Guild Wars 2

Maybe d/d could get a cloak & dagger bonus or something. The only viable build right now is d/p because every other profession is much more powerful.

It really wouldn’t take much to fix. Here’s what I’d do:

1. Leave the same
2. same damage, return % values to 66% and 33%
3. Up power damage/scaling to be comparable to Shadow Shot.
4. Return this to what it was at release ( 5 sec cripple, 4 ini and about 50% more damage) double projectile speed.
5. reduce ini by 1 and make it instant speed.

In Shadow Arts move CiS to master tier. Done, d/d is now viable as power or vipers.

d/d is fine, l2p

Coolguy.8702:

d/d is fine, l2p

which is why i encounter them all over the place and dedicated d/d thieves haven’t dropped it for the objectively superior d/p

oh wait.

Dakarius.3284:

Coolguy.8702:

d/d is fine, l2p

which is why i encounter them all over the place and dedicated d/d thieves haven’t dropped it for the objectively superior d/p

oh wait.

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better. You get a spammable evade, free access to stealth with c&d that applies vuln. And a cripple that dkes fair dps with 4. What more could u want?

Coolguy.8702:

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better… free access to stealth with… What more could u want?

AlCojester.4316:

Coolguy.8702:

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better… free access to stealth with… What more could u want?

[Laughing/Facepalm gif]

+1; proper gif response.

I’ve beaten an overwhelming majority of D/P players proclaiming skill when beating me while I play D/D by subsequently equipping an offhand pistol and three-shotting them with Shadow Shot when we fight again. And then again. And then again. No stealth, backstab, or heartseeker needed.

D/P is about as skill-less easy-mode as the class gets.

DeceiverX.8361:

AlCojester.4316:

Coolguy.8702:

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better… free access to stealth with… What more could u want?

[Laughing/Facepalm gif]

+1; proper gif response.

I’ve beaten an overwhelming majority of D/P players proclaiming skill when beating me while I play D/D by subsequently equipping an offhand pistol and three-shotting them with Shadow Shot when we fight again. And then again. And then again. No stealth, backstab, or heartseeker needed.

D/P is about as skill-less easy-mode as the class gets.

Shadow shot is one of the easiest skills the thief has. it ports. it hits HARD. It blinds. it unblockable. D/D has nothing like it.

babazhook.6805:

DeceiverX.8361:

AlCojester.4316:

Coolguy.8702:

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better… free access to stealth with… What more could u want?

[Laughing/Facepalm gif]

+1; proper gif response.

I’ve beaten an overwhelming majority of D/P players proclaiming skill when beating me while I play D/D by subsequently equipping an offhand pistol and three-shotting them with Shadow Shot when we fight again. And then again. And then again. No stealth, backstab, or heartseeker needed.

D/P is about as skill-less easy-mode as the class gets.

Shadow shot is one of the easiest skills the thief has. it ports. it hits HARD. It blinds. it unblockable. D/D has nothing like it.

Wrong. Death blossom is life

Yeah, it easy to say d/p is easy mode when they can spam shadowshot. and d/d is just as easy mode because it has DB easy mode.

Off hand dagger needs to be buffed because sword dagger is too fun for it too stay kitten

Death Blossom should just be redesigned because it’s boring.

Dancing Dagger is fine.

CnD should have a wider hitbox and cleave three targets and apply an extra second of stealth per additional target.

Deathblossom needs to have the same directional targeting that warrior’s GS #3 (whirlwind attack) has. I wouldn’t remove the bleeds till we get a true condition weapon mainhand (axe?).
Dancing Dagger needs a projectile speed increase (33%), have a 1.0 multiplier, and not bounce or cripple. When it hits it marks the target and gives you a rollover skill that’s instant cast and 2 initiative. The rollover shadowsteps you to the marked target, cripples it for 3 seconds, and removes a condition (no damage). This would let it be used in conjunction with CnD.
Cloak and Dagger needs to blind and be 5 initiative.
I think the above changes help D/D with positioning and gap closing without making the set OP or needing to nerf D/P, although Shadowshot could have its damage reduced.

