Guild Wars 2

Builds countering our enemies.

I want to make a list of different popular builds our enemies use and how the thief can counter them. For instance, bunker Elementalists.

Hope the thief community helps me with this one.

Dagger/Dagger Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Not applicable/viable at the moment. It is a hit or miss. Stealth affected by next patch.
• Use Cloak and Dagger at start to get behind them.
• Remember not to open up with standard Basilisk Venom + Steal combo. They will survive it.

VS N/A

Mesmer that use clones

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow AOE spam to nuke the clones.
• Tick off Show Npc Names from options and tick Show Always Player Names (clones do not have a name while the real Mesmer has a red name above it)

VS Conditional

Mesmers

• Hide in shadows/Blinding powder/Shadow refuge – Basilisk Venom
• At least have 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth

VS Glass Cannon

Mesmers

• Open up with Basilisk Venom + Steal + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab.

Necromancers

• Evade their marks in order to not only break the marks but take no damage
• Switch to short bow if they go into plague form.

Rangers

• Try to C/D their pet to get behind them
• Use gap closers techniques

Warriors

• Kite them to death until you feel confident of burning them down.
• Maintain a distance away to avoid 100 Blades; Whirlwind Attack; and negate Bladetrail.

Dagger/Pistol Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Elite – Thieves Guild.

VS Glass Cannon

Ranger

• Open with Shadow Shot + BP + HS + BS + Stomp

X/D Thieves

• Open up with Shadow Shot.
• Stand in Black Powder if they use utility/heal to stealth to reduce the risk of stealth attacks.

X/P Thieves

• Use Blind to hamper Shadow Shot and Heartseeker
• Try to stealth after them

Warrior

• Maintain a distance away to avoid 100 Blades; Whirlwind Attack; and negate Bladetrail.
• When on the offensive, use Shadow shot and Black Powder to reduce incoming damage.

Sword Dagger Glass Cannon Approach

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Very effective since we can keep them disabled for a long time in addition to Basilisk
• The key is Tactical Strike and Sleight of Hand, plus the boon removal capability of Flanking Strike.

Do you just want bunker ele or multiple classes? Irregardless I am interested in this thread, I hope people put suggestions for multiple thief builds instead of “Lol 4 warrurs use infiltrt0urs strike with sord” What if I dont use the sword?

RedSpectrum.1975:

Do you just want bunker ele or multiple classes? Irregardless I am interested in this thread, I hope people put suggestions for multiple thief builds instead of “Lol 4 warrurs use infiltrt0urs strike with sord” What if I dont use the sword?

Multiple classes. I hope so too.

Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map

RedSpectrum.1975:

Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map

How do you start off against a bunker ele? Do you know the build that mesmers generally use?

Authority.6145:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map

How do you start off against a bunker ele? Do you know the build that mesmers generally use?

The mesmers im referring to are the ones that use they clones to confuse you while they hide behind their army (dont know the actual build) Glasscannon mesmers are a little trickiersicne their clones are made to burst you down so finding ones to CnD off of is a bit difficult. So for a glass cannon mes ( if I know they are gc) I open up with B venom steal CnD backstab and that brings them down before they realize their true potential. As for bunker eles, For an elite I recommend TG since that adds extra support albeit for a short time. The reason bunker classes are a thief’s worst nightmare is because they can outlast us for much longer periods of time. So I recommend attacking from behind at the start, DO NOT use BV and steal to open up, they not only will survive it, but will heal (which the seem to do every 2 seconds-_-) and now you are down two utilities. BUT if you are using BV and you get them down to low health, you can use that plus steal to finish them off once and for all. <—- personal exp
Edit: also for mesmers, dodge forward not away when it comes to phantasms and for ele -ahem- DODGE ALOT but no reckless dodging, that stuff gets you killed
-cough- this is when a sword use tells us what they do in this scenario-cough-

RedSpectrum.1975:

Authority.6145:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map

How do you start off against a bunker ele? Do you know the build that mesmers generally use?

The mesmers im referring to are the ones that use they clones to confuse you while they hide behind their army (dont know the actual build) Glasscannon mesmers are a little trickiersicne their clones are made to burst you down so finding ones to CnD off of is a bit difficult. So for a glass cannon mes ( if I know they are gc) I open up with B venom steal CnD backstab and that brings them down before they realize their true potential. As for bunker eles, For an elite I recommend TG since that adds extra support albeit for a short time. The reason bunker classes are a thief’s worst nightmare is because they can outlast us for much longer periods of time. So I recommend attacking from behind at the start, DO NOT use BV and steal to open up, they not only will survive it, but will heal (which the seem to do every 2 seconds-_-) and now you are down two utilities. BUT if you are using BV and you get them down to low health, you can use that plus steal to finish them off once and for all. <—- personal exp
Edit: also for mesmers, dodge forward not away when it comes to phantasms and for ele -ahem- DODGE ALOT but no reckless dodging, that stuff gets you killed
-cough- this is when a sword use tells us what they do in this scenario-cough-

Thanks a lot. Tried to summarize your points. Will re-edit it tomorrow.

