Guild Wars 2

Just want to share my experience as a thief player. It’s a bit long since I like to write out my thought process. If there’s anything I missed feel free to add as I am still willing to learn new things.
I want to see what your opinions between these two weapon specs while running these traits (using D/D Yishis’ build) on D/P. However, I use infusion of shadows instead of cloaked in shadows. First off, I’m a WvW player and I have been playing with D/D SB for a while and found it especially powerful against large groups and inexperience players. However, when encountering skilled players I find D/D much harder to win since they can easily dodge my CnD by watching the animation. Even if I land the CnD they know that I have a 4 second window to land a backstab and would either dodge or distance themselves. So I feel that D/DSB spec is too predictable while D/P+SB offers more deceptive play.

D/P provides:
-More utility and mobility
-Reliable stealth
-Chasing to secure kills
-AoE blinds
-Less stealth time(depends)
-Slightly less damage(No vuln. stacks from CnD)
-No chain stealth
-High initiative cost(Can be managed)

When I play D/P you have about 3 ways to initiate. There’s probably more, but I use these 3.
**BP->steal->AA->HS->backstab
This initiation is useful when fighting against players who doesn’t step out of the BP field. I can get a full rotation of AA + 2/3 AA before I HS in and backstab for full damage.

**ShS->AA->BP->AA->HS->backstab
When I ShS I wait till the blind breaks or when my initiative is full before I use BP. I make sure I’m up close to BP so I can get a few AA before the blind breaks. It’s best if the initiative is full when you HS in to backstab since you will deal more damage thanks to the first strike minor trait.

**The most common engage: BP->1-3 HS in BP field->backstab
This is straight-forward engagement, however I don’t use it much since I can dish out more damage using the above two initiation.

Play-style:
Now here comes the deceptive play I use either during the initiation or throughout the battle. When you BP(full initiative) you can decide to HS 1 to 4 times. The 4th HS is rare, but I manage to pull it off sometimes thanks to infiltrator’s signet. Also each HS BP combo is 2 sec on stealth. Now you’re probably asking yourself that this is a ridiculous waste on initiative. Well yes, however you gain 8 sec. of stealth and during that time I will wait till stealth is almost up before backstabbing follow up by AA or dodge. After the dec. 10 patch I get most of my inititave back(missing about 3). I similar results from BP1HS, 2HS, or 3HS combo. The deception comes from how many times you decide to use the HS+BP combo. This will leave your enemies clueless on your backstab since you can attack from the end of the 2sec, 4sec, 6sec or 8sec window of stealth. Keep in mind that my last HS will be towards the enemy.

When they start to run just use #2 and #3 to close the gap. Don’t use BP+HS combo as it would drain your initiative and will leave you unable to down them or chase. Only BP+HS when they turn around and fight or if you can kill them. What I like about this is that I can kill warriors(only concentrating on escaping) with no problem with their high mobility GS+ Bulls Charge. If they Bull Charge I use SS for max range predicting where BC ends and AA. When they use their GS 3 and 5 I’ll use HS+ShS, infiltrator’s signet, or HS+steal to close the gap.

Management:
For this build to work you must be wary of your initiative at all times. You need to make every attack count because spamming your initiatives spells death. Low initiative= open to attack or unable to disengage. Most of the time when I BP I’ll wait till full initiative to engage again. This is a safer option since I will still have initiative left-over to disengage if I have to. You can BP with 3/4 of your initiative however when you have the reveal buff you have to play defensively since you probably won’t have enough initiative to perform another BP+HS combo.

-#2 to ONLY gap close or when enemy is under 25% health
-#3 usually use this when they’re health is about 40% then I HS HS HS…
-#4 use it when you see spell animation from the enemies. i still need to practice on this since I’m still not quick enough to react.
-#5 our best defense and offensive ability

Disengage:
You can use your utility skills for this however what if they’re on CD. For D/P spec you have the option of BP+1-3HS or SB 5 to disengage which I find much more reliable then D/D+SB spec. I’ll BP+3HS and walk the opposite direction and wait for initiative to regen to HS away. I’ll use SB if I know I can tele up on a cliff. For D/D+SB you most like HS away without stealth or use SB 5 to tele away. If you’re fighting a warrior with they’re high mobility then all I can say is good luck getting away.

