).
I don’t see the appeal with wurm runes except that it’s kind of cheap to make. Vitality + Ferocity without any boost in Power or Precision is kind of weak compared to the other runes.
(edited by Tachii.3506)
Go with scholar’s or strength. No reason not to especially if you have reliable might source. Only reason not to get strength is $.
il give build info in a bit
i had the same problem . .
i was in love of traveler when i get them . . . but after the nerf . . . well i start looking for a good replace.
The main thing to me is to lose the 25% movement speed (the best thing you can get from runes IMO) and use a utility slot . . . but for my D/P build that constantly get might stacks strength is the way.
Sadly with the Nerf of Critical Damage, for pure power builds, runes of strength is the only way to compensate the lose.
By the way . . . if Anet nerf them i will quit this game xD . . . i’m really tired that they nerf every single thing THEY made (but warriors of course) and the runes are so kitten expensives.
Peace
im jst afraid to run them vs necros/thieves/mesmers for boon rip and corrupt boon ;/
Imo they need to nerf str runes, as of now they are at the top of the food chain, running full str runs grants perm might with about 15-25 stacks. no other rune set other then maybe holbrek with battle/ might sigils can do this. it just makes all other runes not viable. like wurm, scholars only good if you never get hit, and even ogre. I’m hoping they do nerd them so then we can have more options then being pigeon hole’d in to a runes set jstu because nothing can match it.
(edited by Mystogan.4157)
here is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY8al0Mp3pVOx0J8PNhOBt9tDQB8rJ9Wk4C-T1RBABYp8DP9DLqEsinAAAnEAKV/Rp9HIFATCjA-w
also not 220% its 234% with 2003 power. i have been piping to test out runes tho so thats why i said 1800 and 220 ish crit.
Imo they need to nerf str runes, as of now they are at the top of the food chain, running full str runs grants perm might with about 15-25 stacks. no other rune set other then maybe holbrek with battle/ might sigils can do this. it just makes all other runes not viable. like wurm, scholars only good if you never get hit, and even ogre. I’m hoping they do nerd them so then we can have more options then being pigeon hole’d in to a runes set jstu because nothing can match it.
My build for example. I’m currently using frailty wurm and force. this compared to the standard might stacking str runes battle sig and might sig…. my current ones do about 1k (2k if fully sacked might), so theres really no reason to even run ANY other runes set other then might with str runes… maybe holbrek but thats it
Wurm, all I have to say. Traveler’s got hit way too hard for a standard power build
Vampirism is my favorite rune coupled with Withdraw in PvE, only because Strength will cost me my life for just one rune and I need six.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
vamp mist form screws me every time
vamp mist form screws me every time
I got the opposite result, I love it. When I go into Mist Form, then that’s my cue that I have overstayed my welcome and it’s time to bail.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
superior rune of ogre!
They are expensive!
This is the most common reason I hear of people not using optimal/meta runes.
PS: Don’t let the cost of something stop you from enjoying the best of the best.
and refuses to spare the life in return for the surrender at discretion (unconditional surrender)
of a vanquished opponent.
Imo they need to nerf str runes, as of now they are at the top of the food chain, running full str runs grants perm might with about 15-25 stacks. …
They don’t give might (the #4 isn’t that powerful), they amplify what is already available, thus they might look at that first. You won’t get 25 stack btw, not from thief, but 15 should be not problem.
I’m in the same boat. I was using 5/6/0/3/0 with a mix of gear for 2300+ power, 2500 armor, 50% crit chance, 83% critdamage, armor and 17000 hp. It took 5 sets of armor, 6 rune sets of experiementing to find a fast paced sb and p/p build that I could use in a Zerg or roaming.
The nerf to poison field, centaur runes (bleed down from 45% to 25%), crit damage down to 45% obliterated my build. After experimenting for a while with other weapon sets/runes, I sold most of my collectables to buy str runes. I’ll never have the same results, but I’m not helpless with the build after the patch. I think that if perplexity runes stuck around unchecked for so many months, why wouldn’t Str remain as long?