Coolguy.8702:

Dakarius.3284:

Coolguy.8702:

d/d is fine, l2p

which is why i encounter them all over the place and dedicated d/d thieves haven’t dropped it for the objectively superior d/p

oh wait.

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better. You get a spammable evade, free access to stealth with c&d that applies vuln. And a cripple that dkes fair dps with 4. What more could u want?

LOL this guy is troll dont feed him lol gave me a good laugh !

From my thread

Kicker.8203:

• Death Blossom: evade is now 1/2 and it’s a spamm skill for condi builds. It has to scale more with power. To prevent spamming it and add more play, it should switch -if any of the attacks hit- into a second skill(I don’t insist on a certain skill but to give you an idea:)
  Marked for Death: Death Blossom marks the foe first hit similarly to how Shadow Trap does.
  —Marked for Death(3 initiative): You can teleport to and knockdown your foe as soon as he is at least 900 range away from you. (if you can’t catch up you can just run in the other direction, fun counterplay)
  If the teleport is not used in the following 6 seconds or so, the skill would reset back to Death Blossom.
  The point is adding a flipping skill to prevent evade spamming without adding CD.
  Possible variants:
  Same, but you teleport automatically upon reaching 900 range.
  Activating it stealths you, teleports behind/to your foe also inflicting vulnerability. (counterplay: vulnerability lets them know that you are coming)
  Alternatively it could just teleport to your foe and hit them similarly to Shadow Shot’s damage part. (maybe not both stealth and teleport because then all weapon sets have everything if staff gets it too)
  —Why teleport? D/D has no mobility.
• Cloak and Dagger: this skill is very difficult to hit opposed to the smoke field+heartseeker combo. Using it puts you at risk as a thief so it should either reward a successful hit with a bit longer stealth duration or blind application.
  bug: Steal with Mug+ CnD often causes self-reveal.(teleport+CnD happens before mug damage)

P/d and d/d are condi weapons that scale well with power, so hybrid (rip). If you are confused by my meaning on p/d just go grab a marauder amulet and do the 2/steal/3/infil/3 combo. Its just…stupid. I personally would want to rework it to this:

Dagger mainhand is a weapon focused on limiting your foes combat capability and quickly finishing them off.
DagAuto1- unchanged.
DagAuto2- Strike three times (damage same as current stage) and apply 1 second cripple per strike.
DagAuto3- unchanged.
Heartseeker- modifier back to 66/33% and range increased (keeps cast time, so further faster)

Dagger offhand is primarily focused on punishing lone targets and bursting them as quickly as possible-
Dancing Dagger- 3 bounces. Bounce at least once between targets, if only one target it bounces onto them 3 times applying one stack of vulnerability and cripple for 2 seconds each (and if two, its one on one and two on the other).
Cloak and Dagger- If enemy target is crippled this ability will now teleport you to them.

Death Blossom- Damage variant only, make power more effective.
Shadow shot- take off the unblockable
Shadow Strike- apply confusion equal to torment or apply vulnerability?
Flanking Strike- merged with Larcenous. boon steal is same, ability is blockable but boon steal is not (so damage can be stopped, but we still take your might stacks)
Larcenous Strike- see Flanking.

Inb4 shot down because too op.

Ground target Death Blossom pl0x.

AlCojester.4316:

Coolguy.8702:

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better… free access to stealth with… What more could u want?

+1, gif Lord
/15 charrs walk into a bar… ( get it? 15 chars. It’s a pun in a joke)

AlCojester.4316:

Coolguy.8702:

d/p is weak tbh, d/d is way better… free access to stealth with… What more could u want?

