Guild Wars 2

I suggest that Thieves need to have some kind of counter play to revealed, not a power creep but something that compensates Thieves for having such a huge part of their class mechanic denied for a period of time.

When revealed Thieves possibly loose:

• Access to some of their biggest attacks
• Initiative regeneration
• Condition Removal
• Cloaked in Shadows regeneration
• Passive -25% damage reduction from stealth
• 50% speed in stealth
• Their main survival mechanic
  etc

So it doesn’t seem quite right that one single class/player can pretty much stack permanent reveal onto the Thief with impunity by the press of an Aoe button.

I think by building bonuses into some of the weaker traits, perhaps one per trait line similar to ‘Revealed Training’ (but much more impactful) in deadly arts, to perhaps give pause to whether its a good idea or not to reveal the thief.

So for example – thief gains 1 stack of might per second while revealed. Normal duration of reveal wouldn’t make this super OP – 3 or 4 stacks but a 15 /20 sec reveal would make applying such long duration reveal more dangerous.

Other trait lines could be things such as Stability on reveal, stacking damage bonus on reveal, Resistance on reveal , Super speed on reveal and so on.

+1.

+50 for super speed.

/15charrs

The issue I have with Revealed is that it’s a self-inflicted Nerf.

I can understand other professions applying Revealed on Thieves, but the Thief themselves self-inflicting Revealed is stupid and illogical.

Or…if Anet had the tech for it; remove access to Reveal from the game completely other than stealth classes who attack directly from stealth.

Replace it with a mechanic that allows one person to see and target people in stealth for x amount of time. Lets call it “Clairvoyance”; so the profession would still be in stealth and couldn’t be targeted by everyone and their mother. They would still gain the passive defensive traits stealth gives but it also stealth no longer would be a free “get out of jail” card.

Skill cap increase; counter-play still available; primary defensive function still in place for stealth oriented professions..etc.

Bllade.1029:

Replace it with a mechanic that allows one person to see and target people in stealth for x amount of time. Lets call it “Clairvoyance”; so the profession would still be in stealth and couldn’t be targeted by everyone and their mother. They would still gain the passive defensive traits stealth gives but it also stealth no longer would be a free “get out of jail” card.

Sounds like that would depend on having whether a player is revealed or not be client sided.

Client sided means hackers.

Unless I’m ignorant of a better way to do that.

Probabllly not. but I like the concept.

Revealed applied by enemy should have never been implemented on first place. It should have been spotted if anything (enemies see your silhuette and can target you but you are still in stealth). Instead lazy solution was chosen at costs of thief players.

Better idea: Make “Reveal” Skills SHOW the player, but not prevent him from gaining stealth. So, for example…. I use shadow refuge, and an engineer uses their new stealth gyro AOE reveal ability…. He can now see me, watch me move, keep tabs on me BUT I am still in stealth and can still backstab him.

Christonya.3856:

Better idea: Make “Reveal” Skills SHOW the player, but not prevent him from gaining stealth. So, for example…. I use shadow refuge, and an engineer uses their new stealth gyro AOE reveal ability…. He can now see me, watch me move, keep tabs on me BUT I am still in stealth and can still backstab him.

Or just a simple icon floating on the Thief’s head would suffice. No need to change the status of the Thief, just an indicator to show where the Thief is. They can even use the Eye of Janthir, all-seeing eye, as the icon. that follows the Thief around.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Eye_of_Janthir.jpg

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Bllade.1029:

Replace it with a mechanic that allows one person to see and target people in stealth for x amount of time. Lets call it "Clairvoyance"; so the profession would still be in stealth and couldn’t be targeted by everyone and their mother. They would still gain the passive defensive traits stealth gives but it also stealth no longer would be a free "get out of jail" card.

Sounds like that would depend on having whether a player is revealed or not be client sided.

Client sided means hackers.

Unless I’m ignorant of a better way to do that.

Probabllly not. but I like the concept.

No, the server must know where you are even in stealth. If it knows, it can communicate that information to any player within rendering distance that has a buff enabling them to see stealthed players, or a buff to see a single previously targeted stealthed player. Players without that buff would not be told the location of that player by the server.

Perhaps you’re thinking it would enable individual players with such a buff, having been told the stealthed player’s location by the server, to then use a program to automatically communicate to their team mates’ instance of GW2 the location of that player, intercepting and or injecting the necessary code such that the player then becomes visible on their game client. That would be possible, I suppose, but a little extreme. I mean, it’d only be done if at all by close premade teams, which means they have voice communication, so why not simply tell them where the stealthed player is located.

counterplay to revealed should be that reveal skills can be avoided, not a mechanic on top of a mechanic that is designed to hold back a third mechanic. that’s just feature creeping the hell out of stealth.

even if the cast time is short, untargeted reveals should have one, and targeted ones, well, the guy has to have the foresight to know you’re about to go into stealth to use it well, so it’s already the counter to a mechanic.

yes, i’m aware that my opinion is unpopular among thieves, but i do think reveal-applying skills have their place in the game without needing another mechanic to make them null and void. it’s all a matter of having fair play, and right now most reveal skills have it (sic’em needs to be looked into though >.> )

I’d still like some kind of aegis or retaliation as I want people to use their brain and not just 111111111111 of flame thrower. So punish them for using brainless skills and reward them when they figure out stealth counters without reveal skills.

The problem is complex though. It’s combat in this game in general. Too much damage right now, too little time to properly fight and think.

BrunoBRS.5178:

snip

As more and more ways to counter stealth make it into the game, it makes sense to compensate the loss of an entire trait line + several skills/utilities by adding something to compensate.

Personally, i think a feature creep in this case would be adding a 2nd stealth that is immune to reveal not passive bonuses for being locked out of half of your class.

One single Engineer with 1 trait(line) and 2 utilities can keep a thief locked out of stealth indefinatley No other class can be locked out/denied such a huge part of their class an entire fight so i don’t understand why people are OK with this, even calling it ‘fair play’.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The issue I have with Revealed is that it’s a self-inflicted Nerf.

I can understand other professions applying Revealed on Thieves, but the Thief themselves self-inflicting Revealed is stupid and illogical.

Exactely, I think the solution is that our own skills does not apply revealed anymore because now there are other professions that can apply revealed to us.

We can also triple the longer of stealth because with the skills that revealed us it is really too initiative costy to be in stealth

Cynz.9437:

Revealed applied by enemy should have never been implemented on first place. It should have been spotted if anything (enemies see your silhuette and can target you but you are still in stealth). Instead lazy solution was chosen at costs of thief players.

This is exactly what happened. Being targettable and visible wouldn’t make it completely broken but obviously it meant a lot of work so they went with the lazy solution and yup… there we have “Reveal”.