Now I am also toying around with a fun p/d power build with str stacking. As far as Build diversity goes, I’ll say with 100% certainty, we are much worse off than before.
Do try to get power to 2100 or over, obv strength runes can do that.
Also pack, scholar, etc.
Str is still best if you build towards might uptime, especially if you also have more than a couple condi’s (like you run p/d or something).
Though I think you’re just going to need to convince yourself ;p
I run pack in wvw cause I like the quality of life improvement. I convinced myself that was better.
In before math wizards.
Pack runes all the way.
+1
Imo they need to nerf str runes, as of now they are at the top of the food chain, running full str runs grants perm might with about 15-25 stacks. …
They don’t give might (the #4 isn’t that powerful), they amplify what is already available, thus they might look at that first. You won’t get 25 stack btw, not from thief, but 15 should be not problem.
With might on dodge and 25% boon duration from trait line + the 25% might duration from runes and constant switching you can get 25 stacks easy i got 15 alone just using sigils on dummies
After using the might on dodge food I don’t really like it that much. The food provides about 5 seconds of might base value. Considering one stack of might provide only 35 power, you need at least 3 stacks for it to compare to the standard 100power/70 precision food. That means you need to dodge 3 times to get that 7~ seconds of might.
I’d still prefer the normal 100power/70precision food instead due to its consistency. I also don’t notice that much increase in endurance with the food either. Considering S/D already has so many dodging options, it seems a tad overkill to use. I find for S/D I’m usually dying not because I ran out of dodges, but rather I mistimed my dodge due to lack of experience on other classes.
I think strength runes are fine as is. It does exactly as it is described. It’s supposed to max DPS, it’s supposed to be on the “top of the food chain”.
If you’re S/D though and roaming in WvW then Pack runes is a cheaper alternative and fulfill another purpose: perma-swiftness and almost perma-fury while in combat. It doesn’t quite match the 7% damage increase, but personally if you liked Traveler runes for the movement speed, then perma-swiftness is technically an upgrade.
(edited by Tachii.3506)
I was talking about the acro trait not food acro trait is like 25 secs. I use defensive food
Also str makes many other pow rumes useless. Why get 4% dmgand a dog frm ogre wen u get 7% + might stacks why get 10% only wen high hp wen u get 7% and might?
Runes of Aristocracy. Just about the same thing, with cond. damage instead of power, 3 stacks of might on heal and no bonus damage.
Free too, just a time investment.
To be honest the might stacks isn’t that much. It’s just 30% in duration. The real value is the 7% damage. I can see some value in a pet since it is another enemy that the opponent can’t really completely ignore. Another variable in the fight might be an advantage than the flat 7% damage. Although I wished the trigger is not getting struck but actually striking your enemy instead. The getting struck aspect I find disappointing since skillful play is usually all about evading the right attacks.
Strength is great, but I like Ogre too because that dog is just too fabulous, also provides great DPS, you just have to get hit to get the dog though. Most importantly it is cheap. That is the set of runes i’m using together with my exotic armor which i gradually replace with ascended/strength on my thief.
Imo they need to nerf str runes, as of now they are at the top of the food chain, running full str runs grants perm might with about 15-25 stacks. no other rune set other then maybe holbrek with battle/ might sigils can do this. it just makes all other runes not viable. like wurm, scholars only good if you never get hit, and even ogre. I’m hoping they do nerd them so then we can have more options then being pigeon hole’d in to a runes set jstu because nothing can match it.
Power was always the best stat in most cases if you had to chose a offensive stat. The nerf to ferocity/crit damage makes power more important. Since they just made this change it won’t be reverted and it won’t change that power is still the most important stat.
The problem with alot of the runes that don’t have power as a main stat is that well they don’t have power as a main stat.
Not sure what you use this for though PvE or sPvP or WvW. In PvE it was the same as before a best rune which was scholar for organized parties, orbs or ogre if your puggin it up with non organized. Now it’s Scholar as the best for organized, strength for pugging with not a big drop from scholar, then whatever else after I think orbs are still the best after strength IIRC for PvE.
sPvP/WvW it’s strength because scholar is unrealistic to maintain that modifier. I think pack is better on a thief in WvW though. A perma fury thief is deadly and you get the 175 power, and 6 crit chance.