Counters:
Distance yourself where the BP is being place.
-This can be tricky at times since the thief can close the gap easily with SS, infiltrator’s signet and steal while stealth-ed. However, I don’t know any thief would blow their SS, infiltrator’s signet, and steal at the same time. If they do then that thief is as good as dead if he gets CC’d. Also you can place traps, marks, or AoE however use it sparingly.
*Interrupt they’re BP+HS combo by standing close to their BP
-If they HS towards you run directly in the line of the HS in front of the BP(maybe dodge just in case if they try a quick backstab) and AA.
-Some thieves love to BP and HS at the last second. This isn’t too hard to counter since you would know where the thief is at. They are right in front of you and going to walk behind for backstab. Give about .5-1 second before you dodge or use AoE and CC around you.

Let me know what you guys think.

D/p is superior to d/d. At least for solo Roaming and especially Vs warriors.
In groups i prefer d/d cuz it Hits harder, faster and ppl will focus visible players anyway (war, guard, Ranger etc).
Also, d/p has it hard to kill pu mes, d/d does it better.
At least this is my opinion

Generally speaking D/P counters all Thief build pretty hard that rely on Cloak and Dagger. Those constant Blinds break any effective use of Cloak and Dagger.

It’s probably overall more effective than D/D too although the difference isn’t as big as it was before December 10th. Now that D/D can use Cloaked in Shadows as well both have access to frequent Blinds.

Both can do quite well with D/D emphasizing damage and D/P emphasizing mobility and Blinds.

Personally I like the D/D play-style more as D/P always send me into a rage-fit when I accidentally Heartseeker into a critter, thus breaking my Stealth.

I just can’t be doing with d/p. I can’t stand not having c+d access.

Or having the c+d+steal combo available, to chain a huge backstab off of it.

D/p thieves do give me some hassle, but due to my damage being so huge, it becomes a reactionary game, as if they put one foot wrong i can take them from 100-0 in one combo.

You can swap weapons between fights, D/D+D/P <> D/D+Sb. Might be surprising for an opponent when you switch from D/D to D/P or vv.

phaeris.7604:

D/p thieves do give me some hassle, but due to my damage being so huge, it becomes a reactionary game, as if they put one foot wrong i can take them from 100-0 in one combo.

I have the same experience when it comes to battling D/P thieves as a D/D thief. While they are considerably more frustrating to fight (as they should be), I know how to counter them and even Cloak and Dagger them while they’re in stealth (auto-attack to confirm location and quickly CnD into Backstab for a quick down).

Its far more challenging, but also far more rewarding, to fight a D/P Thief as a D/D thief. Outside of that, D/D handles 1vsX exceptionally well.

are 2 days i’m asking why i shouldn t use D/P instead of my D/D…. i cannot win a fight right now.. perma blind takes down my C&D.. try to improve my skills but is like impossible mission.. some tips??

Ok.

The key is to not fight in the blinding powder. They get about 4 secs on stealth if they heartseeker out. They will advance towards you and try and get to the back, so the key is to keep swinging auto and tehn land a c+d off them whilst they are in stealth.

Then they will come out of stealth, at this point you can launch into a steal+mug+c+d+backstab combo. With my build, if I connect they die. Or they’ll drop another blinding field and try to do the same. Then you do the same, c+d off them whilst they’re in stealth or c+d off an object/mob to stealth yourself.

Since im running 30,30,10,0,0 i’ve had far less trouble with d/p thieves. They were actually more of an issue when I ran 0,30,30,10,0 as I just didn’t have the burst. Now with buffs and stuff up I have an attack power of 4k+ when I unload, and that’s enough to oneshot any thief as a rule.