+1, gif Lord
/15 charrs walk into a bar… ( get it? 15 chars. It’s a pun in a joke)

Maugetarr.6823:

Deathblossom needs to have the same directional targeting that warrior’s GS #3 (whirlwind attack) has. I wouldn’t remove the bleeds till we get a true condition weapon mainhand (axe?).
Dancing Dagger needs a projectile speed increase (33%), have a 1.0 multiplier, and not bounce or cripple. When it hits it marks the target and gives you a rollover skill that’s instant cast and 2 initiative. The rollover shadowsteps you to the marked target, cripples it for 3 seconds, and removes a condition (no damage). This would let it be used in conjunction with CnD.
Cloak and Dagger needs to blind and be 5 initiative.
I think the above changes help D/D with positioning and gap closing without making the set OP or needing to nerf D/P, although Shadowshot could have its damage reduced.

I proposed a similar idea to distribute condi use into P/D better, take out the safety that is D/D condi evasion cheese to make it a real build, and bump the stickiness on D/D overall for power builds while resolving the core issues with Dancing Dagger’s low base damage and high scaling potential on power builds, as seen below:

DeceiverX.8361:

This is kind of where they were trying to push DT. The problem is that it can’t be 100% the way it is now, because then Death Blossom spam would be completely absurd dealing 3 bleed and 3 poison.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

Dagger Training Should apply poison to each auto attack at a 100% chance, and just the auto. Remove the bleed from Death Blossom, and put it on Dancing Dagger. Buff Dancing Dagger’s damage by 50% and remove the ability for it to hit the same target multiple times, and just have it hit the target and up to three nearby enemies.
Death Blossom should be reworked into a multi-hit evading lunge with better range than it has now, similar to Whirlwind Attack (Warrior GS3), at the cost of an additional initiative, giving the set more mobility and stickiness to compete with D/P and some evasion and disengage potential to keep it stylized in between S/D.

This improves power D/D through a better evade and more useful and consistent Dancing Dagger, and lets condi D/x get better and more reliable condition application while increasing the skill cap and not making it overwhelming with DD.

It was rejected in length by a D/D condi player because “death blossom spam is fun and requires skill to time” (lol), that “death blossom should not require more skill than an evade” (lol) and “combo finishers on multiple bounces from Dancing Dagger are very useful” (lol).

There’s going to be resistance as long as the class requires more than two buttons to play or requires some amount of intellect, even if such proposals lead to net buffs. In the case of what someone mentioned above, he proclaimed D/P required more skill than D/D, which is either completely untrue in the case of power, or just as spammy and bad-friendly in the case of conditions.

It irks me sPvP has gotten people so competitive and so upset about balance due to the massive imbalance of the game that we’re left with mostly FoTM players who aren’t willing to make balance compromises and reward skillful play while punishing bad play; instead they just want to be overpowered for free wins for no legitimate reason.

The problem with d/d is that 40 percent of it is d/p and the other 60 percent of it is inferior to D/P when speaking to a power build.

Now SOME of that has to be accepted. Dblossom is more suited to Condition builds. It is what it is and there nothing wrong with this. There are enough weaponsets focused on power. D/D should be left as usabke for condition and power.

Shadow Shot is all round one of the best thief skills there is for a power build and while in theory The CND of number 5 will apply more damage then the number 5 of d/p the current meta means this does not work in practice.

D/P blinds BEFORE the stealth meaning damage can be mitigated before that stealth and D/P is also much easier to enter stealth with. There less ways an enemy can prevent it.

CnD even traited with blind on stealth blinds AFTER the stealth and you have to get up front and close in order to CnD. When you do that there more ways for an enemy to block and dodge and when you do that you have to stand in any wells or AOE to do so. That it cheaper in Ini to get that stealth then using powder and a heartseeker is not what happens in practice because more of them will fail then would a powder and heartseeker.

Given how much harder it is to enter stealth and given the fact that the extra damage is easily offset by a much easier to use #3 for damage on the d/p set , d/p will remain the preferred set.