On a thief in WvW you might as well assume with pack +175 power +525 precision since you will have +20% crit chance just about every fight for it’s duration.
I have sustain need more deeps and im at 220% crit dmg? Jst power is 1.8k
This use to work stack alot of crit damage skimp on power still put out good damage. That doesn’t work anymore because of the ferocity change and has less really to do with strength runes.
You need modifiers>power>precision>ferocity. Run seaweed salad and get yourself +10% damage while moving it’s more damage then any other food in the game it just doesn’t make your hero panel look pretty.
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
(edited by oZii.2864)
cant do it….I use ’em myself
with might on dodge and on signet use, 15+ is easy to maintain solo……add any more players with fire fields and its nearly perma 25 stack.
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
already have 4 mods. 10% while endurance isn’t full 10 % while int above 6. 20% ween enemy 50% hp and 5 % wen behind enemy. also force 5%.
With might on dodge and 25% boon duration from trait line + the 25% might duration from runes and constant switching you can get 25 stacks easy i got 15 alone just using sigils on dummies
You’re probably not going to see those 15 stacks a lot under normal usage. But anyway, it seems about right for optimal circumstances, 9-12 is quite common with Runes and Sigil of Strength, Inertia and the grandmaster SA trait and without the food.
The might on dodge might (from the food) is only 5 seconds base, according to the wiki, so about 8 seconds on Runes of Strength + Acro (assuming you’d want to abuse this). You’d have to do some math with the +40% regen and +15 return on dodge (about 4 dodges in 10 seconds?), but I estimate it will not cover 10 might stacks, more 4 -5 (3 from food might and 2 from the additional triggers of Inertia).
Btw, I seriously don’t see you getting even 15 stacks of Might without Hidden Assassin, in practical situations. I get around 15 stacks, without the food, with Hidden Assassin, Inertia and Sigils and Runes of Strength. Using P/D about half of those come from Hidden Assassin.
(edit: added note on food for clarity)
(edited by frans.8092)
With might on dodge and 25% boon duration from trait line + the 25% might duration from runes and constant switching you can get 25 stacks easy i got 15 alone just using sigils on dummies
You’re probably not going to see those 15 stacks a lot under normal usage. But anyway, it seems about right for optimal circumstances, 9-12 is quite common with Runes and Sigil of Strength, Inertia and the grandmaster SA trait and without the food.
The might on dodge might is only 5 seconds base, according to the wiki, so about 8 seconds on Runes of Strength + Acro (assuming you’d want to abuse this). You’d have to do some math with the +40% regen and +15 return on dodge (about 4 dodges in 10 seconds?), but I estimate it will not cover 10 might stacks, more 4 -5 (3 from food might and 2 from the additional triggers of Inertia).
Btw, I seriously don’t see you getting even 15 stacks of Might without Hidden Assassin, in practical situations. I get around 15 stacks, without the food, with Hidden Assassin, Inertia and Sigils and Runes of Strength. Using P/D about half of those come from Hidden Assassin.
do you even play a thief? You just wrote complete Bullkitten. It’s 15 seconds, not 5; with strength and acrobatics it becomes 15×1.75 = 26.25 seconds of might on dodge.
Then you already open up with 2 energy bars. Permanent Vigor makes it a dodge once every 3.5 seconds(3.5 seconds to get 35 energy), but let’s not forget you’ll also have one(or two) energy sigils, as well as a signet which restores all your endurance on demand. So in combat it won’t be wrong to say that the thief is pressing dodge once per 2.5 seconds, and that would mean around 10 stacks from just dodging.
do you even play a thief? You just wrote complete Bullkitten. It’s 15 seconds, not 5;
Hey, keep it friendly pal, the wiki page Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew on the food says the food gives 5 seconds might on dodge and I take their word over yours any day.