Authority.6145:

Builds countering our enemies.
D/D Approach.
VS Mesmers that use clones (unknown build)

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow aoe spam to nuke the clones.

Doesen’t work vs condition staf mesmers
you get hit stealthed by staf auto attack , if you destroy clones with your CnD , you get confusion

Rayya.2591:

Authority.6145:

Builds countering our enemies.
D/D Approach.
VS Mesmers that use clones (unknown build)

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow aoe spam to nuke the clones.

Doesen’t work vs condition staf mesmers
you get hit stealthed by staf auto attack , if you destroy clones with your CnD , you get confusion

Well then? You can contribute, 1 person giving their personal encounters isnt enough :p

RedSpectrum.1975:

Rayya.2591:

Authority.6145:

Builds countering our enemies.
D/D Approach.
VS Mesmers that use clones (unknown build)

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow aoe spam to nuke the clones.

Doesen’t work vs condition staf mesmers
you get hit stealthed by staf auto attack , if you destroy clones with your CnD , you get confusion

Well then? You can contribute, 1 person giving their personal encounters isnt enough :p

Try and keep those confusion stacks on u to minimum . Confusion mesmers are soooooo evil.

I’ll try and help out where I can:

D/P (Glass cannon variant) vs Glass GS Warrior.

- Stay out of their 100 Blades.
- When low on initiative stay a distance away to minimise risk posed by Whirlwind Attack (If up close there’s minimal time to react to what could be several thousand damage applied to your face)
- Keep moving to negate Bladetrail
- When on the offensive use Shadow Shot and Black Powder to severely reduce incoming damage.

D/P (Glass cannon variant) vs GC Ranger (LB, SB, S/D, GS)

- Open with Shadow Shot
- BP > HS > BS > Stomp

D/P (Glass cannon variant) vs X/D Thieves

- Shadow Shot for damage and blind.
- Stand in Black Powder if they use utility/heal to stealth to minimise risk of stealth attacks (Only for bad players whom are using D/D or S/D as melee range is larger than the radius of BP)

D/P (Glass cannon variant) vs X/P Thieves

- When they stealth, either stand in BP to minimise risk of stealth attacks (Only for D/P or S/P) or stealth yourself (If you stealth after them, they’ll be revealed first allowing an opening strike)
- Against P/P utilise stealth and backstabbing
- Against S/P utilise Blinds to hamper auto-attack chains and SS’s shadow step to counter their mobility
- Against D/P blinds will hamper any Heartseekers and Shadow Shots they try to deal

This is just how I tend to play vs the most common enemies I find when solo roaming in WvW

Updated the initial post.

Can someone tell me the runes that they use for D/P and also utilities + elite? Preferably for a SPvP situation.

Authority.6145:

Updated the initial post.

Can someone tell me the runes that they use for D/P and also utilities + elite? Preferably for a SPvP situation.

I personally use Vampirism Runes (Extra healing + damage works well with Withdraw’s low cooldown)

Heal skill: Withdraw (Hide in Shadows if up against a lot of conditions, as my build lacks condition removal elsewhere)

Utilities I run are: Infiltrator’s Signet (Signet of Shadows for WvW)/Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge.

Elites are swapped around a lot, Basalisk Venom can create some breathing room and allow for a stealth to be set up, Daggerstorm helps against both ranged and crowd control (Only used for damage in WvW) and Thieves Guild helps against tough targets like bunkers and such (Shouldn’t be used vs x/D Thieves though as they can CnD them)

Taril.8619:

Authority.6145:

Updated the initial post.

Can someone tell me the runes that they use for D/P and also utilities + elite? Preferably for a SPvP situation.

I personally use Vampirism Runes (Extra healing + damage works well with Withdraw’s low cooldown)

Heal skill: Withdraw (Hide in Shadows if up against a lot of conditions, as my build lacks condition removal elsewhere)

Utilities I run are: Infiltrator’s Signet (Signet of Shadows for WvW)/Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge.