There has to be greater reward for using a CnD and no "blind on stealth " will just not cut it as this does not make it advantageous over d/p. There has to be more damage from the backstab itself or some other benefit. It harder to pull off and risky to try and should be better rewarded.

the number of vulnerabilty stacks applied and the durations of the same is a good place to start.

DeceiverX.8361:

Maugetarr.6823:

Deathblossom needs to have the same directional targeting that warrior’s GS #3 (whirlwind attack) has. I wouldn’t remove the bleeds till we get a true condition weapon mainhand (axe?).
Dancing Dagger needs a projectile speed increase (33%), have a 1.0 multiplier, and not bounce or cripple. When it hits it marks the target and gives you a rollover skill that’s instant cast and 2 initiative. The rollover shadowsteps you to the marked target, cripples it for 3 seconds, and removes a condition (no damage). This would let it be used in conjunction with CnD.
Cloak and Dagger needs to blind and be 5 initiative.
I think the above changes help D/D with positioning and gap closing without making the set OP or needing to nerf D/P, although Shadowshot could have its damage reduced.

I proposed a similar idea to distribute condi use into P/D better, take out the safety that is D/D condi evasion cheese to make it a real build, and bump the stickiness on D/D overall for power builds while resolving the core issues with Dancing Dagger’s low base damage and high scaling potential on power builds, as seen below:

DeceiverX.8361:

This is kind of where they were trying to push DT. The problem is that it can’t be 100% the way it is now, because then Death Blossom spam would be completely absurd dealing 3 bleed and 3 poison.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

Dagger Training Should apply poison to each auto attack at a 100% chance, and just the auto. Remove the bleed from Death Blossom, and put it on Dancing Dagger. Buff Dancing Dagger’s damage by 50% and remove the ability for it to hit the same target multiple times, and just have it hit the target and up to three nearby enemies.
Death Blossom should be reworked into a multi-hit evading lunge with better range than it has now, similar to Whirlwind Attack (Warrior GS3), at the cost of an additional initiative, giving the set more mobility and stickiness to compete with D/P and some evasion and disengage potential to keep it stylized in between S/D.

This improves power D/D through a better evade and more useful and consistent Dancing Dagger, and lets condi D/x get better and more reliable condition application while increasing the skill cap and not making it overwhelming with DD.

It was rejected in length by a D/D condi player because “death blossom spam is fun and requires skill to time” (lol), that “death blossom should not require more skill than an evade” (lol) and “combo finishers on multiple bounces from Dancing Dagger are very useful” (lol).

There’s going to be resistance as long as the class requires more than two buttons to play or requires some amount of intellect, even if such proposals lead to net buffs. In the case of what someone mentioned above, he proclaimed D/P required more skill than D/D, which is either completely untrue in the case of power, or just as spammy and bad-friendly in the case of conditions.

It irks me sPvP has gotten people so competitive and so upset about balance due to the massive imbalance of the game that we’re left with mostly FoTM players who aren’t willing to make balance compromises and reward skillful play while punishing bad play; instead they just want to be overpowered for free wins for no legitimate reason.

Yeah, I think you and I have been suggesting that change for quite a while and it’s always met with mixed responses.

I really like the targetting of DB as it is – I don’t even understand why peope have problems with that, sorry. The same happens with all other skills – they’re okayish to fine until someone complains and they are changed = become useless (best example: SB3).

ETA: I get the problem with the “spam” but it would probably wiser to tweak the traits which make that possible anyway. There have always been DB spamming thieves around but they gave up pretty soon. If that skill were changed it would become useless because clunky to me.

The targeting is fine as it is for the range the skill covers. If DB was given a 900 range evade, though, I’d prefer ground targeting; if you’ve ever played a GS warrior, Rush is very inconsistent and in many instances I wish I could have it be ground-targeted. It’s just to help solve pathing issues.

There have always been DB-spam players, but DB spam was easily-countered due to the pre/post-cast animations not giving evasion. Now that the evasion is seamless, it’s a very easy and quite a bit more effective, particularly now that DD offers more condition damage and more evasion uptime, too.