On swap sigils don’t work well, unless you’re happy to let the cooldown decide which weapon you use and if you go that route you might be better of with Sigil of Battle (there’s a limit to how much endurance you really need) for the might stacking. Permanent Vigor doesn’t exist, for thieves, and for the best vigor uptime in combination with you loose either the crit chance (for Sigil of Strength) or Hidden Assassin. Vigor is also completely redundant with the food we were talking about.
Without the food and relying on Hidden Assasin, Power of Inertia (with Feline Grace) and Sigils of Strength, the Runes of Strength net me about 12-16 stacks of might in practical use (might be some allied stcks in there btw). The food could get it to, I estimate, 18-20.
(edited by frans.8092)
do you even play a thief? You just wrote complete Bullkitten. It’s 15 seconds, not 5;
Hey, keep it friendly pal, the wiki page Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew on the food says the food gives 5 seconds might on dodge and I take their word over yours any day.
On swap sigils don’t work well, unless you’re happy to let the cooldown decide which weapon you use and if you go that route you might be better of with Sigil of Battle (there’s a limit to how much endurance you really need) for the might stacking. Permanent Vigor doesn’t exist, for thieves, and for the best vigor uptime in combination with you loose either the crit chance (for Sigil of Strength) or Hidden Assassin. Vigor is also completely redundant with the food we were talking about.
Without the food and relying on Hidden Assasin, Power of Inertia (with Feline Grace) and Sigils of Strength, the Runes of Strength net me about 12-16 stacks of might in practical use (might be some allied stcks in there btw). The food could get it to, I estimate, 18-20.
like i said before i got 15 on a dummy and thats without being hit. add that plus the dodging.
I agree with the above posts S/D 10-0-0-30-30 Pack runes is realy fun to play AND very effective .Zerg weapons , Valk armor, Zerg/Valk trinkets .Lots of evades and damage
I love the mobile non stealth thief .
Alts : Warrior- Mesmer lvl 80 [Piken Square]
Death is just the beginning
I agree with the above posts S/D 10-0-0-30-30 Pack runes is realy fun to play AND very effective .Zerg weapons , Valk armor, Zerg/Valk trinkets .Lots of evades and damage
I love the mobile non stealth thief .
im jst afraid of losing dmg if i go pack I’ve yet to try it
Hey, keep it friendly pal, the wiki page Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew on the food says the food gives 5 seconds might on dodge and I take their word over yours any day.
Confirmed that the wiki is correct. I tried these out post-patch with my Strength runes, and they are simply not worth it for the most part, even with the extended duration. The food needs to have a base of at least 10s or something before it starts becoming worthwhile. Flat stat food is better.
Permanent Vigor doesn’t exist, for thieves, and for the best vigor uptime in combination with you loose either the crit chance (for Sigil of Strength) or Hidden Assassin.
This isn’t technically true; you just need deep Acrobatics/Trickery and a source of boon duration from somewhere else in order to get access to perma Vigor.
PS: sorry, OP, but Runes of Strength are stupid good for us as a profession. You need to decide what’s more important to you: optimal DPS, or your bank account.
Runes of Aristocracy. Just about the same thing, with cond. damage instead of power, 3 stacks of might on heal and no bonus damage.
Free too, just a time investment.
You can actually build might faster on these then on Strength runes. That 3 on heal can be made into 6 on heal with marjories chili and when one uses withdraw that is 6 stacks that will last until the next heal.
The absolute fastest way to get might is with the signets of course.
Now for power users consider this.
You are giving up 175 power using Aristocrat Runes over Strength runes but gaining more damage from your conditions. Strength has 7 percent bonus damage when might running which is around 175 more power.
So that is 350 more power overall minus the extra stacks of might an Aristocrat build would generally have .
With any extra damage factored in from conditions the tradeoff is not that bad.
>>Confirmed that the wiki is correct. I tried these out post-patch with my Strength runes, and they are simply not worth it for the most part, even with the extended duration. The food needs to have a base of at least 10s or something before it starts becoming worthwhile. Flat stat food is better.