Elites are swapped around a lot, Basalisk Venom can create some breathing room and allow for a stealth to be set up, Daggerstorm helps against both ranged and crowd control (Only used for damage in WvW) and Thieves Guild helps against tough targets like bunkers and such (Shouldn’t be used vs x/D Thieves though as they can CnD them)

Thanks for the info. Also do you know how I should go about with a venom build d/p? Like traits and the rest?

Authority.6145:

Thanks for the info. Also do you know how I should go about with a venom build d/p? Like traits and the rest?

Unfortunately, Venom builds are the only build type I haven’t used (I can’t seem to make a build I like) so don’t have much information about it.

Another tip for D/D backstabbers, against rangers. genreally, pf course, you want to get behind them. they will try to keep thier distance so cloak and dagger off of the pet and use gap closers and/or run up to them to get in melee range.

for staff necromancers(these guys can be rough if you don’t know what you are doing) fight them in the most general means i.e CnD backstab since thats what this build does best :p. Evade into their marks to not only break the marks but take no dmg in the process. If they go into plague form, fight them at a range, staying up close will raise your medical bill. Preferably shortbow.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Rayya.2591:

Authority.6145:

Builds countering our enemies.
D/D Approach.
VS Mesmers that use clones (unknown build)

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow aoe spam to nuke the clones.

Doesen’t work vs condition staf mesmers
you get hit stealthed by staf auto attack , if you destroy clones with your CnD , you get confusion

Well then? You can contribute, 1 person giving their personal encounters isnt enough :p

Against staf mesmers i sugest (Hide in shadows – shadowstep /blinding powder / shadaow refuge – basilik vennom) – at least 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth
Initiate with shadowstep – 1 autoattack chain -1 hs -CnD – Shadowreturn
Hide in shadows -basilik – steal +HS , dodge,Death blossom , dodge- blinding powder- backstab – try to finish
if you fail shadow refuge.

If people have a hard time fighting against mesmers who use clones, I suggest the following: turn off in options “show npc names” and turn ON allways show player names" or something, cant remember exactly what it says since im at work now.

This makes all the clones of the mesmer have no name over their heads, while the real mesmer always have a red name above them.

This has helped me a lot

Rayya.2591:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Rayya.2591:

Authority.6145:

Builds countering our enemies.
D/D Approach.
VS Mesmers that use clones (unknown build)

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow aoe spam to nuke the clones.

Doesen’t work vs condition staf mesmers
you get hit stealthed by staf auto attack , if you destroy clones with your CnD , you get confusion

Well then? You can contribute, 1 person giving their personal encounters isnt enough :p

Against staf mesmers i sugest (Hide in shadows – shadowstep /blinding powder / shadaow refuge – basilik vennom) – at least 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth
Initiate with shadowstep – 1 autoattack chain -1 hs -CnD – Shadowreturn
Hide in shadows -basilik – steal +HS , dodge,Death blossom , dodge- blinding powder- backstab – try to finish
if you fail shadow refuge.

Can you re-edit it this way because I am having a difficult time reproducing it.

VS Conditional

Mesmers

• Hide in shadows/Blinding powder/Shadow refuge – Basilisk Venom
• At least have 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth

I was really struggling and getting bored with d/d glass cannon build, just hated waiting on cooldowns and being useless after the initial burst so switched to dagger/pistol 0/10/30/30/0………… It rocks.

Fights last sooo much longer but its great, most fun I’ve had on my Thief. Best thing about this build is you can roam freely and harrass small groups of opposition.

Authority.6145:

Dagger/Dagger Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Elite – Thieves Guild.
• Use Cloak and Dagger at start to get behind them.
• Remember not to open up with standard Basilisk Venom + Steal combo. They will survive it.

You can’t really open with Basilisk if you have the T-Guild.

This is a hit-and-miss using D/D. The effective approach is S/D since you can keep them disabled for a long time in addition to Basilisk. The key is Tactical Strike and Sleight of Hand, plus the boon removal capability of Flanking Strike.

pitrelli.5361:

I was really struggling and getting bored with d/d glass cannon build, just hated waiting on cooldowns and being useless after the initial burst so switched to dagger/pistol 0/10/30/30/0………… It rocks.

Fights last sooo much longer but its great, most fun I’ve had on my Thief. Best thing about this build is you can roam freely and harrass small groups of opposition.

That is the thing. I have felt the same way. Especially the fact of feeling useless after the initial burst.

What runes and amulets are you using for that build?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Authority.6145:

Dagger/Dagger Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Elite – Thieves Guild.
• Use Cloak and Dagger at start to get behind them.
• Remember not to open up with standard Basilisk Venom + Steal combo. They will survive it.