Hybrid sets don’t work when the potency doesn’t come from traits. I don’t know why people keep trying to push for weapons to have hybrid damage innately and no traits to support either build type. Additionally, D/D isn’t really a good hybrid. It has one skill to apply DoT conditions, and only applies one type. Its poison on AA is laughable, and Dagger Training and Potent Poison are just better ignored on D/D 3spam for Acrobatics for a very superior DD trait setup in regards to DoT ticks and evasion uptime.

Which is mostly the “fault” of daredevil – which has to be tweaked somewhere in the future as well – so I’d say let them have a bit of fun until then?

I made an edit above regarding targeting.

It’s unlikely Daredevil will be changed for condition builds. Unless a particular skill is stupidly OP and meta-defining, ANet doesn’t usually even think about making tweaks.

Death Blossom and Dancing Dagger just need major overhauls to keep the skill needed to play the set for both power and condi variants in check while rewarding players more for using the weapon. D/D condi does horrible damage but is border-line invuln, and D/D power has consistency issues and can’t escape or maintain presence on an escaping enemy. These are two huge problems which D/P and S/x are strictly better at doing.

No, sorry. I agree that the DB spam doesn’t require that much skill as it’s only a set pattern as to how to dodge and to spam – you don’t need to watch your opponent anymore.
But punishing the vanilla build once more isn’t the way to go.

ETA: DB works as an escaping tool for me – as a power D/D thief. (Not right now but before June it did).

ETA: Daredevil offers too many evades. If anet is serious about their game they will have to tweak it anyway. P/D has long been the most “powerful” build/set thief had, still people went away from it as it was boring. So, I don’t really see a point to change DB for now-

CnD needs to use less initiative when it misses. That single change effectively brings D/D in line with the more effective weapon sets.

As for D/P being the only viable build that is just flat wrong. The Staff is not only viable but performs well. IMO S/P is actually better than D/P as it has one of the biggest weapon attacks and its auto-attack has far more utility in addition to a condi removing teleport. Once you get past those weapon sets on the thief, everything is is second tier or worse.

Again, this is why I suggest re-working it so substantially. DB 3spam can’t keep its condition damage and offer such good evasion. It’s too safe of a build. The only arguments short of a rework are either then to nerf the evade (which I agree is a poor idea) or nerf the condition damage application (which doesn’t really do much for power and just removes the purpose of condi D/D).

P/D condi was the “best” only in WvW; it didn’t depend on crits and could run dire + SA (healing and dealing damage via conditions was extremely strong) while having a very slippery kit and a lot of torment access and stealth (before torment was nerfed). It wasn’t used so much in sPvP because the stealth is a liability for losing point control and necessary for Sneak Attack’s bleed stacking and healing, and Shadow Strike would force the thief off of a point allowing for decaps. D/D condi now offers similar DoT potential due to better bleed stacking, and its lack of stealth dependency and strictly better evasion lets it bunker points better.

I don’t think DB is substantial for disengage, and it’s definitely no good for engaging. It’s a nice evade, and when paired with effects like Shadowstep, it’s reasonable, however every single other weapon set except P/P has better disengage and engage potential, and even P/P is functional if not optimal at ~900. I’m not really sure how you claim that it was useful before June, when the evade was worse. It simply lacks the land speed. You can run faster than it moves you.

DeceiverX.8361:

The targeting is fine as it is for the range the skill covers. If DB was given a 900 range evade, though, I’d prefer ground targeting; if you’ve ever played a GS warrior, Rush is very inconsistent and in many instances I wish I could have it be ground-targeted. It’s just to help solve pathing issues.

There have always been DB-spam players, but DB spam was easily-countered due to the pre/post-cast animations not giving evasion. Now that the evasion is seamless, it’s a very easy and quite a bit more effective, particularly now that DD offers more condition damage and more evasion uptime, too.