Use MARJORIES chili.
The 3 stacks of might last 20 seconds base. It has an ICD of 20 seconds. Thus each heal with no further boon duration will give you three might stacks (105 power and 105 condition) for 29 seconds.
It also adds 50 power and 50 condition damage for 155 power total and 155 condition damage total.
As to the Orian stew, while in my tests it built might slower then marjories the 40 percent increased recharge to endurance can not be overlooked. The might one gets from the dodge and power of inertia that the increased rate provides can not be overlooked. Extra dodges are never a bad thing.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
Use MARJORIES chili.
The 3 stacks of might last 20 seconds base. It has an ICD of 20 seconds. Thus each heal with no further boon duration will give you three might stacks (105 power and 105 condition) for 29 seconds.
It also adds 50 power and 50 condition damage for 155 power total and 155 condition damage total.
That may work for some people, but not me. Marjory’s is expensive, the ICD conflicts with my heal (Withdraw), and I can’t use the condition damage effectively (S/P + SB). If I can ever buy a bowl without mortgaging Salma District, and the ICD drops to 15 seconds, I wouldn’t mind the boost.
Seems more like something that an SA-spec Thief with HiS would use.
EDIT:
As to the Orian stew, whil in my tests it build might slower then marjories the 40 percent increased recharge to endurance can not be overlooked. The might one gets from the dodge and power of inertia that the increased rate provides can not be overlooked.
You can easily overlook the endurance recharge boost once you realize that it doesn’t stack with Vigor.
>>That may work for some people, but not me. Marjory’s is expensive, the ICD conflicts with my heal (Withdraw), and I can’t use the condition damage effectively (S/P + SB).
Actually if you do the math the conflict with withdraw is NOT an issue.
The might lasts 30 seconds. You can only heal twice in 30 seconds using withdraw. It very very rare there ever a conflict. (Withdraw is my heal)
It IS expensive.
It works even better with Aristocrat runes.
>>You can easily overlook the endurance recharge boost once you realize that it doesn’t stack with Vigor.
I had not considered that but then again one may not always have vigor . When Vigor running you get 100 percent recharge and when it not you get 40 percent recharge. Not all that bad. It becomes redundant only when there a build with 100 percent (or close to it) vigor uptime.
That said I would still use marjories myself .
(edited by babazhook.6805)
I cooked 60 pieces of Orrian truffle and meat stew for my d/d 0-6-6-2-0 build and sold 50 at the next day .This food doesn’t worth . i prefer plates of Trufle stake (=100 power +70 precition ) or even Chocolate Omnoberry cream which helps me stack might better and longer specialy when trait a signet.
Alts : Warrior- Mesmer lvl 80 [Piken Square]
Death is just the beginning
Just a question. Have any considered the Superior Rune of Rage?
A 30 percent increase to fury uptime? I have been toying with the notion of trying for 100 percent fury uptime and wondering how that would commpete with increased might duration and or runes of the pack which are also interesting.
@ Mystogan .Consider that you gain 10% dmg from Fluid strikes 1-15% from Lead attacks that’s much more consistent dps output than Executioner. And a tip mate : don’t forget to have signet of agility as one of your utility and energy sigils on both weapon sets
Alts : Warrior- Mesmer lvl 80 [Piken Square]
Death is just the beginning
(edited by Hawkeye.9687)
Just a question. Have any considered the Superior Rune of Rage?
A 30 percent increase to fury uptime? I have been toying with the notion of trying for 100 percent fury uptime and wondering how that would commpete with increased might duration and or runes of the pack which are also interesting.
err I’ve used them twice i think while testing but i really don’t like the on being hit instead of hitting an enemy we are squish as it is
@ Mystogan .Consider that you gain 10% dmg from Fluid strikes 1-15% from Lead attacks that’s much more consistent dps output than Executioner. And a tip mate : don’t forget to have signet of agility as one of your utility and energy sigils on both weapon sets
wha? i have both executioners and fluid and i don’t use energy sigils I’m using force/ battle FOR NOW for testing purposes