Generally when fighting another thief I just drop BP switch to SB and burn them out. As far as getting a one shot combo it depends on the stats the thief you are fighting if the have shadow step and if they saw you coming. Most D/P thieves rely on stealth to the point you shouldn’t have issue because they can’t’t manage their imitative like you. IMHO I think it is just easiest to counter most thieves by taking the fight out of melee.

Personally if your’e roaming D/P + SB just has more utility than D/D. It depends on your playstyle but in many situations /p is just as useful as it gets. D/D has the capability to keep the pressure up vs is slow target but D/P is our best weapon set for staying on target. D/D is a weapon set that lacks in utility. D/P is defensive and offensive simultaneously.

Beating a D/P thief as D/D is really down to how each thief built and how well you know it.

I say the utility is enough to beat a D/D. Usually when i fight other thieves I make sure I have the best opener or I’ll get one-shotted. To have to best opener is the element of a surprise attack from stealth and I believe D/P can achieve this with more success than D/D. I use BP+3HS combo→steal and backstab now the D/D thief would usually heal at this point with Shadow Refuge or Hide in Shadows. If the thief uses Hide in Shadows I would pop headshot and HS for the kill.

I ran 10/30/30/0/0 D/P+S/P before Dec 10th. I’m surprised at how many thieves still run infusion of shadow now. After Dec 10th I changed Infusion of Shadow to Shadow Protector for close to permanent regeneration. Sometimes I just go with 20 in SA with that trait and move the other 10 to Deadly Arts for an extra 100 power and 5% damage with daggers.

The need for infusion of shadow was for having enough initiative to safely engage after stealth comboing to sneak up, and to handle the cost of frequent black powder+heartseekers during combat. It’s not needed now with the increased initiative regen. It is infact an increase despite the nerf to 15 critical strikes when you factor in the time spent in stealth, not landing critical hits.

“But what about the increased stealth duration from those extra stealth combos?” You don’t actually need 3 or 4 heart seekers in black powder for sneaking up to a target. 2 is enough. The time spent moving about to get the third and fourth costs 50%+ of the stealth time gained. If you use black powder while stepping backward, you’ll be on the edge of the field. Tilt the camera down, heart seeker once without going very far, raise the camera, heart seeker a second time this time getting the full leap for a head start in the direction you want to go. Costs less initiative, less time, less risk of hitting something and losing stealth, and allows you to take near permanent regeneration instead of regain 2 initiative which becomes redundant with this approach. The only times I would do it differently is when I need to stay in stealth longer – in which case I would heart seeker once, and delay slightly before executing two more to finish just as the field expires – or to deceive someone into thinking I am going in a particular direction or toward a particular target. Furthermore, if you find you are a tad short for time on the sneak up you can heart seeker while on the move. It costs the same as it would were you to use it in the field, and you travel further because were you to execute it in the field it would have had to be in the opposite direction.

Nice comparison. You could also put under D/P, the ability to stealth without a target so you can sneak up without burning any utilities. That is a significant benefit.

I take 2 initiative gain from infusion of shadow since gives you more options to work with (disengage or damage) plus you’ll inflict more damage when you have initiative above 6.

If I use BP+2HS and HS to the enemy I’ll have initiative less than 6 which is 10% less damage.

i run shadow embrace, cloacked in the shadow and shadow rejuvenation.. conditions are too OP

dustiny.1657:

I take 2 initiative gain from infusion of shadow since gives you more options to work with (disengage or damage) plus you’ll inflict more damage when you have initiative above 6.

If I use BP+2HS and HS to the enemy I’ll have initiative less than 6 which is 10% less damage.

I don’t have any problem with my initiative being too low =\. To each their own though. It was only something to consider =P.

@Impact

I always welcome constructive advice from players since it will help advance my play-style as a thief. I’m just expanding on what I said and how I go about my play-style. =)

Impact.2780 i will try Shadow Protector, never test actually if i could manage not having Infusion of Shadow.

Thanks all for the feed back, please keep posting more like this is very interesting.

Easy.

D/P for roaming
D/D for zerging

One is better and more suited for smaller scale encounters where you focus on a few targets, the latter better in mass battles due to more players to pull off CnD