Hybrid sets don’t work when the potency doesn’t come from traits. I don’t know why people keep trying to push for weapons to have hybrid damage innately and no traits to support either build type. Additionally, D/D isn’t really a good hybrid. It has one skill to apply DoT conditions, and only applies one type. Its poison on AA is laughable, and Dagger Training and Potent Poison are just better ignored on D/D 3spam for Acrobatics for a very superior DD trait setup in regards to DoT ticks and evasion uptime.

Db spam is easily countered. They do land and AOE stuns and immobs can easily shut down that spam. Once they start spamming and burn off that Ini they have few things in the build that will allow survival, As well the area that a DB effects is limited so smart players juts pull back slightly allowing the spammer to waste INI on DB and then reenter the fray.

Impaling lotus range is 600. DB range is 130. If you are standing in a DB spam you deserve what happens to you just as would a person standing in 100 blades or on a well.There is nothing OP about deathblossom in its current state other then your personal objection to the style. Leave it be.

Hyrbrid builds are also very doable and effective dependent on runes taken. This of course dependent on where you are talking. Due to choices of runes sigils in pvp they likely not as used there .

As to going DA for poisons with dagger training it does in fact work albeit the application rate a tad low. Dagger training is not key here. Potent poison is with its duration and extra potency which push the ticks up over your bleeds. This will also all but keep permanent poison on an enemy meaning less heals and weakness kicking in with regularity from lotus poison. You also shut down endurance regen . This means less dodges by the enemy and given endurance regen lowered universally already this more potent then prior to that change. I prefer this line over trickery for those reasons.

I would take trickery over da if I was to integrate interrupts and pressure strikes in the build or was using withdraw as heal over SOM and taking trickster. Dependent on build and style one can also do well taking DA DD trickster and forgoing Acro or even put SA in the build in a venom build.

When you compare p/d condition builds to d/d condition builds the number of traitlines that can be taken in the d/d build to make for an effective build is much greater. Your personal distaste for DB as used in a condition build hardly promotes diverse builds.

@Deceiver
I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

ETA: This build still only works because of daredevil – it didn’t work before and it wouldn’t with only vanilla lines even if the evade frame has been increased. As a P/D thief I could chose whatever lines I wanted to, only trickery was “mandatory” and SA was the logical second, although I probably could’ve taken any line instead as P/D was pretty indestructible when it came to fights – I didn’t really need the sustain but since I won 97%+ of fights anyway and only played it for a week I didn’t think much further about the build. And I actually didn’t really need stealth – I just needed to land my 3 and to bait them – that was how I spent my initative.

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

But I’m fine, why do I need any directional whatever that does take me thrice as long until the skill is activated – that is a nerf that ruins the skill.

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

But I’m fine, why do I need any directional whatever that does take me thrice as long until the skill is activated – that is a nerf that ruins the skill.

It takes the same amount of time. Enable fast cast with indicator.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

But I’m fine, why do I need any directional whatever that does take me thrice as long until the skill is activated – that is a nerf that ruins the skill.

It takes the same amount of time. Enable fast cast with indicator.

No, it takes a lot longer – warrior GS takes me a while to cast as well and they have a lot more sustain to take a hit.

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

But I’m fine, why do I need any directional whatever that does take me thrice as long until the skill is activated – that is a nerf that ruins the skill.

It takes the same amount of time. Enable fast cast with indicator.

No, it takes a lot longer – warrior GS takes me a while to cast as well and they have a lot more sustain to take a hit.

I guess it would be then, but I enjoy the flexibility for it being virtually as quick as a dodge and the hold and fire timing to whirl through someone attacking you.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

But I’m fine, why do I need any directional whatever that does take me thrice as long until the skill is activated – that is a nerf that ruins the skill.

It takes the same amount of time. Enable fast cast with indicator.

No, it takes a lot longer – warrior GS takes me a while to cast as well and they have a lot more sustain to take a hit.

I guess it would be then, but I enjoy the flexibility for it being virtually as quick as a dodge and the hold and fire timing to whirl through someone attacking you.