You can’t really open with Basilisk if you have the T-Guild.

This is a hit-and-miss using D/D. The effective approach is S/D since you can keep them disabled for a long time in addition to Basilisk. The key is Tactical Strike and Sleight of Hand, plus the boon removal capability of Flanking Strike.

Thanks for noticing my error. Will re-edit it and add more info from your post.

By the way I have been meeting condi rangers. Anything we could do against them with any build?

Also against Rifle Warriors [WTF] information would be appreciated.

Oh Authority, I don’t know why I did’nt clear this up sooner, by my D/D build isnt glass cannon 10/30/30/0/0…whoopsies. Sorry if any out there got snapped in half

RedSpectrum.1975:

Oh Authority, I don’t know why I did’nt clear this up sooner, by my D/D build isnt glass cannon 10/30/30/0/0…whoopsies. Sorry if any out there got snapped in half

Haha. No worries. What type of build is it then? Do I need to change anything from the tips given in my main post due to that?

Authority.6145:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Authority.6145:

Dagger/Dagger Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Elite – Thieves Guild.
• Use Cloak and Dagger at start to get behind them.
• Remember not to open up with standard Basilisk Venom + Steal combo. They will survive it.

You can’t really open with Basilisk if you have the T-Guild.

This is a hit-and-miss using D/D. The effective approach is S/D since you can keep them disabled for a long time in addition to Basilisk. The key is Tactical Strike and Sleight of Hand, plus the boon removal capability of Flanking Strike.

Thanks for noticing my error. Will re-edit it and add more info from your post.

By the way I have been meeting condi rangers. Anything we could do against them with any build?

Also against Rifle Warriors [WTF] information would be appreciated.

I don’t think we can deal with Ele-bunkers and Condi-ranger with the same build, so this is one of those things where I have to rely on others to take care off since it’s not as easy as switching weapons and skills — a complete re-spec is needed.

You can go glass cannon vs bunkers since they dont do that much damage, but against other glass cannon and condi- builds, well, the glass breaks.

Rifle Warriors are easily dealt with using D/P shadow shot and Thieves Guild. They are single target build and easily countered by blindness. If done correctly, you can keep the Warrior blinded until they die capitalizing on your summoned thieves Black Power field also. If they try to burst, simply interrupt it with headshot. Extreme Init-management is required to pull this off though. Wait for the warrior to drop blindness before applying a new one.

Need more feedback. Hence the bump.

Here is the counter to any build:

Build post link: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/64152-jinzus-burst-backstab-build/
Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Drops bunker any class that isn’t ready for the burst in seconds.

Key thing about this build is that you need to have element of surprise. It works really well in spvp. It’s hilarious in wvw as well when you drop a bunker necro in seconds and he /invites you to tell you that you are terrible for spamming hs.

Any advice versus phantasm mesmers?

Bump for the sake of it.

Ele’s are easier to fight as D/P because it’s hard to CnD off them.

Backstabbing them isn’t always the best thing etiher. Sometimes using BP→HS wait 4s, and repeat is fairly effective while you are waiting on CDs or for one of their buffs to wear off.

You need condi removal on stealth tho.

It’s funny, I see no Engineers anywhere, I mean… It’s probably your worst encounter where the only action that would give you the advantage is to hit first and hit well.

Authority.6145:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Oh Authority, I don’t know why I did’nt clear this up sooner, by my D/D build isnt glass cannon 10/30/30/0/0…whoopsies. Sorry if any out there got snapped in half

Haha. No worries. What type of build is it then? Do I need to change anything from the tips given in my main post due to that?

It is the 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/10/0 balanced build.

What for D/P balanced (0-10-30-30-0) build? Oh well, it doesn’t matter. We always start a fight with stealth. Do we ever come out of stealth, btw? Last time I got revealed was 2 weeks ago.. Joking :P

Frenk.5917:

What for D/P balanced (0-10-30-30-0) build? Oh well, it doesn’t matter. We always start a fight with stealth. Do we ever come out of stealth, btw? Last time I got revealed was 2 weeks ago.. Joking :P

The only advice here is watch your initiative XD, and try not to kitten off small groups, they’ll get us nerfed……again

I can provide a couple of videos of fights vs a S\D thief and a Guardian, here they are
S\D http://www.twitch.tv/samoleth/c/2158154
and
Guardian http://www.twitch.tv/samoleth/c/2142265
Hope this helps

MrForz.1953:

It’s funny, I see no Engineers anywhere, I mean… It’s probably your worst encounter where the only action that would give you the advantage is to hit first and hit well.

Yeah Engies are really hard for me.