That’s nice, then play warrior and don’t assume that they way this skill works for warrior works for every class?

ETA: That came out harsher than I intended – just that I’m sooo tired of people talking about D/D as if they know it. Maybe 3% of players actually do (when it comes to pvp/wvw – I guess there are still a lot who know how to make the set work in PvE).

I’m pretty sure Maug and I have played D/D power long enough to constitute “knowing it.” Frankly, I’m pretty certain I have some of the most experience playing D/D power out of a majority of the thieves still playing GW2 and on the forums.

I still play it. I have played it every single time I’ve played my main thief since day 1 on launch. I play it in sPvP (despite not doing as well as I could because of it), in WvW, and PvE. I have not changed builds unless optimizing better for power, since, either.

And I still think directional DB would be a massive improvement. Our opinions on how the skill should activate may differ, and perhaps common ground could be reached (how I don’t know; move to/through target or forward if no target selected, similar to the first iteration of Death’s Charge?). That said, proclaiming that it would “ruin it” for power D/D makes no sense seeing as the skill would require the same amount of casting effort for condition players, even if it still was a primary bleed source.

As far as casting particularly slowly, that’s your problem. I get WWA executed faster on my warrior than I can finish a DB on my thief, and find it’s a straight-up better skill when you take the time to learn the timing on its setup and maintain your mouse accuracy by being a step ahead mentally and physically.

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

I might have missed the point – I just don’t want DB to be changed and all I can say is that it worked for me. Not to apply condis but to escape. If that skill were to changed to be directional = 2 clicks and even more positioning it would become useless to me as “activating it” would take too long – the beauty of it now is that I can easily reposition. So I do hope those who want a directional targeting aren’t doing it because they “would play D/D if only this was changed” (only to stick to D/P anyway while D/D is ruined for those who genuinly play it).
How I used DB: Opponent comes running to me, I use DB, he runs past down under me, I turn, CnD and BS. Worked every time but I didn’t use it in every fight – DB is a very situational skill but still not useless.

That’s the idea of making it ground targeted like whirlwind attack. It raises the skill floor without nerfing the skill and leaves it situationally useful for power with the evade and reposition.

Great but with that you would ruin it for power D/D – thank you =)

ETA: And btw it wouldn’t add more skill but annoyance to the game play.

The directable slide adds utility allowing you to reposition better. It doesn’t nerf power D/D.

But I’m fine, why do I need any directional whatever that does take me thrice as long until the skill is activated – that is a nerf that ruins the skill.

It takes the same amount of time. Enable fast cast with indicator.

No, it takes a lot longer – warrior GS takes me a while to cast as well and they have a lot more sustain to take a hit.

I guess it would be then, but I enjoy the flexibility for it being virtually as quick as a dodge and the hold and fire timing to whirl through someone attacking you.

That’s nice, then play warrior and don’t assume that they way this skill works for warrior works for every class?

ETA: That came out harsher than I intended – just that I’m sooo tired of people talking about D/D as if they know it. Maybe 3% of players actually do (when it comes to pvp/wvw – I guess there are still a lot who know how to make the set work in PvE).

Well, I was playing D/D mainly the year (and longer) before the nerf to FG with a 25/0/0/15/30 build since it could cover up the shortcomings of the set. With every class getting a moderate boost, even Daredevil can’t cover it up with the 3 full traitlines now. I just want D/D to get some utility back and having that directional evade would do that (imo) along with improvements to the the other OH dagger skills.

In your opinion, yes, but you haven’t played that set for 2 years – what is working for a warrior doesn’t have to work for thief. And I’m certain it wouldn’t work for me.
It would be cool to buff D/D but a directional casting skill wouldn’t help at all.

In your opinion it wouldn’t help.

In mine it would.

So then, pre-adjustment Death’s Charge, then? I think of this as a distinctive nerf versus ground-targeting, but if moving the camera in its entirety is faster than moving the cursor, sure.

Just so long as I can actually use this skill to preferred angles.